Enneagram Instincts/ Subtypes

[Jasz]

more than anything else, i noticed that my relationship dynamics are best described by using the enneagram instincts/ subtypes. i am a strong sx while my wife is a (very) strong sp. she can go days without physically touching me and it drives me mad. i can be very moody and only interested in sex and no hugging but thrive on minor touching (hand on shoulder, touching under arm briefly etc). note that she is an ESFJ and i am an INTP which puzzled me since it seems like our enneagram instincts are counterintuitive.

is an ESFJ with strong enneagram "sp" instinct counterintuitive?
is an INTP with strong enneagram "sx" instinct counterintuitive?

i wanted to see how people rank here if we would introduce strong/ moderate instincts. the order of the options is semi-artificial and has no specific meaning


___________________________________

Social (so)

Drive: The search for Community
Desire: Desire for Group (Social Acceptance ? People ? Recognition ? Popularity ? Honor ? Status)
Fear: Fear of Not Belonging
Preoccupation: Prestige (Fellowship ? Events ? Cooperation ? Admiration ? Pecking Order ? Clubs High Ranking ? Superiority ?Glory Causes ? Companionship ? Fame)

Sexual (sx)

Drive: The search for Intimacy
Desire: Desire for Mate (Pair Bonding ? Affinity ? Closeness ? Wholeness ? The other half ? The beloved)
Fear: Fear of Undesirability
Preoccupation: Connection (Intrigue ? Encounters ? Rivalry Attractiveness ? Impulse ? Passion ? The Best Friend ? Revealing Self ? Eye Contact ? Union ? Glamour)

Self-Preserving (sp)

Drive: The search for Survival
Desire: Desire for Security (Well being ? Food ? Comfort ? Safety ? Protection ? Conservation)
Fear: Fear of Not Surviving
Preoccupation: Coping (Anxiety ? Mortality ? Health ? Diets Obesity ? Vigilance ? Safety ? Ease ? Finances ? Nourishment ? Time ? Essentials ? Sensuality? Possessions)

[CosmicDust]

You want counterintuitive, try being a social INTP. :)

Actually, any non-self-pres INTP can be somewhat counterintuitive.

[aether]

I am definitely SP I just don't know if strong or moderate SP.

[CosmicDust]

I wasn't sure whether to answer strong or moderate for my social...I'm not like a party animal or anything, but I can really torture myself over whether I measure up to others/standards or have value or worth...so I answered strong social.

[Jasz]

I wasn't sure whether to answer strong or moderate for my social...I'm not like a party animal or anything, but I can really torture myself over whether I measure up to others/standards or have value or worth...so I answered strong social.

that is quite interesting as it seems contradictory to your introversion, what is your own view on that? so you draw your energy from yourself but want your ideas validated publicly? are you actively seeking that validation or are you just hard on yourself?

[Jasz]

I am definitely SP I just don't know if strong or moderate SP.

what would friends/ family/ colleagues say?

[CosmicDust]

that is quite interesting as it seems contradictory to your introversion, what is your own view on that? so you draw your energy from yourself but want your ideas validated publicly? are you actively seeking that validation or are you just hard on yourself?
I do tend to look for public validation of my ideas when I present them.

I also tend to monitor what is considered valuable to certain elements of society I interact with and compare myself to others or make my own internalized yardsticks from the external impressions.

My introversion shows as I tend to process all these things in my own head, with external feedback providing limited fuel.

Online, I seem to become quite extroverted/external rather easily...because in all ways except that there are other people responding, it is just writing and thinking.

[shaytana]

My sx has been exerting itself more than usual lately so I voted strong but it's usually pretty moderate.

[Jasz]

My sx has been exerting itself more than usual lately so I voted strong but it's usually pretty moderate.

so how does your sx instinct represent itself versus your introverted nature? in what situations comes your sx instinct out very strongly?

i always seem to "debrief" in one-on-one sessions with people after a larger group meeting, to either follow up on points made or to further clarify or to delve in deeper than the meeting allowed. in that sense the sx instinct is a great attribute

even though i am an introvert in the end, i get lots of energy from one-on-one discussion while group meetings are draining. i like how the enneagram instinct recognize this 'middle ground" between being a total social recluse and being a social butterfly.

