"Sexual Instinct in the Five"

[waxwing]

I just came across this article and if all I can say is:

y e s.

It really does define my core instinct. I had been wondering lately if I might be 4w5, but I think now that it is my instinctual stacking sx/sp/so that makes me prone to 4ishness. The one question that most alienates me or causes me paranoia is whether or not "this" current person in my life will reject me for my intensity. It's happened so many times I have lost count. Anyway, on to article:

The Sexual Instinct in the Five

"This is my world" (Ichazo's "Confidence")

In the average range, the detachment and avoidance characteristic of Fives clash with the Sexual variant's desire for intense connection. Sexual Fives like sharing secret information with their intimates ("I've never told anyone this"). But they are always experiencing some degree of tension between pursuing those they are attracted to and lacking confidence in their social skills. Thus, Sexual Fives are driven to engage intensely with people, although often with anxiety and a tendency to withdraw at a moment's notice. They are more affable and talkative than the other two Instinctual variants of type Five, but can cause others surprise and consternation when they unexpectedly "drop out" and disappear for periods of time. On the one hand, when romantically interested in someone, they can become extremely open and merged, more like Nines. On the other, when they feel unappreciated or misunderstood, they can quickly become emotionally distant. Powerful connections with others alternate with long periods of isolation.

The sexual Instinct mixes with intellect to produce intense imagination.
Sexual Fives create alternate realities-private "worlds" of various kinds-that
they present to potential intimates. They are looking for the ideal mate,the
mate for life, who will not be turned back by their intensity/strangeness.
("Does this intensity frighten you?") Strong sexuality gives Sexual Fives the
impetus to risk emotional contact, and also provides relief from their
constant mental activity. It becomes a way to "ground" themselves.
But in less healthy Fives, the mix of imagination and sexuality can become
dark and fetishistic: they can become lost in disturbing fantasies and dreams.

In the unhealthy range, longing for the lost love and feelings of rejection
can lead Sexual Fives into isolation and self-destructive behavior. They are
often drawn, through voyeurism, into dangerous lifestyles, and can be
attracted to society's underbelly.

[lbloom]

Runs like a page from my (non-existent) diary.

[waxwing]

Runs like a page from my (non-existent) diary. If nobody gets "east timor" in the "what country are you" thread, then...wanna...?;)

Here's some more info. about the sexual variant:

Many people initially want to identify themselves as this Variant, perhaps
because they believe that this would mean that they are "sexy" or because they enjoy sex. Of course, "sexiness" is highly subjective, and there are "sexy" people in all three of the Instinctual Variants. If we wish to be one Variant rather than another, it is good to remember that the personality tends to interfere with and distort the dominant Instinct. Thus, people of the Sexual Variant tend to have recurrent problems in the areas of intimate relationships. As with the other Variants, we need to see the way that the Instinct plays out more broadly.

In the Sexual types, there is a constant search for connection and an attraction to intense experiences-not only sexual experiences, but any situation which promises a similar "charge." In all things, Sexual types seek intense contact. The search for intensity could be found in a ski jump, a deep conversation, or an exciting movie. They are the "intimacy junkies" of the Instinctual Variants. On the positive side, sexual types possess a wide-ranging, exploratory approach to life; on the negative side, they have difficulty focusing on their own real needs and priorities.

On entering a room, Sexual types quickly focus on finding where the most "interesting" people are. They tend to follow their attractions. (By contrast, Social types notice who is talking with the host, who has power, prestige, or who might be able to help them. Self-Preservation types will note the temperature of the room, where the refreshments are, and what might be a comfortable place to sit.) Sexual types gravitate toward people they feel magnetized by, regardless of the person's potential for helping them or their social standing. It is as if they were asking, "Where is the juice in this room? Whose energy is most intense?"

Sexual types tend to have difficulty pursuing their own projects or taking
adequate care of themselves because on a subconscious level, they are always looking outside themselves for the person or situation that will "complete" them. They are like a plug looking for a socket, and can become obsessed with another if they feel they have "found" the right person for them. They may neglect important obligations, or even their own basic necessities if they are swept up in someone or something that has captivated them.

When they are unhealthy, Sexual types can experience a scattering of their attention and a profound lack of focus. They may act out in sexual promiscuity or become trapped in a fearful, dysfunctional attitude toward sex and intimacy. When the latter becomes their orientation, they will be equally intense about their avoidances.

