How Do We Deal With The Next Four Years?

[INTrPosr]

Usually, the external world bothers me little. While everyone is walking around in chaos, I glide through the rubbish with a shit eating grin on my face.:D However, the past four years really screwed with me economically.

Time for a change and I am seriously thinking about risking consultant work. Anyone else truly effected by Bush?

[Sam172]

Yeah, I nearly fell into one a couple of days ago ¬_¬

Hopefully I won't be effected over here :D....but we all know what Blair is like with following Bush...

[Groty]

Usually, the external world bothers me little. While everyone is walking around in chaos, I glide through the rubbish with a shit eating grin on my face.:D However, the past four years really screwed with me economically.

Time for a change and I am seriously thinking about risking consultant work. Anyone else truly effected by Bush?

Ho hum. Let's see. Gas is $2.00 a gallon. My annual 2% "Cost Of Living" adjustment was killed by the increase in my Healthcare benefits. I'm actually netting less than last year. My stock options are worth shit. And I am getting really annoyed with Globalization. Requesting technology work to be done by personnel in India for a system used in Manila. I miss the good ole days of walking around the office, speaking face to face with people, to get things done.

[Nighthawk]

I am getting really annoyed with Globalization. Requesting technology work to be done by personnel in India for a system used in Manila. I miss the good ole days of walking around the office, speaking face to face with people, to get things done.

Globalization irritates the hell out of me too. No way to compete with software engineers who will do the same work for $10 an hour. Some colleagues actually tried to go work in India, to take advantage of the lower cost of living there. Guess what? The Indian government will not let foreign nationals work there, unless there are unusual circumstances. The US, on the other hand, has no problem letting foreign nationals do the work ... on or off shore.

Sadly, neither Kerry nor Bush adequately addressed the outsourcing and job loss issues. Kerry's voting record has been consistently pro-outsourcing. Bush's plan to retrain people at community colleges is laughable for my situation. I have a masters degree ... how the hell am I going to retrain at a community college? How is somebody with a bachelor's degree going to do that?

My opinion is that nobody in our government is going to help us with outsourcing or protect us from the negative impact of globalization. There is just too much money in it for big business. Its a done deal and we have to adapt or die. Personally, I'm looking at other options to try to get me out of the tech area altogether over the next few years.

[Lucas]

How Do We Deal With The Next Four Years?

I'm moving to Chile for a year. I still need to figure out what to do about the following three years though.

[InsurgentAlpha]

I predict this Administration's dirty business will come to light sometime in the next four years and they will be kicked out... or even better tried in court.

[booyalab]

It's funny how much responsibility people attribute to the president for the economy, good or bad.

[Melody]

yeah
it is just as good that bush got reelected

i am pro outsourcing for some reason

i think because too many fuckheads are in the tech area
with an increase in outsourcing
those fuckheads will not get jobs
and will be filtered out
and will not enter the tech area to begin with
thereby letting the nonfuckheads get payed decently

if ur job is being exported
something tells me ur job sucks

[SheepDog]

You've got some logic bugs there, Melody. In supply and demand terms, outsourcing decreases the demand for workers (locally), and because of the point made by Nighthawk above, does little to reduce the supply of potential employees. Outsourcing means you'll be making less, not more.

And there are plenty of competent IT workers in my area that are unemployed/underemployed. It's gone way beyond reversing the hype of the dot-com bubble.

[edit: logic bug of my own]

[crule81]

I used to think attorneys were immune to outsourcing and that, eventually, everyone in American would be an attorney, management, civil servant, or service-industry worker. I read that they are now outsourcing legal researching to companies in India. But it really won't bother me too much if my job gets outsourced because I hate it. Maybe someday we could outsource the government and the various bureaucracies too.

[booyalab]

I used to think attorneys were immune to outsourcing and that, eventually, everyone in American would be an attorney, management, civil servant, or service-industry worker. I read that they are now outsourcing legal researching to companies in India. But it really won't bother me too much if my job gets outsourced because I hate it. Maybe someday we could outsource the government and the various bureaucracies too.

that well-meaning revenge would be ultimately shooting ourselves in the foot :/

[Birdsnest]

Outsourcing costs less, the employer doesn't have to pay for insurance, they get the most up to date, most highly educated people, and save money by not having to pay so many of their own or educate their own. Thats all, the company wins by paying less for more, the loyal employees that have served years of time end up losing.

