The Other Iraq (?)

[charred_heart]

http://www.theotheriraq.com/

If the Iraqis don't want a democratic state, we'll give one to those who do!


...


Kurdistan is a region that's within the borders of Turkey, Iraq and Iran. As I understand it their land was taken away by conquest, to be part of empires long since past. It would be great for the Kurds to have their own country back but if they rush this, they will be drawn into a series of wars they'll never be able to get out of.

I see this part of Iraq as the future political hot zone in the coming few years.

[Heleuiski]

Yep the kurds have had their lands butchered and split.
Will be interesting to see this develop.

[Ymir]

I agree. The Kurdish people should have their own state. Iraq never was a nation state. The rest of Iraq should be divided to create smaller more stable states.

[Nighthawk]

The superpowers have had no qualms about carving up countries in the past. Look at Germany.

[demagogic_schizoid]

Turkey would be furious, and the west really needs them on side. So no, I can't see it happening.

[Ivy]

Iraq 2: Electric Boogaloo

[Ymir]

Turkey would be furious, and the west really needs them on side.
Why? I belive this is one of the benefits from giving the kurds their own state. Besides a hostile Turkey would never be allowed into the EU.

[the_e11eventh_hour]

The U.S. has tactial nuclear weapons IN Turkey, what do you think about that?

[Ymir]

The U.S. has tactial nuclear weapons IN Turkey, what do you think about that? So? I do not see the problem.

[the_e11eventh_hour]

My point is, I don't see the US doing anything to create a hostile Turkey for the reason I stated, plus, isn't Turkey used as a launching pad in the Region?

[Ymir]

My point is, I don't see the US doing anything to create a hostile Turkey for the reason I stated, plus, isn't Turkey used as a launching pad in the Region?
No. Turkey didn't allow the US to attack Iraq from Turkey. I think the Kurds has a real chance of creating their own state. Why should they be denied? If the Kurds declared independence. Would the US and the UN allow foreign intervention from Iran or Turkey?

[ShadyShady]

Sunday, September 03, 2006
I really worry about the future of Kurds in the Arab world, and I say that as a supporter of Kurdish national rights in Kurdistan. But the provocative behavior of Kurdish tribal leaders--that is what they are--will really further poison relations between Arabs and Kurds, especially after the US occupation soldiers pack and leave.


posted by As'ad @ 1:31 PM link


Kurds have been cooperating with the us troops, if and when they leave, its not looking good for them.

[the_e11eventh_hour]

http://www.incirlik.af.mil/

Quote from the site above "Close to many of the world?s potential trouble spots, Incirlik Air Base, Turkey, is an important base in NATO?s Southern Region. Although the 39th Air Base Wing, the base's host wing, has no permanently assigned U.S. Air Force aircraft, the wing carries an important mission to help protect U.S. and NATO interests in the Southern Region by providing a responsive staging and operational air base ready to support full spectrum operations.

What makes you think that they will create their own state? From what I've read they are about 20% of the population. Do you think the Southeast will separate and declare independence? It took NATO 3 years to step into the Bosnian conflict, what would happen if turkey split? Do you think the US would run to the rescue? We are already overextended.

[ShadyShady]

The following email is from Rizgar Khosnow, who is a Kurdish man with US citizenship and author of the book, Nothing Left But Their Voices. Khosnow lives in the Kurdish region of northern Iraq, where most people in the US are led to believe things are so much better than the rest of Iraq. This first email is from August 12 2006:

We have been stuck at home this summer because it is so hot here and we have very little electricity. Things are not that great here. As I have said in the past, I am considered wealthy here and I am just barley keeping my head above water. Believe it or not, I am spending $600-700 a month in gas alone! This gas I use to run my two generators, at different times in the day, and I must use them to run lights and fans. The rent is getting so ridiculous that the president of Kurdistan came on TV last night and said that he will do something about the rent increase that is going on here.

Three years ago, I rented a furnished home for $100 in the city of Arbil. Now, I pay $1500 a MONTH without furniture! My next door neighbor rented his home for $3,500 a month. Things are extremely bad here. The rich are robbing the poor. I wish I knew how people here are living when their monthly salaries are no more than $200 a month! Last year, a gallon of gas cost 25 cents and now the same gallon cost $6.00.

Here is another email from him:

I am glad that you are trying your best to get the word out. I feel that we need to let all Americans know what is going on. I have moved to my new home and it has taken me one week to do so. I have help from three of my relatives who are staying with me till I finish everything, and we still cannot seem to complete all that work that is needed. You will not believe how difficult things are here and how much I needed to do in my new home. Things are not easy here. At the new home we have electricity one hour a day. I have now bought another generator, now I have three of them, to give me power to run lights and fans. We also have not had water for three days so I had to buy water worth $20 a day! That is life here even for the well-to-do like myself!