When the other two Instincts dominate in an individual and the Sexual Instinct is the least developed, attending to matters of intimacy and stimulation-mental or emotional-does not come naturally. Such individuals tend to have difficulty being intimate with others and may even avoid it altogether. They also tend to fall into routines, feeling uncomfortable if there is too much that is unfamiliar in their lives. They may feel socially involved with people, but strangely disconnected even from spouses, friends, and family members.

[lbloom]

If nobody gets "east timor" in the "what country are you" thread, then...wanna...?;)

:)


Many people initially want to identify themselves as this Variant, perhaps
because they believe that this would mean that they are "sexy" or because they enjoy sex.

I judge mine from the way my breathing pattern changes when I'm watching the dream sequence early on in 8 1/2, or how Chopin and a dark room works at the pit of my stomach.

[outmywindow]

"In the Sexual types, there is a constant search for connection and an attraction to intense experiences-not only sexual experiences, but any situation which promises a similar "charge.""

Wow, this is totally me. I'm not an adrenaline junkie or anything, but the constant nagging for a "true" experience drives me nuts sometimes...

And all of the above about oscillating between withdrawl and emotional/social openness depending on the person or situation -- that's VERY true!

Although, I just want to point out that in regards to this statement: "They are like a plug looking for a socket," I'm actually a socket looking for a plug...;)

Thanks for posting this!

Oh, and in regards to lbloom and 8 1/2, I think I know what they're talking about -- I always get "it" when I watch torture-type scenes in movies (or read them in books, etc.). What the fuck would Freud have to say about that??!?

[lbloom]

Although, I just want to point out that in regards to this statement: "They are like a plug looking for a socket," I'm actually a socket looking for a plug...;)

:lol:

[Ka.avik]

I would never have considered either that I was intense, or wanted intensity. But certain sentences is both your posts here WW, resonate with me. I usually assume that I'm either 5sp or 6sx, but have since determined that I'm so definately a five, with maybe a six-wing, though most detailed explanations of "the iconoclast" don't really suit me ...

Anyway, on to varient. The "on entering a crowded room" thing is so me. I'll note where the host is probably, but who I'll go straight towards is who I want to talk to, or listen to. Usually that's the cat, actually. More than a few times I've gotten stared at because I'll follow someone into their home, nod politely at the roomate, and immeditely drop to the floor to try to entice the cat that I'm not one of those loud, boisterous visitors that scare away nice cats ... so, lol 'n' stuff.

I have noticed that I'm much better at focusing on helping other people to whom I've promised my aid, then I am in remembering that I have hypoglycemia and really should eat something before driving off to do errands ... and end up wondering why I'm dizzy and uncaring about what I'm doing at the store.

And while I say above that I don't feel "intense", A coworker who has come to know me tolerably well over the last couple of years has on numerous occasions said exactly that, that I totally focus on whatever has my attention, and it lends a certain intensity to our interactions. Mind you, she's a 4sx herself, so when we're 'on", the conversations are very satisfying. So much so that the husband thought they were having marital problems 'til he learned what he was actually seeing..

[waxwing]

Although, I just want to point out that in regards to this statement: "They are like a plug looking for a socket," I'm actually a socket looking for a plug...;)

Hehe, spoken like a true sx.

[lbloom]

The "on entering a crowded room" didn't work with me, though - I'd generally trot off in the opposite direction if I spotted one. It's no wonder that years pass between people I can talk with. How inconvenient.

[waxwing]

I judge mine from the way my breathing pattern changes when I'm watching the dream sequence early on in 8 1/2, or how Chopin and a dark room works at the pit of my stomach.
Which makes me wonder if other sexual variant 5s like dark rooms....I know that wasn't your point, but I do tend to make rooms as dark and moody as possible.

Interesting that you bring up music and film. I have often experienced how a perfectly composed piece of music can become almost alive and interactive for me --something to connect with -- and how a certain idea/person artistically rendered in film can make me feel less alone. I will watch an intense or evokative scene over and over again to the point where I need to lie down and recover (akin to the aftermath of intense sexual connection). In these modes, my ADD sometimes take my mind elsewhere causing me dissatisfaction because something tells me that whatever it is that is before me is worthy of my undivided attention, that it will somehow coincide with my mind in such a way that I will be different afterwards. So, must go back and get everything out of the line of the song or the line of dialogue or, if we are talking about human interaction, the lines of the face or the meaning of the words or behavior. Although I have had many failed relationships, at this point in my life I've come to realize that most people don't want what I have to offer. They want to be comfortable whereas I constantly need to be stirred up. "Art disturbs the comfortable and comforts the disturbed." I like people, too, who are like art.

