Election results

[Sackanaka]

Am I the only one who is pissed at the outcome of the elections?
I'll first state that I am not really into politics, since everthing's so wishy-washy and someone's gonna suffer either way. If I had to choose at gunpoint, I'd choose the Democratic side, but that's not why I'm pissed.
I am against Dumb. I don't think I'd have much gripe if the Republican candidate was very professional and could develop good arguments. Bush didn't seem to impress anyone with his logic and tact. Before the criticism comes, I do know that I am being biased about the whole thing, that I don't know the "whole picture", etc. etc. Of course I don't, but that's why it's in the Rants and Raves section.
Sure, Bush was put in a tough situation and he is n00b at English. Sure he is doing what he believes is right, and at least he's putting his feet down on issues whereas Kerry can pretty iffy about stuff. The thing is, at least with Kerry we don't know he's going to do dumb things. We've had 4 years of Bush with enough cases to show his inadequacy to deal with issues in an optimal manner. What, all humans make mistakes and you can't please everyone? I think if you're President of the mufukin USA, you should at least be able to do the job without half the world thinking you're an evil dumbass. My friend went to South America over the summer, and the biggest joke was Bush.
Also, I'm not gonna make any judgment here, but Washington D.C., the place where a big chunk of US politics take place and where I assume the people who know what's what, had a Kerry voter turnout of 90%, Bush only 9%. Unless there's a damn huge number of Democrats outweighing Republicans at DC, even though the last 4 years were run under a dominantly Republican party, or unless the Democrats decided to mob and rope the majority of Republicans and scare the rest out with their crazy liberal powers, I assume quite a bit Republicans voted for Kerry as well. Just a thought.... that pissed me off.
Open to criticism... I guess.

[Arioch]

God I hope the elections were rigged and they find out. God I hope so.

*sigh* Things could be worse... I don't dare contemplate how but they could.

[PsiKik]

You're not the only one pissed.

Bush will go on about having a 'mandate' to continue his neocon agenda, war on science etc etc.

I think Bush is just a figurehead, the real decisions are made by Cheney and God only knows what other rightwing, plutocrat nutjobs.



He was chosen as the figurehead because he's the kind of guy that the average Joe can identify with most easily - friendly, affable, folksy, not-thinking too much, but making firm decisions based on 'gut' feeling.

see this essay about the president as a simulacrum.
http://www.psicopolis.com/Psipol/flatpers.htm

[Strephonade]

Whenever Bush makes a major public appearance, he always seems willing to talk about topics familiar to a lot of American people, and in a way that's accessible--namely, through emotions. I still don't really understand why this is such a powerful way to address issues with global impact, or why it should even work, but it seems to. He doesn't even have to say what his position actually is. He's just affable, with a touch of blustery thrown in for effect.

[Claverhouse]

Well, the 'Surprise' helped, what with old Osama, wild-eyed and blinking at the light, coming out of his cave to recommend Kerry...

Still, what I don't get is the idea of a great mandate having been decisively given. Ignoring the glitches with the voting systems and little localised schemes of disenfranchisement, 40% of the people couldn't bring themselves to choose either candidate, both were so awful; of the 60% who did, they were split almost equally, with Bush getting 3% more than Kerry.

Which means one third of the American people selected Bush and 70% didn't.

Mind you, even if I believed that my vote was the most precious act of freedom given by the universe, I'm damned if I'd stand in a line for 10 hours to exercise that 'right'.



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Sackanaka]

Mind you, even if I believed that my vote was the most precious act of freedom given by the universe, I'm damned if I'd stand in a line for 10 hours to exercise that 'right'.

I know what you mean. I did apply for an absentee ballot, but didn't get one anyway, but I felt confident enough in America to see the flaws as something significant enough to not vote for Bush. I guess it was the P(?) in me that failed to see the real situation of the world and the lack of F to see any appeal in Bush. Lesson learned I guess... So what was that proposal on another thread about banding together and ruling the nation? :D
I think if we had a committee of INTPs who give advice (i.e. rule from behind the lines) to ESFJs, it might be a pretty powerful force.

[KentOhio]

Washington D.C voted 90% for Kerry because most of it, the part they hide from tourists, is a HUGE STINKIN' GHETTO.

