Public Opinions Forum

[Nemesis]

I guess what bothers me the most is I wonder or have to guess who is behind the requests to send so much to purgatory, or ban someone. Why do they have that much leverage here? They really aren't gods that can or should do this to others with no explanation, and if they think they are, they need to get a wet noodle to set them straight. Can we have a wet noodle icon for mods? Or perhaps can the regular posters have a place to 'grade' mods behaviors, and let them know what they are deficient in, and vice verse? Communication is great to get everyone on the same page, not so much to express bad stuff, but to put out absolute suggestions, which is what the suggestions thread is about .
I heartily agree.

[mgb]

I heartily agree.
So what do you suggest as an alternative to forum governance?

[coffeezombie]

A majority administrator vote can overturn the actions of any moderator or administrator here. Suffice it to say, there is a certain philosophy of what the administrators here think this board should be. The comments of individual members are listened to, of course, but there is an underlying philosophy that each of the administrators here have that I doubt will be changed no matter how much complaining is done.

[Nemesis]

A majority administrator vote can overturn the actions of any moderator or administrator here. Suffice it to say, there is a certain philosophy of what the administrators here think this board should be. The comments of individual members are listened to, of course, but there is an underlying philosophy that each of the administrators here have that I doubt will be changed no matter how much complaining is done.
I disagree. It seems to me that one of the underlying principles of the mods and admins in general is to keep the forum moving smoothly, and to keep a general state of peace. Hell, it's even stated in Shaytana's rules thread, and unless you really want eruptions that seem to happen with the changing winds as is demonstrated by this forum, maybe a public opinion forum would be a good idea.

[Nemesis]

So what do you suggest as an alternative to forum governance?
I'm not suggesting an alternative, I'm suggesting a little more accountability, in the form of seeing just how your decisions are going over with the forum at large. This is one step down from my original idea of having a forum that's invisible to the administration unless complaints of abuse are filed. I just don't really like how people seem to disappear around here when there is a disagreement with moderation. Yes, you can say it. It's partially because I fear my own disappearance.

[coffeezombie]

I disagree. It seems to me that one of the underlying principles of the mods and admins in general is to keep the forum moving smoothly, and to keep a general state of peace. Hell, it's even stated in Shaytana's rules thread, and unless you really want eruptions that seem to happen with the changing winds as is demonstrated by this forum, maybe a public opinion forum would be a good idea.
I never said a public opinion forum wasn't a good idea. And I think the philosophies of moderators and administrators can change based upon what people say in such a forum. I am just pointing out that people here can't expect mods and admins to suddenly agree with their own philosophies just because they are expressed in a forum. We are all individuals with our own ways of looking at things, and I have no qualms about explaining my own philosophy here and how I look at things. I consider myself open for criticism.

[Vagabond]

I just don't really like how people seem to disappear around here when there is a disagreement with moderation. Yes, you can say it. It's partially because I fear my own disappearance.
Yes, it is our private MIB abducting members who stand in the way of our Great Plan to conquer the world... come on, nemesis; snap out of it, you are making me worry.

[Rhu]

Fallout from forum politics would sound more fun and interesting if, instead of majority admin votes, a rule of overriding consensus were implemented.

If Moderator A does something questionable, and Moderators B and C can agree to overturn it, then it gets overturned. Moderator A feels snubbed, and convinces his pals D and E to overturn the overturning of his action. It could all happen over the course of five confusing minutes.

Voting blocs, infighting, temporary alliances, tie-breaker votes... You mods and admins would be the celebrities you never wanted to be. "coffeezombie pwns joo" tea-shirts would be available for sale alongside the existing "What Would Hustler Do" coffee mugs.

[coffeezombie]

Voting blocs, infighting, temporary alliances, tie-breaker votes... You mods and admins would be the celebrities you never wanted to be. "coffeezombie pwns joo" tea-shirts would be available for sale alongside the existing "What Would Hustler Do" coffee mugs.
Moderators have limited power compared to admins, as to be an administrator you have to ideally be a long time member and respected by both the other admins and the majority of the board, which I would say describes the current administrative staff well.

We are trying to be fair here, not a reality television show. Heh

[Nemesis]

Yes, it is our private MIB abducting members who stand in the way of our Great Plan to conquer the world... come on, nemesis; snap out of it, you are making me worry.
If you're not going to take it seriously, I'd prefer you didn't respond. Thanks.

[mgb]

I'm not suggesting an alternative, I'm suggesting a little more accountability, in the form of seeing just how your decisions are going over with the forum at large. This is one step down from my original idea of having a forum that's invisible to the administration unless complaints of abuse are filed. I just don't really like how people seem to disappear around here when there is a disagreement with moderation. Yes, you can say it. It's partially because I fear my own disappearance.

Look, it's really quite impossible to start a forum the admins and mods can't see. The software doesn't allow it, I'm pretty sure no forum software does.

And what level of decision do you want accountability for? Bannings? Thread moving? Just stuff you don't agree with?

Like I said, there suggestion box doubles as a complaints box, so it's probably not needed. I'm also saying that because threads like waxwing's which is where the quote in OP is from, are quite allowed to keep going.

[Vagabond]

If you're not going to take it seriously, I'd prefer you didn't respond. Thanks.
Take *what* seriously? That members disappear because they disagree with moderation? Like who?

