Just once [Archive] - INTP Central

nottaprettygal

3 Dec 2006, 06:08 PM

4 cops fire 42 shots at a guy reaching for a wallet, they walk...
now 5 cops let off 50 shots with one being responsible for 31 of those shots, if they walk on this...:mad:

Oh, and don't forget the Ousmane Zongo case in 2003. He was at work and unarmed when a NYC police officer shot him four times and killed him. The officer got sentenced to probation and nothing more.

And then there was that old lady who was killed by an officer when they were trying to evict her from her house. That NYC police officer was acquited.

There are couple of other NYPD cases that I can't recall. But yeah...Hearing about the most recent case angered me. I'd be surprised if any of the officers actually did jail time.

sbw

3 Dec 2006, 06:22 PM

It is my sincerist [sic] wish to see police officers murder an unarmed white male, just to prove race and class have nothing to do with it, or at least provide the appearance that it doesn't... :joft:

I share your anger over the general state of injustice...but as an unarmed white male I hope that you getting your wish doesnt unduly affect my ass :joft:

Scott

edit: word to james ingram

PiccoloNamek

3 Dec 2006, 06:27 PM

What about the incident just a few weeks ago where the cops murdered an innocent [white] marine? They drove up out of nowhere, tasered him until he vomited, and then opened fire on him. Of course, while they were tasering him, they kept yelling at him to put his hands up. When he finally managed to stand up and put his hands in the air, BLAM! The cops said they had to kill him because he wouldn't obey their commands. Gee, I wonder why?

I hate cops.

macr0

3 Dec 2006, 06:51 PM

Well, she was black, but Atlanta Cops killed a 92 year old woman in her home a few days ago. So we're getting closer.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/23/atlanta.shooting/index.html

kendoiwan

3 Dec 2006, 10:45 PM

I share your anger over the general state of injustice...but as an unarmed white male I hope that you getting your wish doesnt unduly affect my ass :joft:

Scott

edit: word to james ingram

Who's James Ingram?:huh:

What about the incident just a few weeks ago where the cops murdered an innocent [white] marine? They drove up out of nowhere, tasered him until he vomited, and then opened fire on him. Of course, while they were tasering him, they kept yelling at him to put his hands up. When he finally managed to stand up and put his hands in the air, BLAM! The cops said they had to kill him because he wouldn't obey their commands. Gee, I wonder why?

I hate cops.

Unaware of that case, where did this happen?

Edit: NWA said it best... Fuck tha Police

Oh, and don't forget the Ousmane Zongo case in 2003. He was at work and unarmed when a NYC police officer shot him four times and killed him. The officer got sentenced to probation and nothing more.

And then there was that old lady who was killed by an officer when they were trying to evict her from her house. That NYC police officer was acquited.

There are couple of other NYPD cases that I can't recall. But yeah...Hearing about the most recent case angered me. I'd be surprised if any of the officers actually did jail time.

And don't forget the kid on the roof who was just listening to his cd player when a cop was "startled" and bang bang...
NYPD = license to kill unarmed black males

venerationOFrabbits

3 Dec 2006, 10:52 PM

I don't hate cops, whenever they stop me I think about how they must feel about approaching people. It's dangerous for them.

My father was a cop. Also my ex-husband was stopped (dark skinned) and he had a hunting rifle in his car and was then surrounded by cops, all with their guns pointed right at him. Scary shit man.

Even though, I still sympathize with the cops.

venerationOFrabbits

3 Dec 2006, 10:53 PM

My sister is a cop in Minneapolis. She was sexually abused by her daycare provider's husband, they lost the case in court against him.

She prolly takes a few things out on ppl.

kendoiwan

3 Dec 2006, 11:01 PM

venerationOFrabbits

3 Dec 2006, 11:09 PM

I hate fuck heads who murder and rape more.

kendoiwan

3 Dec 2006, 11:21 PM

And the police do what to stop or deter that? They only show up after the fact, and by then... well you know.

venerationOFrabbits

3 Dec 2006, 11:24 PM

And the police do what to stop or deter that? They only show up after the fact, and by then... well you know.

For most slime balls of the world, just the fact that there are people who put their lives on the line to slam said slime balls asses to the floor before locking them up for murdering and raping, that is enough to deter them.

think about it

kendoiwan

3 Dec 2006, 11:31 PM

For most slime balls of the world, just the fact that there are people who put their lives on the line to slam said slime balls asses to the floor before locking them up for murdering and raping, that is enough to deter them.

think about it

False, most rapist are repeat offenders, and most murders are crimes of passion... check your facts

venerationOFrabbits

3 Dec 2006, 11:32 PM

False, most rapist are repeat offenders, and most murders are crimes of passion... check your facts

sheesh, so you expect the cops to save the fucking world? Get a life man. Stop smoking so much weed.

kendoiwan

3 Dec 2006, 11:44 PM

No I expect cops not to shoot unarmed civilians and walk away with a slap on the wrist, especially when those unarmed civilians have the tendency to look like me...

venerationOFrabbits

3 Dec 2006, 11:51 PM

No I expect cops not to shoot unarmed civilians and walk away with a slap on the wrist, especially when those unarmed civilians have the tendency to look like me...

cops often do have reasons for becoming cops, not always healthy reasons, my dad was a fuck head and he was a cop. Drank, smoked weed, beat his wife, misused his authority, on and on.

