Greetings!

[Nighthawk]

Greetings everyone. I'm very happy that a friend referred me to this forum. Perhaps I can expand my circle of INTP (and Rational) acquaintances beyond the single digits. I'm a 42-year-old male software engineer living in the DFW, Texas area. Prior to software engineering, I was an army officer for 13 years ... a very poor fit for an INTP (what the HELL was I thinking?!). I masqueraded as an INTJ during that time, and was finally able to release my imprisoned "P" when I left the army after the first gulf war. I've been a student of Dr. David Keirsey's work, and various other MBTI works, for about 10 years now.

I have many of the stereotypical characteristics of an INTP ... like to be left alone, somewhat cluttered, love to learn a wide array of new things but never specialize, techno-junkie, nit-picker, love to debate, etc. In addition to software engineering, I like reading, graphic arts, writing, sci-fi, computer games, web development, and wide expanses on the edge of civilization. I'm fairly physically active, but that is more from a strategic view of health, rather than because I enjoy it. I dislike extroverted yappers, meetings, perpetually optimistic pollyanas, public transportation, and Guardian (management) or Artisan (sales) run organizations. I have a particularly difficult time dealing with ESTJ's (uber-managers) and ESTP's (uber-salespersons) ... and avoid them as much as possible, or else there will be a confrontation. The ESTP's seem to feel the same way about me, as I am not shy about calling them on their BS.

Ironically, I'm married to an ISFJ and enjoy it very much ... perhaps because she is my introverted shadow opposite. MBTI gives me a good understanding of how she operates, so I don't get annoyed when her J comes out, or when she gets bored with my N musings. I've also educated her about my type, so she puts up with my clutter and has learned to value my different perspectives on problem solving. We've both come to admire each other's strengths, rather than focus on the weaknesses. Both my kids are adults. My son is also an INTP (what are the odds?), so we get along well. I also have an ESTP step-daughter, who I avoid as much as possible. Nothing but trouble there.

At any rate ... glad to be here.

[SheepDog]

Hello Nighthawk. I feel like I know you already...

Although my wife is an ENFP, I am happy to say that I share some of your sentiments. In particular, she and I also admire each other's strengths, and that has made a world of difference.

Finding out what it means to be INTP is quite liberating. Finding others, even a few, makes it much less lonely.

[Nighthawk]

Liberating is a good word for it. After living 30 years in a Guardian/Artisan dominated world ... being expected to fit into a Guardian or Artisan mold ... it was very nice to be myself for once, and not feel like there was something wrong with me. Now I am better at insulating myself from the expectations of the majority types.

[SheepDog]

It took me a only a little less than that to stop trying to fit into the Guardian or Artisan mold, as you describe. I've accepted myself for who I am in my personal life. I just have to find the right career now. IT had promise, but it is tainted by the same types.

I'm interested in hearing more about your graphic arts endeavors. Anything to share?

In line with "wide expanses on the edge of civilization", I was talking to my wife the other day, and we were noticing that there's nothing natural in our daily lives. We tried to think of anything at all that exists in our locale that was not manipulated by humans in some way. We couldn't. We both like nature (e.g. primitive camping and hiking), but live in such an un-natural place.

[Nighthawk]

It took me a only a little less than that to stop trying to fit into the Guardian or Artisan mold, as you describe. I've accepted myself for who I am in my personal life. I just have to find the right career now. IT had promise, but it is tainted by the same types.

The right career can be a real challenge. Unfortunately for us, the Guardians and Artisans run corporate America and the government. There are 75 times as many of them as there are of us. Your choices, if you want to grow, are either management or sales. Both involve heavy interaction with people and a low intellectual challenge (IMHO). Even the places with technical career ladders use them as window dressing for management positions. If you don't want to attend 5 meetings a day, schmooze with the Senior VP, and toilet train employees, then you are stuck as a mid-salary techno-drone. Of course, you could get out on the golf course with clients and sell, sell, sell. Those are pretty much your only choices.

Very few professions reward individual performance. It is all about the extraverted Guardian teamwork. Some viable individual professions that do come to mind are: University professor, physician, researcher, and lawyer. Physicians and lawyers have a lot of interaction with people however ... many of them sick or criminal. Researcher's don't get paid a lot. Professors usually must have a PhD as their union card. Still not a lot of choices out there for us.


I'm interested in hearing more about your graphic arts endeavors. Anything to share?

My graphic art endeavors are confined mostly to Adobe Photoshop. I'm not a good freehand artist, but I do fairly well manipulating images and creating photo montages. It fits in well with my web design interests. Doesn't pay anything, nor do I think it will in the future, so it is just hobby status. If I remain true to form, I'll probably lose interest in it as soon as I reach some level of proficiency.


We both like nature (e.g. primitive camping and hiking), but live in such an un-natural place.

Thirteen years of living outdoors in the army kind of soured me on camping ... but I do like a cabin on an island or mountain top.

[Flinchy]

Welcome, Nighthawk!

I am new here, too, and am still trying to do the right amoung of lurking before diving into a discussion.

I relate to much of what you've said about yourself -- especially the PhotoShop hobby! I have taken to messing around in PhotoShop lately, and briefly considered a move to a graphics arts career, but then realized that I have little interest in finding out how to use every feature in the program, etc., and, regardless, once I were to get really good at it, I would get bored, and doing routine work in design would quickly lose its challenge.

[Nighthawk]

Thanks Flinchy:-)

Learning every feature in Photoshop also put me off a bit. Its kind of a mixed blessing / mixed curse being a jack of all trades, but master of none, all the time. The routine gets to me as well. If I have to do something more than 3 times, I want to automate it.

[Boozer]

Thanks Flinchy:-)
If I have to do something more than 3 times, I want to automate it.

I made a job of that. :)

Welcome.

I'm still getting used to so many people like me. On the one hand it's liberating. But I'm starting to feel like I have nothing to add.

[booyalab]

Thanks Flinchy:-)
If I have to do something more than 3 times, I want to automate it.

I made a job of that. :)

Welcome.

I'm still getting used to so many people like me. On the one hand it's liberating. But I'm starting to feel like I have nothing to add.

but on the bright side...then neither do we!

[SheepDog]

I was noticing that the view-to-post ratio is consistently close to 10:1. Perhaps that's because many feel the same way about not posting anything new?

[Nighthawk]

I'm still getting used to so many people like me. On the one hand it's liberating. But I'm starting to feel like I have nothing to add.

I hear you. So much commonality here and INTP's hate being redundant. ;)

[Nighthawk]

I was noticing that the view-to-post ratio is consistently close to 10:1. Perhaps that's because many feel the same way about not posting anything new?

It can be a bit daunting posting somewhere that you know is filled with people who communicate precisely and are devastating in debates. Not the average "u r teh sux0r l00z3r" crowd here.

[Jezebel]

I was noticing that the view-to-post ratio is consistently close to 10:1. Perhaps that's because many feel the same way about not posting anything new?

I'm just lazy. Sometimes the more I have to say, the less energy I can muster up to type it.