[charred_heart]

It's strange that I keep getting sp as the strongest trait as I don't have that much self interest to put it above all else, especially above looking for a life long companion. Maybe the fear of rejection offsets the results?...

[Jasz]

It's strange that I keep getting sp as the strongest trait as I don't have that much self interest to put it above all else, especially above looking for a life long companion. Maybe the fear of rejection offsets the results?...

i think that is correct, if fear of rejection > need for connection than sp versus sx

[charred_heart]

i think that is correct, if fear of rejection > need for connection than sp versus sxthe thing is my fear does not stop me from pursuing a love interest but breakups are terribly depressing for me and it's hard to recover from them. So that's why I say rejection hurts me in the tests.

[waxwing]

Remember that adding Enneagram 5 to the instinctual variant SX makes for a paradoxical existence. Sx says, "Connect, for it the only thing that brings satisfaction." 5 says, "Stay detached; nobody will understand me anyway."

I don't quite understand the notion of a moderate sx although I'm sure it must exist. If there is one thing that seems the hallmark of sx to me, it is a penchant for immoderation. I, personally, have an innate need for intimacy. All my relationships burn out, but while they are strong, I'm convinced they are the most beautiful manifestation *ever* of what it means to be alive and human. I've noticed in other suspected sx's that there seems to be a need to experience extreme emotions. I was trying to think of how to explain it, and the best I can come up with is that it simultaneously relates to limitations and boundlessness. I'm not able to divorce the 5w4 from the sx here, so basically, I would say that I must experience the farthest edges and the deepest kernels of everything. For example, I like the smell of wet dog so I dig my nose into my dog's hair until I cry. The moment at which i connect with the smell and, therefore, with my dog, is the moment I experience the intimacy I desire. It's the same with people. I'm not satisfied until I've glimpsed the raw humanity and tasted it on my tongue.

[lbloom]

A moderate sx experiences the same intensity - only, not all the time.

[waxwing]

A moderate sx experiences the same intensity - only, not all the time.
That is what I can't imagine. For me it is constant.

[Ellipsis]

I am a sp - moderate though at times I can go to the strong side...and also at times I might go on sx/so moderete but never really strong.

[lbloom]

Being on an sx high makes me feel alive, but it wears me out too. I like to de-focus. I'm happiest when I'm mellow and relaxed. A lot that is sublime is subtle too, and would escape if my sx kept popping up and drowning it out.

[waxwing]

Sx would never drain me. I want to die when I can't connect. No lie.

[panda]

waxwing: I relate completely, except for the wet dog part.

[phenol]

I'm definately sx but I don't know whether it's strong or moderate. I think I'd say it's strong though.

I'm guessing my sx/so/sp order of subtypes is unusual for INTPs, but I am what I am.

[Eileen]

I *think* that my variant is social, though I'm not sure. It might be sexual. It's not self-preservation, though.

[April]

Being a 9w1 with an sx/so stacking makes no sense at first... but that's me!

[Jasz]

Being on an sx high makes me feel alive, but it wears me out too. I like to de-focus. I'm happiest when I'm mellow and relaxed. A lot that is sublime is subtle too, and would escape if my sx kept popping up and drowning it out.

as a 7 and very sx i would like to be able to really focus, i feel like i am always in a frantic seeking new/ more thrills/ experiences

[Jasz]

Remember that adding Enneagram 5 to the instinctual variant SX makes for a paradoxical existence. Sx says, "Connect, for it the only thing that brings satisfaction." 5 says, "Stay detached; nobody will understand me anyway."

maybe there is a drive to connect not to be connected?

[Watermark]

Remember that adding Enneagram 5 to the instinctual variant SX makes for a paradoxical existence. Sx says, "Connect, for it the only thing that brings satisfaction." 5 says, "Stay detached; nobody will understand me anyway."

I can relate, although not to the extent you experience it. I usually test sp first, but, that paradoxical existence comes into play, which makes me think my stacking may be sx/sp. Without delving into the details of my life history, it certainly explains much of my difficulties in intimate relationships.

[DoubleThought]

I'm entirely SP. Not even a small amount of the others. Kind of strange.

[aether]

what would friends/ family/ colleagues say?

They'd say moderate SP, so I will vote for that.

[cjs55]

I don't know what I am anymore in the enneagram whatsoever. 5w4, 5w6, sx, sp...I'm clueless.

