writing/journalism career

[altblue]

yet another path I have an interest in possibly pursuing...writer or journalist for a current events type publication. It's probably not a stereotypical INTP-type job, but I like researching and writing. Just don't think I'd like those hard deadlines though. Do any of you INTPs here have experience with jobs in journalism?

[Ferrus]

No, it is something I am thinking about a lot - odd hours and constant deadlines sound harsh, but all jobs have their difficulties.

The only problem is getting inside in the first place...

[TelecomClone]

Journalism, as in reporting, is not something that I have ever considered - beyond perhaps being some kind of magazine columnist who deals with a few specific genres of music. I have rather frequently entertained the bleary thought of my doing some kind of writing or linguistics-oriented job. Anthropological linguist or memetic linguist, perhaps? I'm not even sure that the professions exist. Alternatively, I've waxed fond of the thought of being an author who produces cynical, iconoclastic tomes which arbitrarily condemn this or that.

I don't know anything about breaking into the salient industry.

[kuranes]

The path you would have to follow, assuming a degree was necessary, would be to use your diploma to get into a newspaper way off in the boonies somewhere. Then gradually work your way towards bigger cities that pay more. From there you could move up the line to specialty areas/functions in the paper. Very few get to write columns based on their whims, like Bob Greene in Chicago.

If you start right off in a major metropolitan area, you would have to successfully bluff your possessing a lot of experience from somewhere else. They just don't seem willing to take bright beginners willing to learn. With the exception of unpaid "interns".

Speaking of unpaid work, always a favorite subject, you can volunteer to do the newsletters for various organizations, and use that as part of your resume.

I got a degree in Creative Writing, back in '77, and it never did me any good, other than to show I had a college degree. I would advise against doing this, unless you want to go the downstate or free work route, and use your communications skills for something else. Or learn some technical field, and then be a technical writer for the field.

There is also Advertising and PR, but they all seemed to want experience also. The eternal catch 22.

As has been discussed before, you can also teach English overseas. The higher paid jobs go to those with teaching certificates/degrees and TEFL's.

[bergenski]

Lots of "S" activities...deadlines, people, details.

[songbird36]

Here in NZ you tend to need some sort of journalism qualification at Tech to get a newspaper/magazine job. Either that or you could start freelance feature writing for a few years and send your stuff round to various publications, and try and get a name for yourself. Photography skills are helpful for freelance work.

Both my parents were journalists and my father got a job on a political party newspaper with just a Uni degree, and then rose to an editorial position with another weekly magazine, but that was back in the old days when the right bits of paper counted for less..

[Spartan26]

While meeting deadlines can be tough, I never found it to be the killer. One college paper I wrote for came out 4 days a week. I didn't have articles in everyday but it was enough to get the sense of covering an event and turning it around the same afternoon. Generally, you go to some podunk town after college. Stay there for a while, move up to a town that you may've actually heard of, perhaps big enough to be written in bold on a AAA Trip-Tik. Then move into a major market. The pressure, of course, increases as the stakes/money get larger but you'll have experience and can handle producing. Professionally, the magazines and community publications I've written for have more accommodating deadlines. The problem in that case can be turning something over you're not ready to let go of. This can happen at any level.

Some of the things that have been trying for me have been editing. You're always going to have someone edit your work. You should never think that you don't need it. However, there will be times when they will butcher your work. Change things that changes the meaning. Take out some of your best work. What have you, it sucks.

The flip side to this is that editors don't want to edit your work. Occassionally, you'll have someone that you'll remind that person of an ex-spouse and so you're doomed to have this person with an ax to grind against you but for the most part, they want to see the work as clean as possible. An INTP may be a big picture writer. As my posts will show, I'll blow over type-o's like Hurricane Katrina. This might be a difficult thing to monitor. Last thing you want is for people hate reading you.

You could make a decent living as a technical writer. I would think this position to be too monotonous for an intp. You may even end up hating writing because of the chore like nature of it. There's also going to work for a P/R firm. Occassionally, I'll do some freelance copywriting. OK, not exactly telemarketing but you get a sense of the soul draining activity.

Things you can do now:
1). Write everyday.
2). Hustle, knowledge and persistence pays off. Think of some of your favorite publications. What do you like about them? Which writers do you enjoy the most? How does it differ from its biggest competitor? These are the type of things to consider when sending a query letter. You want to pitch ideas that will so obvious for them to include, yet not too much like what they've already done. You also want to show why you're uniquely qualified to write that article. You may have to send four letters to one magazine before you get so much as a rejection letter. Also be prepared to make the follow up calls. I HATE THIS! Not only for the mere fact you might actually have to listen to someone tell you how much your work blows but just how draining it can be to chit chat w/strangers.

3). Work begats more work. Use momentum to your advantage. People love working with the hot young writer. Say after you've done your research and you found a the Goodland Gazette runs articles on conventions and exhibits. So you send in something about the Tri-county Model Train Fair. They love it! Next you query the Alberdeen Post, tell 'em you have an article about the antique doll display that'll be passing through their town. They say sure, we'll take it. OK, now you've got a little juice. Maybe next is a Barbie Convention. You go and meet the outgoing CEO and talk to her for 5-10 minutes, mention you're a writer, she may drop a few stats for you. Now you write up an article(s) and go to Parenting Magazine. What they wouldn't love to hear about Barbies from such a position. You're able to show them samples of similar work so, bingo, they buy it.

That's big time. Published in a reputable national magazine can get you more work. Even though you have no experience (published) you could easily approach Field & Stream about something like a fly fishing convention. They'll probably at least read you since Parenting is something they've heard of. Do Field & Stream, Parenting, now you're not bound by labels only freelance journalist.

4). Go write some more.

I guess that's it for now. I'd go into screenplay writing but that'll just make you sob uncontrollably.

[altblue]

Thanks to everyone for their insight, especially Spartan26's in depth pointers. Gives me something to think about...though it sounds like more schmoozing, frustration, and work than it might be worth...

[Rooster]

I was a Journalism major and was the Chief Editor of my college paper. All you need to do is go to one SPJ (Soceity of Professional Journalist) meeting and you will know just about everything you could wish to know about the feild. As an INTP I know I would be a far better Editor that writer/reporter. I started out as the Layout and Design Editor for my paper and redesigned the whole danm thing. I spent plenty of nights working til 2 in the morning to get it out by deadline but I usually didn't even notice. If you have any interest you should at least investigate it yourself.

Note: I hate AP Style!!!!!!!

[DevRock]

I think it's a decent career for INTPs, but beware that you will live in poverty for most of your life unless you marry well or have another job. I worked for a weekly town paper for a couple of years and overall enjoyed it. There was a satisfaction in finishing a good story and every week was different. Personally, I had to overcome mild social anxiety, because I had to interview a LOT of people. I eventually got past that. The pay? Awful. Here in CT, $11.50/hr doesn't carry you very far. My editor, who was there for 10 years only made about $40k/yr. He did a lot on the side to be able to live comfortably.

For me, the weekly deadlines were a challenge, but I'm a master at procrastination and very rarely had to worry about missing a deadline.

The younger you start, the better, IMO. That way the low pay isn't abnormal and you're used to getting by on pennies a day. Journalism can be tough, depending on what subject area you prusue. If it's simply for a newspaper, then it's not nearly as tough. Honestly, you just need someone to give you that first break. Everyone is always looking for experience. So, look to the small community papers.

If you start small and get some work, then things fall into place. It's not as frustrating as you think as long as you can write well. Also, magazines tend to pay better, but they are a BITCH to get into. That's because many of them are family-owned and dont hire much from the outside and once people get jobs at a good magazine, they tend to stay. Again, the more experience you get, the easier that door will eventually open. But, stay away from certain industries, especially automotive industry. Don't even think about going there.

I've run my course in journalism and I'm going back into IT full time as soon as a job I'm working on comes through (hopefully this week).

[Ferrus]

I would find magazine and newspaper journalism far more interesting than broadcast journalism, but it is the latter which holds increasing numbers of jobs right?

[DevRock]

I would find magazine and newspaper journalism far more interesting than broadcast journalism, but it is the latter which holds increasing numbers of jobs right?

True, but I find it hard to call that "journalism." TV news is increasingly becoming full of tabloid bullshit and entertainment "news."

