INTP Blues

[Seraph]

Don't get me wrong. I love being an INTP...but I feel like I'm always the "outsider" everywhere I go.

When there's a group of people around me, no one ever tries to talk to me. If I say something, it's ignored, and the extroverts continue talking to one another. I feel like everything I say and do is stupid and embarrassing.

I'm in ROTC, which requires a lot of drilling...which means you need to march in unison and execute saber movements in unison. My mind wanders at all times, so "thinking in the moment" is very tough. Often I'll make several mistakes without realizing it. This is embarrassing considering I'm a fourth-year cadet. To be honest, I have no clue why I'm still in the program.

I'm 17 and I still don't have my driver's license. On top of being afraid of driving, my mind also wants to wander in the car. Riding has always been kind of a special haven of mine where I can sit back and think. But being behind the wheel means no more of that! Four days ago I drove my dad's car into my neighbor's fence while practicing...I don't think I'll ever learn.

Oh well, that's all I've got to say. I wish I had just one good friend, one person to talk to. I thought I did, but she's friends with so many people, I feel like I'm one in a million.

[Arioch]

:whistle: Cause IIIII got those Architect Blues :whistle:

You know one of the problems might be that everyone has already formed their little groups. If one wants friends (using the word loosely) then the best oppertunity is when there is a large group of .... subjects available which don't know eachother. Once they've already formed into groups it's somewhat harder.

You could perfect some small talk. You'll get some conversation then... of doubtful quality but conversation nonetheless. Outwardly confidence might help

Still I have the feeling you just wanted to get it all out. Your right about having one good friend.. quite precious.

[Jezebel]

from another thread...


so i was walking back to work (summer job) from lunch one day, a street that i had walked numerous times before, lost in thought. suddenly, the world comes rushing back to me and i become completely confused and disoriented. north had become east, east had become south and so on. the world in my mind had shifted 90 degrees from the actual world. i knew what street i was on and i knew where i was, but it didn't make any sense at all for some strange reason. it took me a full 30 seconds to realign my world with the actual world and during the whole process all i could think about was "i know that this street i'm on leads to my building, i know that north is that way. why does it feel as though i am on a different street even though i can see the street sign? why does north feel like it is that way instead?"

I've had experiences that I could describe similarly. It has happened while walking, but it mostly happens while I'm driving. When I come out of it I'm disoriented and confused. I don't recognize my surroundings right away and wonder if I've passed my turn, even in familiar surroundings. It happened to me today, but luckily this isn't a daily thing, because it scares me when I do that in a vehicle.

Yeah, my mind wanders when I drive a lot too. Loud music usually helps me a little bit, as well as taking frequent breaks on longer drives if I'm alone. I didn't get my license until after my first year of college. I don't think not having it at 17 is a big deal.

[Division56]

*wonders why in god's name an intp would join the ROTC*

[file cabinet]

*wonders why in god's name an intp would join the ROTC*

pressure from parents? friends of his had already joined? curiousity?

[Claverhouse]

I'm guessing the ROTC is some sort of Officer Training Cadets for school ? Frankly, I'd have loved it. At least back in the days before I was born, when you were given a gun and had to do fieldcraft and night ambushes etc..

And probably not in the Southern states of the USA where, to be unkind, those Military Schools seem a little bit odd. At least in films: perhaps they're sweet-natured and easy-going in reality.



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[file cabinet]

I'm guessing the ROTC is some sort of Officer Training Cadets for school ? Frankly, I'd have loved it. At least back in the days before I was born, when you were given a gun and had to do fieldcraft and night ambushes etc..

And probably not in the Southern states of the USA where, to be unkind, those Military Schools seem a little bit odd. At least in films: perhaps they're sweet-natured and easy-going in reality.



Claverhouse :ph34r:

the south has militias. people with pickup trucks that have gun racks. people who dress in camo-gear to protect their country.. it's like the KKK except more 'patriotic' -- I'm sure someone else has some insight on this.

[cjs55]

I have never not felt like this, even on this board =/

[booyalab]

I'm guessing the ROTC is some sort of Officer Training Cadets for school ? Frankly, I'd have loved it. At least back in the days before I was born, when you were given a gun and had to do fieldcraft and night ambushes etc..

And probably not in the Southern states of the USA where, to be unkind, those Military Schools seem a little bit odd. At least in films: perhaps they're sweet-natured and easy-going in reality.



Claverhouse :ph34r:

The army is actually a daycare compared to the marines. I don't think the location of the school has much to do with the intensity of the training. Hollywood just likes army generals with southern accents, since the south has a strong military tradition.

