Conscious agenda

[Kljoki]

Now these are socionics types, not MBTI ones. Taken from here: - http://www.the16types.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4383&start=0


Hypothesis:
Your "conscious agenda" is basically your dual's hidden agenda:

ISFp, INFp => to be loved
ESFj, ESTj => to be healthy
INTj, INFj => to be perfect
ENTp, ESTp => to understand
ISTj, ISFj => to be wealthy
ENFj, ENTj => to believe
INTp, ISTp => to know
ESFp, ENFp => to love

How many people here identify with their conscious agenda? (I do.)

It consequently should more or less correspond to your Creative (2nd) function and you may find yourself consciously striving to be "the loved one" (if you are an ISFp/INFp) or "the knowledgeable one" (INTp/ISTp) in the heirarchy of Socionics.

[PenguinHunter]

I'm not sure about the "to believe" for ENTJs. What is it supposed to mean?

[EmmaPeel]

It doesn't fit.

[waxwing]

Definitely fits for me. To understand.

[Kljoki]

It doesn't fit.What's your socionics type?


I'm not sure about the "to believe" for ENTJs. What is it supposed to mean?I don't know. Perhaps an ENTj can tell us.

But I definitely identify with mine though, "to be loved".

[Shimpei]

what is the socionics type of an ISFJ (mbti-wise)?

[Kljoki]

what is the socionics type of an ISFJ (mbti-wise)? Depends on your relationships with other people and their socionics type.
Is there any agenda you identify with? That might help.

[Shimpei]

Depends on your relationships with other people and their socionics type.
Is there any agenda you identify with? That might help.

I don't have any agenda listed above. I want quietude. OK, perhaps to be loved but who DOESN'T?
(Why does it all depend on OTHER people and THEIR socionics types?)

[Kljoki]

I don't have any agenda listed above. I want quietude. OK, perhaps to be loved but who DOESN'T?
(Why does it all depend on OTHER people and THEIR socionics types?)
:lol: Because socionics is an inter type (Jungian types) relationships theory.

In socionics ISFp is Si - Fe. If you were ISFj you would be Fi - Se.

[Shimpei]

:lol: Because socionics is an inter type (Jungian types) relationships theory.

In socionics ISFp is Si - Fe. If you were ISFj you would be Fi - Se.

Thanks.
I still can't identify with any of these :joft:

[Kljoki]

Thanks.
I still can't identify with any of these :joft:
Well, which do you like more, ENTP-s or ENTJ-s? Or perhaps neither?

[PenguinHunter]

Oh oops sorry, I missed that it was socionics.

[Ka.avik]

I tend to test as intp under both systems (heh, a little late, here's my quadra (http://socion.info/cgi-bin/Q16.cgi?Q7=1&Q9=1&Q10=1&Q11=1&Q12=1&Q13=1&Q14=1&Q17=1&TIE=0&Q1=-1&Q2=-1&Q3=-1&Q4=-1&Q5=-1&Q6=-1&Q8=-1&Q15=-1&Q16=-1&TB1=-1&TB2=1&TBR=1&Q=99&post=1) result, which seems to be implying I'm ENTj :P ) and 'to know' seems a better 'agenda' then 'to understand' since I generally assume that completely correct knowledge that is correct in its completeness, will offer its own understanding to the viewer. ...

as to ENTj "to believe" I have to go with the comment I read on what I skimmed of that link you offered -- it's about the most ambiguous agenda one could put together. What is the theoretical agenda of an ENxj, then?

---
Knowledge is power ... use it wisely

an open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred, and unguarded

[Shimpei]

Well, which do you like more, ENTP-s or ENTJ-s? Or perhaps neither?

ENTPs and ENTJs mbti-wise or socionics-wise?
I don't remember I have met one, anyway :)
OK, let's leave it at that, I'm zoning out ...