I'm sure my sister the sexually abused cop has some shit to take out on a few bastards too.

venerationOFrabbits

3 Dec 2006, 11:52 PM

I'm sure those in the justice system protect each other.

kendoiwan

3 Dec 2006, 11:55 PM

Fuck em

MasterMerk

4 Dec 2006, 12:01 AM

There was also the pig who brutally sodomised a black protester with a broomstick for no apparent reason.

Cops are useless.

sbw

4 Dec 2006, 12:02 AM

cops often do have reasons for becoming cops, not always healthy reasons, my dad was a fuck head and he was a cop. Drank, smoked weed, beat his wife, misused his authority, on and on.

I'm sure my sister the sexually abused cop has some shit to take out on a few bastards too.

I'm sure those in the justice system protect each other.

its like you are arguing his point for him...

Scott

venerationOFrabbits

4 Dec 2006, 12:02 AM

my mom is a racist mofo bieoootch, last time I was at her house she was talking about how drunk she was and for somereason the cops visited her house and she told me how when the cops seen the pic of my sister the cop in uniform they were all chill with her

that was fucked up, I hate racists, I hate her too, I hate those cops

venerationOFrabbits

4 Dec 2006, 12:03 AM

its like you are arguing his point for him...

Scott

I think he's stoned myself, someone needs to J up this conversation

sbw

4 Dec 2006, 12:07 AM

sheesh, so you expect the cops to save the fucking world? Get a life man. Stop smoking so much weed.

this is the one that made me initially think that you were arguing AGAINST kendoiwan--did I miss something?

and, I might not be stoned :joft:

Scott

kendoiwan

4 Dec 2006, 12:07 AM

must you continue your personal attacks? That shooting happened in my neighborhood, I know that kids family, I know people who had to attend that funeral... this is no joke to me.

venerationOFrabbits

4 Dec 2006, 12:09 AM

must you continue your personal attacks? That shooting happened in my neighborhood, I know that kids family, I know people who had to attend that funeral... this is no joke to me.

well then say something more intelligent than "Fuck the Cops"

kendoiwan

4 Dec 2006, 12:10 AM

Fuck em

venerationOFrabbits

4 Dec 2006, 12:11 AM

must you continue your personal attacks? That shooting happened in my neighborhood, I know that kids family, I know people who had to attend that funeral... this is no joke to me.

I come from similar circumstances, I would like answers myself.

sbw

4 Dec 2006, 12:12 AM

well then say something more intelligent than "Fuck the Cops"

cops can make 'mistakes' with impunity. legislation is probably in order. am I helping?

Scott

edit: oh and kendoiwan you remember james ingram--*sings* "I gave it my best, but I guest my best wasnt good enough..." :lol:

kendoiwan

4 Dec 2006, 12:15 AM

I come from similar circumstances, I would like answers myself.

<_< do tell

venerationOFrabbits

4 Dec 2006, 12:17 AM

I don't see it as the cops so much, I see plenty of crimminal behavior in the communities. My sister is sitting in prison for selling crack and transporting weapons. The very weapons that were used to kill a cousin.

Many in my family are pissed at the justice system. :wtf:

and they want me to help finance this pathetic situation of visits to a Texas prison :wtf:

what you are expressing sounds like more 'poor me', and why don't people foresee some of this crap?

smoke some more weed if it makes you feel better

kendoiwan

4 Dec 2006, 12:21 AM

And I don't need to say anything more intelligent than 50 shots, unarmed civilian... but since you must insist on being a prick... it's police procedure not to break your cover. If while undercover you witness a crime you are to report it to your field unit, and not get involved unless absolutly necessary... Meaning that if this were a just world there is no way they walk with anything less than manslaughter for playing cowboy...

P.S. Prick

venerationOFrabbits

4 Dec 2006, 12:29 AM

yes I am prick, cause I'm sick and tired too, I have a beautiful neice who is being damaged by all this shit I explained, seems everyone would rather get stoned and blame the cops, rather than do something uncomfortable like get off their asses and do something that may actually do her some good. who knows, if she grew up in a healthier environment maybe she could contribute positively as an adult, but no they would rather smoke weed and bitch

Cause we all know smoking weed and bitching just FEELS good

venerationOFrabbits

4 Dec 2006, 12:31 AM

some people shouldn't be in the justice system, this is true

take a look at the Iraqi trooper who raped that 14 year old, it is despicable, but if you scratch a little deeper there were reasons to explain how something like that could happen

of course I don't justify what the rapist/murderer did, but there are circumstances outside of the perpetrator that lead up to it, it is a worthy enough cause and deserves to put forth more consideration than:

'fuck em'

kendoiwan

4 Dec 2006, 12:35 AM

You seem to have no point... so just say you don't have one prick...
Aside from the one instance mentioned about this marine that I still have to fact check, whenever one hears about excessive force applyed to an unarmed civilian they are overwhelmingly black males...