Because of Bush, they are trying to consolidate a lot of government and have phased out most of our computer specialists, (my last boyfriend was one of them), and indeed, they have been trying to phase out human resources too. Yep, we've been affected. When Clinton was in, everything was better off.

[Melody]

You've got some logic bugs there, Melody. In supply and demand terms, outsourcing decreases the demand for workers (locally), and because of the point made by Nighthawk above, does little to reduce the supply of potential employees. Outsourcing means you'll be making less, not more.

And there are plenty of competent IT workers in my area that are unemployed/underemployed. It's gone way beyond reversing the hype of the dot-com bubble.

[edit: logic bug of my own]

of course it decreases the demand for workers
that is what i want

as i said

too many fuckheads in this field
i dont want to work with them

someone here said they r planning on moving out of the field
it is this aura that will spread
this will reduce the supply cuz
if ppl recognize the tech field is not so hot
they wont try to get tech degrees in the first place

i am not certain what will happen to the pay
but i guess what i meant is it will stabalize to a 'true' value
because ppl have been riding the .com wave
and atm idiots are payed too much

[Nighthawk]

too many fuckheads in this field
i dont want to work with them

someone here said they r planning on moving out of the field
it is this aura that will spread


So ... are you saying that I'm one of those fuckheads? ;)

I'm leaving partly because I don't think the tech field will ever recover to its former self. I think it will go the way of the other industries that were outsourced and never return. The other reason I'm leaving is that I'm getting too old for the field. Societal bias indicates that only people below the age of 35 know anything about technology ... and companies hire accordingly. My only other option is tech management, which I despise.

You have a point about the field thinning. Many of the pretenders who were hired simply because they could spell j-a-v-a are no longer around.

[Nighthawk]

Outsourcing costs less, the employer doesn't have to pay for insurance, they get the most up to date, most highly educated people, and save money by not having to pay so many of their own or educate their own.

Hmmmm ... my employer must have missed the "most highly educated" part. We're getting some plant life here.

[Groty]

I used to think attorneys were immune to outsourcing ... I read that they are now outsourcing legal researching to companies in India.

There lies the problem. It's largely professional entry-level jobs they are outsourcing. Legal researchers, investment research, accounting, and programming.

So, in 30 years corporations will be faced with a bigger problem. Either pay outrageous sums of money to hire a VP of Finance that actually has experience, or move the whole damned company offshore. Supply and Demand.

[SheepDog]

Melody, I think what you're saying will be the case eventually, but it will be quite a while.

[Claverhouse]

Melody may be one of the first casualties...



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Melody]

:P

im gonna have a bachelor's in electronics engineering
a phd in physics
and either a minor or bachelors in mathematics

not just that
these degrees and titles will actually have meaning when attached to my name
cuz im such a genius

this may be a reason why i am happy about outsourcing; it wont affect me directly; and there will be technically adept people working under me

[EternalCynic]

For all the United States Liberals here, this website has the solution ;)
http://www.marryanamerican.ca (Thanks to Dengarm for the link, hehe)




Ho hum. Let's see. Gas is $2.00 a gallon.

2 bucks? Lucky, it's around $2.55 here! (It's killin' me :( ). I can only hope there will be a little compromise this time around...

[Melody]

after a lot of strenuous and intelligent analysis and calculation

i think bush is good

but he doubts himself

and lets his underlings do 2much of the thinking

[Groty]

For all the United States Liberals here, this website has the solution ;)
http://www.marryanamerican.ca (Thanks to Dengarm for the link, hehe)




Ho hum. Let's see. Gas is $2.00 a gallon.

2 bucks? Lucky, it's around $2.55 here! (It's killin' me :( ). I can only hope there will be a little compromise this time around...

EC, California is on the leading edge of inflation. I would expect the San Fran/Oakland region to be pushing $3.00 a gallon for 87 at this point. I live in VA. I travel to NY and CT often. I am used to finding gas prices up there to be $.20 to $.25 more. I was speaking to one of my friends today and their prices are only $.15 more a gallon.