[outmywindow]

I will watch an intense or evokative scene over and over again to the point where I need to lie down and recover (akin to the aftermath of intense sexual connection).

Oh my god, I do the exact same thing! And although it's not sexual in nature, the result seems to have the same feeling (I don't mean result as in orgasm, but result as in feeling of fascinated satisafaction).

I always feel creepy and sadistic when I do this, but I really can't help myself.

[MySavior]

This doesn't really sound like me. waxwing, how did you come to believe you are an sx?

[waxwing]

This doesn't really sound like me. waxwing, how did you come to believe you are an sx?
It required no process of turning from unbelief to belief. I've always been extremely sx and unfortunately (?) very aware of it even before I had the terminology to describe it.

I could offer an explanation, but am not sure where to start. Perhaps you have a question for me?


(...but result as in feeling of fascinated satisafaction).
Well said.

[lbloom]

Can you summon adrenaline at will? I figured I could when I was 10 or so. Atleast I think it's adrenaline, it's the same rush that I get if I'm startled.

[waxwing]

Can you summon adrenaline at will? I figured I could when I was 10 or so. Atleast I think it's adrenaline, it's the same rush that I get if I'm startled.
I can summon the all over body shiver, the one that looks like I'm startled or cold, but feels like a release and heightening of tension all at once. Afterwards, I'm more aware of my breathing. It's sometimes shallow, but I will repeat the "shiver" until I can take a deep breath.

Is this at all what you mean?

[jread]

Again, I'm lost.

How do you know if you're a "sexual" 5? I tested as a 5, nothing more, nothing less. I don't have the "w" and all that other stuff.

[outmywindow]

The 'w' shows up if the 'second place' result number was really close to your 'first place,' meaning that you are XwY, or X with tendencies toward Y. For example, I'm 5w4. Not everyone gets a wY since some people score very solidly in one number category.

As for the sx/sp/so bit, I think it's just a matter of seeing yourself in the descriptions. I've taken quite a few Enneagram tests and have yet to have any of them include sx/sp/so in the results. Although who knows, maybe by some freaky chance I've just taken all the shitty ones...

@waxwing: About the shivery thing, I totally do that too, although my eyes tend to roll, so I'm concerned it might look somewhat like epilepsy (to someone who sees it) or something.

[lbloom]

I can summon the all over body shiver, the one that looks like I'm startled or cold, but feels like a release and heightening of tension all at once. Afterwards, I'm more aware of my breathing. It's sometimes shallow, but I will repeat the "shiver" until I can take a deep breath.

Is this at all what you mean?

It is.

[charred_heart]

@waxwing: About the shivery thing, I totally do that too, although my eyes tend to roll, so I'm concerned it might look somewhat like epilepsy (to someone who sees it) or something. :drool:
eyes rolling and toes curling = my turn ons


I remember when I was 16, I was thinking to myself about the meaning of love. Sitting alone in my room with the shades drawn, I saw a vision of myself walking on the edge of a steep cliff at a time of the night when everything seems black and white. As I walked, I got more exhausted and my energy was failing. I realised that at some point I will waver and fall off the cliff. I realised that was me alone. I do not know what being in love is yet, but it would beat falling away to nothing.


:offtopic:
I value experience over comfort and care more for others than for myself, yet I consistently score with sp as the first trait. None of the descriptions of sp agree with me, I see them as excessively self centered. It could be because I want to be alone right now that I'm answering like an sp...

[Wotton]

When the other two Instincts dominate in an individual and the Sexual Instinct is the least developed, attending to matters of intimacy and stimulation-mental or emotional-does not come naturally. Such individuals tend to have difficulty being intimate with others and may even avoid it altogether. They also tend to fall into routines, feeling uncomfortable if there is too much that is unfamiliar in their lives. They may feel socially involved with people, but strangely disconnected even from spouses, friends, and family members.
Is that bit still talking about sx people? Or is it talking about the opposite?

[waxwing]

Is that bit still talking about sx people? Or is it talking about the opposite?

I'm pretty sure it's referring to sp or so dominant people.