[Kljoki]

heh, a little late, here's my quadra (http://socion.info/cgi-bin/Q16.cgi?Q7=1&Q9=1&Q10=1&Q11=1&Q12=1&Q13=1&Q14=1&Q17=1&TIE=0&Q1=-1&Q2=-1&Q3=-1&Q4=-1&Q5=-1&Q6=-1&Q8=-1&Q15=-1&Q16=-1&TB1=-1&TB2=1&TBR=1&Q=99&post=1) result, which seems to be implying I'm ENTj :P ) Try this (http://www.people.iup.edu/rdxm/ptest_stage1.htm) test and gimme the results. It's short.


What is the theoretical agenda of an ENxj, then? Well, theoretically it's expressed as a general acceptance of your dual's hidden agenda function. Whatever it is. Ni is kinda like turning reality into jigsaw pieces. Making reality not reality. I guess that can be, albeit stretched, understood as "to believe" because you can't do anything else except to accept that "picture".

[Ka.avik]

Try this (http://www.people.iup.edu/rdxm/ptest_stage1.htm) test and gimme the results. It's short.
it proposes INTj. :shrug:

EDIT: "to be perfect. I've seen this in myself, and could draw up an argument explaining how my "agenda" towards perfection permeates everything I do -- but, really who wants to do stuff wrong? :p

But I have been called perfectionistic by a few friends ... not commonly, though. I certainly can't say I don't identify with such an agenda.

[Kljoki]

it proposes INTj. :shrug:
I typed you as an INTj even before you took that test. You have anti-Se. Just like Kuranes. My guess is that you really are a socionics LII (INTj).



EDIT: "to be perfect. I've seen this in myself, and could draw up an argument explaining how my "agenda" towards perfection permeates everything I do -- but, really who wants to do stuff wrong? :p Some people just don't care. For instance, I like doing things right, but I don't care. I can't even remotely identify with that agenda.
Conscious agenda would be something that is primarily evident in your behaviour. At least that's the case for me.




But I have been called perfectionistic by a few friends ... not commonly, though. I certainly can't say I don't identify with such an agenda. Well, is there one that you do identify with?

[Ka.avik]

Well, is there one that you do identify with?
as a type-five, the xNTp agendas look fine :D

anti-Se? interesting ... but I like motorcycling and bike riding, and I change my own oil (wait, that last isn't about experincing the car, it's about making sure the $#%!! job gets done ... wait for it ... perfectly)

So, can I be an avid motorcyclist, and be anti-Se? ... can you convince hustler that motorcycling isn't an S-thing? ;)

[Kljoki]

as a type-five, the xNTp agendas look fine :D

anti-Se? interesting ... but I like motorcycling and bike riding, and I change my own oil (wait, that last isn't about experincing the car, it's about making sure the $#%!! job gets done ... wait for it ... perfectly)

LOL

So, can I be an avid motorcyclist, and be anti-Se? ... can you convince hustler that motorcycling isn't an S-thing? ;) That's not Se. That's a very shallow look at Se. One of the key components of Se is dominance issues. You have none. If anything you display anti-dominance.

[Ka.avik]

That's not Se. That's a very shallow look at Se.
Well, I think it would be easier to explain Se by starting with the zen of motorcycle maintanence -- and explain how power issues are resolved in the same reaction to the reaction to reaction; that dominance is the same as woodworking where you give more, or less, pressure to yield the results desired.

One of the key components of Se is dominance issues. You have none. If anything you display anti-dominance.
you mean, that I'm an anarchistic libertarian? Oh, OK then.

[Kljoki]

Well, I think it would be easier to explain Se by starting with the zen of motorcycle maintanence -- and explain how power issues are resolved in the same reaction to the reaction to reaction; that dominance is the same as woodworking where you give more, or less, pressure to yield the results desired.

I didn't understand your message. Perhaps if you rephrase it. But I'll tell you that maintenance of machinery and ensuring it works properly is usually the exclusive realm of the Si - Te type.



you mean, that I'm an anarchistic libertarian? Oh, OK then.What's an anarchistic libertarian?

