Thinking about game design

[distraction tactics]

There are many programmers on this site - have you ever considered doing hobby game-work, or have you ever programmed any games? When I used to be into programming, this was always an interest of mine, but I never really did anything with it.

But I was looking through some of my old stuff the other day:
-MS Visual C++ 6.0
-DirectX SDK 5.0
-(game) Programming books of all kinds

It kind of inspired to think 'why not?' I'd love to give it a shot again, I even have an idea for a simulator with a trapper/trader/settler/outpost theme. Random features:

-Building model: settlements, military outposts, farms, mines, trapping lines, logging camps, fishing docks.

-Unit model: musketmen, farmers, trappers, voyagers, settlers, indian warriors, miners, workers/artisans.

-Resource model: Think 'Civ'. Each settlement is supported by, say, '10 food', each unit '1 food'. Farms produce '20 food'.

-Economic model - perhaps stand alone, or givern strictly by resource model (for simplicity in play and programming). Exports/imports.

-Political diplomatic model: various native tribes, neighbouring companies, neighbouring states. Engage in war, trade, dimplomacy, and aid with each. Sub-models.

Map: Isometric, say 1000x1000 tiles. Map editor/randomizer. Sections of northern brushland, shield country, and farming plains.

I'd also like to work in some dry humour as well. Think 'Tropico'. You could have a civic model where you can regulate your workforce/community through various laws and edicts. Farming, perhaps you could grow marihuana fields for a little extra profit. Maybe have a smuggling sub-economic model. Breweries and distilleries... local tribe giving you trouble and killing units? Dispense some booze.

Another idea is a humantarian model - you can keep an eye on the physical/mental health of your and surrounding communties. You can be benevolent to neighbouring states and tribes if you please, or cruel. You can assimilate their societies, or round them up with military force and subjugate them.

In general, I'm thinking of a stripped-down twist on Civ, Age of Emipres, and Roller Coaster Tycoon.

--

Any thoughts or ideas related specifically to mine, or game programming in general?

[KuJo]

i always wanted to design games, but i only worked with the map design aspect of it. mainly because my programming skills are horrible, and i really mean that. i cant program. I did build a bunch of maps for Half-life 2, doom 3, and UT2k4.

i could never really program anything, but i ended up learning a lot about modding through changing hundreds of variables. so if you really wanted to learn about game design, working on a mod would be one way to start.

[distraction tactics]

i always wanted to design games, but i only worked with the map design aspect of it. mainly because my programming skills are horrible, and i really mean that. i cant program. I did build a bunch of maps for Half-life 2, doom 3, and UT2k4.

i could never really program anything, but i ended up learning a lot about modding through changing hundreds of variables. so if you really wanted to learn about game design, working on a mod would be one way to start.

True, but that's admittedly not my area of interest. I've always had an affinity for simulations. When I was a kid I spent hours in my sandbox building worlds and shit like that... then when I got SC2000... wow, I was blown away. Probably played that game daily for a year straight.

I'm thinking now I'd like to try my hand at it. Clearly, I am out of my league at this present time, but I think it's doable. The biggest pitfalls in my mind would be creating the preliminary engine, and then creating the various models and having them work with each other. That will take some time.

[KuJo]

i was always more interested in the physical aspect of the game, and not the underlying code that made it work. while i tried my hand at programming, i knew i could do better with artwork than code. i havent had the time to get into texturing and bulding models, because i have been devoting most of my time to guitar. with guitar i get results right there. with textures it can take a week to get one apsect right(i did try earlier in the year).

maybe you should try to mod a simcity game, then you could see how it works and make the changes to an existing engine to make it the way you want it. just a thought.

[distraction tactics]

i was always more interested in the physical aspect of the game, and not the underlying code that made it work. while i tried my hand at programming, i knew i could do better with artwork than code. i havent had the time to get into texturing and bulding models, because i have been devoting most of my time to guitar. with guitar i get results right there. with textures it can take a week to get one apsect right(i did try earlier in the year).

maybe you should try to mod a simcity game, then you could see how it works and make the changes to an existing engine to make it the way you want it. just a thought.

That would be one approach, but I'd use either the first or second version as opposed to SC3/4K for the sheer simplicity. Doing anything more than Tetris or PacMan as a first project is stupid; trying to hack a modern engine would be suicidal.

However, GameDev (http://www.gamedev.net) has some good info on isometric engines, and I think I could build one myself...

[KuJo]

you have to start somewhere. so you might as well try....

[distraction tactics]

Well, I've got until Friday off... see how much programming I can relearn in that amount of time. :D

[KuJo]

i took one semester of a programming class. the other semester was a photoshop course, which i got a 100 in. In programming I got a 33 on the exam, even lower than the kid with learning disabilities (who got a 35).
1. the teacher didnt like my sense of humor and
2. i really suck at programming.

this is a motivational story.

[distraction tactics]

Boof.

On the other hand, I've heard the e-legends of guys getting hired simply for their modding accomplishments...

[charred_heart]

with guitar i get results right there. with textures it can take a week to get one apsect right(i did try earlier in the year).you should try Illustrator. It will give you the results you need. That is if you have actual design talent, not just image manipulation. Try it, it will change how you design on the PC ;)


i was always more interested in the physical aspect of the game, and not the underlying code that made it work. while i tried my hand at programming, i knew i could do better with artwork than code.same here. Modding with the Doom 3 engine was a blast, I did a couple of post processing effect scripts for it (glow effect and blurring). If I could get together with a writer and a model designer I'd be able to fulfill an old dream of mine. I too am more interested in the resulting game than in the beauty of the engine. I forced myself to learn immediate mode Diirectx 7 in university, which ended up in me failing the graphics programming course -a C is bad anyway- because I did not study anything from the course (Borland C crap). That did not make me into a fully fledged coder, but I can learn scripting languages quickly and I understand the concepts behind matrix transformation and the rendering pipeline.

[KuJo]

well, i actually enjoyed using source a lot. it was really fun. the results were fairly quick and i could be in the game playing my level pretty quickly. unfortunately my designs were never fully realized and my levels were always on the cutting room floor. I would need someone with a good idea on a simple design and i could work on the artsy aspect of it. like texturing, lighting, and props. i enjoy making the level look good, which is why my levels always lacked in playability. i could easily go right back to it though.

unfortunately finding people good at what you want is pretty damn hard. it also takes a lot of time which turns most people off. its a hard life for people who actually want to work on designing games.

[Frigus]

Sounds like a great game idea to me. (: Simulation games have always been a favorite of mine. I was heartbroken, I tell you, when I lost my RollerCoaster Tycoon CD.

On the other side of the coin, though, I can't offer any advice or suggestions on any of the programming or design...

If you really want to make it, though, it's worth taking the time to practice beforehand.

I know that if I don't stretch a project out and take breaks to do something else every few days, I lose interest too quickly and get distracted.

When working on something for a few hours, I have to stop and at least occupy myself with something else for about half an hour, so I won't become naturally distracted from the project.

Well, there's my two cents. Good luck, if you pursue it... if you don't... you shouldn't lead people on like that. =P

[spasmfrog]

There are many programmers on this site - have you ever considered doing hobby game-work, or have you ever programmed any games? When I used to be into programming, this was always an interest of mine, but I never really did anything with it.
Yes, hobby game programming is the SHIZNITE! Real life forced me to take a break from it a few months ago but as soon as I have time I'm going to get back into it. There's nothing better than having a few solid beta testers and lots of playtesters to give you instant feedback.

[rainfall]

i always wanted to design games, but i only worked with the map design aspect of it. mainly because my programming skills are horrible, and i really mean that. i cant program. I did build a bunch of maps for Half-life 2, doom 3, and UT2k4.

i could never really program anything, but i ended up learning a lot about modding through changing hundreds of variables. so if you really wanted to learn about game design, working on a mod would be one way to start.

Is there a way that I may take a look at any of the hl2 maps? Just curious.

[Rohsiph]

I grew up playing videogames, and now spend a worthwhile amount of time considering game design problems.

I have a number of feasible game design ideas in my head, though I continue to avoid penning design docs. Last year, I attempted to translate a short play I wrote into a traditional 2d, overhead-perspective RPG using RPGMaker XP software by Enterbrain.

My results (a very short, buggy demo) can be downloaded here (http://rohsiph.dragonfort.net/game/demo/Ladder.zip), and a concept page that has not been updated in 10 months is here (http://rohsiph.dragonfort.net/game/jez.html).

I achieved most of my initial goal, but burnt out upon releasing the demo. Were I to take on a project with other people working on elements of design I am not very capable with (especially: programming, animation, world continuity, event scripting), I imagine I could produce something worth a closer look.

[Nighthawk]

Game design and programming have always been dreams of mine as well. I also have some dusty books on the shelf about sprites, game engines, and rendering. It all took a back seat to financial software ... which is currently where I make my income. Since games have become such huge undertakings nowadays, making something simple like the early side-scrollers is really no longer an option. I wouldn't mind getting into making some game mods or add-ons though. Time is the only issue.

[rainfall]

I want to make a mod for HL 2. A rather simple mod(using most of orginal skins and weapons) so most of the mod is just coding. Of which I know completely absolutely nothing. So the desire just sits there, inundated by negative thinking.

[Rohsiph]

. . . Since games have become such huge undertakings nowadays, making something simple like the early side-scrollers is really no longer an option. . .

On a mass-audience scale, this may well be the case. However, I am awaiting a brilliant return to many of the classic side-scrolling themes of the 8-bit era (if not the Atari age as well).

Indeed, one of my most prized design project ideas is to meld newer concepts into a classic side-scrolling formula--to a degree. Think Super Metroid, if you are familiar with the title, but with more emphasis on story and NPC interaction (as has been the trend with most 3d genres).