[booyalab]

As far as your question goes, Seraph, INTPs are socially dependent on their context. So if you find it hard to make friends it's probably because you shouldn't be making friends with these people anyways, because of incompatibility or lack of common interests etc. Find some organization or club whose purpose is something you enjoy, like chess club or whatever. If you have trouble making friends with people who you know share at least one of your strong interests, it's probably social anxiety in which case you can seek medical attention. Also, remember not to let the burden fall on everyone else to initiate conversation. If you want people to be interested in you , it's usually a good idea to show at least some interest in them too.

[s]

The Militia and The KKK are actually quite strong up north. Racism is hardly only in the south, gentleman.

FC: http://www.minnesotamilitia.8k.com/

I have had several friends attend military academies in the South and (according to them) they live up to what you may have heard.

Why join ROTC, Div? Men in uniforms and communal showers. ;)

[file cabinet]

The Militia and The KKK are actually quite strong up north. Racism is hardly only in the south, gentleman.

FC: http://www.minnesotamilitia.8k.com/


creepy but I'm not surprised...

[CeSoirNoir]

I always feel like an outsider usually, but since I know that this is because I'm an INTP, it helps me understand why I feel this way...and I can accept that it is okay. And I didnt get my drivers license till I was 18 years old, so don't feel so badly...

[franzgold]

I'm 17 and I still don't have my driver's license. On top of being afraid of driving, my mind also wants to wander in the car. Riding has always been kind of a special haven of mine where I can sit back and think. But being behind the wheel means no more of that! Four days ago I drove my dad's car into my neighbor's fence while practicing...I don't think I'll ever learn.

I didn't bother getting my license until I was 18, I don't think it's terribly unusual. Just wait a couple of years until you have the driving reflexes down, then you can kick back and think while driving.

[file cabinet]

I also did not get my drivers license til I was 18.

[flan2dave]

Oh well, that's all I've got to say. I wish I had just one good friend, one person to talk to. I thought I did, but she's friends with so many people, I feel like I'm one in a million.

Maybe out of all her friends, she considers you unlike any other?

[Slider]

try drinking vodka when you drive, it'll help counteract your nervous disposition.

[Claverhouse]

Wouldn't you recommend taking Speed with that, to enhance your speed ?


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Slider]

not for her - that could dangerous man . . . I do highly recommend it for you though.

[Birdsnest]

:nerd:
No, I agree, but whether its INTP or just introversion in general, not being included is the pits. Its like you do want to be included, but you don't want the hassel of the commitment. Its like you know you really are better off without their games, but once in a while it wouldn't hurt to be included too.

We need to do a documentary and put it on tv to show extroverts how to treat us right. Because I think most of society is more cold than any T could be. The INTP's here give each other so much space to be who they are, I love that. And T's know how to be polite and not blow things out of proportion with each other like most other types.

But I completely relate to the blues of not really wanting to mix most of humanity, yet, feeling like on occasion it wouldn't hurt if they recognized you existed, or invited you to their party so you could at least say no thanks. Is that part of that Avoidant Personality Disorder catch 22?

[Seraph]

*wonders why in god's name an intp would join the ROTC*

Oh man, I don't knowwwww! I guess I did it for a free PE credit. Now the fun has really worn out, and I do want to leave...but I can't. My position is too important, and it would be glaringly difficult to replace me.

[Werdna]

I'm always an outsider as well but most of the time I don't feel like it. I've simply gotten so used to it. Usually I have one friend and a few other people who at least accept me.
I don't have a license, and I'm 20. I tried getting one for a while, but I just kept thinking that sooner or later I'm going to have an accident because I can't concentrate on driving, my mind keeps wandering. One day when I have time I'll deal with it.

[Claverhouse]

*wonders why in god's name an intp would join the ROTC*

Oh man, I don't knowwwww! I guess I did it for a free PE credit. Now the fun has really worn out, and I do want to leave...but I can't. My position is too important, and it would be glaringly difficult to replace me.

Golly, you love initialisms in the USA, don't you ? Still, at least they're not twee acronyms. If PE means Physical Education as it does here, then you were very sensible. No good ever came from exercise. Military manoevres though, very beneficial. Plus, even in free America, it's the only legal way to use some serious kit.



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Groty]

I'm guessing the ROTC is some sort of Officer Training Cadets for school ? Frankly, I'd have loved it. At least back in the days before I was born, when you were given a gun and had to do fieldcraft and night ambushes etc..