Odd trend. How are the prices out there? I fortunately live only a mile from my office now. Grocery stores and everthing else is just as close. Used to live 20 miles away from my job and shopping district, can't imagine the pain of that now!

[Groty]

after a lot of strenuous and intelligent analysis and calculation

i think bush is good

but he doubts himself

and lets his underlings do 2much of the thinking


Melody, I agree with you on the absurdness of the skillset vs. compensation of techs now. I am a tech, but odd. I can sit at a computer and navigate DOS command line with great comfort. I don't program much anymore, manage it instead. Most techs, older than me too, are inept when it comes to basic concepts of computing.

On the issue of Bush vs. Kerry. I am Libertarian. I live my life and it's no one else's business. I don't know who Kerry would have chosen for his cabinet. I admit that I feel safer with the (IMOP) level-headed likes of Condy Rice and Colin Powell in the cabinet. Two analytical people that I believe are non-partison. Unfortunately, I don't expect them to be with the administration a year from now.

[Groty]

Okay, one more thing about my earlier comments.

My coworker, more like cohort, is the bread winner in her family. Three children and a handicapped husband.

It is that time of year to configure our Health benefits. We got screwed this year. Apparently "they" were using vaseline. This time it's a dry screw (Sorry, move this comment to Mature if I'm offensive). I haven't hit my account yet, but her Health benefits package for next year is insane! This year she paid $10k for her families coverage. The exact same coverage, the default when you login to configure, is $14,000 for next year! WTF!

God bless Ahhhhh... Uh, err, can I still go to Canada to get a Flu shot?

[gypseymothlee]

Let's see... another four years of probably not being able to find a job in my field, and no health insurance because the company I'm so lucky to be working for hires in all the people on my level as part time employees (most of us work over 40 hours a week) so they don't have to give us benefits like health insurance.
My way of dealing with the next four years? Well... we did just pass a tax to help the mentally ill in my county... I like padded rooms...

[Hypnos]

a) http://turbine.slackworks.com/robots/mark/new_map.jpg

b) I wouldn't mind living in a nation of CEOs -- the Belgians and Luxembourgers are doing well living in nations of anonymous bureaucrats. The problem is that smart and/or motivated people move here and kick ass, but none of the slackers get kicked out.

[Division56]

Ok, we don't really like talking about kicking slackers out here because, well... WE'RE ALL INTPS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!


It's not we're known for our work ethic.

[Hypnos]

Ok, we don't really like talking about kicking slackers out here because, well... WE'RE ALL INTPS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!


It's not we're known for our work ethic.

Irrelevant.

[KentOhio]

I've had a great past four years. But you all like to be negative, so I'll keep it to myself.

[cloakable]

I haven't, and I live in England. How can you support such a blatant moron? He's fucked the enviroment, the economy, world relations, is there something he hasn't fucked? And now he's in for another four years. I hate to say this, but I hope Bush gets killed by some nutjob terrorist. The reputation of America may not survive if he dosen't. And the enviroment.

[Division56]

Yeah, great, turn him into a martyr.

[cloakable]

Then how do you propose to stop him fucking the world like it's his personal blow up doll?

[Division56]

Then how do you propose to stop him fucking the world like it's his personal blow up doll?


Impeachment is the only thing I can think of. Or a really big scandal.

[Groty]

Or maybe he'll get toasted and choke on something bigger than a pretzel.

[Division56]

Or maybe he'll get toasted and choke on something bigger than a pretzel.


The way I look at it, iany way he dies, (barring him dying during intercourse with a hunky secret service guard) he will end up a martyr.

[Division56]

Or maybe he'll get toasted and choke on something bigger than a pretzel.


The way I look at it, iany way he dies, (barring him dying during intercourse with a hunky secret service guard) he will end up a martyr.


I take that back, I can see ways for them to turn him into a martyr, even if he did that.

[Groty]

Or maybe he'll get toasted and choke on something bigger than a pretzel.


The way I look at it, iany way he dies, (barring him dying during intercourse with a hunky secret service guard) he will end up a martyr.


I take that back, I can see ways for them to turn him into a martyr, even if he did that.

Yeah, I am in agreement. Look at JFK.

