Organic Chem.

[Pooja]

Starting next monday, I'm taking "Chem 395", which is "Honors Organic Chemistry", and the lab that goes with it.

If you've taken 'orgo' before, do you have any advice for doing well in it? How much should be memorized? What's the most difficult part of this class? Any advice at all would be highly appreciated.

This class has a rep. for turning hard science majors into humanities majors. And after the genetics class from hell last semester ( :mad: ), I can't afford another bad grade. :ph34r:

[Apostasius]

Starting next monday, I'm taking "Chem 395", which is "Honors Organic Chemistry", and the lab that goes with it.

If you've taken 'orgo' before, do you have any advice for doing well in it? How much should be memorized? What's the most difficult part of this class? Any advice at all would be highly appreciated.

This class has a rep. for turning hard science majors into humanities majors. And after the genetics class from hell last semester ( :mad: ), I can't afford another bad grade. :ph34r: I didn't take honors Orgo, but I did take the normal two semester sequence a couple of years ago. There is MUCH memorization (at least for my class). Generally, I found that I could get easily confused with the naming and the structures, but I found flash cards a tremendous help. Don't even get me started with mechanisms; they are evil. So, uh, I guess memorizing the mechanisms is what sucked most--and there are LOTS. The class wasn't entirely uninteresting (well...mostly it was), but it was tedious. I think a good professor can make a difference.

[Pooja]

I didn't take honors Orgo, but I did take the normal two semester sequence a couple of years ago. There is MUCH memorization (at least for my class). Generally, I found that I could get easily confused with the naming and the structures, but I found flash cards a tremendous help. Don't even get me started with mechanisms; they are evil. So, uh, I guess memorizing the mechanisms is what sucked most--and there are LOTS. The class wasn't entirely uninteresting (well...mostly it was), but it was tedious. I think a good professor can make a difference.

damn. Reading that, just makes me want to become a traveling hobo, or join a commune. At this point, I don't have a clue as to what sort of 'mechanisms' you're referring to. But it doesn't sound good at all. I've never used notecards before in my life. And in the past, my method of studying usually involved cramming the night before (or 2 nights before if it was a hard science). And pulling at least one all-nighter. But after getting my first 'C' last semester, i'm ready to at least act like a "J" in order to pull my GPA back up. Joining that commune is starting to sound like a really good idea. I would too, but I'd miss having an internet connection too much.

[ferunandesu]

just makes me want to become a traveling hobo, or join a commune

sounds like a plan

[mr. treat]

i'm just finishing the regular 2 semester organic sequence, and i got a C both semesters. it is a lot of work, and i couldn't stand it because it's chemistry without math. mechanisms weren't so bad for me, but memorizing reagents and what they do can get confusing so i kept a list on a sheet of paper. synthesis was the thing that really gave me trouble.

[Enigma]

I did take a couple semesters of organic although it was back in the eighties. The best advice I can give (which I wish I had taken myself back then) is to do ALL of the assigned sample problems, and keep on top of them so you don't get behind.

I found that it was easy to sit through class and do some/most of the readings, a few problems and I thought that I got it conceptually. I got by with a B the first semester but really had to struggle at the end of the second semester to get a C. But then the most amazing thing happened. After spending about a week of evenings in the library solving those stupid problems before the final..........I had an epiphany. I suddenly UNDERSTOOD organic chemistry. And it was really cool! I wish I had been more diligent.

Of course now, I don't remember any of it!
I still entertain a dream of going to veterinary school someday, which would mean taking a course in biochemistry..........so I guess some review is in order.

Anyone taken biochem? Do I really need to remember a great deal from general chem and organic?

[lbloom]

The last time I took it, I found organic chem much more enjoyable than inorganic. There are fewer exceptions to "logical" processes than in inorganic, and there's certainly a point of understanding beyond which I found it really low maintenance - i.e. it was easy to work on new material on the fly. It's all beautifully structured. Enjoy your class.

[MacGuffin]

Organic is hard, and you do have to learn a lot of things through memorization. Good luck.

[sasapurdue]

Starting next monday, I'm taking "Chem 395", which is "Honors Organic Chemistry", and the lab that goes with it.

If you've taken 'orgo' before, do you have any advice for doing well in it? How much should be memorized? What's the most difficult part of this class? Any advice at all would be highly appreciated.

This class has a rep. for turning hard science majors into humanities majors. And after the genetics class from hell last semester ( :mad: ), I can't afford another bad grade. :ph34r:

I had to take two organic chemistry courses in college. I can't remember which class it was but I had to retake one of them -- the only class I had to repeat in college. I thought it was extremely tough. The final exam was like a book -- I remember thinking it was like something out of a movie.
I would just say try as hard as you can not to let yourself get behind. I don't just mean in terms of the assignments but in understanding the material. If you have a Chemistry help room you can use or if you can get a tutor, don't hesitate to do so. It was always very hard for me to swallow my pride and utilize these resources but you will save yourself a lot of agony if you do!
I don't know if this is a universal INTP trait but I HATE asking for help. I want to be able to do things on my own so that I can feel competent. Looking back on my college career, my biggest regret is that I didn't ask for help more (maybe my grad GPA would have been a little better).

[ferunandesu]

i've never taken a chemistry class, at any level, never ever ever... i don't know why i'm posting here...

[sasapurdue]

Yes, it is true, some of those reaction mechanisms are EVIL. A prof at my college won a freaking nobel prize for his discovery of one of the mechanisms (hydroboration or something) and I still couldn't remember it!

[ferunandesu]

purdue?

[sasapurdue]

purdue?
yes

[Apostasius]

Anyone taken biochem? Do I really need to remember a great deal from general chem and organic? I just finished my two semester biochem. I found that I had to remember a lot less than I thought I would. You will have to dredge up recollection of acid base chemistry from general chem. Familiarity with nucleophiles will be useful-- as will recollection of redox chemistry. Overall, though, biochem is just different than organic. There are fewer mechanisms and more memorization of metabolic pathways, which can get confusing with all of those lame ass enzyme names.

[Pooja]

I just finished my two semester biochem. I found that I had to remember a lot less than I thought I would. You will have to dredge up recollection of acid base chemistry from general chem. Familiarity with nucleophiles will be useful-- as will recollection of redox chemistry. Overall, though, biochem is just different than organic. There are fewer mechanisms and more memorization of metabolic pathways, which can get confusing with all of those lame ass enzyme names.

I just finished with redox reactions and acid/base stuff... And hardly 'got' it then. I knew I should've been a philosophy major!

[nomir_dva]

I just finished with redox reactions and acid/base stuff... And hardly 'got' it then. I knew I should've been a philosophy major!

But then you'd be studying for your exam in relational predicate logic, which I'm sure is nothing compared to organic chemistry, but nonetheless . . .

There are surprisingly many people on my hall (all freshmen) who are taking organic chemistry right now. I haven't really talked to them about it, but I get the impression that they work hard for a C average in the class.

[Pooja]

these resources but you will save yourself a lot of agony if you do!
I don't know if this is a universal INTP trait but I HATE asking for help. I want to be able to do things on my own so that I can feel competent. Looking back on my college career, my biggest regret is that I didn't ask for help more (maybe my grad GPA would have been a little better).

I'm the same way. Last year, in one of the chem. classes I was taking, we had "student instructers" who sat in on the class and answered questions (they were usually upper-classmen who had done well in the class. But my stupid, arrogant, intellectual pride kept me from asking for help or even going to one of their 'sessions'. Instead, I'd spend hours on the internet or with my textbook, trying to figure it out on my own. It sort of worked...though I still struggled.
So, now I'm going to try and suck it up, and ask.
so, in all, I should:
make notecards,
ask for help,
do the recommended homework problems,
etc....

This is stuff that I already knew, intuitively. But usually, procrastination, or sheer laziness gets in the way. :ph34r:

[Hustler]

Here you go. (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0070476098/ref=sr_11_1/103-4326467-0181410?%5Fencoding=UTF8)

[Serotonin]

Basically you have to turn your brain into a filing cabinet. This reaction turns this into this, with these 6 caveats. It's all about Si, not Ti. So glad I didn't have to do Chem after freshman year.

[Chimera]

I did take a couple semesters of organic although it was back in the eighties. The best advice I can give (which I wish I had taken myself back then) is to do ALL of the assigned sample problems, and keep on top of them so you don't get behind.

I found that it was easy to sit through class and do some/most of the readings, a few problems and I thought that I got it conceptually. I got by with a B the first semester but really had to struggle at the end of the second semester to get a C. But then the most amazing thing happened. After spending about a week of evenings in the library solving those stupid problems before the final..........I had an epiphany. I suddenly UNDERSTOOD organic chemistry. And it was really cool! I wish I had been more diligent.


I think this is good advice, especially if you consider yourself a visual learner. Do problems, keep doing them, and then do some more. Eventually things will click and you'll stop thinking about the problems in terms of memorization and more about pattern recognition. Then you can deal with problems you've never seen before because you will recognize the similarities to previous problems, and how the different concepts fit together. Individual reactions will just become applications of a few general mechanisms and physical phenomenon.

Organic is a tapestry. Some memorization is unavoidable, but it's not as much as it first appears. It takes time though, so make sure you don't procrastinate too long.. just long enough for the fear to sharpen your mind. :)

[lbloom]

Organic is a tapestry. Some memorization is unavoidable, but it's not as much as it first appears. It takes time though, so make sure you don't procrastinate too long.. just long enough for the fear to sharpen your mind. :)

Precisely.

[ElHalfling]

Hopefully, I will be able to take o-chem next year as a freshman at university. I'm planning to do a chem major and have had quite a bit of experience in a general, inorganic chemistry class.

[Justin05]

If I were you, I would get one than just the text book and globablize as much as possible. Use the online references and anything at your disposal to learn all that stuff. Sounds like its going to be a fun pain in the arse. Get an A and brag about it.