[geniusndisguise]

5sx is definitely me, too. I've always felt a sort of conflict within myself because I crave intesity and experiences but at the same time often retreat from the world and sometimes into myself. I've always forged a bond with only one or two people, and if it's good it's complete and intense. Without that I feel lost. I want to bleach my hair, get a tattoo, run away to Hawaii... something. Or all of them.



They want to be comfortable whereas I constantly need to be stirred up.
This is something I've realized about myself in the past few years. It worries me.

[charred_heart]

Although I have had many failed relationships, at this point in my life I've come to realize that most people don't want what I have to offer. They want to be comfortable whereas I constantly need to be stirred up. "Art disturbs the comfortable and comforts the disturbed." I like people, too, who are like art.hmmm, didn't notice this before. Does this affect your relathionships early on or later?

[Wotton]

I'm pretty sure it's referring to sp or so dominant people.
That's what it looks like. Its coming right at the end of the sx analysis confused me.

[waxwing]

hmmm, didn't notice this before. Does this affect your relathionships early on or later?
There generally isn't a "later" for me and another person, so I'll say "early" by default.

[charred_heart]

There generally isn't a "later" for me and another person, so I'll say "early" by default.we're on the same boat :(

This especially applies to me as I am in a conservative society.

[nomir_dva]

Those are interesting descriptions. Since learning of the Enneagram, I have assumed that I am a self-preservation variant Type 5 due to risk-aversion and unsociability. However, I relate strongly to the sx desire to connect deeply with one other person. On rare ocassions when my inhibitions have for some reason loosened, I will become unexpectedly open with one or two people who may be little more than acquaintences, and will reveal things about myself that I would not ordinarily share with anyone. Stability and comfort make me restless and unhappy. I often feel like putting some necessary provisions in my backpack and leaving my life behind to wander in some wilderness.

I may be mistaken, but those seem like characteristics most similar to a sexual subtype. Until recently, I had not considered the possibility of being a sexual varient at all because I am not a particualrly sexual person. But looking at the descriptions, it does not seem that overt sexual interest is a necessary characteristic of sx types. Or I could just be unhealthy, which is far from impossible.

[waxwing]

nomir_dva, do any of these resonate with you?

Five Stackings



The Instinctual Stackings of Enneatype Five

The self-preservational instinct is accentuated by the type Five fixation. The other two instincts are in opposition to the main type. When dominant, the social and sexual instincts therefore set up some degree of conflict with the dominant type Five fixation.

Self-pres/Social

In the average health range, this instinctual stacking is warm, friendly, and loyal. They need their down time and have no problem spending time alone. They actually value it very much. They feel an energy drain from people?s demands on them. This instinctual stacking is what is described in most Enneagram books. The most notable and potentially frustrating thing about people of this type is the difficulty involved in getting really close to them. While they can usually handle themselves socially, they always hold back when it comes to intensity or intimacy in a relationship which can frustrate a sexual variant type. Others are aware that there is more going on beneath the surface, but it can?t really be accessed. These Fives are masters at minimizing their needs. Even though they shy away from intense personal relationships they often have a lot of intuition about others. Their detached level of personal involvement somehow brings objectivity to their insights. They can be the most practical of the instinctual stackings.

Their issues usually revolve around demands made on their time. This can become problematic in personal relationships. This subtype has an ideal vision of what a close or romantic relationship should be, but given their concerns for protecting their space and time and lacking the instinctual drive of a strong sexual instinct, energy just doesn?t flow in that direction. Because this subtype is good at minimizing their needs they can get along fine with few relationships or without a romantic partner. With the social instinct second in the stacking, they generally do find friends or colleagues and they may even be married, but the need to maintain their own time to pursue their interests is always a point of contention.



Self-pres/Sexual


This subtype, like the self-pres/social, is more typical of the depictions of type Five. The self-preservational instinct accentuates the self-contained, withdrawing tendencies of the Five. Fives of this subtype love their time alone with a passion, and pursue it more actively even than the other subtype of self-pres Five, although with the sexual instinct second, they often want to find time for intimates as well. On the down side, they have more disdain for people and little use for the social aspects of life. They want to be left alone or they want to share their inner world with their intimates. The intensity of the sexual instinct is reserved for their intimates and even there it is sporadic. The self-pres energy gives this subtype a solid foundation and some degree of practicality.