[BritainOphira]

Or maybe he'll get toasted and choke on something bigger than a pretzel.


The way I look at it, iany way he dies, (barring him dying during intercourse with a hunky secret service guard) he will end up a martyr.

If he dies, we get Cheney, which is worse. I realize that he is running the country now anyway, but at least we don't have to stare at him every night on the news.

[booyalab]

Or maybe he'll get toasted and choke on something bigger than a pretzel.


The way I look at it, iany way he dies, (barring him dying during intercourse with a hunky secret service guard) he will end up a martyr.

If he dies, we get Cheney, which is worse. I realize that he is running the country now anyway, but at least we don't have to stare at him every night on the news.

Cheney rules, biatch. :P ;)

[Groty]

Cheney rules, biatch. :P ;)

:rofl:

[Claverhouse]

I hate to say this, but I hope Bush gets killed by some nutjob terrorist.

This is immoral: you should never qualify a sincere statement.



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[BritainOphira]

Cheney rules, biatch. :P ;)

Biatch? Are we back in the fifth grade? :huh: :rofl:

[lauriep]

Removed

[Darren]

Let's see... no health insurance because the company I'm so lucky to be working for hires in all the people on my level as part time employees (most of us work over 40 hours a week) so they don't have to give us benefits like health insurance. ...

:hello:
Oh Canada, our home and native land..........!

I hate to be smug. I feel sorry for Democrats this week, sorry that they have to share a country with so many people who seem a few cards short of a full deck.

You could always move to Canada! We're looking for about 250,000 immigrants this year, come on up!

(Or, the North East and the West Coast could succede and join us! We'll send you Alberta in exchange).

Oh yes, on page 17 of the newspaper today, another province just legalized gay marriage. That's how big of a deal gay marriage is up here, it only makes page 17.

Darren

[Claverhouse]

Oh yes, on page 17 of the newspaper today, another province just legalized gay marriage. That's how big of a deal gay marriage is up here, it only makes page 17.

I thought Canada had had it for quite a while; and a few divorces...

Not that I agree with it or anything: it seems silly for gays to commit to a binding relationship just because straights do; but basically I just don't care. It's probably better they do that than remain ever frustrated because they'll never touch each other solely because they can't get married.

;P


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Division56]

Oh yes, on page 17 of the newspaper today, another province just legalized gay marriage. That's how big of a deal gay marriage is up here, it only makes page 17.

I thought Canada had had it for quite a while; and a few divorces...

Not that I agree with it or anything: it seems silly for gays to commit to a binding relationship just because straights do; but basically I just don't care. It's probably better they do that than remain ever frustrated because they'll never touch each other solely because they can't get married.

;P


Claverhouse :ph34r:


Ahem, it's about much more than "just because straights do". First of all, it is a symbol of commitment, I hear some SJs are very into that... Second, it protects the couple legally. I can't tell you how many gay people have been put on the streets because their partner dies and some assholish family member contests their will. Third, it provides tax breaks that are beneficial (would Bush still advocate tax breaks for the married if it meant also encouraging same sex marriages?).


I could go on, but I think you get my point. :nerd:

[cloakable]

I hate to say this, but I hope Bush gets killed by some nutjob terrorist.

This is immoral: you should never qualify a sincere statement.



Claverhouse :ph34r:

but I'm not a moralist. I call them as I see them.

[songbird36]

I hate to say this, but I hope Bush gets killed by some nutjob terrorist.

This is immoral: you should never qualify a sincere statement.



Claverhouse :ph34r:

but I'm not a moralist. I call them as I see them.

If the English "cognito" instead of "cogito" themselves into existence then maybe they have something to learn from that Frenchman who shall remain nameless..

I hate to say it but..cognito sounds like a Bush-ism

:D

[Claverhouse]

I hate to say this, but I hope Bush gets killed by some nutjob terrorist.

This is immoral: you should never qualify a sincere statement.



Claverhouse :ph34r:

but I'm not a moralist. I call them as I see them.

Then you should regret nothing a la the great Edith.

Anyway the worry over people being acclaimed as martyrs is overdone. As when IRA killers were starving themselves, someone pointed out that if they needed martyrs that much, we could always ensure they got them.



Claverhouse :ph34r: