Remembering September 12 2001

[Ferrus]

It had to be done... as I remember I went into school, and on the way there I saw an singularly fat man.

[int]

Finished a demo album and got drunk.

[Meliora]

I remember marching band practice being canceled. Otherwise, just another day.

[Dom]

Went to work where I was informed that I wouldn't be working there within two weeks and the saga of arguing about my unfair dismissal began...

[Arioch]

Oh for the love of God, can't you people just make another thread where you discuss whats wrong about christianity again? Do we REALLY need more 9-11?

*sigh* I remember thinking "People are going to kill a lot more people in a fit of collective madness" sometimes I hate being right.

[Carebear]

September 12. 2001 I went to my international politics class at uni as usual. I came in a bit late (as usual), got some angry looks as I made my way down the rows of the auditorium, looking for empty seats. The topic was ofc the events of 9/11. When the new lecturer started asking us how the attacks could be interpreted, why someone had done them etc, I got so pissed with the brainless answers people around me were offering that I put up my hand, told the class why those answers didn't answer anything, then laid out a couple of far more plausible interpretations. While the lecturer applauded my answers, people in the benches looked at me like if I was the village idiot.

Which made more sense to me when they dropped the discussion of the events of 9/11 and went back to the topic they'd started the lecture with: Piaget's approach to pedagogics. At which point I realized I didn't see one familiar face around me, but a lot of questioning ones. Blushing, I semi-paniced, I stood up, stumbled my way back up the rows of the auditorium, got some angry and inquiring looks, and got out.

Next time I'm stealing the show, I'll try to find out what kind of show I'm stealing first.

[sbw]

I remember--probably on the 12th, maybe the 13th--my younger brother saying 'nobody gave a shit about america 2 days ago, now everyone is a patriot...wtf' and my parents being horrified and me agreeing with him.

Scott

[demagogic_schizoid]

I remember Sept 14th or 15th I believe, getting the bus to school with this kid who was saying to me "I don't get it, why do we have to have a minutes silence just because a fucking plane crashed. It happens all the time". I said to him that it's a bit different because lots of planes crashed, two of them into skyscrapers, and he laughed and said "cool, what are the chances of that". I told him someone did it on purpose. He laughed again, he couldn't believe it. "Oh well, I would just push the other passengers out of the way, grab a prachute and say fuck all of you I'm going home". :)

He wasn't really in keeping with the mood of the time, I guess he didn't watch the news. It still makes me laugh to this day.

[Carebear]

I remember Sept 14th or 15th I believe, getting the bus to school with this kid who was saying to me "I don't get it, why do we have to have a minutes silence just because a fucking plane crashed. It happens all the time". I said to him that it's a bit different because lots of planes crashed, two of them into skyscrapers, and he laughed and said "cool, what are the chances of that". I told him someone did it on purpose. He laughed again, he couldn't believe it. "Oh well, I would just push the other passengers out of the way, grab a prachute and say fuck all of you I'm going home". :)

He wasn't really in keeping with the mood of the time, I guess he didn't watch the news. It still makes me laugh to this day.

I just realized how old I am. I think of 9/11 as only last month or something, but you were only 14 when it happened, and other members were even younger. I think of movies made after 1990 as new ones, you were only 3 in 1990. A few years ago, they tore down the Berlin wall, you were probably still in diapers. I'm getting old. :(

[Dom]

I just realized how old I am. I think of 9/11 as only last month or something, but you were only 14 when it happened, and other members were even younger. I think of movies made after 1990 as new ones, you were only 3 in 1990. A few years ago, they tore down the Berlin wall, you were probably still in diapers. I'm getting old. :(

Berlin wall?

I'm about to start at uni with people who were 1 when the wall came down... I remember watching it on telly..................

GULP!

[Carebear]

Berlin wall?

I'm about to start at uni with people who were 1 when the wall came down... I remember watching it on telly..................

GULP!

No wonder I feel like a perv when sneaking peeks at the young curves walking by in the hallways of the uni these days. Most were born in 1989. But then again I feel like a perv if I sneak a peek at breasts of girls my own age as well.

Maybe it has nothing to do with age.

[demagogic_schizoid]

Where are you guys from? Here in England nobody who was born in 1989 has started uni yet.

[Dom]

No but those born in 1987/1988 will in about 2 weeks time lad! And I bet ther are a couple of very very bright 1989'ers

Other unis in other countries, like Scotland do, start uni at 17...

[Carebear]

Haha, miscalculation. My sister born in 1988 is starting in uni next year, so I figured: One year older, 1989, started this year. Who would have guessed I started uni with mathematics.

Edit: Norwegian btw.

[demagogic_schizoid]

Moridin what uni are you going to be studying at?

[Dom]

Moridin what uni are you going to be studying at?

History at the University of East Anglia,

Studied a University of Leicester too but never finsihed a degree..

Why?

[demagogic_schizoid]

Because I'm starting uni (I had an unplanned gap year doing lots of dodgy jobs) and I was just interested.

[Dom]

Because I'm starting uni (I had an unplanned gap year doing lots of dodgy jobs) and I was just interested.

Cool, where and what?

(hehehe I've had 8 unplanned gap years since leaving leicester... lol)

[Madrigal]

I remember Sept 14th or 15th I believe, getting the bus to school with this kid who was saying to me "I don't get it, why do we have to have a minutes silence just because a fucking plane crashed. It happens all the time". I said to him that it's a bit different because lots of planes crashed, two of them into skyscrapers, and he laughed and said "cool, what are the chances of that". I told him someone did it on purpose. He laughed again, he couldn't believe it. "Oh well, I would just push the other passengers out of the way, grab a prachute and say fuck all of you I'm going home". :)

He wasn't really in keeping with the mood of the time, I guess he didn't watch the news. It still makes me laugh to this day.

LOL. He embodied so much, the poor thing.

[Ferrus]

Today is actually the anniversary of the seige of Vienna, which took place from september 11-12th.

[demagogic_schizoid]

Cool, where and what?

(hehehe I've had 8 unplanned gap years since leaving leicester... lol)

8 gap years? the more the better I say. Who, at your age, wouldn't secretly love to still be a student? I bet not many people. And from my experience (I went to Southampton Uni for 2 months) every student loves to hang around with an older guy - you will be like a kind of highly irresponsible uncle to them (unless you are in fact a very responsible chap and I've judged you wrongly). Are you living in halls or renting, or staying at home?

I'm doing Latin American Studies at Liverpool. I've decided to go into uni life, both academic and social, with as few preconceptions as possible, hoping it goes better than last time (as I'm confident it will).

[Dom]

8 gap years? the more the better I say. Who, at your age, wouldn't secretly love to still be a student? I bet not many people. And from my experience (I went to Southampton Uni for 2 months) every student loves to hang around with an older guy - you will be like a kind of highly irresponsible uncle to them (unless you are in fact a very responsible chap and I've judged you wrongly). Are you living in halls or renting, or staying at home?

I'm doing Latin American Studies at Liverpool. I've decided to go into uni life, both academic and social, with as few preconceptions as possible, hoping it goes better than last time (as I'm confident it will).

Well, they wont let me have a room in halls for a few weeks as I live to oclose, I have to wait till they know who isn't turning up and who is dorrping out etc and then give me one, but yes onto halls.

As for responsibility, I'm responsible but you have rightly noticed that I have an extremely playful nature... I'll be fun rather than stuff, but safe... not quite up to the student pranks I was 10 years ago...

So I guess instead of instigating said pranks, I'll probably just watch, encourage, and laugh this time...

I have no clue what to expect either...

[demagogic_schizoid]

just watching eh? you say that now, let's see what you're like after a year living in halls (assuming someone drops out of course, proably not very long odds)....

[Claverhouse]

Today is actually the anniversary of the seige of Vienna, which took place from september 11-12th.

You mean the Battle of Vienna ( 1689 ): the great siege had begun months before. And The Siege of Vienna refers to the previous attempt in 1529.

John III Sobieski saved us all.


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Ferrus]

John III Sobieski saved us all.
And Charles Martel.

[Carebear]

And Charles Martel.

Not only did they save us, they saved our souls from eternal damnation. How many would belive in the only way to salvation today had the Muslims conquered Europe?

God be praised for giving us men to save the western world from damnation to hell. (And God be damned for not giving the the egyptian christians, the syrians, the turks and a bunch of other christians someone to protect them from Islam and eternal damnation!)

[Ferrus]

Not only did they save us, they saved our souls from eternal damnation. How many would belive in the only way to salvation today had the Muslims conquered Europe?
About 10% probably.

However, the destruction of what was to become Western civilisation not the destruction of Christianity was what I was alluding to.

[Dom]

About 10% probably.

However, the destruction of what was to become Western civilisation not the destruction of Christianity was what I was alluding to.

Back then this was the same thing.....

[Ferrus]

Back then this was the same thing.....
Not really. The chuch dominated peoples minds and had enormous social, political and economic power - but it was not alone. As any student of the Invesiture Controversy or King Henry II/John's battles with the Pope will inform you.

Besides which if Islam had of invaded Europe, it is likely that Christian culture would survive (though very weakened) but secular Western culture would probably never have been conceived.

[Dom]

I'm sorry I did not say the church as a institution embodied western civilization.

I implied that western civilization, at that time, was synonymous with Christianity...

I think that is fair, regardless of various struggles between crown and church, both institutions can be said to be Christian, culturally and morally.
And both would have been destroy by a successful invasion.

Of course if they hadn't been stopped at Vienna, would they have been stopped somewhere else?? Probably...

[Ferrus]

I'm sorry I did not say the church as a institution embodied western civilization.

I implied that western civilization, at that time, was synonymous with Christianity...Which it was... well Western Christianity. Eastern Orthodox christianity diverged sharply as a culture which is why there were the misunderstandings that occured during the crusades. However, had the Islamic Empire invaded there would have been no Renaissance or Enlightenment in Europe - which would have left the world desitute of intellectual ability because the Islamic empire was deprived of its domination of science and the arts by the Mongol invasions.


I think that is fair, regardless of various struggles between crown and church, both institutions can be said to be Christian, culturally and morally.
And both would have been destroy by a successful invasion.

Of course if they hadn't been stopped at Vienna, would they have been stopped somewhere else?? Probably...
Probably, yes. After all in the east the Muslims were halted by the Chinese Empire - although that was a fairly close run incident itself. Much of West China is Muslim. Even so there is the problem of inertia, as the Byzantines and Persians found.

[Park]

My wedding day.

[Carebear]

Which it was... well Western Christianity. Eastern Orthodox christianity diverged sharply as a culture which is why there were the misunderstandings that occured during the crusades. However, had the Islamic Empire invaded there would have been no Renaissance or Enlightenment in Europe - which would have left the world desitute of intellectual ability because the Islamic empire was deprived of its domination of science and the arts by the Mongol invasions.


I don't see why Renaissance or Enlightenment couldn't have occured in an Islamic Europe. There's no way such an extended empire would be able to avoid shattering eventually. A muslim reformation could just as easily have occurred as a christian did. But of course there's no telling what would have happened if you changed history in such a major way.