NEVER IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF NYPD has an unarmed white male been mistakenly fired at 50 times.

You don't know what it feels like to walk the streets at night and be more afraid of the police than any would be crooks...

Prick

sbw

4 Dec 2006, 12:35 AM

you are taking your weed angst out on this thread.

Scott

sbw

4 Dec 2006, 12:37 AM

You don't know what it feels like to walk the streets at night and be more afraid of the police than any would be crooks...

move here--safe plenty of jobs and it seems there are more white girls than black guys to go around baby

Scott

kendoiwan

4 Dec 2006, 12:38 AM

you are taking your weed angst out on this thread.

Scott

funny how I'm totally sober too... otherwise I'd truly light into him/her

sbw

4 Dec 2006, 12:39 AM

funny how I'm totally sober too... otherwise I'd truly light into him/her

its a her--she's really pretty too (ok thats probably not helping :lol:)

Scott

venerationOFrabbits

4 Dec 2006, 12:40 AM

funny how I'm totally sober too... otherwise I'd truly light into him/her

bring it on, and stop acting stoned or INTP or whatever you call that apathetic shit your on

kendoiwan

4 Dec 2006, 12:41 AM

its a her--she's really pretty too (ok thats probably not helping :lol:)

Scott

LMAO

kendoiwan

4 Dec 2006, 12:41 AM

bring it on, and quite acting stoned or INTP or whatever you call that apathetic shit your on

Clear misuse of a word... I sound anything but apathetic... it would more apply to your attitude actually...

Would you like a dictionary for christmas? I'm sure Santa will bring you one...

MasterMerk

4 Dec 2006, 12:44 AM

bring it on, and stop acting stoned or INTP or whatever you call that apathetic shit your on

lol, you're drunk aren't you.

sbw

4 Dec 2006, 12:46 AM

lol, you're drunk aren't you.

"she's not as think as you drunk she is, ossifer"

Scott

edit: this thread is awesome--the laughs per post is off the charts and thats all I want

venerationOFrabbits

4 Dec 2006, 12:46 AM

I wish, no just got done checking the fridge, all out of Heineken, dry as a judge

kendoiwan

4 Dec 2006, 12:52 AM

too bad, that would've explained your nonsensical ramblings thus far...

venerationOFrabbits

4 Dec 2006, 12:54 AM

too bad, the would've explained your nonsensical ramblings thus far...

if you would take your fingers out of your ears and stop singing la la la la, that might help

kendoiwan

4 Dec 2006, 12:57 AM

lets recap.
Me: Cops murder an unarmed man
You: Well that's sad, but not all cops are bad... btw I have family memebers who are cops and they're probably bad ones, but still, I love the cops because they keep me safe from black guys like you
Me: Cops murder an unarmed man in my 'hood... it's always an unarmed man from 'hoods like mine... Fuck em
You: Don't say fuck the nice police, you must be high
Me: Fuck you too...

Edit:Sbw: she's a sexy broad I'd love to pipe, so play nice Kendoi

sbw

4 Dec 2006, 01:00 AM

Edit:Sbw: she a sexy broad I'd love to pipe, so play nice Kendoi

man this some funny shit--and I'm a priest, so only little boys for me.

Scott

MasterMerk

4 Dec 2006, 01:01 AM

if you would take your fingers out of your ears and stop singing la la la la, that might help

I think you should lay down for a little while.

Conan

4 Dec 2006, 01:02 AM

Well, you did pretty much say "Fuck your Dad," I suppose you both have a right to be indignant.

kendoiwan

4 Dec 2006, 01:04 AM

Her dad does the shooting, my friends and family do the unarmed dying... Fuck em

Edit: Fuck em again for good measure

venerationOFrabbits

4 Dec 2006, 01:05 AM

no the cops are enough of a deterrent to keep most of the pathetic fucks from burning down our home, this is a true story example:

the pathetic fucks who tried this did not give a shit about the 8 month old in there, my family doesn’t give a shit that the father of the 8 month old was selling drugs and therefore also had a hand in this, nobody wants to blame him, it doesn't FEEL good to do that

let's just blame it on the 'fucked up in the head' cops, I'm not going to argue with you that the cops are not fucked up as well, what I am saying is there needs to be more responsibility taken on by the members of the communities themselves.

kendoiwan

4 Dec 2006, 01:06 AM

Yes, unarmed people need to do more not to be targets... How did I miss this point before?!?!

Edit: Your story has nothing to do with anything

venerationOFrabbits

4 Dec 2006, 01:12 AM

Yes, unarmed people need to do more not to be targets... How did I miss this point before?!?!

Edit: Your story has nothing to do with anything

so the unarmed people you speakith of, are just upstanding people, promoting education as a value, not doing any drugs themselves so they can raise healthy children, working on their own inner development so they can strive to benefit the hood. These upstanding citizens just happen to get in the way when those filthy dirty rasict cops come bust the door down to pop a cap in their asses.

that how it goes? or is there more to this?

kendoiwan

4 Dec 2006, 01:18 AM

Um yes actually...

kendoiwan

4 Dec 2006, 01:22 AM

http://www.ny1.com/ny1/Boroughs/queens.jsp

MasterMerk

4 Dec 2006, 01:28 AM

so the unarmed people you speakith of, are just upstanding people, promoting education as a value, not doing any drugs themselves so they can raise healthy children, working on their own inner development so they can strive to benefit the hood. These upstanding citizens just happen to get in the way when those filthy dirty rasict cops come bust the door down to pop a cap in their asses.

that how it goes? or is there more to this?

I don't get it. None of these people were priorly accused of any misdemeanors. The cops just rocked up and blew them away. And even if they were, it still doesn't justify shit or alleviate any responsibility on the part of the police. You assuming so much so quickly tells us nothing except that of your own prejudices.

kendoiwan

4 Dec 2006, 01:30 AM

I don't get it. None of these people were priorly accused of any misdemeanors. The cops just rocked up and blew them away. And even if they were, it still doesn't justify shit or alleviate any responsibility on the part of the police. You assuming so much so quickly tells us nothing except that of your own prejudices.

Oh no, the cops made a point of letting us know they had some sort of prior records,for what crimes I don't know, not that the cops knew this at the time of the murder, or anything like that but it certainly makes them less guilty doesn't it....

nottaprettygal

4 Dec 2006, 01:34 AM

I'm sure that not every cop is on some wicked power trip, although we hear about that type the most. Some cops are going to be racist, just as there are racist people in the general population. But the main problem I have is that the justice system can't even correct these wrongdoings after they happen.

I don't necessarily put much faith in individuals, but I would like to be able to trust the system. Stories like these make me realize that I can't.

kendoiwan

4 Dec 2006, 01:35 AM

nottaprettygal

4 Dec 2006, 01:40 AM

I agree, which leaves me with Fuck em...

Edit: Fuck em first, ask questions later

But how do we "fuck em?" And does it matter whether or not our actions are productive? Or are you advocating mass rioting and chaos?

venerationOFrabbits

4 Dec 2006, 01:45 AM

I agree, which leaves me with Fuck em...

Edit: Fuck em first, ask questions later

Nice attitude, I'm sure the cops appreciate it.

It's a community, each member contributes to it whether it's positively or negatively. To not claim that responsibility is what causes these horrible things to escalate. Yes, a person is small and only makes a small difference, but together those differences add up.

You can blame the cops and the cops can blame you right back. Nothing gets done.

Point a finger or point a gun, same result.

ajblaise

4 Dec 2006, 01:47 AM

I'd say they are more racist than the general population.

I used to get in trouble a lot when I was younger, I've been arrested a couple times, but I always got out of it because I'm from a small town middle class white family. The poorer kids from my town regularly got fucked over because the police knew they couldn't pay the fines.

If I was black or poor, I might be fucked right now. Disorderly conduct, a misdemeanor, and breaking into a golf course and trashing 10 golf carts with my friends which added up to a potential felony...but I never got charged with a thing.

I agree with kendo, fuk em.. for the most part.

kendoiwan

4 Dec 2006, 01:48 AM

kendoiwan

4 Dec 2006, 01:49 AM

Nice attitude, I'm sure the cops appreciate it.

It's a community, each member contributes to it whether it's positively or negatively. To not claim that responsibility is what causes these horrible things to escalate. Yes, a person is small and only makes a small difference, but together those differences add up.

You can blame the cops and the cops can blame you right back. Nothing gets done.

Point a finger or point a gun, same difference.

NO

guns kill people, fingers don't... Fuck em...

Edit: Prick

Did you even bother to read the article? I somehow doubt it...

kendoiwan

4 Dec 2006, 01:52 AM

I'd say they are more racist than the general population...

I don't doubt it, although Kramer makes me wonder...:joft:

venerationOFrabbits

4 Dec 2006, 01:54 AM

In my culture, when someone like me comes along "advocating" shit, he gets killed, see: Martin, Malcom, Medgar Evans, so on and etc... If not killed, jailed... If I were advocating anything I wouldn't say it here... So Fuck Em will have to suffice

keep up the attitude, but when your children are being buried, don't forget what you said, and what you didn't do

kendoiwan

4 Dec 2006, 01:56 AM

keep up the attitude, but when your children are being buried, don't forget what you said, and what you didn't do

Fuck you very much... you have no right to speak on my life, my experiences, or my children for christ sake... such a fucking prick... at least if you were drunk you could pull a Mel Gibson...

Edit: PRICK

nottaprettygal

4 Dec 2006, 01:58 AM

In my culture, when someone like me come along "advocating" shit, he gets killed, see: Martin, Malcom, Medgar Evans, so on and etc... If not killed, jailed... If I were advocating anything I wouldn't say it here... So Fuck Em will have to suffice

Hmm. True. I think it's clear that quiet demonstrations and such do nothing. I've gone to several of these related to cops, political prisoners, COINTELPRO etc., and it's impossible to get any mainstream media or politician to acknowledge what is taking place.