The indie gaming scene may be entering a golden age with the advent of networks like the XBox Live Marketplace--which is allowing old (non-massive, 2d) formulas to breathe in new light.

[Nighthawk]

The indie gaming scene may be entering a golden age with the advent of networks like the XBox Live Marketplace--which is allowing old (non-massive, 2d) formulas to breathe in new light.

That would certainly be cool. I hope you are right.

[Rohsiph]

Me too.

I have been following the vocal Internet game dev community for close to two and a half years now. When I started reading, the devs were clamoring for more innovative, independent structures in the industry. They were tired of the capitalistic path the industry has seemingly been taking since Nintendo revitalized everything in the mid-80s.

This was before Nintendo announced the now-named Wii-mote, before Valve began offering indie-type games on their own Steam network, and before XBox Live Marketplace launched (and then started selling small-time, "oldschool" type games).

Though the core problems the devs were raising two years ago still apply (namely, the still-increasing cost--of both time and money--of triple-A development), the market for indie-games has been growing substantially for the first time since shareware-based distribution lost its momentum.

Nintendo is promising to offer a service similar to the Live Marketplace, intending to sell a significant portion of previous console libraries (NES, SNES, Genesis, N64, and more) sold online for their console due out late October or early November. Sony's model is still unclear, but it would be a shot in the foot if they did not offer some form of small-price, downloadable gaming with their upcoming console as well.

Of course, this is about /console/ gaming--indie PC gaming, aside from casual puzzle-types that appeal to general audiences, is still very small-time.

[The Ninth Ninja]

There are many programmers on this site - have you ever considered doing hobby game-work, or have you ever programmed any games? When I used to be into programming, this was always an interest of mine, but I never really did anything with it.

...

Any thoughts or ideas related specifically to mine, or game programming in general?

Yes, I've tried to do some home game projects but if I spend all day at work programming, even the thought of doing it when I get home is repulsive. And I do need a better social life!

If you are starting out though, I'd recommend checking out some middleware libraries to make your life easier (there's no point in re-inventing the wheel... unless you want to understand how the wheel works or make a better wheel :)). For 2D stuff, I've heard good things about SDL and for 3D, OGRE's a pretty good choice, although I haven't used either.
I'd love to get back into it, but as per usual, I usually keep procrastinating about whether the idea is any good or not. :stereotype:

[macr0]

My first real programming hobby which got me interesting in the field was writing MUD servers. (multi-user text-based games). From doing low level socket coding up to writing in embedded runtime languages.

I wrote Tetris when I was an intern in college because I had nothing better to do.

I had a feint want to make a network-based isometric game, but I never did anything concrete.

I also did a bit of Unreal Tournament map creation and editing.

[ptGatsby]

I have a dream to integrating a diplomacy + risk hybird that would be played in person... Like a vacation resort.

The world would run via a world simulator, along with a few oversight GMs. The goal is to make the rules open ended as possible - the GMs are responsible for putting them into 'machine code' to feed into the simulator.

The dream would be to create a 'victorian' (replace period of time at will...) era mansion (ie: hotel), where the game would run for a fairly long time - probably about 2 weeks in RL. People would be wholly immersed into the world - that is, you got your balls and galas, you got your dinners and meals... and you have your secluded gardens and all that. In that sense, pure diplomacy.

Nothing to do with the programming side, but...

I wanted to watch the world develop as people fought over things... I think it'd make a great psychology experiment too. And maybe even a reality show!

[XLr8tor]

I have a dream ...!

Sounds fascinating, having played both Diplomacy and Risk and Shogun... I don't have any programming skills, but I've done a lot of table-top simulation gaming and, in college, once participated in a 90-player extended event focused on Presidential politics. I've also envisioned simulations focused on disaster response.

Three areas you might want to check out for further inquiry... the North American Simulation and Gaming Association (where membership is free), learningtimes, and the collective wisdom initiative (Google them up, as I'm a newbie here and can't post links).

[HilbertSpace]

Game programming in general is fun, but as an industry it's kind of a sweat shop. The work is hard and the money isn't what it is in other areas of software development. There are a few exceptions to this (I've heard id is one of them), but for the most part it's not something I'd advise someone to get into these days. While the internet companies were handing out 6 figure salaries and stock options, the game companies were offering 50k or less with few benefits, long hours, and oppressive schedules (which is one reason why so few games actually manage to launch on time). They get away with it because most of the guys who go into it are too young and inexperienced to know better, and because literally everyone who does computers fantasizes about working in the game industry at one point or another.

However, there is a lot of interest in modeling and simulation in industry, academia, and government fields that provides (in general) a better work environment, and better rewards.

[garak]

I've made a game in pygame that's mostly completed (though missing a lot of finishing touches). I have looked somewhat heavily into indie game development, but mostly I'm just too busy working 9-5 to do much about it right now.

The hardest part is selling your game, and it's also probably the least enjoyable part.