If you are going to start creating impressions, better back them up. If you are of the opinion that someone was unfairly banned, why not just say who you are talking about and we might be able to clarify the whats and hows.

If anything, you should recognise that you personally have not been banned, despite the fact that you have been warned repeatedly for the same offense over and over again (picking on bergenski - the same goes for him), and despite the 3 warnings policy; specifically because we realise it was not a deliberate attempt of either of you to ruin the board. Why didn't you or bergenski "disappear", like everyone else you are suggesting? Why am I and other mods here discussing this, and not just making you "disappear" since you obviously disagree with our practices, if that's what you say that happens?

[mgb]

Two Js going at it.

http://members.aol.com/greg51090/images/quagmire.jpg

(edit add: I wanted not to post that, but I couldn't help it)

[Nemesis]

Take *what* seriously? That members disappear because they disagree with moderation? Like who?

If you are going to start creating impressions, better back them up. If you are of the opinion that someone was unfairly banned, why not just say who you are talking about and we might be able to clarify the whats and hows.

If anything, you should recognise that you personally have not been banned, despite the fact that you have been warned repeatedly for the same offense over and over again (picking on bergenski - the same goes for him), and despite the 3 warnings policy; specifically because we realise it was not a deliberate attempt of either of you to ruin the board. Why didn't you or bergenski "disappear", like everyone else you are suggesting? Why am I and other mods here discussing this, and not just making you "disappear" since you obviously disagree with our practices, if that's what you say that happens?
Alright, first off, that wasn't even the focus of my post, thank you very much. However, I'm speaking about the likes of ferunandesu. I liked ferunandesu. He was a tad odd and more than a bit quirky, yes, but that was part of what made him chuckleworthy. He's sort of like that Jack Sparrow, wily uncle type, you know, the one your parents never talk about, but you know he's cool anyway. I was given leniency and many others were. I forget what his offense was, but he apparently was not shown mercy, and I can't help but feel that it was because the higher-ups just didn't like him. And just to point out exactly why I feel this way, look at Snowflake, he was free to roam the boards and commit utter and horrendous Snowflakery for ages before he was banned, whilst ferunandesu was caught in Purgatory, simply because he was nonsensical. And the reason I say "disappear" is because there wasn't even an announcement that he was banned.

Secondly, this is exactly what I'm pointing out. Such inconsistency in moderation. I like that the rules are flexible and not stiff like a board. That doesn't mean that they should be bendier than a stick of bubblegum. If you guys want to see how people are feeling, then I strongly advise that this forum be created. I don't expect you to do so though, which I think is a bad decision.

[Nemesis]

Look, it's really quite impossible to start a forum the admins and mods can't see. The software doesn't allow it, I'm pretty sure no forum software does.

And what level of decision do you want accountability for? Bannings? Thread moving? Just stuff you don't agree with?

Like I said, there suggestion box doubles as a complaints box, so it's probably not needed. I'm also saying that because threads like waxwing's which is where the quote in OP is from, are quite allowed to keep going.
The complaint forum is about as effective as complaining to the U.S. Supreme court and you know it. I'm past the fact that you'll be able to see it. Hell, I'd be happy with a promise that you wouldn't look at it, but I'm not even pressing for that.

[Claverhouse]

http://www.intpcentral.com/uploads/i93487636_16622.gif


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[mgb]

The complaint forum is about as effective as complaining to the U.S. Supreme court and you know it. I'm past the fact that you'll be able to see it. Hell, I'd be happy with a promise that you wouldn't look at it, but I'm not even pressing for that.
Send PMs then.

Start your own forum, everyone is doing it.

What you want is improbable.

[Nemesis]

Send PMs then.

Start your own forum, everyone is doing it.

What you want is improbable.
Do you even know what it is that I want? I'm not sure, so I'm asking.

[mgb]

Do you even know what it is that I want? I'm not sure, so I'm asking.

Well, you've asked like three time for a forum invisible to mods and admins. So, I'm fairly certain that's what you want. And, I've told you every time it's not going to happen because it's pretty impossible to do.

I think you'd also like some clarity on the decision making. And since we don't even have that, you probably aren't going to get that either.

I'm wondering how constructive your requests really are.

[Conan]

The complaint forum is about as effective as complaining to the U.S. Supreme court and you know it. I'm past the fact that you'll be able to see it. Hell, I'd be happy with a promise that you wouldn't look at it, but I'm not even pressing for that.

You don't "complain" to the Supreme Court, you file an appeal. And that can be pretty effective. Bad analogy, that's all.

[Nemesis]

Well, you've asked like three time for a forum invisible to mods and admins. So, I'm fairly certain that's what you want. And, I've told you every time it's not going to happen because it's pretty impossible to do.

I think you'd also like some clarity on the decision making. And since we don't even have that, you probably aren't going to get that either.

I'm wondering how constructive your requests really are.
No, that's not what I'm asking for. What I'm asking for is a Public Opinion Forum, although I'm kinda past it now. I was just in a bit of "fight the powa" mood last night. Sorry :)

[Nemesis]

You don't "complain" to the Supreme Court, you file an appeal. And that can be pretty effective. Bad analogy, that's all.
You know what I meant, and maybe I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that around 1% of hearings requested of the Supreme Court were ever granted.