Divorce and custody question

[nona]

Hello, I joined this list for the sole purpose of getting some opinions on my current personal situation. (but this looks interesting, so I may stick around a while)

First the background.

I am male and of course INTP with the I being the only weak charictoristic (about 58 or so) I am 42 and have 3 little girls.

I am currently divorcing an ISFJ with serious (diagnosed) mental problems and a narcotics history.

This makes for a pretty straight forwards custody case, but one wild card is her continual insistance that I am too much of a loner, I am too withdrawn, I have never shown love for the girls, I don't know the first thing about rasing kids, etc.

Of course, these are pretty much standard complaints that are often leveled at INTPs.

I was wondering if anyone out there had any thoughts on divorce and custody cases and using MB type as a defence against these complaints. I really find it odd that she hasn't figured out the truth or perhaps she has and doesn't admit it... She has a degree in psyc and a masters in sociology so you would think she would understand something as fundimental as personality type.

Anyway, any thoughts or experiences you guys/gals have in this would be most welcom.

Thanks in advance

nona

[Serotonin]

You're defence should be quite easy. With your ex's mental state, it can be surmised that she will cause more harm to your girls than you will. A competent family court judge will recognise that the potential for causing them harm is a much more important issue than the potential for the amount of love that can be given....
As for using MB type, be careful. We here at the board all hold the system in fair esteem, but the judge might not. Maybe you should say that these things (being withdrawn etc) are your natural personality, but as a mentally healthy person this doesn't compromise the love you have for your children (possibly in comparison to your ex). Put an emphasis on the times you have stepped in for your girls and assumed responsibility. Just because you haven't shown love to your girls IN YOUR EX'S EYES doesn't mean you actually haven't. I'm sure you show a great deal of love in your own subtle way. Good luck!
P.S. I don't have children of my own, but I am the son of a social worker and hear about these type of cases all the time over the dinner table....
P.P.S. My ex-girlfriend is an ISFJ. So I know how dreadful you've had it.

[nona]

Thanks Ser. :) so most ISFJs are bad for me?? :)

I am actualy thinking of bringing in an expert on the MB thing. But you are right, I don't know how much stock the Judge will put in it.

Fortunatly (or maybe unfortunatly) my lawer is also degreed in Psycology. But I don't want to go rushing over the edge with both of us beliveing in it if the Judge doesn't.

I hope she (my lawyer) has a good read on the judge. RE this issue.

Again, thanks for the opinion. It is exactly these sort of things I am looking for.

[Serotonin]

so most ISFJs are bad for me??

Well, I could be fair and say MB isn't everything, i'm sure an INTP and an ISFJ can get on well together (e.g. my parents, but here's the rub, my mum is INTP and dad is an ISFJ, kinda rare for their genders), but I've gotta say, in my experience, INTP male and ISFJ female are superficially attracted, but deeper down the relationship is doomed from the start.
INFJ females, now there's a different story. I swoon over them... not just romantically but cerebrally as well....

[nona]

"in my experience, INTP male and ISFJ female are superficially attracted, but deeper down the relationship is doomed from the start. "

That is a 5x5 read on my personal situation with her. About as true a statement as I have heard from anyone on this. :)

[melancholeric]

Iganokami's Guide to the ISFJ Female (http://homepage.mac.com/bahlberg/iblog/B1386252977/C707866389/E2092739525/index.html)

[synchronous]

My experience with divorce and custody is that the courts will determine wether either of you or both meet 'good enough' parent criteria. Your wife might be on medication and diagnosed with mental issues - could be a negative for her, but, if she is functional, one could argue she is responsible enough to clean up her act. Conversely, she could counter argue and say you are in denial of your own mental issues and that you are irresponsible and negligent.

If this process takes place within a county or state that is strongly tradition/faith based, there is a good possibility that the bias will go in favor of the parent with similar values, so long as she/he meets the 'good enough parent' criteria. Since your wife is an SJ, that could very well work in her favor, regardless of her mental health issues. If you are an atheist/agnostic and have no plans to raise the children under Faith and religion, then, best of luck to you in this scenario. As well, depending on the age of the children, they may be brought into the process to be given a voice on their preferences.