[Justin05]

more than one* and videos/documentaries

[Pooja]

My final exam for organic chemistry is in 30 hours. The subject is kicking my butt. At first, I loved it, when it was just about nomenclature and stereoisomers (ah, the good old days). Even when S1,S2,E1,E2 stuff came along, I was O.K. with it. BUT now, I don't know wtf to do, w/ all of these random reactions&mechanisms that I have to know (hydration, dehydration, oxidation, etc.. of various functional groups)

these help:

http://homepages.wmich.edu/~jkiddle/chem375.htm

http://www.stolaf.edu/depts/chemistry/courses/toolkits/247/

http://www.blackwellpublishing.com/11thhour/book6/oc1ch5.html

http://www.cem.msu.edu/~reusch/VirtTxtJml/intro1.htm#contnt

[Sweet Paramania]

I'm confused - you seem to be studying some stuff that I would expect to see earlier in a course (or at the age of 16-18) - at least in Britain, and then some more degree type stuff.

In some respects its a bit harsh if they have thrown you in at the deep end - given that in the third post (I think) you didn't know what the "mechanisms" being referred to where.

Are you supposed to be able to name heterocylces? I hate them - still can't remember most of them after 5 years at Uni level.

At the risk of confusing you are you learning Meso and more complex chirality?

Most mechanistic organic chem is thankfully pictoral logic with modifications to the R groups.

Learn the rest off-by-heart - I haven't done that enough and regret it endlessly.

Hope your exam goes well. :)

EDIT: Referred has three R's.

[sbw]

damn. Reading that, just makes me want to become a traveling hobo, or join a commune

none of thats necessary. work at a restaurant--or hooters, if you're interested in making more money--and go from there.


But after getting my first 'C' last semester,

its not that big a deal.

Scott

[Pooja]

I'm confused - you seem to be studying some stuff that I would expect to see earlier in a course (or at the age of 16-18) - at least in Britain, and then some more degree type stuff.

In some respects its a bit harsh if they have thrown you in at the deep end - given that in the third post (I think) you didn't know what the "mechanisms" being referred to where.

Are you supposed to be able to name heterocylces? I hate them - still can't remember most of them after 5 years at Uni level.

At the risk of confusing you are you learning Meso and more complex chirality?

Most mechanistic organic chem is thankfully pictoral logic with modifications to the R groups.

Learn the rest off-by-heart - I haven't done that enough and regret it endlessly.

Hope your exam goes well. :)

EDIT: Referred has three R's.

Wow- I hate american education. They never teach that stuff in (most normal) american high schools here. I did the International Baccalauriate Diploma in high school, which taught to the level of europe and asia. But for my 'sciences' I chose to do it in biology and physics. Now I wish I'd have done it in chemistry.
And my final went great. I had trouble w/ a few mechanisms, but I think I still got an "A".

[Sweet Paramania]

Grats Pooja. Hope you got your A.

Yeh, the Bacc. may have had more sensible organic in it for you to build on.

Oh well, at least from what I saw they didn't expect you to be able to tackle any total synths, or anything too ridiculous given the time constraints, so thats a relief!

I really enjoyed the stuff that I saw you were learning, but then that was back in the day when I was living at home, before I was 18 and could booze all I wanted...

:)

Lol - beats crap like this:

Rational Design of Three-Dimensional (3D) Optically Active Molecule-Based Magnets: Synthesis, Structure, Optical and Magnetic Properties of {[Ru(bpy)3]2+, ClO4-, [MnIICrIII(ox)3]-}n and {[Ru(bpy)2ppy]+, [MIICrIII(ox)3]-}n, with MII = MnII, NiII. X-ray Structure of {[Ru(bpy)3]2+, ClO4-, [MnIICrIII(ox)3]-}n and {[Ru(bpy)2ppy]+, [MnIICrIII(ox)3]-}n

[joft]

i pity all of you institutionalized students. i taught myself that stuff when i was 9 years old :rolleyes:

[Sweet Paramania]

Then may I ask Joft...

What do you think of bipy as a ligand?

I find it to be overrated, especially in square planar, low spin, complexes.

[joft]

:joft:

[Sweet Paramania]

Sorry Joft.

[Pooja]

Lol - beats crap like this:

Rational Design of Three-Dimensional (3D) Optically Active Molecule-Based Magnets: Synthesis, Structure, Optical and Magnetic Properties of {[Ru(bpy)3]2+, ClO4-, [MnIICrIII(ox)3]-}n and {[Ru(bpy)2ppy]+, [MIICrIII(ox)3]-}n, with MII = MnII, NiII. X-ray Structure of {[Ru(bpy)3]2+, ClO4-, [MnIICrIII(ox)3]-}n and {[Ru(bpy)2ppy]+, [MnIICrIII(ox)3]-}n

wow... seeing that makes me want to quit this whole school thing, and work at hooters (with a padded bra, probably) like sbw suggested...
:sadbanana:

[Sweet Paramania]

Not my field Pooja, I chose it cos the title rocks :)

I (try to) do organic sythesis with specific emphasis on chiral control.

It rocks sometimes, for 5 minutes. And then come another 2 depressing months.

[Sweet Paramania]

Oh crap - I've cracked.

Just read the most recent post on the main page in the section below this.

Its called "Bicycles", but I read it as Bi-cycles.

Too much chemistry.