I really used to think I was 5w4 SX. But I'm worried it was just a stage. I don't know anymore.

[Jasz]

Being a 9w1 with an sx/so stacking makes no sense at first... but that's me!

why not? doesn't seem as contradictory as, say, a 5sx

[INTrePid]

My sp and sx are both pretty strong. I have never heard anyone refer to the "sx" is a sexual factor.

[Kaveri]

The last time that I took an enneagram test @ similarminds, the result was something like 4w5 sp/so.

But now that I read these descriptions:


Social (so)

Drive: The search for Community
Desire: Desire for Group (Social Acceptance ? People ? Recognition ? Popularity ? Honor ? Status)
Fear: Fear of Not Belonging
Preoccupation: Prestige (Fellowship ? Events ? Cooperation ? Admiration ? Pecking Order ? Clubs High Ranking ? Superiority ?Glory Causes ? Companionship ? Fame)

Sexual (sx)

Drive: The search for Intimacy
Desire: Desire for Mate (Pair Bonding ? Affinity ? Closeness ? Wholeness ? The other half ? The beloved)
Fear: Fear of Undesirability
Preoccupation: Connection (Intrigue ? Encounters ? Rivalry Attractiveness ? Impulse ? Passion ? The Best Friend ? Revealing Self ? Eye Contact ? Union ? Glamour)

Self-Preserving (sp)

Drive: The search for Survival
Desire: Desire for Security (Well being ? Food ? Comfort ? Safety ? Protection ? Conservation)
Fear: Fear of Not Surviving
Preoccupation: Coping (Anxiety ? Mortality ? Health ? Diets Obesity ? Vigilance ? Safety ? Ease ? Finances ? Nourishment ? Time ? Essentials ? Sensuality? Possessions)

...I actually relate to sx the most. (I guess.)

[waxwing]

http://www.ocean-moonshine.net/e142857369/

This is the best site I've seen for an explanation of the instincts/stackings.

[phenol]

http://www.ocean-moonshine.net/e142857369/

This is the best site I've seen for an explanation of the instincts/stackings.

That's a pretty awesome site.

I definately relate to their 5 sx/so description

[dunee]

huh.

I had thought that I fit sp/sx best, but the 5-stack so/sp description on that site actually sounds like it may fit. Perhaps I do feel closer to society as I help excavate a 19th century building or idly try and figure out what social factors lead to the popularity of a certain type of bumper sticker as I pass cars on the road.... :ph34r:

Its weird because the general so/sp description without the 5 stacking detail does not sound like me at all, while the overall sp/sx does fit pretty well. Yet the more detailed 5-sp/sx decription is kinda harder to relate to than the detailed 5-so/sp description.

Are enneatypes supposed to be instincts, not preferences like MBTI? I wonder if my deafness has any role in making group-climates less inviting (well, of course it does, but would I gravitate less towards "one on one" interactions if I could hear?)
Maybe thats what's throwing me off...

[charred_heart]

http://www.ocean-moonshine.net/e142857369/

This is the best site I've seen for an explanation of the instincts/stackings.
thank you, I now figured out I am soc/sx

[nobarcode]

Sometimes I wonder if being Type 5 (-regardless of wings, for the moment), sx/sp stack, relates to having Se inferior, and 'excess' norepinephrine, and/or 'lower' levels of dopamine.

I don't really feel like explaining that in more detail. That was a mouthful, but football is on.... [any excuse would work, however] :)

I do wonder if anyone else has noticed that particular overall pattern.

*some kind of blank face wonderment smilie*

[cafe]

I voted strong sx. It is my instinct to bond people's souls to my own. The few people I deeply care about, at least. When relationships are shallow, I feel cast adrift. I'm not, however, a particularly touchy person, even with those I feel close to. If I do touch, it means my feeling of comfort with a person is very high.

[venerationOFrabbits]

Neat, I tested a type 4.

Very self-absorbed and never able to live up to my own expectations. That's me!

wing-sming

[Jennywocky]

so how does your sx instinct represent itself versus your introverted nature? in what situations comes your sx instinct out very strongly?

i always seem to "debrief" in one-on-one sessions with people after a larger group meeting, to either follow up on points made or to further clarify or to delve in deeper than the meeting allowed. in that sense the sx instinct is a great attribute

even though i am an introvert in the end, i get lots of energy from one-on-one discussion while group meetings are draining. i like how the enneagram instinct recognize this 'middle ground" between being a total social recluse and being a social butterfly.

