Now that Gender has been discussed...

[Pati]

what about age? Could have tastefully ranges.

[int]

I don't know...some of us see age as irrelevant. I mean, I'm 25 but certainly don't feel 25, and others have said similiar...

[nobarcode]

There is an age poll archived (from the old site). I think.

[file cabinet]

There is an age poll archived (from the old site). I think.

I am not sure if threads that had polls actually had the poll details in them :(
http://intpcentral.com/index.php?mode=archive&a=thread&thread=196

doesn't look like it.
if someone compiled a list of all the threads that were polls then I would be able to update the archive.. there are reasons beyond my control for why the poll information wasn't easily able to copy

[Pati]

What age do you feel, int?
I agree that age isn't as relevant as our beauty/youth culture portreys it, but there is a difference in experience and memories. I find that as I age I change a lot. I am no longer who I was in high school. But I think age is just as relevant as gender, why would one be and not the other?

[Claverhouse]

Youth is important, but as far as age goes you could have a tasteful range of:

-6 -12 -16 16-19 20-22 Over 22. Cos' the human body starts declining from 22 onwards... :) :devil:



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Pati]

Yea...I was thinking of tasteful ranges. Wide ranges. 0 to 15, 16 to 25 and so forth. Or ranges of how old you feel instead of chronological age.
Sad isn't it that we spend most of our life (if we live past 21 acording to your information) in a steady state of physical decline. Are you sure it doesn't start to decline sooner, like right after puberty?

[Claverhouse]

The reason is simple: as wild animals we were not meant to last beyond 30.


Claverhouse :ph34r:


( Still, the life of the mind goes on, if that's any consolation. I'd prefer to be 14 though ).

[HairlessBluetick]

14! Oh, for that time again.

[Johnny]

The reason is simple: as wild animals we were not meant to last beyond 30.
How did you arrive at this conclusion?

And feel free to simplify the reason further... :D

[Claverhouse]

You don't remember the Neolithic ? Wandering about in small bunches and throwing stones if we met another bunch of folk ? Led by the 'Old Man' who was generally about 26 and revered for the wisdom his lengthy years had brought ? It was neither the most healthy or erudite of times, but it had it's moments; watching sunsets ( and wondering what they were ); chasing each other when gathering food; grooming one's loved one for fleas...


What I remember best are those damn forests of ferns: get lost in there and no-one bothered trying to find you...



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Pati]

That comment about puberty was tongue in check. Or almost anyway. Should have put up a sign I guess! LOL
But anyway, I think once you mature and everything is locked into place so to speak by the hormones it's just a matter of time until they all run out (the entire endocrine system as well). Planned obsolescence. :-)

[int]

What age do you feel, int?
I agree that age isn't as relevant as our beauty/youth culture portreys it, but there is a difference in experience and memories. I find that as I age I change a lot. I am no longer who I was in high school. But I think age is just as relevant as gender, why would one be and not the other?

I've always felt 21 or so.

I forget what I said last time...21-23 or something...Early twenties...we had this discussion a few weeks ago, I'm too lazy to look it up.

Others said they felt similiar.

That's not meant to discount experience though, as I've certainly learned my share over the past couple years. :mellow:

[shaytana]

Yes, I believe we were talking about maturity.

I gain wisdom and experience with the passing years, but I do not seem to mature as society would have it. I am 28 and I have yet to conform, to settle down, to find my path. I am a much different person than I was when I was 21, yet I am not the mature responsible 28 year old that I should be, nor do I want to be.

Age has it relevancies, in as far as experience goes. But there are life stages that society has built and depending on your age you should fall into a specific stage, if you are not at the right stage at the appropriate age society will tell you that you must change to be happy. Be more mature or less, to place yourself in the stage that they say you must be in. It is these stages that I find irrelevant.

[Miss Padfoot]

14! Oh, for that time again.You know, this is reminding me of what my friend says: that adults tend to get nostalgic about their teenage years. I'm 16 and I think practically everything about middle school sucked. High school is only slightly better. Did you actually like being 14?

[file cabinet]

14! Oh, for that time again.You know, this is reminding me of what my friend says: that adults tend to get nostalgic about their teenage years. I'm 16 and I think practically everything about middle school sucked. High school is only slightly better. Did you actually like being 14?

I disliked high school and I've disliked most of the college I've experienced so far.

[CosmicDust]

Claverhouse, it's not true that wild animals aren't meant to last beyond 30. Sure, the cat family often doesn't make it beyond 15, but elephants can go until about 60 in the wild and turtles a century or two. Humans, I'd say, would have a typical "wild" lifespan of maybe 40 years if they don't die from other causes before that. There would typically be at least a few grandparents in the tribe to help the generation of teens and young adults learn to pass on the rituals and raise the children. I think...

I'm over the hill myself (24).

[HairlessBluetick]

14! Oh, for that time again.You know, this is reminding me of what my friend says: that adults tend to get nostalgic about their teenage years. I'm 16 and I think practically everything about middle school sucked. High school is only slightly better. Did you actually like being 14?

I did. But I think I'm the only one.

[Claverhouse]

Claverhouse, it's not true that wild animals aren't meant to last beyond 30. Sure, the cat family often doesn't make it beyond 15, but elephants can go until about 60 in the wild and turtles a century or two. Humans, I'd say, would have a typical "wild" lifespan of maybe 40 years if they don't die from other causes before that.

All species have their own optimum length of life, I was speaking only of humans in the wild. The fact that we are not in the wild offers too many benefits to list, but it cannot alter the programming.

And those other causes, if in the wild, generally lopped us off one by one fairly quickly: we probably didn't get heart disease or cancer ( these being diseases of civilisation and life-style ) but you only had to fall funny when coming down a tree, break your ankle, and you were a goner. No pain-relief, no hospital treatment ( and if you point out that they would give medical assistance to the best of their ability, I would point out that as near as the 18th century, medical aid was not only excruciating but positively more dangerous than the illness often enough ). Anyway, the main evidence would be that after 22 sperm and egg quality both decline not only quantatively, but in quality as well...

And to Miss Padfoot: it wasn't school I was nostalgic about: school sucked, teachers sucked, my fellow pupils sucked. But 14, at least for a boy, means you are now an adult, with most of an adult's powers, and few of the responsibilities. Anyway, 14 was fun. Besides which men look less attractive the more they grow up: ask any manga artist. Women look fine at any age ( within reason, if CosmicDust is going to say that they can live to 150 ).



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[CosmicDust]

Nobody's been known for certain to live until 150 - 121 or 122 or so is about as old as people get, and you've gotta have some damn lucky genetics for that. Hunter-gatherer tribes (effectively "wild" humans) don't necessarily have nobody over 30, though...30 might be the average lifespan or something, the life expectancy, but from the looks of it on some anthro shows I've seen there can be 40-50 somethings. Chances are, our cro-magnon ancestors lived fairly similarly to forager tribes, but without the ability to trade for modern clothes or anything. Having the younger folks to procure food for the aging can allow some grandparents to survive; the grandparents make the trade-off with their knowledge, wisdom, and perhaps craftsmanship (tool-making and art and such, work that requires little physical exertion).

[Melody]

Having the younger folks to procure food for the aging can allow some grandparents to survive; the grandparents make the trade-off with their knowledge, wisdom, and perhaps craftsmanship (tool-making and art and such, work that requires little physical exertion).

Just thought I would throw in: http://forums.keenspace.com/viewtopic.php?t=58925&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=129 (note -- old topic)

Interesting because neanderthals are commonly thought of as idiots.

[CosmicDust]

From what I've heard, they were nearly as smart as us (likely had language too), and had bigger brains. They had both brains and brawn - but were not nomadic as Cro-Magnons and were perhaps a little less innovative as well, and so they stayed in their death-traps instead of moving onto and adapting to new environments.

[Jkrs]

Also, some studies of their teeth indicate that neanderthals reached adulthood earlier. Larger brains + shorter time to maturity = less famine resistance.

[Melody]

Can you explain that?

[HairlessBluetick]

Perhaps you meant more famine resistance?

[Jkrs]

A larger brain needs more resources to grow properly (the brain is the most expensive system in the body, using about 1/3 of a humans' total energy intake), and a shorter time to maturity means that that energy is needed all at once. If someone with greater brain mass to support was in a situation where they couldn't get enough food, their reserves would run out faster.
That'd mean a higher mortality rate among neanderthals, particularly those who were still growing, compared to most humans in the same situation.

[Melody]

That is with the assumption that at the end of growth, both the human's and neanderthal's brains would have used the same amount of energy.

Is it possible that the rate of energy consumption during brain growth is equal for both the neanderthal's and human's brains?

-edit- I forgot that you said their brains were larger. Nevermind. ^.^

[CosmicDust]

Neanderthals were smart jocks - had lots of brain mass and muscle mass. Tough buggers. Perhaps the growing up fast was compensation for the fact that between their huge metabolisms and their demanding lives taking down mammoths and other tough prey, they were likely to die young anyway. Early maturity would allow them a better chance to reproduce before they died of a fatal injury, and perhaps also take down large prey and escape danger at an earlier age by getting stronger sooner than moderns. A tribe of Neanderthals in which the 14-year-olds were about the physical maturity level of a 16-17-year-old modern would have more eligible hunters and procreators than a tribe of late bloomers.

[Miss Padfoot]

14! Oh, for that time again.You know, this is reminding me of what my friend says: that adults tend to get nostalgic about their teenage years. I'm 16 and I think practically everything about middle school sucked. High school is only slightly better. Did you actually like being 14?

I disliked high school and I've disliked most of the college I've experienced so far.Really? People I've talked to have said college is so much better than high school for someone like me. More freedom, really knowledgeable professors if you go to a good college, nobody constantly making sure you make complicated schedules of when you will study what subject or write what paper. I personally can't wait. Just one more year!

[Melody]

Well, the professors have more liberty, so you may get a "fun" range of professorationization.

[Miss Padfoot]

Do you mind defining that last word? I'm afraid I haven't run across it before, and it's not in Webster's or even the Scrabble dictionary (which, according to my brother, has everything faintly resembling a word).

[Melody]

Eh?