Who is going to be the next International "Bad Guy"

[Groty]

The US Government is great at creating enemies. They are helping or creating one now, just for the next generation. I'm trying to figure out who it is going to be.

Let's see, past fun:

Ho Chi Minh - During WWII, US soldiers sent to Viet Nam to support the local effort against the Japanese found Ho Chi Minh on his death bed. Some kind of viral infection or something. Giap was with him. Fortunately, the US soldiers had the medical equipment to save his life. Then they taught him battle tactics...

Iranian Government - What fun! US helps to over throw a democratically elected government, putting the Shah in power. After the fall of Saigon, Tehran had the largest US embassy in the world. Shah is overthrown, giving rise to a radical regime.

Noriega - Worked for the CIA. Doing what? Then he bit the hand that fed him and Bush unleashed the wrath of American iron and advanced weaponry on his sliver of land. Just to catch him and put him in a country club with bars.

Saddam Hussein - The US needed someone to fight the Iranians. Rummy and Co. helped advance his military might, as long as he fought his neighbors. Bio and chem weapons found their way into his hands somehow??

Osama Bin Laden - Went to Afghanistan to kick out the Soviets. The US liked him for that, helped him buy arms and everything. After the Soviet defeat, he goes home to Saudi Arabia to work with his family. He wakes up one morning to find US military personnel taking up positions in his country. He has a new enemy.

Who's next?

I'm kinda leaning toward Pervez Musharraf. Coup d'etat to take power. Has nukes, probably bios and chems. Was on the US's bad guy list until he agreed to take boat loads of cash to help track down Bin Laden.

[booyalab]

The US Government is great at creating enemies. They are helping or creating one now, just for the next generation. I'm trying to figure out who it is going to be.

Let's see, past fun:

Ho Chi Minh - During WWII, US soldiers sent to Viet Nam to support the local effort against the Japanese found Ho Chi Minh on his death bed. Some kind of viral infection or something. Giap was with him. Fortunately, the US soldiers had the medical equipment to save his life. Then they taught him battle tactics...

Iranian Government - What fun! US helps to over throw a democratically elected government, putting the Shah in power. After the fall of Saigon, Tehran had the largest US embassy in the world. Shah is overthrown, giving rise to a radical regime.

Noriega - Worked for the CIA. Doing what? Then he bit the hand that fed him and Bush unleashed the wrath of American iron and advanced weaponry on his sliver of land. Just to catch him and put him in a country club with bars.

Saddam Hussein - The US needed someone to fight the Iranians. Rummy and Co. helped advance his military might, as long as he fought his neighbors. Bio and chem weapons found their way into his hands somehow??

Osama Bin Laden - Went to Afghanistan to kick out the Soviets. The US liked him for that, helped him buy arms and everything. After the Soviet defeat, he goes home to Saudi Arabia to work with his family. He wakes up one morning to find US military personnel taking up positions in his country. He has a new enemy.

Who's next?

I'm kinda leaning toward Pervez Musharraf. Coup d'etat to take power. Has nukes, probably bios and chems. Was on the US's bad guy list until he agreed to take boat loads of cash to help track down Bin Laden.

In all of these cases, we prioritized one bad guy over the other, future, bad guy..and so used the future bad guy to our advantage in overthrowing the current one..or just helped him out because he wasn't a threat at the time. This isn't some grand conspiracy or hack-job. Btw, we dont 'create' any bad guys. There's this little thing called free will.

[Groty]

In all of these cases, we prioritized one bad guy over the other, future, bad guy..and so used the future bad guy to our advantage in overthrowing the current one..or just helped him out because he wasn't a threat at the time. This isn't some grand conspiracy or hack-job. Btw, we dont 'create' any bad guys. There's this little thing called free will.

Okay, maybe "creating" was a bad term.

How about "setting the stage".

Or...

Leaving behind a giant, steaming pile of manure, primed for cultivating the seeds of anger and greed.

[crule81]

Playing one undesirable regime against a more undesirable regime is hardly new or unique to the US.
The Roman Empire was able to last 1,500 years in part because they consistently paid off one barbarian tribe to attack another more immediate and dangerous barbarian threat.
Frankly, I think it is a sound strategy if managed correctly and consistently.

[Groty]

But Rome was an Empire...

[crule81]

But Rome was an Empire...

. . . and . . .

[Groty]

I always considered Empire's to be more about conquer and assimilate.

Doodling in a foreign country's internal affairs without expecting some kind of nasty side effect seems like policy. I just think that we are stuck in an endless loop. When will it end?

I have a sick theory that it would take an attack of an alien race to make the world's populous live happily together. The lowest common denominator would finally be the most important thing. We're all human!

[crule81]

But Rome didn't buy off barbarians to fight one another to conquer and assimilate them, but merely to protect their border.

[Claverhouse]

I think it's more a case of 'permanent revolution' in the form of 'endless cock-ups':

Post War, and with Roosevelt's ambition of destroying the British Empire accomplished ( I don't care much, so don't assume anything here ), both the communist-infiltrated, left inspired State Dept. & the CIA began interfering all over the world and, in addition to the time-honoured tradition of installing governments who will kowtow to American Business, decided to chuck out the old traditional local rulers. They did this in:

1/ Vietnam, getting rid of the Emperor Bao

2/ Libya, getting rid of King Idris

3/ Iraq, getting rid of the Hashemites

amongst others. You may notice that they acclaimed the new regimes, and later decided that the leaders and peoples of those countries were the spawn of Satan.

Some people lay up trouble for themselves as sure as night follows day.



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[paladinoflunaria]

Eastasia has always been Oceania's enemy...

[PsiKik]

Playing one undesirable regime against a more undesirable regime is hardly new or unique to the US.
The Roman Empire was able to last 1,500 years in part because they consistently paid off one barbarian tribe to attack another more immediate and dangerous barbarian threat.
Frankly, I think it is a sound strategy if managed correctly and consistently.

This 'sound strategy' always seems to blow up in our faces, the CIA term for it is 'blowback'.
Just because this practice is age old does not mean it is good strategy.

Eventually the barbarians overran Rome.

[int]

Every empire fails. America is an empire. America will fail.
Although probably not in our lifetimes.

And I say that as a patriot, whatever that means. :rofl:

The neocon movement will put us as a power in Iraq, then branching out from there with an attempt to establish "democracy" and "liberty" in the Mideast.

We will keep pursuing this although it will fail (aka "success" in the neocons minds) until our inevitable demise.

Canada and Mexico will have learned and rule from there.

:rofl: or, :ph34r: ?? - I can't decide. :mellow: :blink: :( :nerd: :mellow:

[int]

http://www.newamericancentury.org/ <--- Scary. Read the docs. Look at the names attached.

[Groty]

http://www.newamericancentury.org/ <--- Scary. Read the docs. Look at the names attached.

That's scary! Just showed it to my British friend who's going home this weekend. Then sent to a friend in Manila.

[jimkopelli]

Eastasia has always been Oceania's enemy...
Pitting both sides againgst the middle, eh?

[Werdna]

Eastasia has always been Oceania's enemy...

This is a nice site...
http://www.studentsfororwell.org/

What will happen to America when it runs out of enemies to fight?

[PsiKik]

What will happen to America when it runs out of enemies to fight?

There always has to be an enemy, otherwise those nice people in the arms
trade wouldn't be able to make an honest living.
Besides,having enemies helps scare the population into following your agenda.
Nope, having enemies too useful.

[mgb]

Every empire fails. America is an empire. America will fail.
Although probably not in our lifetimes.

And I say that as a patriot, whatever that means. :rofl:

The neocon movement will put us as a power in Iraq, then branching out from there with an attempt to establish "democracy" and "liberty" in the Mideast.

We will keep pursuing this although it will fail (aka "success" in the neocons minds) until our inevitable demise.

Canada and Mexico will have learned and rule from there.



I think you are wrong about the fall of the US Empire I think you will see it fall in your lifetime. It is already starting.

The US is 7 trillion in debt right now. 1/3 of that debt is to asian countries, largely China.

The US army is becoming over-stretched. Its pretty obvious that they can't attack another country without pulling out of Iraq or instituting a draft, neither of which they are prepared to do. It will be pretty hard to back up another war with force. Iran and N. Korea are proving to be greater threats to world (US) security than Iraq was. Both have nukes and either one could use them right now or worse give them to terrorists to bring into the US (which isn't too hard to do given the 4000 people a day crossing the border in the south).

Really they won't, the threat is enough. The US government is spending untold billions on security. Bush wants to add a missile defense system. I am sure you can get those a bargain basement prices.

As the US gets more in debt Europe is considering dropping the dollar standard and using the Euro. It is up over $1.30 US. If the Euro becomes the main currency in the world there will be a mass dollar sell-off. Because the US has a high net trade deficit that will hurt big time.

And China is just sitting and waiting. They are building up the value of their yuan by investing globally and being invest in.

The wartime economy is going to kill the US. And it started at the start of the cold war. Russia fell but China didn't.

As for the middle east, the US will have to get rid of Islam to bring peace and democracy and liberty there. Not going to happen. Iraq was push over compared to Iran. It is mountainous and is well into the nuclear capability process. And every muslim country that the US attacks will grow the global terror network. Its pretty scary really.

Canada won't take over. We are too weak. We do have a lot of natural resources. Mexico is a source for cheap labour and that won't change. As the lives of the average Chinese improves they will start looking abroad to outsource cheap labour, probably South America and Africa. Their countries economies have been decimated by the World Bank and IMF. They will be looking for any hand outs they can get.

That's just what I think though, open to a lot of interpretation I hope.