[April]

I definitely identify with the INFj conscious agenda. I feel like that has more to do with Fi than Ne, though. Maybe not?

[Kljoki]

I definitely identify with the INFj conscious agenda. I feel like that has more to do with Fi than Ne, though. Maybe not? Theoretically it's all Ne. No Fi.

[Danielle]

Theoretically it's all Ne. No Fi.

Why is it Ne? I come from an MBTI background and I'm trying to understand this. If anyone else versed in Socionics can explain this, that would be cool too.

In MBTI, Ne is more of a hopes/possibilities/contexts function. Fi is the subjective valuing/moral perfection/individual right/wrong good/bad function.

What are these functions in Socionics? The only detailed information I can find on the functions from a Socionics perspective (in English) is at socion.info, and I think it is very haphazard and makes little sense at times. I don't see anything that ties Ne with perfection, but I'd love to understand the functions better from a Socionics perspective.

[INTrPosr]

Depends on your relationships with other people and their socionics type. Is there any agenda you identify with? That might help.Are you saying that in order for me to know my type, I have to depend on someone knowing theirs?

[Kljoki]

Why is it Ne? I come from an MBTI background and I'm trying to understand this. If anyone else versed in Socionics can explain this, that would be cool too.

In MBTI, Ne is more of a hopes/possibilities/contexts function. Fi is the subjective valuing/moral perfection/individual right/wrong good/bad function.

What are these functions in Socionics? The only detailed information I can find on the functions from a Socionics perspective (in English) is at socion.info, and I think it is very haphazard and makes little sense at times. I don't see anything that ties Ne with perfection, but I'd love to understand the functions better from a Socionics perspective. Because with these agenda functions one only strives and strives to an ideal. Having a Ne conscious agenda one strives to an ideal image of Ne. Not actually Ne.
At least that's how I understood it. Actually, this is my understanding:

I have a Ti hidden agenda. So even though in the process I use Ti, it is void in the whole process. It's like gaining money for the sake of gaining money, or being in love with the concept of love. Money or the other person lose meaning, become means and not the goal. They are separate from the process.
Getting caught up in such a process is getting caught up in a spiraling process. Often it's a downward spiral in terms of mental stability. This is where your dual steps in and fulfills those needs. Basically a prominent hidden, slash, conscious agenda is a tool to attract your dual. And a sign of problems arising in your psyche.

As to what the agendas are what they are, not really sure. My guess is that it has something to do with their essences.




Are you saying that in order for me to know my type, I have to depend on someone knowing theirs?
Well, you don't *have* to, but you can. That's the shortest and most reliable way of determining type.

[Jasz]

i rather "understand" than "know", knowing anything doesn't really mean much to me, particularly since i will NOT remember anything unless i understand it

[Eileen]

I connect to "to be loved" and "to be perfect." I think I lean toward the latter, but I'm not sure. I'm definitely an overt perfectionist, though I wonder how much of that is because I want people to love me.

*shrug*

[Kljoki]

i rather "understand" than "know", knowing anything doesn't really mean much to me, particularly since i will NOT remember anything unless i understand it You like ESFj-s, you're not INTp.

[Jasz]

You like ESFj-s, you're not INTp.

well, i like my wife, i am not sure if i would stretch it into a general rule, as she is very private and not extreme extroverted

i did test INTp on socionics but must confess i am not very familiar with socionics and the difference between INTP and INTp

enlighten me

[Kljoki]

well, i like my wife, i am not sure if i would stretch it into a general rule, as she is very private and not extreme extroverted

Perhaps she's not ESFj



i did test INTp on socionics but must confess i am not very familiar with socionics and the difference between INTP and INTp

enlighten me Well, one is a personality and the other one is a type.

[Eidolon]

Hmm I really don't care if I am loved just as long as I am comfortable. =c/ . In fact, sometimes I crave the opposite reaction. I like to know as well ...