But an extreme course of action would just cause everyone to label you as an "angry black man" and probably not result in anything positive either. So, I guess there's no answer.

venerationOFrabbits

4 Dec 2006, 01:58 AM

i already told you I hate racism, so cut it out, k

kendoiwan

4 Dec 2006, 01:59 AM

There are answers... I'm just well aware of the consequences of wreckless speech, wouldn't want to be labeled an enemy combatant or anything like that after all...

kendoiwan

4 Dec 2006, 02:00 AM

i already told you I hate racism, so cut it out, k

A bigot who hates racism... interesting...:theclap:

Edit: Prick

venerationOFrabbits

4 Dec 2006, 02:01 AM

I'm not a bigot, but I know plenty of bigots, in fact I'm related to most of the bigots I know

kendoiwan

4 Dec 2006, 02:05 AM

You do realize being less of a bigot than someone you know doesn't make you any less of a bigot to the people you are bigoted against?

Edit:Bigot

venerationOFrabbits

4 Dec 2006, 02:06 AM

what am I bigoted against?

Dr. Haight

4 Dec 2006, 02:06 AM

Kendo, let's stop the name calling. You're scaring the white folks.

Thank you.

kendoiwan

4 Dec 2006, 02:10 AM

Kendo, let's stop the name calling. You're scaring the white folks.

Thank you.

She introduced it, I'm just doing it alot better is all... I'm always scaring the whitefolk around here anyway so what else is new?

But since you asked nicely, I'll play fair once more if she does...

ajblaise

4 Dec 2006, 02:10 AM

kendoiwan

4 Dec 2006, 02:12 AM

what am I bigoted against?

Unarmed black males who get murdered by police officers the day of their wedding walking out of their own bachelor party, and unarmed black males who are murdered while reaching for their wallets for starters...

Dr. Haight

4 Dec 2006, 02:13 AM

She introduced it, I'm just doing it alot better is all... I'm always scaring the whitefolk around here anyway so what else is new? Your tactics are usually a little more subtle. That's the difference.

Move along people, there's nothing to see here...

kendoiwan

4 Dec 2006, 02:13 AM

veneration's not a bigot, and I don't think the point she was trying to make had anything to do you with your color.

But with the gibson and kramer tirades, and the NYC shooting (which I agree was bullshit) going on...I can see why you might get defensive.

No I'm defensive because she's telling me I sound high because I have a problem with cops murdering unarmed civilians, who always happen to look like me

venerationOFrabbits

4 Dec 2006, 02:15 AM

kendoiwan,

If you must know, I'm Native American, yes and an ethnic one at that, I scare white people too.

I come from a community that is in trouble, most of the people in that community are bigots. It's a terrible way to raise children. It only contributes to shortening their life span expectancy, so I've noticed.

Sorry for being a prick and pissing you off. Like I said I'm fed up too. I see kids I care about die all the time.

kendoiwan

4 Dec 2006, 02:19 AM

"say what you want about me, but dammit spell my name right..." - author unknown by poster...

I suppose you being a member of the most fucked over group in the history of history means I can clean our slate... Or at least attempt to ignore your previous defense of the unarmed black male murders...

Dr. Haight

4 Dec 2006, 04:35 PM

There's a reference to this (the death of Sean Bell) in the NYT Op-Ed section today, authored by Bob Herbert and titled "Presumed Guilty."

It's worth a read.

immortalmack

4 Dec 2006, 04:49 PM

kendoiwan

5 Dec 2006, 06:00 PM

Power to the people!!! Free Huey!!!

OliverH

5 Dec 2006, 06:40 PM

At what point is guv'ment tyranny acknowledged.Is it on the federal level or the local level? Maybe we need to be reminded of the right to bear arms and defend our self against guv'ment tyranny.Guv'ment being the police who are supposed to defend the community in which they kill people. I say arm yourselves like wise.:bigguns:

Frankly, as a foreigner who's lived in the US for several years, I don't think it has anything to do with government tyranny but with paranoia. :peep: When the cops stop a car here in Germany, the one thing they have to afraid of is that they don't get hit by the car in case it speeds away again. The chance that they have to be afraid to be shot is minimal. Where in the US, I was advised to keep my hands on the wheel until the officer can clearly see them, you're likely to irritate a cop that way over here because he'll think you're wasting his time. Reminding people "of the right to bear arms" is precisely the counterproductive thing to do. The more likely it is for a cop to encounter a gun, the more likely he is to shoot first, ask questions later. The same is true, in my eyes, for the average street criminal. We have a black market here awash with fully automatic weapons. But your average burglar or mugger here has neither a revolver nor a Kalashnikov, for the simple reason that he doesn't need it. Since the chance that he encounters a firearm is slim, he doesn't pack one either -especially since doing so could get him carted off BEFORE the actual heist. :soap:

kendoiwan

5 Dec 2006, 06:41 PM

What part of unarmed man shot at 50 times don't you grasp exactly?