I can attest the divorce process doesn't necessarily result in a logical conclusion. Often times the decisions and results are value-driven. In any case, the judge and the lawyers have probably heard it all before. Arguing that you are the logical choice because your wife has mental issues would probably be a weak position in their view.

I found these links in my travels on the net: One deals with negotiating patterns of MBTI type pairings, and the other link discusses in more detail the INTP type personality in more detail, and the strengths/weaknesses of the type in divorce proceedings. There is similar information on the ISFJ personality type as well.

http://www.halverson-law.com/negot.htm

http://www.halverson-law.com/intp.htm

Best of luck to you.

[nobarcode]

That link nailed my father, an ESFP, who just went through a divorce.

[Sackanaka]

I really find it odd that she hasn't figured out the truth or perhaps she has and doesn't admit it... She has a degree in psyc and a masters in sociology so you would think she would understand something as fundimental as personality type.


nona

I'm kinda relieved to hear/see that I'm not the only one feeling like this. My girlfriend, ISTJ/ISFJ doesn't even want to talk about typology at all... but I think that's my fault too since I talk about it so much :p.
Those were great links btw :D

[Dman]

Sorry to hear about your divorce. Hang in there.

Your ex's opinion that you are too much of a loner and withdrawn should have little weight in the case. Her narcotics history and diagnosed mental issues would be much more critical, as those two things can be directly related as potentially harmful to child-rearing, whereas your "loner" personality is simply a description of your social behavior, not your child-rearing ability.

The fact that she is the mother and you are the father is probably the biggest obstacle you face.

[SheepDog]

The fact that she is the mother and you are the father is probably the biggest obstacle you face.
Sad, but true, I'm afraid.

If you love the girls, I bet you can find a way to show it. As for being introverted, I don't see why that would be so bad. "Sure, your honor, I'm a homebody. I'd rather stay home with my girls than be running around doing who-knows-what."

[mgb]

My parents just went through a divorce. My sister and I were both adults so that wasn't an issue. The one thing I learned is that its all lawyering. I came up with a ton of strategies for my mom to deal with the whole thing...they really didn't matter too much because its what the lawyer decides to do. My advice, get the best lawyer possible. In my experience a really strong J is a big asset in a lawyer.

In reality, lots of people are withdrawn, I don't think it will way to heavily on the judges mind, especially if you are trying to act in your kids best interests.

[nona]

Thanks all, for the links, the thoughts, and the insights.

[tragula]

I think the most important point is semantics. If you are labled a loner or withdrawn, then you just have to put the "positive" label on it-- that you are a private person who shows his love for his children in his own quiet ways. Maybe you are not the loudest brashest, write your love in the sky type, but that you do care deeply even when you have a hard time verbalizing it.

Make sure the judge gets the message that you are all about the kids and not trying to use the kids to get to her. That you want what's best for them, and that you would never try and shut their mother out of the picture. And express some honest concern about her history and whether she could ever really be reformed.
Best of luck.

[shadowjack]

It looks like I too am headed for a divorce from an ISFJ. I can feel for you. I do not have children which would have added an additional emotional element that would make things so difficult I don't even like to think about it.

As far as portraying yourself, if you can express (I know, not our strongest trait) the true joy that being a dad brings to your life you will be off to a fine start. Just don’t be afraid to show emotion, you don’t want to be painted as a cold emotionally repressed robot by her lawyer. Take a good inventory of yourself and look at things that have the potential to be viewed negatively and ask your friends and lawyer what they think and how such things could be viewed and how you would like them to be perceived in the most positive light.

From the psychology standpoint if she is what you are describing she can be portrayed as an emotionally immature woman with an addictive personality who will use transference to imprint all her needs and insecurities on her children and use her children as an emotional crutch when *she* should be the supportive one, while you being the mature adult in life and your marriage would raise emotionally healthy, well adjusted and independent children which the world really needs more of.

You are going through a difficult time and I wish you well, feel free to contact me if you like, I have some understanding of what you are going through and some issues hit pretty close to home.

I started also thread on INTP and ISFJ relationships if you want to take a look.
http://forums.intpcentral.com/showthread.php?t=1530