These Fives are conflicted when it comes to experiencing and expressing emotions. They usually default to emotional repression and to detached intellectual analysis. This is a dynamic common to all Fives, but with the self-pres/sexual instinctual stacking, the balance of these forces is pretty precarious and it seems as though the scales are being constantly adjusted one way or another. As the social instinct is the least developed, the social arena gets the drier more intellectual approach almost by default.


Social/Self-pres

One might think that the energy of this subtype would be warmer and friendlier than that of the self-pres/social, but it doesn?t usually present that way. Because the social instinct is dominant, these Fives are much more aware of their role in the group. They are therefore more careful of their involvements with others. The social arena is more important and is invested with more energy, so these Fives will pull up faster and harder into self-pres mode if they should feel at all threatened. This will sometimes give others the impression of coldness. This subtype will center a lot of their intellectual interest around the workings of society, humanity or spirituality. This serves as their connection with people. By means of these abstract mental constructs, Fives of this subtype feel a sense of belonging socially, without having to be personally involved and invested. The healthier people of this subtype are, the more they are able to integrate their mental constructs with their actual experiences. They can really be content to adopt the role of ?people watcher,? but they do it from a closer and closer perspective. Their blind spot revolves around the fact that they tend to convince themselves they can get along just fine in the observer role. It does feel safer to them. If they do have a few people relatively close to them, they can really strike a good balance between their need to withdraw and their need to connect to the larger social world.

This subtype could be seen as the most intellectual of type Five. The combination of the basic desire for knowing with the social instinct?s need to "fit in," makes people of this subtype want to find a niche as the expert. Their interest in structure, especially social structure, accentuates their natural inclination for acquiring knowledge. With the sexual instinct least developed, this subtype is in the position of having a strong pull towards understanding the workings of the world around them, without the emotional intensity of the sexual instinct setting up any distraction. These Fives fit the role of the scientist or professor quite well in this respect.



Social/Sexual

When reasonably healthy, people of this subtype can be very engaging (for a Five). They smile a lot and are often friendly. Their energy is quite different from the social/self-pres subtype because both the social and sexual energies push outwards, and so partly balance out some of the withdrawing tendencies of the Five. This doesn?t mean that people of this subtype are necessarily any healthier however. The outgoing energy is not the result of true integration to Eight but is the result of the compulsive pull of the instincts. People of this subtype are usually warm and when feeling secure are likely to let people in and even to initiate contact. When they feel insecure however, they can actually go to the other extreme and be very shy. For this reason, people of this subtype could easily be mistyped; those Fives who withdraw from social contact because of feelings of insecurity, might not seem like social subtypes at all. It might not be obvious that they actually very much desire contact. For people of this subtype, the social instinct actually works as a release value for the sexual component. When relaxed and comfortable with others, the sexual instinct can easily be seen.


People of this subtype are very aware of how they ?fit in,? and also experience the sexual drive of wanting to connect with intimates. Like other social/sexual subtypes, they have the tendency to cultivate many relationships. They want to be liked by everyone, but being Fives they also tend to hold a part of themselves back for fear of rejection or of being overwhelmed by the demands of the relationship. This subtype of Five is more likely to fear rejection than the other subtypes of Five. Because both of the dominant instincts are focused on people, any failure in the realm of interpersonal relationships triggers a fear that there is no safety in the world. Personality systems like the Enneagram function as tool to help this subtype of Five to feel safe in the world. People of this subtype tend to think that the more they understand people, the less chance they have of being rejected. This tends to be a blind spot for people of this subtype as they don?t see that what will actually help them to become healthier is gaining more life experience. This will help them to see that their world will not come to an end with a little rejection.


Sexual/Self-pres

This subtype has a lot in common the self-pres/sexual instinctual stacking. They experience many of the same internal conflicts surrounding relationships, the need for independence and emotional expression. The sexual/self-pres subtype differs however in being more intense, more counterphobic. They entertain more dark nihilistic ideas, ideas that most others don?t want to consider.

With this subtype, a lot of energy revolves around the issue of boundaries. Sexual/self-pres Fives tend to forge strong connections quickly and deeply, but if they feel betrayed, begin to feel overwhelmed, or if they feel that the connection doesn?t serve their true needs, can seem to cut the connection precipitously and ?go cold.? They have high standards for significant others. They must feel that they can share their emotions with a significant other without being judged. This is their private world that they share. Relationships can be difficult, because individuals of this subtype will still want their own space and alone time, while at other times will want intense connection. Because the social instinct is least developed, this subtype is not very concerned with how others perceive them (except their intimates). This subtype is deceptive in that they may not seem to be especially intense - until they are engaged in a conversation they find interesting. Then the intensity and emotion become apparent. The internal struggle for this subtype is similar to that of the self-pres/sexual, but more energized and volatile, and getting to know this subtype means getting to know that.