Yeah, I hate the large social gatherings (they just suck the life out of me), but one-on-one time with someone in a DEEP personal conversation, where I feel we are being totally intimate, is like "soul sex" and I feel very recharged and at ease afterwards.

Like others have said, I see the "Social" INTP as the oddball; and the poll seems to suggest the same.

How does the "sexual" thing play out for me? I usually have this pervasive feeling of loneliness in the universe, no matter how much time I spend with someone else, no matter how good the conversation is.

At core, I still feel alone. I just can't get "close" enough to someone.

I consider it abhorrent to pry into someone else's life unless they are willing to share (that's like "soul rape" to me); but if someone is willing to talk deeply, I don't care what their personality is, I will plunge in as deep as they are willing to go with me.

I have no qualms about meeting someone on the deepest level of themselves and myself; and I still find myself surprised when people don't seem to want that or avoid deep meaningful relating.

(Hmm... am I emotionally/intellectually promiscuous then? :) Never thought of it that way before!)

Anyway, I think that's indicative of the Sexual variant.

[Jasz]

Yeah, I hate the large social gatherings (they just suck the life out of me), but one-on-one time with someone in a DEEP personal conversation, where I feel we are being totally intimate, is like "soul sex" and I feel very recharged and at ease afterwards.

Like others have said, I see the "Social" INTP as the oddball; and the poll seems to suggest the same.

How does the "sexual" thing play out for me? I usually have this pervasive feeling of loneliness in the universe, no matter how much time I spend with someone else, no matter how good the conversation is.

At core, I still feel alone. I just can't get "close" enough to someone.

I consider it abhorrent to pry into someone else's life unless they are willing to share (that's like "soul rape" to me); but if someone is willing to talk deeply, I don't care what their personality is, I will plunge in as deep as they are willing to go with me.

I have no qualms about meeting someone on the deepest level of themselves and myself; and I still find myself surprised when people don't seem to want that or avoid deep meaningful relating.

(Hmm... am I emotionally/intellectually promiscuous then? :) Never thought of it that way before!)

Anyway, I think that's indicative of the Sexual variant.


soul sex ... mmh, i like that term!

i share the same drive for intimacy and the same feeling of loneliness

[geniusndisguise]

soul sex ... mmh, i like that term!

i share the same drive for intimacy and the same feeling of loneliness

Me too. I also feel like I can't get close enough, but I don't try to with everyone. I also refrain from asking those deep personal questions (even some that aren't as personal as I think they may be).

It's interesting, I never test as an sx variant but I always feel like I can relate to 5 sx traits.

[Maxx]

like the person in the previous post, i'm enneagram 5w4, strong sx and this guides most of my relationships. i'm working very hard at "catching myself in the act" and choosing to try different ways of relating to and being in the world.

[TaylorS]

I'm a 5w4 sp/so.

[officehome&student]

Can't figure out whether im a 5w4 sx/sp or sx/so. What are the real differences?

[Alv]

I tested 5w4 sx and the description seems to fit me well.


http://www.ocean-moonshine.net/e142857369/according to this site I can associate myself with both sx/sp and sx/so. I'm not good at "exuding the most raw charisma and sexual energy" though, I fear.

[officehome&student]

I tested 5w4 sx and the description seems to fit me well.

according to this site I can associate myself with both sx/sp and sx/so. I'm not good at "exuding the most raw charisma and sexual energy" though, I fear.

Me neither, does that mean we are sx/sp? Well, i probably would be good at it given the right opportunity, but i think it would come as a big surprise to the people who know me.

[pangolin]

the poll isn't so clear. I have results from an enneagram test that basically rank my preferences, sp/so/sx, so i put down hight sp.

[Pooja]

For some reason, I kept testing as a 3w4 sx. But after reading the descriptions, I think that I'm more of a 5w4 or 4w5. I really can't tell the difference between those two.

[Alv]

Me neither, does that mean we are sx/sp? Well, i probably would be good at it given the right opportunity, but i think it would come as a big surprise to the people who know me.