Here is another email from him:

It is true what is going on is horrifying, but there is even more happening every day that goes by. Since I am moving from my current home to a new home, my cousin told me that he will come to Arbil and help us move. He lives in Baghdad. He called this morning and told me that he cannot make it because of the curfew that is going on in Baghdad. There is absolutely nobody going out of their home at any time.

It was supposed to be for two days but now it will be one full week. The curfew is only in the Sunni areas. That means the Shi'ites will still have their weapons to kill more Sunnis as they wish. Yesterday, some 20 or so soldiers entered all the homes in my cousin's area. They entered my cousin's home to search for weapons. It was a very scary and unpleasant experience for my relatives. Let me tell you what that means for people too scared to leave their houses now.

They have no food; only water, bread and some rice. Since there is no electricity, they cannot store food. We all know that Iraqis go to the market on a daily basis to buy food or they have to stay hungry for a week. Since there is no electricity, some areas have large private generators that they turn on for at most five hours a day to give each home enough power to run two fans and few lights- each home usually gets 4 to 5 Amps. They usually charge a lot of money for this service, and even that is not working this week, because the owner of the generator is not allowed to turn it on and he cannot even leave his home. Anyone needing medicine is out of luck. No government offices are open. Anyone needing to go to the hospital must wait for a week! Simply put, Iraq is nothing but a large prison.

Here is an email from him on August 19 2006:

I do have a lot to say and I wish to get the word out. No American can imagine what is going on here at this time. It seems that the sad stories never end here. Just a few weeks ago, my cousins, the five of them brothers, were warned that they would be killed if they did not leave their homes in the Sunni areas of Baghdad. They all packed their bags and moved to Egypt with their families. The brothers will return to Kurdistan to work with me in the next couple of months once they set up their families in Egypt. This is the life in Iraq, and Bush and Rice keep telling us that we are "making progress in Iraq." What a bunch of bull - -

Here is an email from him on August 28 2006:

I have concluded that there is no way on earth that Iraq will recover, as one country, in the next ten to twenty years. We need a new generation here if we are going to see any kind of peace. There have been so many killings here that there is no way one will forgive the other. I personally know many people in Baghdad who are waiting for the right time to seek revenge on others that have hurt them. There has been so much hurt here that you can never imagine it.

Iraqis have given up on peace in Baghdad especially. There is no hope. What you see on TV is propaganda and controlled by the USA and is absolutely not true. There is no such thing as "reconciliation" between Iraqis. There has been too much blood spilled and Iraqis are VERY well known not to forget and forgive.


,

[Ferrus]

The superpowers have had no qualms about carving up countries in the past. Look at Germany.
Only if it suits their designs. A Kuridstan would rest uneasily with Turkey, Iran and whatever state would replace that of Iraq in the south. It would prove an ever greater headache than Israel from the West's and particularly the USA's perspective.

[last_caress]

The U.S. has tactial nuclear weapons IN Turkey, what do you think about that?

Somebodies going to get a big surprise come Thanksgiving.

[PenguinHunter]

As much as I love Kurdistan, I don't think there will ever be any Kurdish state let alone one that takes land from Iran and Turkey.

The biggest problems are not even Iran and Turkey though. The two main Kurdish factions (PUK and KDP) hate each other as much as they hated Saddam. Recently Barzani and Talabani have been willing to work together because they were operating for the Kurds within the Iraqi state. Talabani became the Iraqi president, and Barzani became the first president of Kurdistan Autonomous Region - representing Kurds for the Iraqi state.

However, if there was a Kurdish nation state, I don't think this relationship would work. The KDP and the PUK would go back to fighting for control and if you throw the Iranian and Turkish factions into the mix. . . my God. How would the leader be decided? Who draws up the constitution? Do the majority of Kurds (in Iraq or elsewhere) even want a unified state? Some outspoken ones feel it would be ideal but I think many would be happier remaining a part of Iraq so long as they have some representation in the government.

Particularly in Iraq, there is also the issue of Iraqi national identity amongst Kurds. It's not as if all the Kurds in Iraq reside the north. Baghdad has a large Kurdish community and there are other smatterings throughout the country. From talking to Kurds (although I've only met a couple), and from my own reading, many (most?) Kurds give themselves a dual identity. Iraqi Kurds are just that: Kurdish and Iraqi. Neither seems to trump the other.

Think of the Quebecois (hehehe) for an example closer to home, for some here anyway. They are powerfully aware of an identity distinct from Canada, but ultimately this is partnered with a Canadian identity as well, which is why they will never separate.