Smoking No Longer Cool??

[Conan]

It seems to me as though there is actually social pressure against smoking these days. From advertising, to movies, to political lobbying, the anti-smoking campaigns have effectively altered people's perception of smokers from cool social rebels to weak-minded individuals who have fallen prey to the manipulative cigarette corporations. States are passing laws against smoking in bars and restaurants, there are much fewer "cool" celebrities flaunting the habit, and generally it seems as though people who light up are increasingly shunned by the majority non-smoking population.

Is there any accuracy to this perception or am I just getting old?

[joft]

try Smoking is Fucking Retarded and I Wish You'd Die Faster So I Didn't Have To Smell You Anymore

[Ponderous]

I think you're exactly right. I hear more and more folks at work saying how their kids are encouraging them to quit. I've also heard smokers who are new to work ask sheepishly where to go to smoke. It's like there's a bit of embarrassment to it, at least in this little corner of the world.

[Claverhouse]

Who cares ? One doesn't smoke or do anything else to be cool. One does it because one wants to.


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[abathur]

Well, I don't really care about people smoking in general, but it does carry some stigma in how I perceive others. As far as selecting possible mates goes, smoking is one of my big turnoffs. I won't unilaterally say I wouldn't enter a relationship with a smoker, but I would be thinking in the back of my head that at some point I'm going to refuse to take the relationship to any "next level" until they've quit and been clean a while.

With friends, again, I don't really care as long as it isn't in my face. The smoke really fucks my sinuses good, so if a friend wants to smoke around me I'll tell them straight up that it's good as long as they keep it out of my face, but that I'll walk off on them if they can't. Otherwise, I usually still care about my friends, so I do apply a little bit of pressure towards them quitting, in general. I try not to be overbearing in that, and to encourage them when they attempt to quit.

So, yeah, not very cool. At least not in my book.

[songbird36]

I see Philip Morris has just lost a big lawsuit in the US for deception relating to the effects of smoking. Apparently it was asserted that smoking is not harmful to a fetus when a woman is pregnant..

[Conan]

Who cares ? One doesn't smoke or do anything else to be cool. One does it because one wants to.


Claverhouse :ph34r:

The matter is whether the general perception of the people with this habit has been changed significantly, regardless of these people's motivation for smoking in the first place.

[Claverhouse]

But why would the perception of the multitude ( or any minority whose beliefs and attitudes I despise ) matter ?


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Krill]

But why would the perception of the multitude ( or any minority whose beliefs and attitudes I despise ) matter ?


Claverhouse :ph34r:

You're mixing up normative with descriptive.

[Conan]

I don't know. I suppose because understanding the mindset of the multitude is a part of understanding your environment. Because in turn, this can offer insight into the ways people's perceptions are forged and manipulated on a mass scale. Because if such a change in perception is real, it can have cultural implications that affect everyone. To name a few.

[Claverhouse]

I don't know. I suppose because understanding the mindset of the multitude is a part of understanding your environment.

I have no desire to end by shooting myself on top of a bunker.


Because in turn, this can offer insight into the ways people's perceptions are forged and manipulated on a mass scale.

Which has been catalogued since Gustav Le Bon through Edward Berneys to Karl Rove.


Because if such a change in perception is real, it can have cultural implications that affect everyone.

Only the weak-minded, and they don't really matter in the short run, let alone the long.


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Electric]

Who cares ? One doesn't smoke or do anything else to be cool. One does it because one wants to.


Claverhouse :ph34r:

True. Verrrrrrrry true. Smoking helps you think. People either do it because they don't know addiction, fit in, helps them think, or all three. For example, smoking relaxes soldiers so they can think in dangerous situation. Beer does this too.

[Stoic]

Smoking will always be cool because the straight-edge anti-smoking forces will always be wretchedly uncool. Any group that tries to get you to do something is usually perceived as uncool and anal.

[Krill]

Smoking will always be cool because the straight-edge anti-smoking forces will always be wretchedly uncool. Any group that tries to get you to do something is usually perceived as uncool and anal.

Although it'd be nice if folks didn't light up in your house without asking (which notches the cool factor down).

[Stoic]

One doesn't smoke or do anything else to be cool.

Do you really believe that?

[Claverhouse]

Do you really believe that?

Yes. Why rationally would you attempt to be cool ?


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Leftfield]

It seems to me as though there is actually social pressure against smoking these days. From advertising, to movies, to political lobbying, the anti-smoking campaigns have effectively altered people's perception of smokers from cool social rebels to weak-minded individuals who have fallen prey to the manipulative cigarette corporations. States are passing laws against smoking in bars and restaurants, there are much fewer "cool" celebrities flaunting the habit, and generally it seems as though people who light up are increasingly shunned by the majority non-smoking population.

Is there any accuracy to this perception or am I just getting old?

This is on the button, these are the very reason why I liked the indie flick, "Thank You for Smoking" - absolutely brilliant when I read about this liberal anti-smoking movement in the United States of America. :banghead:

I think there exists a dividing point, just like the party system in our country, there will be those that will be at one end of the spectrum or the other and the middle will be running thinner as time goes by, similar with the class system of this country (are you blue or red?).

In Europe, it will always be cool because Europe plasters that huge warning label on the cigarette pack and no one seems to give a shit about smoking and its effects, just another way of life and a choice to do or do not.

[Krill]

Yes. Why rationally would you attempt to be cool ?


Claverhouse :ph34r:

As I stated before, the normative doesn't necessarily apply to the descriptive.

Just because there's no rational reason you would attempt to be cool doesn't mean people are going to follow your wonderful rational reasoning (I wish they did) and decide not to try to be cool.

[Stoic]

Yes. Why rationally would you attempt to be cool ?


Claverhouse :ph34r:

People do it all the time to try and gain acceptance from their peers.

[Conan]

This is on the button, these are the very reason why I liked the indie flick, "Thank You for Smoking" - absolutely brilliant when I read about this liberal anti-smoking movement in the United States of America. :banghead:

I think there exists a dividing point, just like the party system in our country, there will be those that will be at one end of the spectrum or the other and the middle will be running thinner as time goes by, similar with the class system of this country (are you blue or red?).

In Europe, it will always be cool because Europe plasters that huge warning label on the cigarette pack and no one seems to give a shit about smoking and its effects, just another way of life and a choice to do or do not.

Yeah I should have specified that I was referring to the United States. I imagine people start smoking for a variety of reasons and continue smoking because of the addictive properties of nicotine. My point is that, as of late, it seems as though the anti-smoking crusaders have been making tremendous strides in shifting the cultural attitudes towards smoking in this country. While there are other incentives in play, such as "just wanting to", as Claverhouse pointed out, the social incentive of "coolness" is no longer there. The image of the smoker has become an undesirable one and those who choose to smoke these days do so despite the social incentives rather than because of it. At least thats how things seem to me.

[Claverhouse]

As I stated before, the normative doesn't necessarily apply to the descriptive.

Just because there's no rational reason you would attempt to be cool doesn't mean people are going to follow your wonderful rational reasoning (I wish they did) and decide not to try to be cool.

That still doesn't give any importance to the motives of propagandists ( on either side ) nor the outcomes upon their dupes.

Besides which, and this applies to so much else, take it as a law: 'If you attempt to be something, then it means you aren't that already.'


Claverhouse :ph34r:


[ and just to stop any deliberate confusion: I've never once been cool. ]

[Krill]

That still doesn't give any importance to the motives of propagandists ( on either side ) nor the outcomes upon their dupes.

I'm understanding you more.


Besides which, and this applies to so much else, take it as a law: 'If you attempt to be something, then it means you aren't that already.'

I'm not sure if I can accept that claim.

Attempt does not imply failure. It implies a previous state of existence not in junction with what you are attempting to become.

[Claverhouse]

Yeah I should have specified that I was referring specifically to the United States. I imagine people start smoking for a variety of reasons and continue smoking because of the addictive properties of nicotine. My point is that, as of late, it seems as though the anti-smoking crusaders have been making tremenous strides in shifting the cultural attitudes towards smoking in this country. While there are other incentives in play, such as "just wanting to", as Claverhouse pointed out, the social incentive of "coolness" is no longer there. The image of the smoker has become an undesirable one and those who choose to smoke these days do so despite the social incentives rather than because of it. At least thats how things seem to me.

Over here, it's the nannies who now control the nanny-state who are forcing the pace in eradicating smoking.

ummm. right behind me on the bed is an old copy of The Field ( hunting magazine, Dec 2005 ) with the letters page open where I read it a few days back. From a Kit Fraser, Chairman of the Publican Party, Inverness.


With reference to Michael Wigan's Comment, I was given the opportunity to address Scotland's senior health and safety officials at the Scottish Executive's "smoke ban" conference in Glasgow last week.

One public health executive attacked publicans like myself for our opposition to the smoke ban as it betrayed a cavalier attitude to other people's lives. "One death through passive smoking is one death too many," she solemnly declared.

I replied by saying that if I took her argument to its logical conclusion, she must then be in favour of a nationwide 30mph speed limit because that would eliminate the possibility of fatality on the roads. She answered "Yes."


Really, quite seriously, these people won't be happy until no-one leaves the bed they are tied into night and day. All risk, and all life because any part of life contains risk, is bad; and death also is bad.

Total safety is as much a negation and rejecting of life as is suicide.


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Claverhouse]

Attempt does not imply failure. It implies a previous state of existence not in junction with what you are attempting to become.

I said nothing of failure. You may become --- transcend --- although this is unlikely. But in order to attempt you are first recognising, however unconsciously, that you are not that thing already. If you want to be urbane, say, by setting that goal you already realising that it is still something to attain.


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Krill]

I said nothing of failure. You may become --- transcend --- although this is unlikely. But in order to attempt you are first recognising, however unconsciously, that you are not that thing already. If you want to be urbane, say, by setting that goal you already realising that it is still something to attain.


Claverhouse :ph34r:

Agreed. Sorry, I misunderstood what you were saying/implying.

[fripping]

the recent popular movement against smoking makes it even cooler. in the face of so much "no no no" continuing to smoke amplifies the message of "i just don't give a damn" even louder. i only bum from friends when i'm drunk enough to want one, though, so maybe that lowers me in the hierarchy of smokers and therefore my opinion.

[Stoic]

I said nothing of failure. You may become --- transcend --- although this is unlikely. But in order to attempt you are first recognising, however unconsciously, that you are not that thing already. If you want to be urbane, say, by setting that goal you already realising that it is still something to attain.


Claverhouse :ph34r:

But the goal of someone trying to act cool isn't to actually be cool. It is to make others think you are cool so you can reap the social benefits of that.

Trying to act cool isn't cool, those who try and act cool know that.

[KuJo]

a bunch of kids down here smoke because they think its cool. they also dip, which is even more horrible.

[omnirook]

Total safety is as much a negation and rejecting of life as is suicide.

More so! Life is easier to escape than to control.

[Ghost-Girl]

True. Verrrrrrrry true. Smoking helps you think. People either do it because they don't know addiction, fit in, helps them think, or all three. For example, smoking relaxes soldiers so they can think in dangerous situation. Beer does this too.
Cigarettes are a stimulant, so the only way you're going to find them relaxing is if you're addicted to them, which a lot of people are.

I've been raised my whole life knowing smoking is bad for me, so i've never been too keen on it.

Ignore the smoking person in my avatar.

[Krill]

Ignore the smoking person in my avatar.

Well, she's not actually smoking it yet, so she could be like me.

I think it'd be awesome to have a pipe, but I'd never actually use it to smoke.
Sorta like I don't need a monocle but it'd be cool to have one of those too.

(Ok, so this was actually an excuse to talk about how neat it would be to have a pipe)

[Ghost-Girl]

Well, she's not actually smoking it yet, so she could be like me.

I think it'd be awesome to have a pipe, but I'd never actually use it to smoke.
Sorta like I don't need a monocle but it'd be cool to have one of those too.

(Ok, so this was actually an excuse to talk about how neat it would be to have a pipe)
Pipes are neat.

How 'bout a pipe, monacle, and top hat? Would that be over-kill?
I've got a top hat.

[Krill]

Pipes are neat.

How 'bout a pipe, monacle, and top hat? Would that be over-kill?
I've got a top hat.

Actually, that wouldn't be over-kill at all. That would be even better.

I am jealous of your top-hat.
I do have a cane though!

If I ever get them all together, my avatar is changing.

[Ghost-Girl]

If I ever get them all together, my avatar is changing.
I can't wait, it'd be like Disco Stu at the opera.

[EmmaPeel]

Who cares ? One doesn't smoke or do anything else to be cool. One does it because one wants to.


Claverhouse :ph34r:
Because it's not cool to get lung cancer.

[songbird36]

Because it's not cool to get lung cancer.

How does this relate to his point? His point seems to be that people don't smoke to have a cool image. I don't agree...some obviously do, but what does lung cancer have to do with it?

[distraction tactics]

Smoking is definitely uncool around these parts. This past winter when I smoked a few packs, I was amazed at all the dirty looks I got. It was an interesting expirement though, and just solidified what I knew all along - propaganda is effective, and doing what you want is bound to piss at least one person off.

On the other hand, smokers have become some of my favourite people because they are generally very laid back and unconcerned. I love hanging out with the smoking crowd at work for this reason.

[macr0]

Yes. Why rationally would you attempt to be cool ?


Claverhouse :ph34r:

Yeah, something like this is very hard for us folks in the ivory tower to understand, but I know tons of people who'se entire life is geared around "being cool". White collar types. Why is there any difference between people in high school trying to get into the "cool club" and people brown nosing their boss at the insurance company?

Smoking, reading the wall street journal, playing golf, bowling, having Fondue parties, blowing tub meth...all of these activites help your cool factor (positively or negatively) depending on your situation.

[sbw]

How 'bout a pipe, monacle, and top hat? Would that be over-kill?

over-krill, at the very least.

Scott

[cerene]

Who cares ? One doesn't smoke or do anything else to be cool. One does it because one wants to.


Claverhouse :ph34r:

I disagree, especially in times past. People who have are already addicted to it are probably not doing it to be cool, but I'll bet it's reason that a lot of, if not most, people start smoking. They start smoking to be cool; they keep smoking because they're addicted.

To answer the OP, here in california it's definitely been turned around and not cool as it used to be. Which I'm personally glad about.

[LongSilence]

The problem is that smoking is legal and therefore a condoned activity yet it used to be considered 'social' but now it is not. The sexual connatations have been diluted by intensive anti-smoking campaigns and its old connection with relaxed sophistication has been also diminished by the increasing "need" to highlight the negative consequences.

[Claverhouse]

I'll just repeat something I once posted from the divine Thorne Smith, which I plan to have as an epitaph.


"We do what amuses us at the moment," replied Marion, "and not what we think may amuse others."

Topper Takes a Trip


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[raincrow007]

I've always been cool. Even before I smoked.

[Stoic]

I'll just repeat something I once posted from the divine Thorne Smith, which I plan to have as an epitaph.


"We do what amuses us at the moment," replied Marion, "and not what we think may amuse others."

Topper Takes a Trip


Claverhouse :ph34r:

What if amusing others is what amuses us?