Well, people who doesn't know me close enough found me quite sweet and charismatic. Sexy? I rarely meet anyone I want (or at least need) to appeal sexually to.
sx/sp doesn't sound right - I don't see described inner conflict between sp and sx tendencies in myself. I mostly feel like I can switch between sx/sp to sx/so depending on my mood. Is there option like that?

[Jasz]

for old times' sake i am going to bump this thread.

i remain perfectly content with my 5w4 sx/sp type, contradictory or not.

[pan_sonic_000]

5w4 sx/so

[Faust06]

5w4 sx, moderate so

[1104]

5w4 strong so, but because i too often pick the moderate option for its own sake.
i'm quiet but still extroverted.

[YHWH]

4w5 sp/sx

[kali]

5w4 sp/so

[Llewellyn]

maybe there is a drive to connect [,] not to be connected?
This sounds like something that could be true...
For me, I 'mostly' (= the few times) test sp, but i believe my sx is operating under the surface, tending to look for closer contact, nevertheless it ends up adding up to my sp in some way and might consist mostly of 5-curiosity, time I would awaken xs a bit more (and get more wise in it).

[bluebell]

I'm one of those rare beasties: 5w6, so/sx. For reals.

I am a compulsive networker. I get all the underlying politics at work (spanning external organisations, internationally, the lot) instinctively; it surprises me that others don't do this automatically. Fear of social rejection tends to rule me way too much. I know an awful lot of people, but 5ness means I withdraw completely when stressed. I want to be connected to people but simultaneously fear it.

[cripple]

It's a split between the 3, all weak.

[kble]

5w4 so/sp...I think..although on second thought I identify just a little more with sp/so. Yup, that would be consistent with my behaviour. Kind of confronting.

When I sense that my emotions have imposed an obligation on me...that's the part that clashes the most. Ironically, I then start to expect too much - I have no idea of how to handle expectations in that context. And then run away when that doesn't work out. At the slightest hint of it not working. And then reconfigure the importance of the relationship and immediately start detaching. It's quite an epic struggle at the heart of every kind of intimate relationship...it's enormously draining, the demands-independence duel. Casual social contacts and making "friends" on the other hand is not really a problem and I really need that social interaction. It's unproblematic and energising and I value it and the people that I socialise with quite a lot. But to put it bluntly: I can shake those people off in a metaphorical instant. I'm not sure whether I have any non-shakeable people in my life. A lot of people seem to be disgusted by that idea.

I think it's possibly more typical of INTJ fives than of INTPs. Kind of has the sociopath connection after all. :D Kind of Fi-ish too.


Self-pres/Social [for fives]

In the average health range, this instinctual stacking is warm, friendly, and loyal. They need their down time and have no problem spending time alone. They actually value it very much. They feel an energy drain from people’s demands on them. This instinctual stacking is what is described in most Enneagram books. The most notable and potentially frustrating thing about people of this type is the difficulty involved in getting really close to them. While they can usually handle themselves socially, they always hold back when it comes to intensity or intimacy in a relationship which can frustrate a sexual variant type. Others are aware that there is more going on beneath the surface, but it can’t really be accessed. These Fives are masters at minimizing their needs. Even though they shy away from intense personal relationships they often have a lot of intuition about others. Their detached level of personal involvement somehow brings objectivity to their insights. They can be the most practical of the instinctual stackings.

Their issues usually revolve around demands made on their time. This can become problematic in personal relationships. This subtype has an ideal vision of what a close or romantic relationship should be, but given their concerns for protecting their space and time and lacking the instinctual drive of a strong sexual instinct, energy just doesn’t flow in that direction. Because this subtype is good at minimizing their needs they can get along fine with few relationships or without a romantic partner. With the social instinct second in the stacking, they generally do find friends or colleagues and they may even be married, but the need to maintain their own time to pursue their interests is always a point of contention.

[Dark Razor]

I am 8w7 sp/so, as far as I can tell.

[edge walker]

5w6 sp/sx, with strong sx and effectively missing soc (not even weak).