And probably not in the Southern states of the USA where, to be unkind, those Military Schools seem a little bit odd. At least in films: perhaps they're sweet-natured and easy-going in reality.



Claverhouse :ph34r:

The army is actually a daycare compared to the marines. I don't think the location of the school has much to do with the intensity of the training. Hollywood just likes army generals with southern accents, since the south has a strong military tradition.


Never came across Militia's or the KKK in the south. Moving down there from Philly, I was surprised and happy to find the stigma to be quite opposite of what most people think. A country boy is a country boy, regardless of the color of their skin.

VMI, the Citadel, and West Point pride themselves in creating Gentleman Officers. More time is spent teaching ethics, morality,history and respect than gun handling.

Don't watch T.A.P.S. ever again.

Oh yeah! SAVE THE MALES!

[Groty]

*wonders why in god's name an intp would join the ROTC*

Oh man, I don't knowwwww! I guess I did it for a free PE credit. Now the fun has really worn out, and I do want to leave...but I can't. My position is too important, and it would be glaringly difficult to replace me.

Unless you are in it because you enjoy the responsibility, some kind of organizational position I suppose, get out.

It would be thier problem to fill your responsibilities, you don't have to worry about it.

[Seraph]

I might bail out next semester when it won't hurt my schedule too badly. I already have the requirement for PE credits, and I think getting into Creative Writing would be light years more fun.


Golly, you love initialisms in the USA, don't you ? Still, at least they're not twee acronyms. If PE means Physical Education as it does here, then you were very sensible. No good ever came from exercise. Military manoevres though, very beneficial. Plus, even in free America, it's the only legal way to use some serious kit.

Yeah yeah yeah, I know. Having an army-related high school program makes America look a little militaristic. If it means anything, ROTC's been around since 1916.

But hey...If I weren't five lbs. underweight, then I might have gone into PE instead. But I was, so I didn't.

[hemanthraz]

oh brother, birdsnest took the words out o my mouth. I feel like im left out of my group too, but sometimes when they do include me i feel bored really fast.Its not like i dont like them, but extended periods of contact wears me out and i start thinking, what am i doing here with "these" people?
The trick i do these days is to go along for the small time activities. so my loneliness is reduced somewhat, while leaving them free to do what they want
[talk incessantly, obsess about their girlfriends etc]
interestingly even females i like, bring about this feeling of detachment.Dont know what to do about that !!

[PsiKik]

I'm 17 and I still don't have my driver's license.

I didn't bother getting my license until I was 18, I don't think it's terribly unusual. Just wait a couple of years until you have the driving reflexes down, then you can kick back and think while driving.

Im 34 and still dont have a licence! Though I am getting it next month.

[PsiKik]

We need to do a documentary and put it on tv to show extroverts how to treat us right. Because I think most of society is more cold than any T could be. The INTP's here give each other so much space to be who they are, I love that. And T's know how to be polite and not blow things out of proportion with each other like most other types.


I am thinking we need to put together some kind of INTP survival FAQ,
titled something like 'INTP survival 101' for INTP's by INTP's.
It would consist of questions about issues that we find difficult and depressing along with answers
that others have found usefull.
The most obvious problems are social exclusion, job dis/satisfaction, depression etc.
Any ideas?

[Avengardh]

I've learned to act like them, so, no.

But in the end it doesn't really matter to me, I know the people that need to include me, will.

[Misty_Kye]

*wonders why in god's name an intp would join the ROTC*

Oh man, I don't knowwwww! I guess I did it for a free PE credit. Now the fun has really worn out, and I do want to leave...but I can't. My position is too important, and it would be glaringly difficult to replace me.

Depending on the time that you have left, you could tell them that you are leaving and train someone to take your place. That way they will be prepared and you don't have to feel like you're letting them down.

[Seraph]

I'm 17 and I still don't have my driver's license.

I didn't bother getting my license until I was 18, I don't think it's terribly unusual. Just wait a couple of years until you have the driving reflexes down, then you can kick back and think while driving.

Im 34 and still dont have a licence! Though I am getting it next month.

I'm beginning to think this is an INTP problem. That actually makes me feel a little bit better about it.

[sbw]

if the vodka-speed cocktail has you driving at unsafe speeds, a little weed is likely to calm you down...