When unhealthy, the energy of the sexual instinct can combine with the dominant type Five fixation to create a very impulsive Eight-like anger. The strength of their convictions can then come out quite forcefully.

Sexual/social

This subtype is the most dramatic of the instinctual stackings of type Five. They are less concerned than the social/sexual subtype with social rejection, but take rejection from intimates very much to heart. They have a strong desire to express themselves, and can be the most Four-like of all the instinctual subtypes of type Five.

Not only do they have a strong desire to merge with a significant other, they also want to make their mark in the larger social sphere. The intensity, aggression, counterphobic stance and desire to connect deeply, all combine with the social instinct to produce a highly charged personality. This subtype can become quite accomplished if they are able to form an intimate connection with someone who will help ground them and provide them with a feeling of security. When Fives of this subtype feel a sense of safety due to healthy intimate relationships, they will want to share whatever knowledge, talent or insight they may have.

When unhealthy, this subtype can be very dark, pessimistic and the most confrontational of all the subtypes of Five. They can also become very arrogant.


Copyright ? ocean-moonshine.net and its authors 2005, 2006
powered by phpWebSite

http://ocean-moonshine.net/e142857369/index.php?&MMN_position=12:12

[kendoiwan]

So how do I find out what my wing is? I'm new to the whole enneagram business... I just tested as a 5, tho' which is why I'm here in the first place...

[Biff_Loman]

I definitely sound like a soc/sx 5.

[nomir_dva]

Now that I have decided that I may be a sexual subtype, there is the chance of bias in my thoughts, but I seem to identify most strongly with the sx/sp description, particularly in the tendency to entertain "dark nihilistic ideas," hidden intensity, holding significant others to high standards, and the conflict between wanting to connect deeply and yet seeking isolation and nonattachment most of the time.

It may be relevant that I often seem very aloof and unemotional in spoken conversation, but when communicating with the same person in writing, I become much more expressive and emotional. I imagine that after speaking to me, people are taken aback when our discourse continues via e-mail or IM and I start to divulge far more information about my personality, ideas, and apprehensions. I think I scare acqauintances away when my writing exhibits none of the sarcasm and unemotionality that I display in person.

[rivercrow]

Oh, Waxwing! Thank you so much for posting that!! :thumbup:

[Ka.avik]

So/Sx
[...] other extreme and be very shy. For this reason, people of this subtype could easily be mistyped; those Fives who withdraw from social contact because of feelings of insecurity, might not seem like social subtypes at all.[...]
more likely to fear rejection than the other subtypes of Five. Because both of the dominant instincts are focused on people, any failure in the realm of interpersonal relationships triggers a fear that there is no safety in the world.

Oh. Dear. Is that what my problem is?

I want to add more here, and may come back later and talking about being fascinated by the forces of politics but disgusted by sociology (which should by rights all be a falsehood), as well as feeling some kinship with the (snipped) phrase about "always knowing where you "fit in" but right now I'm at work, and there's stuff that needs doing.

so, l8r.

edit: or, maybe I think I've said enough. Nobody else wants to comment on how WW's quote of the instinctive subtypes resonates with them?

[attila_the_hunny]

These Fives are conflicted when it comes to experiencing and expressing emotions. They usually default to emotional repression and to detached intellectual analysis. This is a dynamic common to all Fives, but with the self-pres/sexual instinctual stacking, the balance of these forces is pretty precarious and it seems as though the scales are being constantly adjusted one way or another. As the social instinct is the least developed, the social arena gets the drier more intellectual approach almost by default.

There I am.

[Jennywocky]

Interesting that you bring up music and film. I have often experienced how a perfectly composed piece of music can become almost alive and interactive for me --something to connect with -- and how a certain idea/person artistically rendered in film can make me feel less alone. I will watch an intense or evokative scene over and over again to the point where I need to lie down and recover (akin to the aftermath of intense sexual connection).

Totally with you, man.

I often get charged by particular works of art (i.e., movies or music) and will replay segments over and over until they are completely subsumed within me and thus no longer need to be experienced externally. The intensity is frightening, the strongest emotional experiences I tend to have.