Casual social contacts and making "friends" on the other hand is not really a problem and I really need that social interaction. It's unproblematic and energising and I value it and the people that I socialise with quite a lot. But to put it bluntly: I can shake those people off in a metaphorical instant. I'm not sure whether I have any non-shakeable people in my life. A lot of people seem to be disgusted by that idea.
I'm not, but it feels alien to me. I'm kind of the opposite: casual interactions feel fruitless and draining. I can go weeks without talking at another face, without even noticing. Not that I find it satisfying -- I long for connection -- it just doesn't cost me. And when I do attach to someone, there's no way I could shake them without dying a thousand deaths. I've never fully gotten over anyone I've lost, whether it was friendship or love.

[edge walker]

Here's some material on how it manifests when an instinct is last:

sp --- When the Self-Preservation instinct is least developed, attending to the basics of life does not come easily. It will not always occur to such individuals that they need to eat or sleep properly. Environmental factors will be relatively insignificant, and they will tend to lack the drive to accumulate wealth or property -- or even to care about such matters. Time and resource management will typically be neglected, often with seriously detrimental effects to their own careers, social life, and material well-being.

sx --- When the Attraction instinct is least developed, people may well feel that they have powerful energies, passions, and desires at work. They may know that there are things in life that "turn them on" that they want to explore or pursue, but they constantly procrastinate honouring these wishes. Attending to matters of intimacy and stimulation -- mental or emotional -- does not come naturally. Such individuals tend to avoid people, situations, or even colours or forms of music that are stimulating and may even have instant reactions to such things. ("I can't stand that loud music.") They may also tend to fall into routines, feeling uncomfortable if there is too much that is unfamiliar in their lives. They may feel socially involved with people, and may love others deeply, but feel unable to stay powerfully engaged for long even from spouses, friends and family members.

soc --- When the social instinct is least developed, attending to social endeavours and commitments does not come natually. Such individuals have difficulty seeing the point of creating and sustaining social connections, sometimes disregarding the importance of the opinions of others. Their sense of involvement with their community, at any scale, may be minimal. They often have little connection with people, feeling that they do not need others and that others do not need them. Thus, there may be frequent misunderstandings with allies and supporters, as well as friends and family members.

[kble]

I'm not, but it feels alien to me. I'm kind of the opposite: casual interactions feel fruitless and draining. I can go weeks without talking at another face, without even noticing. Not that I find it satisfying -- I long for connection -- it just doesn't cost me. And when I do attach to someone, there's no way I could shake them without dying a thousand deaths. I've never fully gotten over anyone I've lost, whether it was friendship or love.

Yeah, I think that's more typically INTP.



sx --- When the Attraction instinct is least developed, people may well feel that they have powerful energies, passions, and desires at work. They may know that there are things in life that "turn them on" that they want to explore or pursue, but they constantly procrastinate honouring these wishes. Attending to matters of intimacy and stimulation -- mental or emotional -- does not come naturally. Such individuals tend to avoid people, situations, or even colours or forms of music that are stimulating and may even have instant reactions to such things. ("I can't stand that loud music.") They may also tend to fall into routines, feeling uncomfortable if there is too much that is unfamiliar in their lives. They may feel socially involved with people, and may love others deeply, but feel unable to stay powerfully engaged for long even from spouses, friends and family members.


Hmm, I relate to the avoiding emotional stimulation by people part, but less to the other parts.

[edge walker]

Hmm, I relate to the avoiding emotional stimulation by people part, but less to the other parts.
Yeah, makes sense. It's hard to capture less than extreme sx-last in a description, because attraction is such a powerful instinct. People often overestimate their sx strength -- Enneagram novices trying to figure out their variant routinely place sx one slot too high. (They may also confuse it with sex drive... which it has very little to with.)

OTOH, FWIW, the soc-last description completely fits me. (FWIW, the social instinct refers not just to socialising but also networking, building alliances, creating commitments, perceiving hierarchies and such. To some extent one could call it the political instinct, esp. in soc-firsts.)

[kble]

Yeah, makes sense. It's hard to capture less than extreme sx-last in a description, because attraction is such a powerful instinct. People often overestimate their sx strength -- Enneagram novices trying to figure out their variant routinely place sx one slot too high. (They may also confuse it with sex drive... which it has very little to with.)

OTOH, FWIW, the soc-last description completely fits me. (FWIW, the social instinct refers not just to socialising but also networking, building alliances, creating commitments, perceiving hierarchies and such. To some extent one could call it the political instinct, esp. in soc-firsts.)

Yeah, I have no doubt that I'm sp and so first/second (those may flip flop a little) and sx last, though it isn't completely unused. I get a lot of satisfaction out of networking. Emotions+people are mostly stressful.

[Resonance]

ditto uytuun despite large Pness

ps, 5w6 so/sp

[bluebell]

I'm one of those rare beasties: 5w6, so/sx. For reals.

I am a compulsive networker. I get all the underlying politics at work (spanning external organisations, internationally, the lot) instinctively; it surprises me that others don't do this automatically. Fear of social rejection tends to rule me way too much. I know an awful lot of people, but 5ness means I withdraw completely when stressed. I want to be connected to people but simultaneously fear it.

Hmm. I started to overthink this because of:


Here's some material on how it manifests when an instinct is last:

sp --- When the Self-Preservation instinct is least developed, attending to the basics of life does not come easily. It will not always occur to such individuals that they need to eat or sleep properly. Environmental factors will be relatively insignificant, and they will tend to lack the drive to accumulate wealth or property -- or even to care about such matters. Time and resource management will typically be neglected, often with seriously detrimental effects to their own careers, social life, and material well-being.

sx --- When the Attraction instinct is least developed, people may well feel that they have powerful energies, passions, and desires at work. They may know that there are things in life that "turn them on" that they want to explore or pursue, but they constantly procrastinate honouring these wishes. Attending to matters of intimacy and stimulation -- mental or emotional -- does not come naturally. Such individuals tend to avoid people, situations, or even colours or forms of music that are stimulating and may even have instant reactions to such things. ("I can't stand that loud music.") They may also tend to fall into routines, feeling uncomfortable if there is too much that is unfamiliar in their lives. They may feel socially involved with people, and may love others deeply, but feel unable to stay powerfully engaged for long even from spouses, friends and family members.



I relate more to sx last than sp last with those descriptions. But from here (http://www.ocean-moonshine.net/e142857369/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=33&MMN_position=86:80), I don't really relate to so/sp at all. That seems way too detached and somewhat alien. However, I do completely relate to this:


Social/Sexual

When reasonably healthy, people of this subtype can be very engaging (for a Five). They smile a lot and are often friendly. Their energy is quite different from the social/self-pres subtype because both the social and sexual energies push outwards, and so partly balance out some of the withdrawing tendencies of the Five. This doesn't mean that people of this subtype are necessarily any healthier however. The outgoing energy is not the result of true integration to Eight but is the result of the compulsive pull of the instincts.

People of this subtype are usually warm and when feeling secure are likely to let people in and even to initiate contact. When they feel insecure however, they can actually go to the other extreme and be very shy. For this reason, people of this subtype could easily be mistyped; those Fives who withdraw from social contact because of feelings of insecurity, might not seem like social subtypes at all. It might not be obvious that they actually very much desire contact. For people of this subtype, the social instinct actually works as a release value for the sexual component. When relaxed and comfortable with others, the sexual instinct can easily be seen.

People of this subtype are very aware of how they "fit in", and also experience the sexual drive of wanting to connect with intimates. Like other social/sexual subtypes, they have the tendency to cultivate many relationships. They want to be liked by everyone, but being Fives they also tend to hold a part of themselves back for fear of rejection or of being overwhelmed by the demands of the relationship. This subtype of Five is more likely to fear rejection than the other subtypes of Five. Because both of the dominant instincts are focused on people, any failure in the realm of interpersonal relationships triggers a fear that there is no safety in the world.

Personality systems like the Enneagram function as tool to help this subtype of Five to feel safe in the world. People of this subtype tend to think that the more they understand people, the less chance they have of being rejected. This tends to be a blind spot for people of this subtype as they don't see that what will actually help them to become healthier is gaining more life experience. This will help them to see that their world will not come to an end with a little rejection.


FWIW, the social instinct refers not just to socialising but also networking, building alliances, creating commitments, perceiving hierarchies and such. To some extent one could call it the political instinct, esp. in soc-firsts.

Yep, pretty much. Reading political undercurrents with people we deal with outside of work comes as naturally to me as breathing, and there are maybe 50 to 100 people I interact with either intensively or sporadically over the space of any one year. I dislike social commitments btw, but everything else rings true.


Because my post isn't long enough already, something I wrote in my blag last year about being so/sx at work:

Last year when I first started getting into Enneagram at a shallow level, I thought I was sp (self-preservation). But, it doesn't really capture what I'm really like IRL. I'd noticed for a while doing the online MBTI tests and a couple of personality tests I had to do at work that even though I test as a heavy introvert, I always answer 'wide circle of friends and acquaintances' rather than the usual introvert answer of 'a couple of close friends'. I have no close friends IRL, but there are about 30 or 40 people I could ring and say come over for dinner or lets go out for coffee (which I rarely do, but it's always there as an option and I often have low-grade background guilt that I so rarely do this).

I also became aware sometime last year that perceived rejection from anyone was the one thing that was guaranteed to send me into a rapid severe downward spiral. I've had to work really hard at trying to overcome that, but it still rears its ugly head at times and I tend to need external feedback to snap out of it. Also, looking back, this makes sense of the endless complaints in my blog about being frustrated about lack of depth and connection with various friends but at the same time, holding myself back. That's changed a bit since I moved out and it's been good.

But the main reason why this so/sx rings true is how I am at work. I am a compulsive networker. A couple of years ago at work (before our organisation expanded and restructured a gazillion times), I used to know about 100+ (maybe 200? I can't remember now) people by name. I had a contact in most teams and knew what networks they were tapped into. I was always the go-to person in my team if someone needed a contact in a particular area, and as well as giving them a name, I'd also give a potted bio, including key weaknesses and strengths, how trustworthy/reliable the person was and any important personality clashes that my colleague needed to be aware of when talking to the contact. This was all in my head, never needed to look any of this up or write it down anywhere, except for phone numbers.

For various reasons (mostly the gazillion restructures and high staff turnover, plus working off-site for 18+ months until recently), I've now lost most of those internal networks. But, thinking about it, it's also because the projects I work on these days are very externally focussed. I still do the compulsive networking and connecting people who need to be connected to progress their work but only outside my organisation, or occasionally within my team.

I find it really easy to pick up the politics internally and externally with the various organisations we interact with - how to influence, what to avoid, how to progress multiple agendas at once by various actions, setting things up now to allow progress a few years down the track for stuff that I can see looming on the horizon etc. This is despite being fairly clueless with interpersonal skills (I've had to work really hard at that in order to be able to convert abstract political knowledge into concrete outcomes). My boss has a very similar modus operandi, although with better people skills so she makes more progress than I do, lol. (if I get stuck, she steps in and smooths things over for me) In the past, I was too junior and unconfident to influence things directly, but I always knew who was the key person to have a quiet word to so that whatever needed to happen would happen. Behind the scenes ftw.

And I realised a couple of weeks ago that I tend to view a lot of my projects as a world-wide abstract multi-dimensional chess game... It's taken a while to realise/get comfortable with the idea that I'm no longer behind the scenes but now explicitly one of the chess pieces to also move within the game.

[edge walker]

I relate more to sx last than sp last with those descriptions. But from here (http://www.ocean-moonshine.net/e142857369/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=33&MMN_position=86:80), I don't really relate to so/sp at all.
To me your sx energy always felt quite light but perceptible. That would also imply that your sp instinct, though last, isn't crowded out.

And many soc/sx.s seem to take a pragmatic approach to sp matters, paradoxically aided by the fact that unlike sp-firsts (esp. sp/sx.s), they don't have any cognitive dissonance around sp upsets. When it comes to taking proper care of myself, the relatively-minor upsets I'd have to endure along the way are apt to make me procrastinate. But freedom's just another word for "nothing to lose"...

So it seems sensible to me that you'd not necessarily relate to sp-last over sx-last.

[bluebell]

To me your sx energy always felt quite light but perceptible. That would also imply that your sp instinct, though last, isn't crowded out.

And many soc/sx.s seem to take a pragmatic approach to sp matters, paradoxically aided by the fact that unlike sp-firsts (esp. sp/sx.s), they don't have any cognitive dissonance around sp upsets. When it comes to taking proper care of myself, the relatively-minor upsets I'd have to endure along the way are apt to make me procrastinate. But freedom's just another word for "nothing to lose"...

So it seems sensible to me that you'd not necessarily relate to sp-last over sx-last.

Thanks, that makes sense. :)