Scott

[sbw]

Michigan has a militia too (I live in florida now, and I've not seen any militias, just an informal "army" of rednecks, w/ cowboy hats, large belt buckles, flannel, and rebel-flag bumper stickers--they do seem to unconsciously be dressed in uniform, though (ha ha ha))...also, rednecks HATE me, as a rule; anyone else run into this?

Scott

[Tranzors]

You feel like an outsider because there are not many INTPs out there. Either that or you're ugly.

[lauriep]

Michigan has a militia too (I live in florida now, and I've not seen any militias, just an informal "army" of rednecks, w/ cowboy hats, large belt buckles, flannel, and rebel-flag bumper stickers--they do seem to unconsciously be dressed in uniform, though (ha ha ha))...also, rednecks HATE me, as a rule; anyone else run into this?

Scott

I work with a bunch of rednecks. I don't think they really hate me as much as just see me as an outsider. But then again, they don't seem too fond of outsiders.

[shaytana]

I'm 17 and I still don't have my driver's license.

I didn't bother getting my license until I was 18, I don't think it's terribly unusual. Just wait a couple of years until you have the driving reflexes down, then you can kick back and think while driving.

Im 34 and still dont have a licence! Though I am getting it next month.

I'm beginning to think this is an INTP problem. That actually makes me feel a little bit better about it.

I'm 28 and just got my license.

[Spartan26]

I'm 17 and I still don't have my driver's license.

I didn't bother getting my license until I was 18, I don't think it's terribly unusual. Just wait a couple of years until you have the driving reflexes down, then you can kick back and think while driving.

Im 34 and still dont have a licence! Though I am getting it next month.

I'm beginning to think this is an INTP problem. That actually makes me feel a little bit better about it.

I'm 28 and just got my license.
My goodness, what did you people do? How did you get around? How does one survive??? Mass transit in LA pretty much sucks. Everybody drives everywhere. Hence the old Missing Persons song, "Nobody Walks in LA"

Where I grew up, you had to have your learner's permit for 90 days before you could get your license. Well, when my dad took me to take the test, we didn't realize that the office closed early on Fridays so I had to wait until Monday to take my test. No big deal at the time. Not until my 16th birthday came and I had to wait TWO MORE WHOLE DAYS to be set free! I thought I was going to die. I knew some people whose parents would take them in for their driver's test in the morning and then write a note after they were late for school.

Any time my car's sick I feel like God's punishing me. I had a girlfriend in high school who was a year ahead of me and never had her license. I have to say she was pretty cool about everything. Sometimes people who don't drive have no idea what a pain in the but it can be to get around. Like something so small as flight reservations. If you don't drive you wouldn't think to try to change your arrival time from 5 PM on a Friday because it'll be pure hell for someone to get there and back. I mean you'd have to help someone move to pay that favor back.

What I guess is weird is that I can be holed up for a week but as soon as I don't have the option to leave I feel like I'm in county lock up.

[Seraph]

You feel like an outsider because there are not many INTPs out there. Either that or you're ugly.

Ugly? No, I think I'm pretty average...Well, see for yourself...

http://home.1asphost.com/ChromeFox/bri1.jpg

Okay, I quit ROTC yesterday (pretty dramatically too, I might add). The SAI (adult leader) is nothing but a stubborn, selfish, egotistical fool. My one regret is I didn't free myself from his dictatorlike control earlier.

[heeroyuy]

I feel like an outsider alot, all the time in fact, even among friends. It usually doesn't bother me too much, because I don't care as much, but sometimes I do. My biggest thing is that I like talking about theories, ideas, etc because it helps to develop them. The only people I can find to talk to locally either want to debate my use of the word "too" within that context, or have an argument over french accent marks and which is cooler. Everyone else shrugs me off as totally having no worth because of my ideas and interests. It happens heh.

I have a single friend who, while she doesn't always understand or enjoy my ideas etc, she is willing to listen. I learned how devoted she was to me once in a time of trouble. We had been close for awhile, but at the time it felt like she was kind of moving away from me, much like you dsecribe. You never know though. You never know how close someone is to you, until someone truly comes in between you and you see the results.

As to driving, I'm almost 17 and I don't have mine yet, so hey? That's why you make people not quite like you, but owe you favors. "Hey scott, yea, wanna give me a ride here?" etc.

[/rant]

[sbw]

lauriep, I work with a bunch of mexicans (rather than rednecks). As long as you speak even a little spanglish (and my mexican-slang version of actual spanish is coming along nicely), they're much more friendly and inclusive than rednecks.

Scott

[Lucas]

I'm 17 and I still don't have my driver's license.

I didn't bother getting my license until I was 18, I don't think it's terribly unusual. Just wait a couple of years until you have the driving reflexes down, then you can kick back and think while driving.

Im 34 and still dont have a licence! Though I am getting it next month.

I'm beginning to think this is an INTP problem. That actually makes me feel a little bit better about it.


I got my drivers license when I was 14! :D
I spent a lot of time in South Dakota growing up, where you used to be able to drive at 14. You just couldn't drive after 8:00pm until you were 16. I think they raised it to 15 in the last few years though.

[jimkopelli]

I was a late one too... didn't get mine until late 17, after being hounded for years... still don't have full license, though, just permit.

[BritainOphira]

I have my permit, and I even managed to get it relatively soon after my sixteenth birthday (I had to wait a week or so until one of my parents could schedule the hours off of work to take me). I was planning on getting my license as soon as possible (as in the end of last July/early August), but because of my mother's inability to parallel park and her resistance to letting my father teach me (I don't even know why he isn't allowed...), I never managed it.
Plus last spring my eyesight went from a bad, but livable, 20/50 to 20/100, so I was put on driving probation by my parents until I could get new glasses. When I finally got the privilege to drive back I was doing fine until I got sick and was put on probation again, where I currently reside until the new year, when I *might* be allowed to try to get my license.

[songbird36]

That's an interesting quote you have on your profile Ophira. What does it mean - what context is it in?

(I'm an N so I don't have to follow the discussion about cars and licensing do I)?

[xavierd]

I didn't get my license until I was almost 18, not until I had a girlfriend who did not live in walking distance. I just never really needed a car until then, but that seems to be par for the course with me and the external world. Stuff like that just never crosses my mind until its staring me in the face screaming, "Hey! Don't you think you should take care of this!"
But I think this is just part of the INTPs lack of sensitivity to the outside world, if it isn't a pressing matter, an inconvenience, etc. it will go unnoticed.

[lauriep]

Got my license when I was 17, got my first ticket a week later.

[INTrPosr]

*wonders why in god's name an intp would join the ROTC*

ME TOO!!!! Moreso, I don't think that I put too much interest in whether I could make friends in high school. Yes, I did have a few that I called friend, but I was never too concerned what they were doing when I was not around.

[INTrPosr]

I'm 17 and I still don't have my driver's license.

I didn't bother getting my license until I was 18, I don't think it's terribly unusual. Just wait a couple of years until you have the driving reflexes down, then you can kick back and think while driving.

Im 34 and still dont have a licence! Though I am getting it next month.

I'm beginning to think this is an INTP problem. That actually makes me feel a little bit better about it.


I got my drivers license when I was 14! :D
I spent a lot of time in South Dakota growing up, where you used to be able to drive at 14. You just couldn't drive after 8:00pm until you were 16. I think they raised it to 15 in the last few years though.

Whew!! I was about to become worried here. I grew up in rural Oklahoma and would not have been able to get around without driving myself. I began driving at 14, got my permit on my 15th birthday and license on my 16th. I would not have survived without one. Sounds like the typical chameleon tendencies that INTPs are known to have.

[BritainOphira]

That's an interesting quote you have on your profile Ophira. What does it mean - what context is it in?

(I'm an N so I don't have to follow the discussion about cars and licensing do I)?

(Sorry, just noticed this.) If you are talking about my signature, it's a quote from the poem "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock" by T.S. Eliot, which is one of my favorite poems. As far as the context of the quote, I'm not really sure that I can explain it and make any sort of sense. The first time I read it, it just jumped out at me, and I was left pointing and going, "Oh!" Why I was left going "Oh!" I really can't explain in words, but yeah...

Anyway, if you want to read the whole poem, it's here (http://www.bartleby.com/198/1.html).

[Claverhouse]

For those of us outside America, what's a permit ? D'you just drive with it or something with restrictions of some kind ?

In GB you just get a license: lots of categories on it for different vehicles, but for cars the main difference is only the inferior automatic version which restricts you to autos or the manual type which allows you to use both manual & auto. Most cars seem manual over here.

And I think you have to be 17.


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[songbird36]

Thanks Ophira.

I write a lot of poetry myself so I am quite intrigued by your TS Eliot extract.
I'll go and read the rest of it!

[int]

For those of us outside America, what's a permit ? D'you just drive with it or something with restrictions of some kind ?



A permit allows you to drive with another licensed driver as a passenger. You cannot drive solo until you get your license. I think there's sometimes a minimum age the licensed passenger has to be as well.