immortalmack

5 Dec 2006, 06:50 PM

Frankly, as a foreigner who's lived in the US for several years, I don't think it has anything to do with government tyranny but with paranoia. :peep: When the cops stop a car here in Germany, the one thing they have to afraid of is that they don't get hit by the car in case it speeds away again. The chance that they have to be afraid to be shot is minimal. Where in the US, I was advised to keep my hands on the wheel until the officer can clearly see them, you're likely to irritate a cop that way over here because he'll think you're wasting his time. Reminding people "of the right to bear arms" is precisely the counterproductive thing to do. The more likely it is for a cop to encounter a gun, the more likely he is to shoot first, ask questions later. The same is true, in my eyes, for the average street criminal. We have a black market here awash with fully automatic weapons. But your average burglar or mugger here has neither a revolver nor a Kalashnikov, for the simple reason that he doesn't need it. Since the chance that he encounters a firearm is slim, he doesn't pack one either -especially since doing so could get him carted off BEFORE the actual heist. :soap:

We were talking about police doing unlawful acts in a certain community, not state troopers. There is a phenomenon of corrupt police officials using violence and intimidation in the black communities in some parts of the country. Now I will ask the German national, if the police were violent to your communities and higher officials don't stop the problem what would you do?

OliverH

6 Dec 2006, 08:48 AM

We were talking about police doing unlawful acts in a certain community, not state troopers. There is a phenomenon of corrupt police officials using violence and intimidation in the black communities in some parts of the country. Now I will ask the German national, if the police were violent to your communities and higher officials don't stop the problem what would you do?

Well, the system here is quite different. But maybe parts of that difference can help understand why such things are relatively rare here -above and beyond the threat of historical comparisons looming around every corner in this country.
First of all, all police here are either state or federal troopers. While there are municipal administrative levels of the police, they're all state employees. There are municipal security officers, but they are at the moment not full police officers though in large cities, they're cooperating very closely with police, including joint beat patrol. There's no university, or public transit police here either. The only institution having its own police force is the federal parliament to ensure separation of power and independence of the legislature of the executive in issues of protection. Second, instead of requiring a college degree (the bachelor as a degree only exists for a few years here anyway), the police academies of the states here give a two-and-a-half to three-year education for the job -and that's just what's done for the lower levels. This includes, among many other things, a good deal of psychology to prevent panic shootings. Right after reunificiation, we had a lot of police officers which had gone through German Democratic Republic police schools, which, apparently, were lacking in that part. There was a case of two officers following a hint that a certain violent criminal was in a local hotel. When they knocked at the door, someone opened, saw two police officers and, immediately shut it. The two cops feared that this was in fact the criminal who was going to shoot them through the door and instead shot him -only that he was just a retiree scared shit by the presence of the police officers. Such incidents have been increasingly rare since police education has been reformed in eastern Germany (necessary to get rid of the political baggage anyway).

Aside from that, our P.O.s don't start out in patrol, but in ready force duty, where they're garrisoned for use in large-scale emergencies, mass events or large-scale police searches. During this initial year, with soccer matches and demonstrations, they'll already have been in plenty of volatile and highly complex situations.

So the basics are quite different. Make no mistake, we STILL have ghetto areas of high crime and we STILL have police excesses. But where these involve shootings, they are practically never "empty your clip" shootings with people riddled with bullets. There's also racism, and it has claimed lives. At the same time, we've had entire police stations who got a reputation for excessive violence against immigrants completely restaffed to the last man.

You talk of "using violence and intimidation". That would be a deliberate action. The incidents, however, speak rather of a reckless action. Riddling someone with 50 bullets is not a sign of being in control of the situation. It is rather one of total loss of control. This loss of control might be promoted by a deliberate culture of violence and intimidation, but it is still a loss of control.

geniusndisguise

6 Dec 2006, 12:39 PM

cafe

6 Dec 2006, 01:40 PM

http://www.ny1.com/ny1/Boroughs/queens.jsp
My husband mentioned this the other day. It's tragic and wrong. If those cops only get a slap on the wrist it will be a travesty.

immortalmack

6 Dec 2006, 02:16 PM

immortalmack

6 Dec 2006, 02:17 PM

Well, the system here is quite different. But maybe parts of that difference can help understand why such things are relatively rare here -above and beyond the threat of historical comparisons looming around every corner in this country.
First of all, all police here are either state or federal troopers. While there are municipal administrative levels of the police, they're all state employees. There are municipal security officers, but they are at the moment not full police officers though in large cities, they're cooperating very closely with police, including joint beat patrol. There's no university, or public transit police here either. The only institution having its own police force is the federal parliament to ensure separation of power and independence of the legislature of the executive in issues of protection. Second, instead of requiring a college degree (the bachelor as a degree only exists for a few years here anyway), the police academies of the states here give a two-and-a-half to three-year education for the job -and that's just what's done for the lower levels. This includes, among many other things, a good deal of psychology to prevent panic shootings. Right after reunificiation, we had a lot of police officers which had gone through German Democratic Republic police schools, which, apparently, were lacking in that part. There was a case of two officers following a hint that a certain violent criminal was in a local hotel. When they knocked at the door, someone opened, saw two police officers and, immediately shut it. The two cops feared that this was in fact the criminal who was going to shoot them through the door and instead shot him -only that he was just a retiree scared shit by the presence of the police officers. Such incidents have been increasingly rare since police education has been reformed in eastern Germany (necessary to get rid of the political baggage anyway).