[bergenski]

I think it is fair to say that I wouldn't go into journalism unless you knew you you were meant to do it. The pay/stress/working holidays thing seems to only be for those who love to record facts. It isn't *writing*,remember, it's *recording*. I can understand the "uncovering the truth" part of it holds allure, but it takes a lot of persistence and follow through to get to it, ie. grunt work. (Also, remember, there will always be someone who can't stand you for your work. Just something to note.)

[DevRock]

I think it is fair to say that I wouldn't go into journalism unless you knew you you were meant to do it. The pay/stress/working holidays thing seems to only be for those who love to record facts. It isn't *writing*,remember, it's *recording*.

Sorry, bro,that is absolutely NOT true at all unless you're a shitty journalist. A good journalist goes out and seeks interesting stories people want to read about. Yes, some of it is covering the dreadfully boring P&Z and school board meetings. But even with those, you find an interesting tidbit and expand on that.

Part of the satisfaction of being a journalist is actually being able to tell a story, getting your readers to feel something, like they experienced an event first-hand.

[bergenski]

Sorry, bro,that is absolutely NOT true at all unless you're a shitty journalist. A good journalist goes out and seeks interesting stories people want to read about. Yes, some of it is covering the dreadfully boring P&Z and school board meetings. But even with those, you find an interesting tidbit and expand on that.

Part of the satisfaction of being a journalist is actually being able to tell a story, getting your readers to feel something, like they experienced an event first-hand.
Fine, but undeniably the basis of your work is the recording of facts. One has to be OK with that before moving on to the more evocative aspects of it.

[DevRock]

Fine, but undeniably the basis of your work is the recording of facts. One has to be OK with that before moving on to the more evocative aspects of it.

I guess it depends on how you view "recording of facts." If you think you're going to be taking notes like a school board secretary, then yeah, it will suck. If you are writing about what happened during an embezzlement scandal down the sreet, then it is extremely interesting.

[Ferrus]

True, but I find it hard to call that "journalism." TV news is increasingly becoming full of tabloid bullshit and entertainment "news."
Yes - well you see I have contacts within a broadcasting company who may offer some hope of entry; I'm prepared to take whatever I can get obviously, but I'm not sure I'd want to be stuck in that enviroment forever, do journalists move across media?

[helium]

Note: I hate AP Style!!!!!!!

AP Style is EEEEEEVIL. The best rationale I've been given for some of that nonsense was, "You do it because that's the way it's done. Period."

[bergenski]

I guess it depends on how you view "recording of facts." If you think you're going to be taking notes like a school board secretary, then yeah, it will suck. If you are writing about what happened during an embezzlement scandal down the sreet, then it is extremely interesting.
And how many amazing stories do you get at those first few newspapers/stations? Anyway, all I'm saying is that the very basis of journalism is about recording facts and details *with accuracy* and I don't think that is a strong suit of many INTPs. I'm just saying one should be sure one is OK with that aspect of it before heading into the low-paying, hard working, thankless world of journalism. I'm not denying the more evocative aspects of it.

[DevRock]

And how many amazing stories do you get at those first few newspapers/stations? Anyway, all I'm saying is that the very basis of journalism is about recording facts and details *with accuracy* and I don't think that is a strong suit of many INTPs. I'm just saying one should be sure one is OK with that aspect of it before heading into the low-paying, hard working, thankless world of journalism. I'm not denying the more evocative aspects of it.

Well, I guess the number of amazing stories depends on where you work. Where I was, it was more up to me to find interesting crap that boring, upper class (money wise, not class-wise) people would read about. There was the occassional murder or suicide or school scandal. You'll def get more of that at a large market paper. Sometimes it's just the fun, goofy stories you find that make it exciting.

In terms of details and accuracy, you're really forced to be good at that or you're shown the door quicky. I learned to write VERY fast and was usually pretty good at taking accurate notes.

Can it be low-paying and thankless? Absolutely.

[Ferrus]

Did you learn shorthand?

[DevRock]

Did you learn shorthand?

No, but I wanted to. It's a dying art. I bought a book on it, but it's sitting on my shelf like the 30 otehr books I've bought the past 5 years.....