Goths and Emos.......

[Tranzors]

Goths and Emos are stupid. They are non-conformist conformists, complain a lot, and hate the world, but they've got the world, a lot of them live in good houses with parents who are paid lots.

Not really a thing to complain about, but i'm bored. So Sue me.

[Niflheimian]

"Non-conformist conformists" indeed. I might add to the list Skaters and Punks and...not sure what they're called..."niggas," I think they call themselves, to be politically incorrect (you know, oversized clothes, butchering of the English language, etc.- the sort of thing rappers endorse). It's a shame people are so much alike these days. Just step into one of America's high schools and you'll see the massive conformity and peer pressure in action. We need more individuality. Only one more reason the INTPs of the planet should unite and form their own society.

[flan2dave]

I'm intrigued by any sort of thing that goes against the usual, but if I actually got to know any of them I would probably find out it's pretty superficial, as you say. Still interesting, especially if done with originality. I tend to like gothic sort of art and atmosphere. But more generally, dark themes.

[Tranzors]

"Non-conformist conformists" indeed. I might add to the list Skaters and Punks and...not sure what they're called..."niggas," I think they call themselves, to be politically incorrect (you know, oversized clothes, butchering of the English language, etc.- the sort of thing rappers endorse). It's a shame people are so much alike these days. Just step into one of America's high schools and you'll see the massive conformity and peer pressure in action. We need more individuality. Only one more reason the INTPs of the planet should unite and form their own society.

Is that stuff an E trait or SF trait?

[Niflheimian]

I'd hardly say these subcultures are going against the norm; they are becomming the norm, and certainly part of it now. Through observation I've noticed that most are merely poseurs.

Just to set the record straight, I meant "Ghetto" in the earlier post.


Is that stuff an E trait or SF trait?

Certainly some sort of SP attributes. Most likely E as well.

[Nindy]

Tranzors: you seem very biased.
Not every Goth and not every Emo complains a lot, as goes for hating the world.

I am what would be considered a Goth; not to be a non-conformist conformist but because I simply like the clothes, music and philosophy behind it, and since I do what I like and wear what I like I couldn't care less about whether others are into it as well or not.
This doesn't mean I wear Goth-clothes all the time and listen to that specific genre of music exclusively, there are other things out there that I like, but the Gothic clothing and music simply receive my preference.
At my school only little are into it, due to clothing and taste in music we have more 'alternatives' here.
But no matter what label you fall under or if you fall under a label, everyone stays unique anyway, so you can subcategorize every single style indefinately.

[Tranzors]

"Not really a thing to complain about"


Changed my mind. Actually, it is. I'd respect a man for who they are. If a man is a murderer and enjoys doing it, and enjoys it, i'll respect him more than a second rate copy of [random rapper/rockstar]. Actually it's the other way around, i'm having a brain fart and I don't know a better way of saying it, but you get the main gist of it.

But should I get off my high horse and accept it? I think it's kind of arrogant, but it's good arrogance. *shrug*

"Tranzors: you seem very biased.
Not every Goth and not every Emo complains a lot, as goes for hating the world.

I am what would be considered a Goth; not to be a non-conformist conformist but because I simply like the clothes, music and philosophy behind it, and since I do what I like and wear what I like I couldn't care less about whether others are into it as well or not.
This doesn't mean I wear Goth-clothes all the time and listen to that specific genre of music exclusively, there are other things out there that I like, but the Gothic clothing and music simply receive my preference.
At my school only little are into it, due to clothing and taste in music we have more 'alternatives' here.
But no matter what label you fall under or if you fall under a label, everyone stays unique anyway, so you can subcategorize every single style indefinately"

I'd consider you a man who loves dark things. Not a Goth. By Goth, I mean spoiled kids who cut themselves.

[Niflheimian]

I'd consider you a man who loves dark things. Not a Goth. By Goth, I mean spoiled kids who cut themselves.
Following your rule, this may be a good description for emo:
Emo-boy gets all dressed up in his punk clothes, makes his hair look spiffy for all the people to notice, takes a walk to the local park, sits on a bench, and sobs as loudly as possible.
Granted, it's an extreme; but it does embody "emo" well.


Few teenagers or young adults would admit to being gothic or emo because everyone else is; however, this is the case for most of them.
The reasons for voluntarily identifying with and participating in a subculture are often based on conformity. Most people will tell you that they dress the way they do because "it's just me," or "I'm expressing myself." Piffle. I don't mean just the clothes, but the whole package. As long as you've a decent and logical rationale behind it, go for it. If not, you lose at least my respect, if that holds any weight at all.

Theoretically, yes: everyone is unique; but I'm beginning to disagree.

The blocks! The stones! The worse than senseless things!

[Nindy]

I'd consider you a man who loves dark things. Not a Goth. By Goth, I mean spoiled kids who cut themselves.
So you confuse actual Gothicism with mental illness? Self-harm has nothing to do with the Gothic subculture. Some have sadly enough associated this with Gothicism, and that despite there being just as many 'preps' who cut themselves as goths. Not all people who cut themselves are spoiled. Cutting is a way of dealing with emotion and/or emptiness, an outlet for those who can't find anything else to express themselves in or who not gain enough satisfaction from expressing themselves in other ways. Endorphine makes it addictive. I admit that there are some people out there who abuse cutting to receive negative attention, but most don't. And besides, those people are mentally ill too.

And if that 'man' responds to me, I am female.

[Niflheimian]

Okay, so there are two gothic subcultures: actual goths and poseur goths. The majority are poseurs, though; unless convicing evidence is presented that suggests otherwise, I will cling fast to my view.

[flan2dave]

I guess I haven't been to high schools enough to know how pervasive it really is. At least the kids are finding something to focus on, until they're bored of the style.

The rich kids cut themselves eh? I guess they're all torn up with guilt for their comfortable lifestyle, but are unable (for whatever reasons, probably bad ones) to find more productive coping strategies.

[Tranzors]

So you confuse actual Gothicism with mental illness? Self-harm has nothing to do with the Gothic subculture. Some have sadly enough associated this with Gothicism, and that despite there being just as many 'preps' who cut themselves as goths. Not all people who cut themselves are spoiled. Cutting is a way of dealing with emotion and/or emptiness, an outlet for those who can't find anything else to express themselves in or who not gain enough satisfaction from expressing themselves in other ways. Endorphine makes it addictive. I admit that there are some people out there who abuse cutting to receive negative attention, but most don't. And besides, those people are mentally ill too.

And if that 'man' responds to me, I am female.

No I'm not confusing Gothicism with a mental illness. But a lot of Goths are mentally ill, or are in an identity crisis...the majority of "poser" Goths. Goth culture is messed up because of those "poser" Goths.

[Sackanaka]

I have to laugh when I see this thread so here goes : :rofl:

I admit, I do get a bit antsy around "the fakies" but I constantly try to remind myself that I don't know them, probably don't care to, and that everyone's struggling to maintain a stable identity; that is, a way to cope with life.

[ohnoaninfp]

I'm intrigued by any sort of thing that goes against the usual, but if I actually got to know any of them I would probably find out it's pretty superficial, as you say. Still interesting, especially if done with originality. I tend to like gothic sort of art and atmosphere. But more generally, dark themes.
Me too. I like dressing in black clothes, because I feel more comfortable in them. What in the hell is an Emo?

[Nindy]

What in the hell is an Emo?Emo is short for emotional. It's a broad title that covers a lot of different styles of emotionally-charged punk-rock.

[cjs55]

Self-Pity rocks!!

...

[jimkopelli]

A large portion of the poseurs will claim to have something wrong mentally whether they do or not... I knew one guy who wore wristbands to "cover the scars"... only there weren't any scars.


There's probably more than two types.

[hemanthraz]

well i dont know why but dressing in black is considered anti-social. Maybe goths dress in black to keep away the uninvited conversations. Also being a goth is not just music and leather and body mangling. Art is a major part too.

[Werdna]

My sister is something of a goth and she listens to emo music. She painted her room black when we lived with our parents among other things.
People feel they need to belong somewhere and at the same time they want to be nonconformists... hmm. So they conform to a minority instead. It's kind of sad but for most of them it's just a phase and they'll get over it. My sister occasionally wears other colors than black nowadays.
As INTP's we're supposed to hate delusions right? I guess that's why all of you seem to dislike them so much. But they have their own logic and they don't see it the way you describe it.

[jittus rye]

I always thought most gothic punk type people were non-conformist conformists. Indeed many of them may like the style, personally I think many of the females are attractive when dressing that way, but of course there are those who do it to be non-conforming, and that is the kind of stupid !@#$ that pisses me off.

[Serotonin]

*snickers*
Reminds me of the recent South Park episode where the fourth goth kid says "I'm so non-conformist that I'm actually going to conform. I'll join your dance posse". Did anyone else find that episode completely hilarious? Butters' tap dance to "I've got Something in my Front Pocket for You", had me rotflmao.
Apparently non-conformism is an Fi thing. Combining with SP and a tendency to withdraw from the mainstream maybe a typical goth would most likely be an ISFP. But that doesn't mean ISFPs are likely to be goths.

[Sackanaka]

I did find that conformity part especially funny! :D

Too bad most people seem to just take South Park as comedy without considering its heavy political/ethical satire. :/

[Chill]

I did find that conformity part especially funny! :D

Too bad most people seem to just take South Park as comedy without considering its heavy political/ethical satire. :/

What makes South Park (and Daily Show incidentally) is that there are levels to the comedy. There are the jokes that everyone enjoys, but you can look deeper and see the extensive satire behind it.

[cloakable]

Combining with SP and a tendency to withdraw from the mainstream maybe a typical goth would most likely be an ISFP. But that doesn't mean ISFPs are likely to be goths.

You know, one of my nieces has goth tendencies (black trenchcoat, likes Marilyn Manson etc), and she types as an ISFP.

[mgb]

What makes South Park (and Daily Show incidentally) is that there are levels to the comedy. There are the jokes that everyone enjoys, but you can look deeper and see the extensive satire behind it.

I find the levels of the Simpson's funnier. I remember when Bart was watching South Park in like their 300th episode and he went, "60 episodes, I don't how they keep it so fresh." Or something. It was hilarious.

[cjs55]

South Park is definitely the most intelligent satire I've seen in...a long time. The Simpons seems fairly outdated comparatively I think. That said, its getting old. They always like to debunk popular opinion on a certain subject, and I generally agree with them. The popular opinion taken for granted is almost always wrong in some way.