translation

[adamaw11]

Something I've wondered about the whole bible thing, is how accurate the translation between languages could have been.

The "chinese wispers" effect is significant enough even when things are in the same language and passed from one person to another. So that effect, combined with translation between languages, would make me think that the original intended meaning of many statements could be quite distorted.
As a vague example, what if "he ascended to heaven" actually meant something like "he climbed up a tree"


To introduce myself to this part of the forum, I'm pretty much an agnostic, but maybe not quite, because I do believe in a few vaguely spiritual things, from my own theories and philosophising and stuff.

[jimkopelli]

I remember something about the passage about putting a camel through the eye of a needle wasn't really meant to mean a whole camel, but just a camel hair... but in this case, I think, the gaff improves the passage and makes it ridiculous enough to remember and go into common useage.

[Claverhouse]

I remember something about the passage about putting a camel through the eye of a needle wasn't really meant to mean a whole camel, but just a camel hair... but in this case, I think, the gaff improves the passage and makes it ridiculous enough to remember and go into common useage.

I think the 'Eye of the Needle' was a famed [ then ] narrow gate/passage in Jerusalem, which no doubt was crowded with haggling buyers & sellers, idlers and deliverymen etc.; this has been adduced as an example of the Christ's not very evident sense of humour. Not that humour travels very well*, so it may have been so.




Claverhouse :ph34r:



* Would Jackie Mason be acclaimed in Saudi ? Would 'Married --- With Children' be a riot in China ? Would Ellen deGeneres be funny anywhere ?

[Melody]

i think kicking random ppl in the nuts would be funny anywhere

especially where it would be perceived as not funny

inside the Vatican for example

not to mention it has been the case where those copying the bibles did not understand the language they were written in

[Claverhouse]

Perhaps. Misfortunately Spanish is among the thousands of languages I don't know; so google translator, referred thereto by Firefox translator extension, gave:

1/ perdoname my love by all along that it loves to you, I did damage to you.

2/ you amé of but and was my error that solitude, I am without you, I am paying it.


I could easily assume this was once a song by Connie Francis.



Claverhouse :ph34r:


[ You could renounce girls and become a monk ].

[ As to the humour of you kicking or being kicked in the Vatican, it proves my point: they wouldn't find it funny. Not even 500 years ago ].

[Melody]

The source is a song by Juan Gabriel called, "Te Sigo Amando." \\"I keep loving you." It's a really good song! It makes me teary. :cry:

The way Mexican banda artists often do things, however, I would not doubt it was written by some dude ten years earlier. They seem to like holding on to tradition. That seems to be slowly changing, though...

[Genius. I could become a monk and kick the Pope in the nuts. ^_^]

[jimkopelli]

It would be an undercover thing... or underfrock or something.

[adamaw11]

Cool, all the replies to my mostly serious post, are filled with little bits of humor



Would 'Married --- With Children' be a riot in China ? Would Ellen deGeneres be funny anywhere ?


i think kicking random ppl in the nuts would be funny anywhere
especially where it would be perceived as not funny

:rofl:

[Johnny]

Yeah, but what is even more funny is the assertion that the Bible was written by God, and despite humanity's continual efforts to pollute it and rewrite it for personal gain and political power, it has remained unblemished through a multitude of translations, rewrites, add-ons, censorings, and misunderstandings.

Why? Because even were this so, just as Claverhouse points out, it doesn't also mean we then understand anything about it... :lol:

[Boozer]

Isaiah's prophecy in the original Hebrew states that the Messiah would be conceived by an "almah" (="young woman"), whereas the Greek translation in the Septuagint version of Isaiah refers to a "parthenos" (="virgin").


Lost in Translation indeed.

[Claverhouse]

Aren't all young women virgins then ?



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Sugaraddict2702]

Aren't all young women virgins then ?



Claverhouse :ph34r:

yeah well, one can make long conversations about that...

~°´sugaraddict`°~

[synchronous]

Isaiah's prophecy in the original Hebrew states that the Messiah would be conceived by an "almah" (="young woman"), whereas the Greek translation in the Septuagint version of Isaiah refers to a "parthenos" (="virgin").

It is my understanding that the word 'virgin' did not have the same meaning 2,000+ years ago, as it does today.
The term 'Virgin' back then meant 'young woman' or young maiden. It had no relevance to her sexual activity.

[synchronous]

Isaiah's prophecy in the original Hebrew states that the Messiah would be conceived by an "almah" (="young woman"), whereas the Greek translation in the Septuagint version of Isaiah refers to a "parthenos" (="virgin").


Lost in Translation indeed.


http://www.webster-dictionary.org/definition/Virgin%20Birth

I recommend reading the section titled, "Scriptural and Philological Controversy" from the above link. It discusses the dispute regarding the translation/misinterpretation of Isaiah 7:14, and generally the ambiguity over the translation and interpretation of the term 'virgin', pertaining to 'virgin birth' and 'Virgin Mary'. I've read other articles with similar discussions about the controversy over the interpretation of Isaiah.

[ape_ape_ape]

I saw a TV documentary once that said the word "messiah" (in ancient times) meant king rather than the promised one or the deliverer of the Jews as it is taken to mean today - the point being that by Jesus asserting himself as King was challenging the Roman authority rather than the Jewish priests, so he was more a political figure than religious figure. The documentary backed this up by saying that crusifiction was a Roman punishment for crimes against Rome and if like the Bible suggested it was the Jews that wanted him executed he would have been stoned rather than crucified.

[Danyal]

I remember an RE lesson at senior school where it was pointed out the hebrew for 'by' is the same as 'on'. There were other examples but this I remember because I was picturing Jesus walking around the lake and thinking 'bet he wished he could just walk over the bleeding thing' whilst looking at a map of the 'holy land'. (Yes I remember only the strangest things).

So my theory is the basic stories may have some truth but only in as much as an ancient Greek myth. Its all a big conspiricy (damn where's that spell checker) by religious bodies imo, just as the Eygtians believed the Nile would not flood if the Paroh wasn't happy. The Bible may be a good book but it's biggest achivement are the churches its built over the ages.

[INTrPosr]

Something I've wondered about the whole bible thing, is how accurate the translation between languages could have been. The "chinese wispers" effect is significant enough even when things are in the same language and passed from one person to another. So that effect, combined with translation between languages, would make me think that the original intended meaning of many statements could be quite distorted. As a vague example, what if "he ascended to heaven" actually meant something like "he climbed up a tree"
It could have been worse. It could have been someone translating from Western English. I have thought the same thing. I also questioned the person requiring the revisement. So, l would seriously consider what was on King James' mind at the time of his revision.