Aside from that, our P.O.s don't start out in patrol, but in ready force duty, where they're garrisoned for use in large-scale emergencies, mass events or large-scale police searches. During this initial year, with soccer matches and demonstrations, they'll already have been in plenty of volatile and highly complex situations.

So the basics are quite different. Make no mistake, we STILL have ghetto areas of high crime and we STILL have police excesses. But where these involve shootings, they are practically never "empty your clip" shootings with people riddled with bullets. There's also racism, and it has claimed lives. At the same time, we've had entire police stations who got a reputation for excessive violence against immigrants completely restaffed to the last man.

You talk of "using violence and intimidation". That would be a deliberate action. The incidents, however, speak rather of a reckless action. Riddling someone with 50 bullets is not a sign of being in control of the situation. It is rather one of total loss of control. This loss of control might be promoted by a deliberate culture of violence and intimidation, but it is still a loss of control.

From what you've written attitudes and structure might actually be part of the problem.Also I think it also comes down to the victim and their resources to redress issues of law. Quite simply the whole neighborhood can get mad but if no one is going to adress it in a court of law, then the police will not be deterred from bad actions.

formerly known as

6 Dec 2006, 02:28 PM

Jennywocky

6 Dec 2006, 02:40 PM

Maybe next time there is an extremely depressed white male on this forum, we can test the theory?

If you can track me down, by all means, feel free.

(Just wait until I get my life insurance plan up and running.)

immortalmack

6 Dec 2006, 03:06 PM

If you can track me down, by all means, feel free.

(Just wait until I get my life insurance plan up and running.)

You never caught on to Montresor's did you?

OliverH

6 Dec 2006, 05:17 PM

From what you've written attitudes and structure might actually be part of the problem.Also I think it also comes down to the victim and their resources to redress issues of law. Quite simply the whole neighborhood can get mad but if no one is going to adress it in a court of law, then the police will not be deterred from bad actions.

Yes and no. As I said, we DID have a couple of cases of very questionable shootings. They were taken to court, but often struck down there. One cases happened here in the city I live in, but precisely because they don't involve empty-your-clip shootings, it's very hard to really say what happened. In this case, the victim was shot twice, once in the torso and once in the leg. Did the policeman feel threatened? Who can tell? If yes, was it justified? Probably not. Was the shooting racially motivated? Well, even if I think so, that's a long way from being able to provide evidence for it that will hold in a court of law.

What I find intriguing is that given the municipal police departments in the US, one would think that a city quarter, being a much more significant proportion of the relevant constituency, would have much more influence than here. However, quite probably, this is countered by administrative positions in the US being much more touched by city politics than over here. What I DO think is that it's not sensible to send rookies directly on patrol, especially not in hot zones. Even if they are paired with an old-time, what's he gonna do when push comes to shove? Throw himself into the path of the bullet? Not likely.

A long-time friend of mine is a US police officer and I firmly believe that there are many good people among them. At the same time, given the problems in some areas in the US and the prevalence of firearms, I think that the basic training for police officers in the US is sorely lacking. Precisely because of the chance that a criminal will have a firearms, situation awareness is extremely important. And shooting a person because you thought he had a weapon when in fact, he had none, is the supreme blunder in situation awareness.

I think part of the problem is precisely in the attitude towards firearms. Given their prevalence in the US, it's tempting to consider them just one tool out of many. I'd like to think, though I might be naive, that officers here are quite aware that once they pull the trigger, they admit they're not in control of the situation anymore and using the crowbar way to get it back.

Hustler

7 Dec 2006, 01:27 AM

I consider cops the enemy. Just thought I'd share.

stopharian

7 Dec 2006, 02:03 AM

I consider cops the enemy. Just thought I'd share.

I think this might be a universal INTP characteristic.

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 03:40 PM

What's the difference between a white person generalizing that black men are bad because that's what they see on the news and in the streets or a black person generalizing that cops are bad because thats what they see on the news and in the streets? We all know that neither case is completely true. I realize it's your experience that defines your perspective, it's what makes you passionate about this issue. It's also the basis for the completely normal human tendency to discriminate. It's normal, but not acceptable - we should make an effort not to do so.

False comparison... most white people can go their entire lives without ever knowing a black person, or only interacting with them on a hi bye, see you at work basis. And what they see in the streets is just that, an outside experience that is based on their cultural leanings...

Black folks opinions of the cops are based on numerous up close and personal interactions, not what we see on the news, not what we think based on our cultural leanings...

Do remember 1 out of every 5 black males has been to jail:reading:

booyalab

7 Dec 2006, 03:45 PM

kendo, you have a better chance of being assaulted by someone who isn't a cop than someone who is.