Someone check my source on this, but I heard that Bush has a higher IQ than Kerry. That doesn't mean anything leadership-wise, but it makes you all look stupid for calling him stupid.

[InsurgentAlpha]

10 examples of his exceptional IQ

10) "Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream." —LaCrosse, Wis., Oct. 18, 2000

9) "I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family." —Greater Nashua, N.H., Jan. 27, 2000

8) "I hear there's rumors on the Internets that we're going to have a draft." —second presidential debate, St. Louis, Mo., Oct. 8, 2004

7) "You teach a child to read, and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test.'' —Townsend, Tenn., Feb. 21, 2001

6) "Too many good docs are getting out of the business. Too many OB-GYNs aren't able to practice their love with women all across this country." —Poplar Bluff, Mo., Sept. 6, 2004

5) "There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." —Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002

4) "I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully." —Saginaw, Mich., Sept. 29, 2000

3) "They misunderestimated me." —Bentonville, Ark., Nov. 6, 2000

2) "Rarely is the questioned asked: Is our children learning?" —Florence, S.C., Jan. 11, 2000

1) "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." —Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004

[Vagabond]

3) "They misunderestimated me." —Bentonville, Ark., Nov. 6, 2000
:rofl:
For some reason, that particular one cracked me up. :D

[int]

Someone check my source on this, but I heard that Bush has a higher IQ than Kerry. That doesn't mean anything leadership-wise, but it makes you all look stupid for calling him stupid.


You are teh funny.

:rofl:

[Claverhouse]

Steve Sailer --- Does IQ Matter In A President ? (http://www.vdare.com/sailer/041028_iq.htm)

Kennedy had 119

Nixon possibly had 143

I would prefer Nixon anyway, as more cunning. And more honest. But I wouldn't evaluate anyone primarily on intelligence. It is generally over-rated by those who esteem their own intelligence inordinately high.


Gregory Cochran, a rocket scientist turned evolutionary biologist, summed up the challenge facing voters. "What really matters in a leader is not being smart, but being right. Who was smarter? Warren G. Harding or V.I. Lenin? I'm sure Lenin could have beaten Harding in chess, but I definitely would rather have lived under Harding than Lenin. Harding was kind of a dumb bunny, but his prejudices and instincts were much more reasonable than Lenin's, who was wrong about everything."


One rule of thumb useful in evaluating candidates' reputations is to remember that more writers will write nice things about politicians who give more jobs to writers.




Claverhouse :ph34r:

[MacGuffin]

Washington D.C voted 90% for Kerry because most of it, the part they hide from tourists, is a HUGE STINKIN' GHETTO.

It is not that bad. I work in D.C.

[Sackanaka]

It's not just IQ either, though it is funny to compare. I know that men of lower IQ are capable of making competent decisions, perhaps moreso than that of some candidates of higher IQ, but the real question is how they apply their skills in the first place. My question about Bush: What skills? He has done good in taking Saddam out of the picture, but this is one thing that will stick with me, from the Good Book, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance:
Even if you take out the institution, another one will rise in its place if the purpose it was originally erected was not dealt with.
Even if we excuse all the "bad" things about Bush, about the "good" things: do you think he really did do good?
No judgment, just inquiry.

[Sackanaka]

True, most politicians deal mostly with the contemporary- there seems to be a stronger focus on fixing the small pictures than working on the big one (don't discuss economics; not interested, not the point. The point was conceded.) I guess I just don't see the good that Bush has done in the same way most of midwest US sees it. Please, let me see it.

[Avengardh]

Yeah, I was pissed, and in MN which voted for Kerry; I think I like it even more now (although Chicago was cool).

At least Salazar won, if it will help or not...I do not know.

Going back to my hood anyway, but having Bush in office won't really help Mexicans, or most of the world for that matter. I am moving to Canada and I am taking Indy with me :D

[int]

At least Salazar won, if it will help or not...I do not know.



It will. I've met Pete Coors (a friend dated Ashley[sp?], one of his daughters). The man is a bonifide asshole. Pardon my french.

Bonifide. And you can quote me on that.

[PsiKik]

True, most politicians deal mostly with the contemporary- there seems to be a stronger focus on fixing the small pictures than working on the big one (don't discuss economics; not interested, not the point. The point was conceded.) I guess I just don't see the good that Bush has done in the same way most of midwest US sees it. Please, let me see it.