Interestingly, sometimes when I feel a certain way and really want to experience it more deeply, I will replay music/movies that evoke the same feeling and literally "prep myself" for that scene/moment. It's intense enough that sometimes I cry, experience chills, etc.

[Eileen]

I'm definitely, definitely a sexual variant - and being alone (not committed and attached to someone) really makes it all the more obvious to me. I feel very much like a socket looking for a plug.

Not even necessarily in the sexual sense, but in the personal sense. I feel very lost without an intimate connection... and that makes me wonder if I shouldn't just reject all intimate connections until I learn to be without them.

Eh.

Meh.

/feels sad today.

[cjs55]

and that makes me wonder if I shouldn't just reject all intimate connections until I learn to be without them.
Honestly, sounds like me from ages 14-19. I'm not being condescending (at least on purpose that is), it's just an interesting parallel. I refused any connection whatsoever during that time because the intensity of the desire for it frightened me and made me question my independence and self worth.

[Jennywocky]

This one is me:

Not sure all of it applies to me, but I've got large bits of sx/sp -- it's like an internal tug of war threatening to tear me apart.

Desiring deep connection, I'll jump in way over head and admit/reveal things without compunction. Then, later, I'll feel like I left myself way open for rejection or criticism and want to completely withdraw and cut all ties.

Then, of course, the cycle repeats itself because I need interpersonal connection.

I even felt that way yesterday, after leaving some posts here. In the middle of posting, I'm "captured" by the thought process and feel completely at ease, digging deep and expressing myself. Later, I'll feel embarrassed and naked and feel, as if I've made a fool of myself.

Stepping outside the sx/sp paradigm, it's similar to some Avoidant type behaviors -- desire for intimacy and connection, fear of intimacy and connection.

[LuridLemur]

Self-pres/Sexual


This subtype, like the self-pres/social, is more typical of the depictions of type Five. The self-preservational instinct accentuates the self-contained, withdrawing tendencies of the Five. Fives of this subtype love their time alone with a passion, and pursue it more actively even than the other subtype of self-pres Five, although with the sexual instinct second, they often want to find time for intimates as well. On the down side, they have more disdain for people and little use for the social aspects of life. They want to be left alone or they want to share their inner world with their intimates. The intensity of the sexual instinct is reserved for their intimates and even there it is sporadic. The self-pres energy gives this subtype a solid foundation and some degree of practicality.

These Fives are conflicted when it comes to experiencing and expressing emotions. They usually default to emotional repression and to detached intellectual analysis. This is a dynamic common to all Fives, but with the self-pres/sexual instinctual stacking, the balance of these forces is pretty precarious and it seems as though the scales are being constantly adjusted one way or another. As the social instinct is the least developed, the social arena gets the drier more intellectual approach almost by default.
Whoa. :ph34r:

Thanks for posting that.

[Arfael]

Those are interesting descriptions. Since learning of the Enneagram, I have assumed that I am a self-preservation variant Type 5 due to risk-aversion and unsociability. However, I relate strongly to the sx desire to connect deeply with one other person. On rare ocassions when my inhibitions have for some reason loosened, I will become unexpectedly open with one or two people who may be little more than acquaintences, and will reveal things about myself that I would not ordinarily share with anyone. Stability and comfort make me restless and unhappy. I often feel like putting some necessary provisions in my backpack and leaving my life behind to wander in some wilderness.

I may be mistaken, but those seem like characteristics most similar to a sexual subtype. Until recently, I had not considered the possibility of being a sexual varient at all because I am not a particualrly sexual person. But looking at the descriptions, it does not seem that overt sexual interest is a necessary characteristic of sx types. Or I could just be unhealthy, which is far from impossible.

Hi. I'm new here :)

Your post struck a chord to me, because it's been my dilemma for quite some time now. The thing about me is that I have an intense need to withdraw from people interspersed with an intense need to connect and be known by others too. It's weird.

I once read that 5's are naturally self-preservationists, because they hoard things in order for them not to feel too overwhelmed. I'm just wondering if maybe I'm an sx but the pull of my 5 tendency is causing me to mistype myself as having an sp variant. When I'm reading the descriptions of sp/sx and sx/sp, both of them were true for me, although I can say that I don't obsessively look for soulmates and stuff---I just crave to be known by people who matter to me. Do you think this is an sx thing? Or it's not intense enough to be so?