[Krill]

INTp, ISTp => to know

Most definately. This is both concious, and in some cases unconcious. It drives a lot of what I do.

[Kljoki]

Hmm I really don't care if I am loved just as long as I am comfortable. =c/ . In fact, sometimes I crave the opposite reaction. I like to know as well ...
Well what is your socionics type?

[Eidolon]

When I was all depressed lol and depressing a few years ago, I was getting 2w1.. I am getting the slightly rebelling type now.. is it 4W5 or 5W4.. can't remember..

[INTrPosr]

Since my inquiry was not answered, I will state the obvious. If the socionics' system is based on relationships which means that the other person must know their type, then that clearly takes the control of knowing one's true or best type, out of their own hands. How can the average perceiver expect someone else to know their type, when they struggle with their own?

[Kljoki]

Since my inquiry was not answered,

It was

I will state the obvious. If the socionics' system is based on relationships which means that the other person must know their type,

The don't and it isn't

then that clearly takes the control of knowing one's true or best type, out of their own hands.

Yes and no

How can the average perceiver expect someone else to know their type, when they struggle with their own? Seems to me you are treating type as arbitrary. The entire presumption of socionics is that type is not arbitrary. Type would be inborn so even though you may not be consciously aware of your type you have one and it manifests itself.

I guess you are right, type is treated as out of our hands. That's also why you can determine other peoples type without them having a say in it.



EDIT: Perhaps I should rephrase my answer to your original inquiry

Are you saying that in order for me to know my type, I have to depend on someone knowing theirs?

You do not depend on their type. Yours and their type are both inborn. The exchange of the informational metabolism will happen according to the rules whether you know your type or don't.

[AllThingsConsidered]

kljoki what is your Socionics type? Just curious.

As far as I know in Socionics, testing alone is not the trusted method. It is testing, plus intertype relations. Some even add in other factors like facial expressions. The thought about relating to others is that many people can fake answers on tests or conform to a standard of society, but ultimately certain types will bring out certain uncontrolled behaviors from your psyche while interacting.
When I went to socioniko.net I took the test with picture and my results were:

Analyst (logical-intuitive introvert) LI 0.99 0.24 0.51279
Critic (intuitive-logical introvert) TP 0.98 0.23 0.48721

By a small margin that equates to LII, Analyst, INTj. Those were the two types I am always a bit torn between.

[Kljoki]

kljoki what is your Socionics type? Just curious. It's in my signature. It's kind of obvious.


As far as I know in Socionics, testing alone is not the trusted method. It is testing, plus intertype relations. Some even add in other factors like facial expressions. The thought about relating to others is that many people can fake answers on tests or conform to a standard of society, but ultimately certain types will bring out certain uncontrolled behaviors from your psyche while interacting.
Correct but there is more to it.


When I went to socioniko.net I took the test with picture and my results were:

Analyst (logical-intuitive introvert) LI 0.99 0.24 0.51279
Critic (intuitive-logical introvert) TP 0.98 0.23 0.48721

By a small margin that equates to LII, Analyst, INTj. Those were the two types I am always a bit torn between. Well you could spend some time here (http://the16types.no-ip.info/forums/) but I find this place much better for providing the distinction between those types.
From what I've observed ILI's are the one that form cliques while LII's don't.

[Arioch]

Most definately. This is both concious, and in some cases unconcious. It drives a lot of what I do.

I feel that I should point out that INTP (MBTI) does not always correspond with Socionics INTp. Especially since the function order is different (INTp's being Ni Te)

[AllThingsConsidered]

It's in my signature. It's kind of obvious.




Your type INTP was written like MBTI in capital letters, therefore I assumed you had listed your MBTI type. You had used a few codes before INFp, INFj so I thought I'd ask as it has changed.

I'm probably closest to socionics INTj and MBTI INTP. I don't think my qualities are extreme enough for either system to be a perfect match.