Very true. Thinking short term, as do most politicos, is like not seeing the big picture time-wise.
INTP's are supposed to see the big picture.

[crule81]

At least Salazar won, if it will help or not...I do not know.



It will. I've met Pete Coors (a friend dated Ashley[sp?], one of his daughters). The man is a bonifide asshole. Pardon my french.

Bonifide. And you can quote me on that.

His son (I think it was his son) went to the same college as me at the same time. He had unlimited Coors on tap at his fraternity. Too bad Coors sucks - tastes like water. Only better than the Beast or Genny Light. I can't believe people used to drive halfway across the country to purchase it.

[Arioch]

It's not just IQ either, though it is funny to compare. I know that men of lower IQ are capable of making competent decisions, perhaps moreso than that of some candidates of higher IQ, but the real question is how they apply their skills in the first place. My question about Bush: What skills? He has done good in taking Saddam out of the picture, but this is one thing that will stick with me, from the Good Book, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance:
Even if you take out the institution, another one will rise in its place if the purpose it was originally erected was not dealt with.
Even if we excuse all the "bad" things about Bush, about the "good" things: do you think he really did do good?
No judgment, just inquiry.

Saddam was placed there to keep Iran under control. Right now though I'm wondering whats was so bad with Iran before and whats bad there now.

And wether america has done a good thing with taking Saddam down is another thing. For one thing Saddam wasn't a threat to his neighbours let alone the rest of the world. And even though he's a sadistic pig who tortured people the US has been as bad as he was at it. Even if we forget the systematic destruction and slow massacre of the Iraqi people (for example by vetoing anything from the UN that would help starving children in Iraq) I think that US solders are trying their damn best to equal the amount of torture done by Saddam and expanding their creativity. Afterall I don't think children were sodomized as much during Saddams rule.

I can only think of the long term damages. For example alot of the ammunition used (especially in the first Gulf War) was radioactive which has caused a abnormal amount of defects (including blindness). Another would be the priceless Mesopotamian artifacts lost due to US incompetence. Womens rights have also gone down.

Nonetheless I find some dark amusment in the irony of the political situation. Iraq will probably have a Shia goverment now... Saddam was put into power to suppress a Shia-ruled goverment.

[InsurgentAlpha]

Washington D.C voted 90% for Kerry because most of it, the part they hide from tourists, is a HUGE STINKIN' GHETTO.

It is not that bad. I work in D.C.

He just said it because many black people live there. To people like him wherever a lot of blacks live = a ghetto.

[booyalab]

Washington D.C voted 90% for Kerry because most of it, the part they hide from tourists, is a HUGE STINKIN' GHETTO.

It is not that bad. I work in D.C.

He just said it because many black people live there. To people like him wherever a lot of blacks live = a ghetto.

He probably also believes wherever a lot of Jews live, that's a Jewish ghetto...and wherever a lot of Poles live, that's a Polish ghetto. What a racist!

[sbw]

re. original post: I'm against Dumb too (shall we call it the NT curse?). But dubya isn't really running anything...and I'm more against dumb (dubya) than I'm against evil (rove, cheney, et al); evil's kinda neat.

Scott

[Division56]

At least Salazar won, if it will help or not...I do not know.



It will. I've met Pete Coors (a friend dated Ashley[sp?], one of his daughters). The man is a bonifide asshole. Pardon my french.

Bonifide. And you can quote me on that.

His son (I think it was his son) went to the same college as me at the same time. He had unlimited Coors on tap at his fraternity. Too bad Coors sucks - tastes like water. Only better than the Beast or Genny Light. I can't believe people used to drive halfway across the country to purchase it.


Coors is extremely anti-gay. Just if anyone wants to know...

[Claverhouse]

Womens rights have also gone down.

The Ba'athist regime, technocratic and modernist to it's backbone, had a long tradition of promoting 'women's rights' and women themselves to high places in civil & military positions. ( Also as here it was a vital tool in breaking up traditional family & tribal power structures ).

Probably the second reason I despise the Saddamist regime so.


Nonetheless I find some dark amusment in the irony of the political situation. Iraq will probably have a Shia goverment now... Saddam was put into power to suppress a Shia-ruled goverment.


:D



Claverhouse :ph34r: