I don't think I have any feelings.

[Groty]

This is hard to explain. In fact, I don't know how to. Okay, I do have feelings. But, I have never, ever, in my life, ever ever ever, expressed them to anyone. I think it is a weakness to do so. I am shocked that there are so many married INTP's on this board. I always thought we were meant to be single. I have never met anyone that I thought deserved me expressing myself, nor have I ever thought that such a woman existed. I think it is a curse of being a thinker. The problem is that I occasionally find myself lonely, suffering all of the related effects.

[SheepDog]

Just curious, do you express anger openly? That's one that men are "allowed" to express.

[Groty]

NO!!!! I definitely don't. When angry, it comes across more as being frustrated or tired.

[purple13]

I hear ya man. What about family or close friends? Have you not laughed with them? This is expressing a feeling -- joy. What particular feelings do you find hard to express?

[CamINTPeron]

Well for me it came down to the fact that it is illogical to be alone and everyone no matter what they say has a desire to breed and copulate and I knew that the only way I would find an adequate partner in clubs and pubs was if I was lucky to find somebody doing the same thing that I was there to do. It never happened so I sat down and thought about it did some research on the net and discovered that ancient China had for thousands of years the right answer for me, a matchmaker.
To most westerners this idea is somewhat repugnant or embarrassing but when you think about it is the most logical course as you meet people with the same interests and desires.

I met my wife this way she was the second person that I met and we are very compatible.

Although as an INTP I know sometimes I do the wrong thing like one day she was upset because she made our eldest go to bed very early as he had done something bad, he was upset and crying which made my wife upset and made claims that she was a bad parent. I sat down and told her that she wasn’t and gave many examples that she wasn’t, she kept being upset so I explained again until I worked out that she just wanted a hug. We are unemotional people we just have to learn to “read” others and know what to do when the situation warrants it.

Also make sure that you find a good introduction agency some are sleazy and be open minded and honest.

I must say that when my first child was born my whole mental process changed everything then was for him not me.

[SheepDog]

This is a tough one, because in some ways I relate, and in others I don't. I do relate to the idea that I don't want to express myself to just anybody. I always knew that she'd have to be worthy of it. However, I always thought I'd find her, even thought it did take a long while.

Also related to something you said, I've told my wife that it's hard sometimes for me to express certain feelings, and mentioned something about feeling weak in doing so. She assured me that she thinks it's a sign of strength, not weakness. To face the fear, and express the feelings anyway.

I'm awfully glad that I met her. It's worth the effort in every way.

[synchronous]

This is hard to explain. In fact, I don't know how to. Okay, I do have feelings. But, I have never, ever, in my life, ever ever ever, expressed them to anyone. I think it is a weakness to do so. I am shocked that there are so many married INTP's on this board. I always thought we were meant to be single. I have never met anyone that I thought deserved me expressing myself, nor have I ever thought that such a woman existed. I think it is a curse of being a thinker. The problem is that I occasionally find myself lonely, suffering all of the related effects.

Well, I know when I was young, I was known for my poker face. I thought expressing feelings was low brow. In fact, my dad and brother once pinned me to the floor to kiss me just for fun because I never allowed anyone near me let alone to show physical affection. I never thought I would ever get married, or be physically intimate with anyone.

But more than just treating feelings as low brow, I have difficulty accessing them. Feelings most often go through the thinking chamber first. Only a few times have i felt pure emotion or expressed feelings coming immediately straight from the heart. That doesn't mean I'm not capable of feeling and loving, just that there is a natural delay. It affects how I interact on a feelings level, and how I interpret the feelings of others.

Back in my early 20s, I didn't have access to information about personality types. I just thought I was defective - imagine a female not interested in getting married, disliking mundane SJ activities, or being unemotional. Because there was a cultural expectation to get married, I went thru the motions the first time, and it was a bit of a disaster. The positive outcome was having children and that opened me up to my feelings - an attitude shift, but, also the development of the F function. There is a shift towards feelings later in life as you mature as well, i think around 30 or 35 years. In any case, I've remarried by choice and although I still struggle with independence, space and time alone, I still prefer meeting the challenge of companionship.

We may think we may not need feelings, however, disregarding our feelings is like knowing only part of reality objectively. Life is more than just theories, knowledge and thinking. When you decide to confront the F and S aspects of your personality type is an individual choice. You can let the personality type descriptions define your life (ie INTPs are meant to be single), or you can choose to learn and grow. I choose to confront the Feelings issue for the sake of balance.

[PsiKik]

This is hard to explain. In fact, I don't know how to. Okay, I do have feelings. But, I have never, ever, in my life, ever ever ever, expressed them to anyone.

I can relate 70%.
I am starting to form a theory about this. To develop and express feelings
requires having contact with enough people to do so. As INTP we have difficulty
finding large numbers of people to relate/share with, as opposed to more E types.
I believe we are capable of fulfulling emotional relationships as long as we have
suitable people to do so with. I believe emotional skills can atrophy if not excercised, so if you do find people you can relate to, concentrate on building the relationship instead of just trying to form contacts with just anyone.

[synchronous]

I'll add as well that Albert Einstein was married twice. If you accept that Einstein is representative of the typical INTP personality type, then it should not be so odd for INTPs to choose companionship.

[waxwing]

I can certainly relate to all of the comments. As a female, I've definitely been adrift because I did not want to sit around planning my wedding when I was ten and I don't think I've really ever desired to have "my one day to be beautiful." Ha. Feelings for me are hard to both identify and express. I had various counselors through the years. Each one of them gave me a list of alphabetical feelings. I can say that when I first saw that list, I was sure I didn't know how to read the words or something. It was like in this respect, I was a baby. Naturally, it was very difficult to complete my therapy "homework." "Uh, you want me to pick just one?" "Yes." So, I proceeded to peruse the list, literally afraid to pick one. I think what was hardest though was actually putting the feeeling into sentence form. It seemed like too much of a committment to me. (I feel ________.) Aren't feelings always mixed and ineffable?? I cannot say that this exercise seemed terribly helpful or even reasonable at the time, but I can say that it was a start. If nothing else, I began to learn that in the feelings realm, I struggle, and probably always will. I also realized that in order for me to begin to understand how I felt, it may be necessary for me to observe people expressing emotion, something I rarely saw as a child. Today, at 24, I consider myself still barely in progress. I still am not comfortable with most displays of emotion, and certainly not with the kind of melodrama that often rises out of what to me are emotionless circumstances.

But I have recognized one kind of emotion that I appreciate most of the time. Working in a group home for adults with developmental disabilities, I have witnessed a kind of raw, genuine emotion pouring out of the residents. At first, I definitely did not how to respond to "I love you, I miss you," spoken emphatically, like a child who hadn't seen his mommy for a long time. But a major victory for me happened just two weeks ago. One of the individuals in the home was especially affectionate as I was getting ready to go home one afternoon. For the first time, I was able to say, "I love you" back without second-guessing (i.e. But do I really know what love means?/ I'm afraid I cannot love her how she loves me, etc.) This is difficult. I also recently have begun a sort of, well, yeah, I guess a romantic relationship with a guy although we live 3000 miles apart. While this is extremely frightening to me in some ways, I also believe that for the first time I have somebody who understands the gist of who I am. He is also an INTP, which helps, no doubt. Whether we will get married or even last for more than a month, I cannot tell. But I do know that each relationship I find myself in contributes to my getting to know myself better, maybe even to my becoming a more integrated person. I'm hopeful that I may one day strike a balance. I genuinely do want to know how to love a person and accept love and I want to be able to express that, even if it comes out in broken phrases llike, "Uhm yeah" (one of my best) followed by what most people would call jibberish. Combined with my little girl voice, my attempts at expressing emotion make me sound like I am five years old. Even so, it's an area in which I want to develop.

I was trying to explain to a friend not too long ago how I often try to validate emotional experience by finding some interaction in the natural world that makes relating on an emotional level somehow ok, legitimate. However, I try to distill everything (including myself) so much that I begin to feel compartmentalized. I told him what I'll say again today: "If, given an experience that could possibly trigger an emotional response, I could just know what I think, express how I feel, and act accordingly, I'd be amazed."

[SheepDog]

Waxwing, you remind me of moment that I had almost forgotten. I ran across a book that had a list of feeling words in it. Actually, there were four lists and it categorized feeling words under four general terms. As I recall, they were anger, fear, happiness, and sadness.

It sounded kind of contrived at the time, to put all words under these few terms, but it made me think. The one I remember easiest was frustration, which was under anger. I realized not only that I was feeling anger which I was calling frustration, but that by using this word, I was trying to "soften" or perhaps distance myself from the feeling. Now when I feel frustrated, I kind of translate the thought to one that recognizes that this is, indeed, anger, and it's neither good nor bad, just there.

The reason I asked about anger originally in this thread is that it's an emotion that men often express and don't get called "emotional" over. But it's an emotion just like any, and it's also neither good nor bad, just like all other emotions. How you express it is important, of course. It can be the source of some very bad actions, but the feeling itself isn't bad. I've had people tell me that it's "bad to be angry". No, it's not. It's part of being human.

In any case, I think it's good exercise to acknowledge feelings using these simple words. Even if you say to yourself, "I feel frustrated right now," you're acknowledging your feelings. By doing so, I feel more in control of my emotions than a victim of them. I also feel more free to express them in (hopefully) increasingly appropriate ways.

[BHZA]

It human to experience and express emotions; I think it is a way of communication - a highly developed albeit subtle manner of indicating to other people what our reaction(s) is to a given situation, experience or "environment". I think the danger of showing the emotions we experience to people, who is highly sensitive to picking up this type of communication, is that we which have untrained or unde(rde)veloped emotional expression the other person misinterprets the data in the communication. In another post people discussed the fact that we often seem disinterested, snobbish or removed - this may just becuase of the miscommunication that is taking place.
On the other hand expressing emotions can give us away to the emotionally clever ones out there; I have many times been told that I am a bad liar or that I am lying when I am saying that I am not emotional and trying very hard to hide it.
It is interesting to delve into the core of emotions and try to find out where they come from, why we have (and need them) and how we apply them.
Just imagine two lovers who does not express emotion between each other... no wonder Vulcans do it only once every 8 years and then it is because they experience emotions...

[Clara]

Happy Birthday, Groty!

Keep this in mind: somewhere among the people around you, there's a girl (guessing, here) who's going to find you're one of the sweetest, kindest guys she's (/he's) met - and cute, too. So when you're around people (some of whom are glad they know you, as PsiKik said) keep your antennae tuned!

(I'm sure of this - Be brave - you'll see)

Oh, and be friendly toward ENFPs - they're good allies, and great hosts. Happy birthday to you, all week long. :cheers:

[SheepDog]

Oh, and be friendly toward ENFPs - they're good allies, and great hosts. Happy birthday to you, all week long. :cheers:
I agree. My wife's an ENFP, and we compliment each other well.

[Groty]

Happy Birthday, Groty!Thank you Clara! It's been a good day. Trinity surprised me, and surprised me, and embarassed me, and surprised me again... It's been fun!


Oh, and be friendly toward ENFPs - they're good allies, and great hosts. Happy birthday to you, all week long. :cheers:

They want to both help (at least, their own definition of "help") and be liked and admired by other people, on both an individual and a humanitarian level...

Less mature E NFPs may need to feel they are the center of attention all the time, to reassure them that everyone thinks they're a wonderful and fascinating person.
http://www.typelogic.com/enfp.html
I think I know one right now. Still trying to pin her down. Talking to her for 5 minutes makes me feel like I just ran 5 miles. She writes poetry. And gawd, the attention. Definitely needs to be the center of attention. I think the best part of her is the fact that she shows her big heart. Very huggable woman.

[mgb]

I agree. My wife's an ENFP, and we compliment each other well.

Weird, so is my girlfriend.

I find it nice to have someone that probably also had trouble relating to the masses through life (even though she is better at it) and whose mind tends to slip away into a dream world. It's easier to relate to her about stuff because she has been there (compared to some of the other girls I have dated).

[booyalab]

Yeah I have a guy friend who's an ENFP but we've never been single simultaneously. I disagree with him on alot but he's so funny and cool and interesting that if it were ever convenient for us to be in a romantic relationship I'd snatch him up right away. ENFPs are great for INTPs, I think.

[mgb]

Yeah I have a guy friend who's an ENFP but we've never been single simultaneously. I disagree with him on alot but he's so funny and cool and interesting that if it were ever convenient for us to be in a romantic relationship I'd snatch him up right away. ENFPs are great for INTPs, I think.

The only problem is that they are late for everything :)

[xavierd]

Whose late for everything INTPs or ENFPs?

[SheepDog]

My ENFP wife exerts more J tendencies when she's around me, including making sure we're on time to things.

[Boneca]

Wow, this thread is full of insight! Thank you synchronous and waxwing for your elaborations, your words have given me a lot to think about.

I consider myself to have at least reasonable social skills, but I realised a couple of years ago that I am just faking everything. I don't actually experience much emotions, I just look at how others react and "copy" their behaviour. It really made me wonder if there is some component missing in me.
Funny thing is that I can feel a lot, even cry, when reading a book or watching a film (keyword - alone!), but I never get the same kind of emotions about anything in my own life. And I would certainly never cry where anyone could see me.
After thinking a lot about this, I have come to the conclusion that I am simply so terrified of "getting lost" in my feelings that I ignore them. Kind of like, if I don't feel, I won't get hurt.
I guess step one was understanding that fear, and the next will be to let that scary Fe monster out (but I'll keep it on a leash at first).

And sometimes I wonder why I'm writing stuff on the internet that I wouldn't even tell my own mother. :huh:

[booyalab]

My ENFP wife exerts more J tendencies when she's around me, including making sure we're on time to things.

My mom who's an ESFJ is late for everything, but she's really impatient about other people making her wait....so I think maybe being on time is learned behavior.

[jimkopelli]

I get emotions... but they're almost never very extreme.

[booyalab]

As for my emotions, I really fit the INTP description of being all or nothing emotionally. (usually nothing) My feelings almost exclusively manifest themselves on a superficial level. Introverted feeling is romance, and I really can't stand or see the point in reflecting on feelings...I hate chick flicks. I often don't know I'm sad until I start crying. I often don't know I'm angry until someone tells me I'm yelling. I always laugh at something I find funny, even if it's in my head. So I deal with my emotions by limiting or increasing my exposure to the things that have made me feel in the past. My ability to detach is directly related to how impersonal my relationship with the other person is. For instance, when I'm just friends or acquainted with someone but no more, they can't generally say anything to offend me. When I'm in love with someone it's hard in the first stages of being in love for me to detach myself enough to not be offended by little things they do, but I'll be ashamed of the fact that I'm offended and will beat myself up over it and let it fester. I have a lot of growing to do! (this is really long)

Also, I've found that writing poetry helps me when something extraordinarily sad has happened and I'm very good at writing it. Except when I'm back to being detached I hate poetry and hide it all in a little box.

[mgb]

Wow, this thread is full of insight! Thank you synchronous and waxwing for your elaborations, your words have given me a lot to think about.

I consider myself to have at least reasonable social skills, but I realised a couple of years ago that I am just faking everything. I don't actually experience much emotions, I just look at how others react and "copy" their behaviour. It really made me wonder if there is some component missing in me.
Funny thing is that I can feel a lot, even cry, when reading a book or watching a film (keyword - alone!), but I never get the same kind of emotions about anything in my own life. And I would certainly never cry where anyone could see me.
After thinking a lot about this, I have come to the conclusion that I am simply so terrified of "getting lost" in my feelings that I ignore them. Kind of like, if I don't feel, I won't get hurt.
I guess step one was understanding that fear, and the next will be to let that scary Fe monster out (but I'll keep it on a leash at first).

And sometimes I wonder why I'm writing stuff on the internet that I wouldn't even tell my own mother. :huh:

I find that in "real life" I tend to be quite logical about things and find little place for emotion.

Its funny lately because I have noticed that my girlfriend and NF friends are super concerned about how something made me feel when I am spending my time thinking about how I should deal with the consequences of the actions and not so much how they made me feel.

[CamINTPeron]

My ENFP wife exerts more J tendencies when she's around me, including making sure we're on time to things.

Yeah that sounds like my wife, she hasn't done the test but she strikes me as an ENFP/J

[Groty]

I've been reading over these posts a lot. Lots of soul searching here. Haven't posted since the original. Thanks everyone for the advice, it's gonna take a little while for it to sink in.

[Danyal]

I always thought my lack of feeling was due to my mother constantly telling me I was wrong and then telling me how I really felt. Not sure how to deal with all your confessions but I'm gonna go with Groty and let it sick in for a while.

Oh and thanks Groty, I would never have thought of asking on here :)

[ohnoaninfp]

This is hard to explain. In fact, I don't know how to. Okay, I do have feelings. But, I have never, ever, in my life, ever ever ever, expressed them to anyone. I think it is a weakness to do so. I am shocked that there are so many married INTP's on this board. I always thought we were meant to be single. I have never met anyone that I thought deserved me expressing myself, nor have I ever thought that such a woman existed. I think it is a curse of being a thinker. The problem is that I occasionally find myself lonely, suffering all of the related effects.
Why do you consider showing emmotions a weakness? If you keep things bottled up you will explode. Maybe you haven't found that one person who brings your emmotions out. I don't believe that intps are destined to be lonely. Maybe you need to loosen up and give people a chance. For once think with your heart instead of you head. You guys always have this vision of an ideal woman, and you can not find her. Maybe she really isn't what you want. Love works in mysterious ways. It is not supposed to be logical. Just give people a chance and use your heart along with your head. Even though I love you guys, you can be so frustrating sometimes exspecially my friend. You know who you are.:smooch:

[Zero Angel]

I agree, not ever situation can be approached rationally and logically all the time. MBTI is useful, but sometimes you just have to let things flow.


As for my emotions, I really fit the INTP description of being all or nothing emotionally. (usually nothing) My feelings almost exclusively manifest themselves on a superficial level. Introverted feeling is romance, and I really can't stand or see the point in reflecting on feelings...I hate chick flicks. I often don't know I'm sad until I start crying. I often don't know I'm angry until someone tells me I'm yelling. I always laugh at something I find funny, even if it's in my head. So I deal with my emotions by limiting or increasing my exposure to the things that have made me feel in the past. My ability to detach is directly related to how impersonal my relationship with the other person is. For instance, when I'm just friends or acquainted with someone but no more, they can't generally say anything to offend me. When I'm in love with someone it's hard in the first stages of being in love for me to detach myself enough to not be offended by little things they do, but I'll be ashamed of the fact that I'm offended and will beat myself up over it and let it fester. I have a lot of growing to do! (this is really long)

Also, I've found that writing poetry helps me when something extraordinarily sad has happened and I'm very good at writing it. Except when I'm back to being detached I hate poetry and hide it all in a little box.
I also hate chick flicks because many of them are totally superficial. I think the only chick flick that I ever really liked was "A Walk to Remember" starring Mandy Moore. That one was deep.

[hemanthraz]

I dont feel emotional during all the usual "emotional moments" like graduation day, first date and stuff. Its really small things that do it and even then its not that extreme.
Ive never really felt completely sad or happy.

Movies especially fail to influence me, i usually make it into a critique of the directing and acting on screen.The few movies that did make me feel something strong were, good will hunting, american beauty, city of angels..
Of course none of my friends really got what the movies were about, and were looking at me as if i were a freak.The stuff they enjoyed was something like alien vs predator and stuff.

[PsiKik]

Im feeling excited because I decided to buy a camera and am getting it on Monday. I am posting this because I have not felt this way since I was a kid, the expectation is great. In the recent past I felt nothing about inanimate objects, maybe because Im less depressed lately.

[Werdna]

I dont feel emotional during all the usual "emotional moments" like graduation day, first date and stuff. Its really small things that do it and even then its not that extreme.
Ive never really felt completely sad or happy.
Same thing here with "emotional moments". When everyone asked me how I felt the day I graduated I didn't know what to answer. I didn't really feel anything special, so usually I just answered with something neutral that would avoid follow-up questions.
I can remember moments as a child when I have been very happy or sad. But my emotions always seemed to cause a lot of trouble, so I learned to suppress them. I do show emotions sometimes, it's not too healthy to suppress them completely either, but I always have to feel that I am in control.

[lauriep]

Same thing here with "emotional moments". When everyone asked me how I felt the day I graduated I didn't know what to answer. I didn't really feel anything special, so usually I just answered with something neutral that would avoid follow-up questions.
I can remember moments as a child when I have been very happy or sad. But my emotions always seemed to cause a lot of trouble, so I learned to suppress them. I do show emotions sometimes, it's not too healthy to suppress them completely either, but I always have to feel that I am in control.
I always thought I was some unemotional heartless bitch because of this. Even on my wedding day, it was nice and all but I remember being at the reception thinking that I should feel happier. I completely blew off my college graduation because I just didn't feel like going. Also I find that it makes me very uncomfortable when people around me get emotional. There is a woman at work who cries on a regular basis, and I always just take a walk whenever she starts because I can't stand to be in the same room with her while she's doing it. At the same time, I have felt extreme emotions on occasion but I get angry with myself later on for expressing them.

[Birdsnest]

In order to have feelings, I first have to respect & believe someone elses opinions/feelings. There is the problem. I don't trust other peoples feelings, or my own to be the better judge normally. My feelings have led me down the wrong path too many times. I fall in love easily, I like everything. My feelings are SURE to trip me up, and I dislike that. They are unpredictable, wrong when I'm angry, wrong when I'm in love, wrong when I get thrilled about something, wrong when I want to express my needs, underdeveloped, raw, immature, exposed, jealous, possessive, materialistic, childish. They can also be bold, free, loving, caring, confident and non-chalant. Now how couldn't feelings like those they get me into trouble? I must hide those feelings particularly at work.

I am a poker face at work, I don't express myself at all there. I have no problem expressing myself at home, in my own private world, but I am definitely a very private person and hardly open my tender side up, but there really is a huge dichotomy between the outer and inner me. My personal remedies that bring my feelings out are jazz, dylan, art, poetry, crushes, travel (because nobody knows you and you don't have to be accountable to anyone, & can be who you like when you travel).

Yes, I have feelings, overpowering ones at times. I have to repress them and "let them simmer" or be sure I know what I'm feeling for a while, and that isn't always obvious. Even knowing my feelings for myself takes time.

[Boneca]

Also, I've found that writing poetry helps me when something extraordinarily sad has happened and I'm very good at writing it. Except when I'm back to being detached I hate poetry and hide it all in a little box.Haha, I just saw this when re-reading the thread. I also have a folder with poems in a drawer somewhere. I don't write or read poetry, so I don't know why someone has written sappy poems with my handwriting and put it in my drawer. It must be a setup! ;)

[indie]

Funny thing is that I can feel a lot, even cry, when reading a book or watching a film (keyword - alone!), but I never get the same kind of emotions about anything in my own life.

The strangest thing happened the other day. I was driving on the freeway (alone, of course) and a live version of U2's "Pride, in the Name of Love" came on the radio, and for no reason at all, I felt an emotion so strong, I was like--holy sh*t. I cannot remember the last time I felt so stung thinking about something, let alone something in my own life. For those five minutes, or whatever, I empathized so strongly with MLK Jr's story and ideals that it actually brought tears to my eyes.

Even now, trying to explain, it's hard. That's our problem, I think. We want to be able to "explain" feelings sometimes, rather than just feeling them, like the rest of the normal world does. Whenever a feeling happens, the first thought that pops into my head is "why am I feeling like this?"

Sometimes, however, I'll think "I should be feeling ______" And I try to feel that, and it just doesn't work. Damn, this is very off-topic now.

[last_caress]

Consider yourself lucky if you don't have strong emotions. It's just too much.

[Durroch]

I feel so heartless at times. I don't cry at weddings or funerals, my boyfriend thinks I am completly made of ice when we go out, and have been so tactless at times I simply do not speak, which is almost worse.

And yet, get me alone, or comfortable with friends and I am positivly warm, caring almost. I speak volumes, and get kinda kooky.

Your feelings are probably just covered over with our most prized posessions: Logic and idifference. Two very useful things I might add, but not always.

[hemanthraz]

yup durrroch, our attitude is not good always. All my female friends think im some sort of monster. They have never seen me all mushy and stuff. though i could be if i tried.

The most romantic thing i ever did was draw my girlfriends portrait and she had the nerve to say it made her look too pretty. Whaddya say to that!Then i learnt its better to give her chocolates . And then i learnt i was better off alone, living up to my "monstor man" reputation.

[Dman]

[QUOTE=booyalab]As for my emotions, I really fit the INTP description of being all or nothing emotionally. (usually nothing) I often don't know I'm sad until I start crying. I often don't know I'm angry until someone tells me I'm yelling. I always laugh at something I find funny, even if it's in my head. /QUOTE]


I'm with ya, Booyalab. It wasn't until I had been married a couple of years before I could open myself up to another person (my wife), and even now (8 years later) it can be difficult. I am usually the last person to know how I feel, emotionally, about something. It's kind of a twofold problem; I don't want to expose myself to others, and I generally don't know how I'm feeling anyways. Emotions get in the way. But I will admit that there are times when it sure feels good to let 'em out & get them out of the way.

Music is an awesome outlet for this... very, very few people have ever seen me cry, yet I've come to tears before just listening to even something like Metallica (alone of course). Writing works really well for discovering your emotions too.

[SheepDog]

I've written about myself in the third person to help get to things. It was easier to say, "he was sad..." than to say "I am sad". It might sound like this is distancing myself from the feelings, but I think it was really helpful in overcoming self-imposed boundaries.

[xavierd]

My opinion on emotion has pretty much been voice by everyone on this tread. Emotions are more of a private thing for me. I don't ever express my feelings in a public fashion.

I have found that writing poems does help a little, I get to be creative and let out some feelings at the same time. Also I think when writing a poem it allows me to explore that feeling much more deeply and in this form an emotion is much more, I don't know, solid... meaningful.

[Almaviva]

There's a perspective on this that I learned from reading the book "Body Language" by Julius Fast. Basically, in primates, the one in the dominant position is the one who displays the emotions. The rest respond by "masking", and not showing emotions as much. You can see this all over the place in the real world, like with a boss talking to employees, or even in social situations where one person is telling or story.

If you're a man, without exception the guys who are most popular with women are the ones who are free showing emotions. Learning to become more "animated" is actually a good way to help your chances with women, since it can make you appear less submissive to other people.

What's interesting is that this "masking" is below the conscious level. And also that it doesn't just affect emotions people display, but what they actually feel. One interesting side of this is "road rage", where people are able to display (and even feel) anger much more freely since they are in their own space away from people. When people are forced in to smaller spaces, say a crowded elevator, most people subconsciously become withdrawn and keep to themselves.

I repress emotions a lot too, but not as badly as I used to, not nearly so. I was someone who was bullied as a kid, and had a very domineering father, so I'm quite sure this was learned behaviour, and related to submission. I think everyone expresses and feels strong emotions as a child. I notice when I supress emotions, sometimes they come out in dreams too. This is kind of a Jungian thing.

So in my opinion, it's ironic when people view expressing emotions as a sign of weakness, becuase the exact opposite is true. I don't think it's so much a sign of personality at all, just a reservation about showing your personality. (Taking the example of, say, Einstein or Richard Feynman, they were extremely animated.)

[Jezebel]

There's a perspective on this that I learned from reading the book "Body Language" by Julius Fast. Basically, in primates, the one in the dominant position is the one who displays the emotions. The rest respond by "masking", and not showing emotions as much. You can see this all over the place in the real world, like with a boss talking to employees, or even in social situations where one person is telling or story.

If you're a man, without exception the guys who are most popular with women are the ones who are free showing emotions. Learning to become more "animated" is actually a good way to help your chances with women, since it can make you appear less submissive to other people.

What's interesting is that this "masking" is below the conscious level. And also that it doesn't just affect emotions people display, but what they actually feel. One interesting side of this is "road rage", where people are able to display (and even feel) anger much more freely since they are in their own space away from people. When people are forced in to smaller spaces, say a crowded elevator, most people subconsciously become withdrawn and keep to themselves.

I repress emotions a lot too, but not as badly as I used to, not nearly so. I was someone who was bullied as a kid, and had a very domineering father, so I'm quite sure this was learned behaviour, and related to submission. I think everyone expresses and feels strong emotions as a child. I notice when I supress emotions, sometimes they come out in dreams too. This is kind of a Jungian thing.

I think this theory is dependent on what emotions are being expressed and the way they are expressed. In my experience, the emotionally expressive sensitive guy usually doesn't have the best luck with the ladies.

I think what you describe mostly relates to confidence. Sure, if your emotional reaction to your boss is anger and your way of expressing it is to tell him he can't push you around it could be seen as attractive. But what if your emotional reaction is to start crying and telling him how much it hurts your feelings at all the meetings everytime he criticizes you? Do you really think this wins the ladies over?


So in my opinion, it's ironic when people view expressing emotions as a sign of weakness, becuase the exact opposite is true. I don't think it's so much a sign of personality at all, just a reservation about showing your personality.

I don't think it's ironic at all. They are most often referring to the emotions that are perceived as vulnerable (sadness, hurt, affection, etc), and not "strong" nonsubmissive emotions (anger, frustration, happiness - depending on context). When the "strong" emtions are withheld, it could be sign of being submissive but the same is not true of vulnerable emotions. I think someone who mostly expresses vulnerable emotions will be seen as more submissive, even if it is their own confidence that makes them comfortable expressing those emotions.

[Almaviva]

I think this theory is dependent on what emotions are being expressed and the way they are expressed. In my experience, the emotionally expressive sensitive guy usually doesn't have the best luck with the ladies.


I don't know. There's a class of "sensitive" guys who don't do well with the ladies (and I've been in that class), the "nice guys". But guys like this seem to me to be more defensive and scared than anything, very averse to confrontation, and above all else they have a lot of attachment with being seen as "nice". They seem tentative about expressing strong opinions on things. There's real niceness, and then there's wearing it like a chip on the shoulder.

Don't you know some guys who are either gay, or just act in a stereotypically efeminate way, that women like? I've met quite a few guys like this, who are totally open and friendly around women without expressing the so-called "male" emotions much, and these guys never seem to have much trouble finding women to sleep with if they want to "try girls" or something.

Also, don't a few women have a definite attraction towards passionate musicians or authors, or other creative and openly expressive types of men?



I think what you describe mostly relates to confidence. Sure, if your emotional reaction to your boss is anger and your way of expressing it is to tell him he can't push you around it could be seen as attractive. But what if your emotional reaction is to start crying and telling him how much it hurts your feelings at all the meetings everytime he criticizes you? Do you really think this wins the ladies over?


I agree with that one. If what you're expressing is pleaing for pity and the verbal equivalent of a dog rolling over then this isn't going to win anyone over. Expressing pain or grief or even sensitivity doesn't have to be submissive though.



I don't think it's ironic at all. They are most often referring to the emotions that are perceived as vulnerable (sadness, hurt, affection, etc), and not "strong" nonsubmissive emotions (anger, frustration, happiness - depending on context). When the "strong" emtions are withheld, it could be sign of being submissive but the same is not true of vulnerable emotions. I think someone who mostly expresses vulnerable emotions will be seen as more submissive, even if it is their own confidence that makes them comfortable expressing those emotions.


I don't disagree. But basically, I think a submissive frame of mind leads repression of emotions, as a general pattern. And people pick up on this at some kind of subconscious wired-in level as a way to recognize who has the power in a given situation.

Of course, any comment you can make in general about human behaviour is never true all the time.

[Groty]

yup durrroch, our attitude is not good always. All my female friends think im some sort of monster. They have never seen me all mushy and stuff. though i could be if i tried.
I with you there...

I've had several women get very angry, to the point of raising their voice..."WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU!".

[Clara]

People who also appreciate your finer qualities?

And, either way, did you (in a moment of awareness of who you are/ what you hope for in your life) agree with any part of what was meant?

[Jezebel]

Almaviva, I don't think showing emotions is either good or bad, but I do think it needs to be balanced. It isn't as easy as saying those who express their emotions more are more attractive than those who do it less. Anyone who is to the extreme in EITHER showing emotions or not showing them is going to be seen as less attractive or having poorer social skills. There are times to express emotions and times to hold back, and I believe what is really important is being intelligent enough to know what is appropriate for a given situation.

[Almaviva]

Nothing in human behaviour is ever as simple as saying "x is good, y is bad" of course. And yes, of course too much emotional display is going to cause problems with anyone.

I'll contend though, that showing almost no emotions whatsoever is subconsiciously considered submissive behaviour. And that, as a rule, becoming a little more emotionally animated is going to make a man more attactive to some women. I base this on observation, and on using myself as a test subject!

This was useful and interesting information to me when I learned about it. It may not be so for everyone.

[Jezebel]

I'll contend though, that showing almost no emotions whatsoever is subconsiciously considered submissive behaviour. And that, as a rule, becoming a little more emotionally animated is going to make a man more attactive to some women.

I do agree with this much.

[SheepDog]

A relationship phrase I like to use is "be careful how you bait your hook." How you present yourself will affect who is attracted to you.

Maybe it's just me, but I've noticed that the women that seem attracted to particularly emotional men are usually more "dramatic" (think Artisan) than suits my tastes.

It took a while, but I did finally find my wife, who isn't that way. Luckily, she knew a good man when she saw one (me!). ;)

[Helios]

Wow, what a great thread!



I consider myself to have at least reasonable social skills, but I realised a couple of years ago that I am just faking everything. I don't actually experience much emotions, I just look at how others react and "copy" their behaviour. It really made me wonder if there is some component missing in me.



I totally understand where you are coming from! But for me the discovery was in reverse! I knowingly as a child started to "copy" or "mirror" the actions of those around me. While manufactured and not natural, it was much less bothersome than the burden of being openly non-emtional. Growing up in a family as the ONLY "T" the groundwork was well laid by the time I was older project just about any image I needed. But deep inside the only thing I often really "felt" was the desire to avoid the "punishment" of failure to produce the correct reaction. "Punishment" meaning people's annoying "concern" or follow up question and related crap.




After thinking a lot about this, I have come to the conclusion that I am simply so terrified of "getting lost" in my feelings that I ignore them. Kind of like, if I don't feel, I won't get hurt.



This is exactly where I am now. It started late last yearwhen my emotions starting to get really negetive. My "normal" up and down cycle got much more up and down. So I started to reject and swished the downs. Which seemed like a lovely idea. I basked in the glow of my manic phases, and like giant steam hammer repressed the depressed phases into oblivion. Steadfastly refusing to feel anything, till I'd get that warm glow back, at which point I gladly hop on the ride up. This worked fine 'till the manic portions got to be violently unstable themselves. So I banned all sad music,movies, and circumstance in general. But still, I could be bounceing along just fine high as a kite, and a mellow tune could come on the radio in the store and I'd feel myself coming apart. It was like the when you crest the highest part on a roller coaster , and you know that the drop is a moment away. From here I just unleashed mind and soul wide anti-emotion edit, banning any and all feeling, good,bad, or ugly. None of those bastards are to be trusted! This unhealthy arangement has worked suprisingly well (so far). It is true I still dodge most circumstance that would provoke anything inside me, so my music,reading, and most entertainment is censored, but it really isn't that limiting, most ofthat crap I didn't like anyway!

This is really really fucked up, but sometimes, when I am extra sick-in-the-head, I go find the most gut wrenching song or whatever, and force myself to listen to, to think about it , to be awash in it ,and to remain as stoic and unmoved as possible. Typically I'll start to feel this deep primal ball of emotional magma building inside me, to which I get the most perverse pleasure outta ramming back down into whatever depths it come out of! (yes one day I realize I will explode, but oh well)






And sometimes I wonder why I'm writing stuff on the internet that I wouldn't even tell my own mother.


Oh! My poor ISFJ mom would just die if she knew 10% of this thread alone!




The strangest thing happened the other day. I was driving on the freeway (alone, of course) and a live version of U2's "Pride, in the Name of Love" came on the radio, and for no reason at all, I felt an emotion so strong, I was like--holy sh*t. I cannot remember the last time I felt so stung thinking about something, let alone something in my own life. For those five minutes, or whatever, I empathized so strongly with MLK Jr's story and ideals that it actually brought tears to my eyes.





I love U2 in general, I think you are talking about the live version were at the end Bono sings "..for the rev martin luthur king.....sing." That is just an awesome tune the ....emotional..(ack)... weight in amazing. But sadly most of their music would be on the list noted above, it has too much of what I am not dealing well with right now. But for better or worse I still got tkt for this tour.......:P




If you're a man, without exception the guys who are most popular with women are the ones who are free showing emotions. Learning to become more "animated" is actually a good way to help your chances with women, since it can make you appear less submissive to other people.




Yes, I am such 'tard I only just discovered this!! Being "animated" it a HUGE deal! My experiments with this was born out of the VI thread (or one of it spawn). Where we hit upon the idea that "F" eye and faces were more attractive. So in the resulting process and conversations, CC assured me I could "fake" the "F" look, so curious as always; I field tested to concept, to my amazement it is totally true, people in general and for sure most woman, respond to the animated/emotional glow that those people give of. In a rudimentary way I have started to incorparate this into my persona projection machine, but it is such an alien concept, it is a slow process, with all the data having to be imported from real time trials. But it is interesting anyway.


I am ashamed to admit this, but now that I am "aware" of it, I catch myself being attracted to this moronic look myself, hopefully this can be "fixed". I will say now that I am conscience of it, it is all the sudden obvious that there are "T" girls all around I was just too damn stupid to see them before! I am learning that that cold dull icey look is what you really want!! ;)



It is funny as I was re-read this for errors, I notice my sig, also from U2, but a song the very much captures my current state and need, "numb", for good or bad I need endless stimulation to keep away from all that I don't wanna deal with right now.



I feel numb

I feel numb

Too much is not enough


Gimme some more

Gimme some more

Of that stuff love

Too much is not enough









Too much is not enough

I feel numb

I feel numb

Gimme what you got

Gimme what I don't get

Gimme what you got

Too much is not enough

I feel numb


Funny thing is after all this, I think if I didn't know I was an INTP and 7 sx/sp I'd be more inclined to resist all this, but it almost seems as if I am hopelessly enstranged from it all. I'm forever chaseing a void that can't be filled, since it is inside, but I by nature look outward to fill it. You'd think knowing the answer would make it easy, not worse! But alas, I am an introvert that has no Fe by process, and 7 with no connection to the emotional triad, but looks outward for the solution, by motive. So my motives and my process both compound the problem and negate each others strengths! How fucked up is that!

[SwirlingSugarSparkles]

This is an interesting thread. I really enjoyed Waxwing's post and can relate to a lot of it. And what booyalab said about doing something like poetry (or something related to deep emotions) and then being embarrassed about it later. I have a tendency to do that once in a while. About a year and a half ago, I was just so out of touch with my feelings. I got some of the saddest, sappiest, romantic CDs out and just lied in my room by candlelight and listened to the most soul-probing songs. I was trying to induce my feelings to the forefront so I would know what I truly felt. I even tried to cry but it just didn't work. The next day I really felt stupid about it and thought "what in the crap was I thinking". I will say though, that when I dream at night my full and deepest emotions really come to the forefront whether it's extreme sadness, extreme love, fear or whatever. It's just weird and amazing. Do anyone else's emotions really come through in dreams?

[kwis]

Typically I'll start to feel this deep primal ball of emotional magma building inside me, to which I get the most perverse pleasure outta ramming back down into whatever depths it come out of! (yes one day I realize I will explode, but oh well)

I know exactly what you are saying and great metaphor. It used to be kind of a personal goal to shove every feeling I had about anything. I only watch movies and tv when I am alone so I can let my emotions come out without "fear". For some reason if someone else saw me crying I dont even think anything would happen but it is just so scary for some reason.

Eventually I reasoned that it's the fact that I trust pretty much no one. The INTP tendency to never show their true face except to very few is what I think is so frightening. The fact that there is some visible aspect of our persona that cannot be controlled by thought and will is a intp's greatest fear. I often dream that I am being hugged by someone and I can hug them back and not be afraid and its a awesome feeling. Anyways like other people have said, the way to "get" feelings is to not think about if they are appropriate, not to think about your persona and just to show them to other people(just typing this sentence was difficult to me). I think having emotions when you are by yourself is the first step then you have to be able to express them to someone else.

[antireconciler]

This is an interesting thread. I really enjoyed Waxwing's post and can relate to a lot of it. And what booyalab said about doing something like poetry (or something related to deep emotions) and then being embarrassed about it later. I have a tendency to do that once in a while. About a year and a half ago, I was just so out of touch with my feelings. I got some of the saddest, sappiest, romantic CDs out and just lied in my room by candlelight and listened to the most soul-probing songs. I was trying to induce my feelings to the forefront so I would know what I truly felt. I even tried to cry but it just didn't work. The next day I really felt stupid about it and thought "what in the crap was I thinking". I will say though, that when I dream at night my full and deepest emotions really come to the forefront whether it's extreme sadness, extreme love, fear or whatever. It's just weird and amazing. Do anyone else's emotions really come through in dreams?
Wow, I totally know the feeling. Occasionally I'll delete stuff I've posted on this site because I'll be so embarrassed about it afterward.

I usually ignore my dreams because I overanalyze insanity way too much as it is, but occasionally I'll wake up and be surprized over a particularly dramatic one that broke from the usual scripted event sequences.

[Zero Angel]

I know what you mean about deleting stuff. I've deleted some things that I probably shouldnt've said right out in the open. And some weird stuff that I didn't think anyone would get or they would just think i'm some floaty type of person, personal philosophy stuff. Some of my most inner thoughts are sacred territory, and I don't think I would admit them all here, even though a lot of people here are pretty accepting.

I also don't like the moderators ability to read deleted stuff. It is kinda violating.

[niezabijaj]

i just want to chuck in that i very very rarely express feelings.. most of the time it never occurrs to me to do so.. i mean, i feel like i carry out the expression so badly that it turns it into a farce. that it makes it seem fake. ..often i don't notice what other people are feeling/expressiong ... like i'll be logically explaining something for the 100th time in a disagreement, and my friend will tap me on the shoulder and say "hey, don't you think you should stop now? he's rolling up his sleeves.."

[Ka.avik]

Do anyone else's emotions really come through in dreams? No. What the crap were you thinking?



http://forums.intpcentral.com/images/smilies/blink.gif http://forums.intpcentral.com/images/smilies/holy.gif http://forums.intpcentral.com/images/smilies/smooch.gif http://forums.intpcentral.com/images/smilies/whistling.gif

Well, they don't. Have never played sappy music, either. For me it's depressing music. Usually to ease me out of one of Fe outrages. Pearl Jam's indifference, Failure by the Swans, that kind of thing.

And, how have I completely overlooked this thread? Yes Groty if you're still here, I'm suprised too at the number of married INTPs. I figure there is a girl out there suitable for me, but out of 6bil? probably only one or two women. Who probably don't speak english. Let it slide, I usually figure.

Have to read the rest of the thread, now...animated faces? Can't stand deceit, would rather lose out. But, maybe there's a nugget of truth in there somewhere....

Appearently I'm feeling 6w5 tonight, rather then =5= http://forums.intpcentral.com/images/smilies/ng_shock.gif

[headfonez]

This is hard to explain. In fact, I don't know how to. Okay, I do have feelings. But, I have never, ever, in my life, ever ever ever, expressed them to anyone. I think it is a weakness to do so. I am shocked that there are so many married INTP's on this board. I always thought we were meant to be single. I have never met anyone that I thought deserved me expressing myself, nor have I ever thought that such a woman existed. I think it is a curse of being a thinker. The problem is that I occasionally find myself lonely, suffering all of the related effects.

well, you're expressing yourself here, arent you?

[antireconciler]

well, you're expressing yourself here, arent you?Are you asking Groty? Keep in mind that Helios resurrected this thread after it died 7 months ago.