[Jennywocky]

Hi. I'm new here :)

Hi, New Here.

(I'm Been Here, Done That. Glad to meet you.)


Your post struck a chord to me, because it's been my dilemma for quite some time now. The thing about me is that I have an intense need to withdraw from people interspersed with an intense need to connect and be known by others too. It's weird.

Yeah, it's real whiplash, ain't it? I never understood myself or that it could even be theorized until I saw the sx description.


I once read that 5's are naturally self-preservationists, because they hoard things in order for them not to feel too overwhelmed. I'm just wondering if maybe I'm an sx but the pull of my 5 tendency is causing me to mistype myself as having an sp variant. When I'm reading the descriptions of sp/sx and sx/sp, both of them were true for me, although I can say that I don't obsessively look for soulmates and stuff---I just crave to be known by people who matter to me. Do you think this is an sx thing? Or it's not intense enough to be so?

I tend to call myself sx/sp. My childhood sucked, I withdrew pretty much from all relationships, and even now in adulthood I still routinely have to fight off the urge to crawl into my hole and pull it in after me.

The crappy part is that, at the same time, I feel immense loneliness ... even while I hate the sense of obligation that comes with being in relationships.

So relationships are both feared and desired.

A standard sp, I think, just thinks about self-preservation and isn't bothered by being mostly removed from the world. It provides security to them.

The sx cannot do that and feel fulfilled. There's a sense for intimate connection with another soul -- to know and be known, to understand and be understood.

It's this constant ambivalence towards others that kills me.

[Arfael]

Hi, New Here.

(I'm Been Here, Done That. Glad to meet you.)



Yeah, it's real whiplash, ain't it? I never understood myself or that it could even be theorized until I saw the sx description.



I tend to call myself sx/sp. My childhood sucked, I withdrew pretty much from all relationships, and even now in adulthood I still routinely have to fight off the urge to crawl into my hole and pull it in after me.

The crappy part is that, at the same time, I feel immense loneliness ... even while I hate the sense of obligation that comes with being in relationships.

So relationships are both feared and desired.

A standard sp, I think, just thinks about self-preservation and isn't bothered by being mostly removed from the world. It provides security to them.

The sx cannot do that and feel fulfilled. There's a sense for intimate connection with another soul -- to know and be known, to understand and be understood.

It's this constant ambivalence towards others that kills me.


Hi Been Here, Done That. Glad to meet you. (Goodness, your name's really long...) :D

Nice to meet you too.

Good to know I'm not alone with this kind of diliemma. Somehow I wonder if I'm going to resolve this push-pull tendency that I have. I take it you haven't reconciled it yet? I really want to know how I can solve this. I noticed that as I grow older, I'm more trying to connect with someone. I guess when you're so used to living alone and being independent, there comes a point in your existence when you want another kind of way to live your life. My 4 wing is really kicking me these past few years, I guess.

[Ka.avik]

[...]
So, the last time I posted here, I claimed to be an 5so; I've earlier in the thread responded strongly to sx expositions because I could see myself there, though it didn't really seem right. Still not sure which 'stacking' I like, as posted by Waxwing (good post, as always, ww)

but, I don't seem to recall a post in this thread (which is why I'm bumping it, 'cuz I think it's relevant and useful to the topic of discussion) any links that lead to this (http://9types.com/descr/5/baron2.html) page I found on 9types.

Self-Preservation Fives: "My Home is My Castle"
[list]
I need to live in a private place where I can comcentrate; I want no expectations, intrusions, demands, questions, coercion, or noise.
I try to keep my life simple.
The more time I spend with people, the more drained I become.
It would bog me down to have a lot of belongings; I need easy access to books and other information though.
I have a tendency to save; I protect both my time and my money.
I am self-reliant; it rarely occurs to me to seek help or advice.
I dislike owing or being owed anything.
Some of the most introverted of all the nine types are of this subtype.


This has the most bullet-points of the three lists, and I relate more strongly to them, then to the suggested points for the SO; tho I relate to the SO on at least some level, whereas, beyond the last item on relational fives, "When I'm alone with my feelings, they seem quite clear; but when I try to express them to my partner and close friends, I can't find the right words." which, as for the strength of my relation to these items, suitably belongs at the bottom of the list. ...

So, by this estimation, I'm sp/so. Just felt I needed to clarify, in case my posts were being used as data for someone's own self-examination, and you were assuming I knew what I was talking about. :D