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 03:46 PM

No... YOU have a better chance of being assaulted by someone who isn't a cop than is...

booyalab

7 Dec 2006, 03:51 PM

No... YOU have a better chance of being assaulted by someone who isn't a cop than is...

wtf is wrong with you? do you have anything else in your library besides old Black Panther pamphlets?

Dr. Haight

7 Dec 2006, 03:54 PM

:popcorn:

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 03:54 PM

booyalab

7 Dec 2006, 03:54 PM

shit, I probably have a better chance of being raped than you have of being assaulted by a cop....and yet I'm not on a perpetual tirade against males.

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 03:55 PM

The difference being, the chances of YOU being shot at while unarmed and minding your own business is a big fat 0

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 03:58 PM

And furthermore, if a male rapes you, you can turn to the justice system for recourse. If I get shot, or murdered, or assaulted, or harassed, or just plan picked up for a bullshit charge, I can turn to who?

<_<

booyalab

7 Dec 2006, 03:58 PM

You're speaking to me about my experience at the moment, so the question would be wtf is wrong with you... I can count on one hand the number of times I've been so much as looked at the wrong way by a non police officer, on the other hand, I can give you a tons of stories about the cops fucking with me...

yeah i can give a ton of stories about the cops fucking with every white man I've ever known. I could probably give you a few stories about problems that even I've had with cops.

booyalab

7 Dec 2006, 03:59 PM

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 04:01 PM

yeah i can give a ton of stories about the cops fucking with every white man I've ever known. I could probably give you a few stories about problems that even I've had with cops.

The number of unarmed white males murdered by police in the last two decades versus the number of unarmed black males murdered by the police in the last two decades?

Or how about the number of black males getting the shit kicked out of them ON TAPE, with the end result being a slap on the wrist for the offending officers versus the number white males getting the shit kicked out of them on tape...<_<

Dr. Haight

7 Dec 2006, 04:01 PM

http://www.intpcentral.com/uploads/b9cf1f613d5d930398163abf36d2dd68rabbit2.jpg

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 04:03 PM

it must be awesome to live your life in a constant state of irrational fear.

So state your facts if I'm so irrational... How many unarmed white woman have been shot by the cops in the past two decades? How about we expand it to the past century... Please enlighten me<_<

geniusndisguise

7 Dec 2006, 04:05 PM

False comparison... most white people can go their entire lives without ever knowing a black person, or only interacting with them on a hi bye, see you at work basis. And what they see in the streets is just that, an outside experience that is based on their cultural leanings...

Black folks opinions of the cops are based on numerous up close and personal interactions, not what we see on the news, not what we think based on our cultural leanings...

Do remember 1 out of every 5 black males has been to jail:reading:

All opinions are based on personal, subjective perspective and cultural leanings are a part of that.

I was listening to a conversation between two coworkers yesterday where a girl said "Men cannot be trusted". I figured she realized it was a gross generalization and was probably trying to make a point about something, but I wasn't part of the conversation. Then I heard her say "Women can be trusted, just men can't". That's when I jumped in, asking if she was joking. She said "Do YOU trust men?" She was serious. I told her it has nothing to do with males or females, etc. etc. I'm sure this opinion she has about men came from her own experiences with them throughout her life, as well as what she's heard from others and maybe what she was taught growing up. It's still all based on personal, subjective perspective. Her personality affects what she sees as well as how she interprets it.

The point is not to generalize so easily. It leads to discrimination, misunderstanding, hate and eventually violence. It furthers the cycle.

booyalab

7 Dec 2006, 04:06 PM

http://www.city-journal.org/html/eon2006-12-04hm.html

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 04:09 PM

http://www.city-journal.org/html/eon2006-12-04hm.html

I see one mans opinion and no mention of any unarmed white women ever being shot...
Furthermore, witnesses on the scene say the cops NEVER identified themselves

Furthermore, as I already detailed IF the cops story were true, police procedure in such an instance is not to play cowboy, but to radio in the possible crime to their field units, so... <_<

P.S. No gun was ever found

Ivy

7 Dec 2006, 04:10 PM

So state your facts if I'm so irrational... How many unarmed white woman have being shot by the cops in the past two decades? How about we expand it to the past century... Please enlighten me<_<

How many police officers have shot unarmed black men in the past two decades? The past century? Is it a high enough percentage of the whole to justify a broad-brush "fuck the police" policy?

I don't deny the injustice of the system that lets cops off the hook for killing unarmed black men (Amadou Diallo was shot while I lived in NYC and it was obviously a case of the justice system gone crazy). I also don't deny the presence of a fair number of bad apples in the cop barrell. But I'm not willing to go along with extrapolating the actions of those bad apples onto the whole population of police officers. Especially when it's extrapolating the actions of a few black men onto the whole population that causes the bigotry that starts this cycle.

FranG

7 Dec 2006, 04:10 PM

I'm late to this thread; but it seems like I should be here. Too lazy to read through 12 pages of stuff though. Can someone give me a quick summary?

Dr. Haight

7 Dec 2006, 04:14 PM

Can someone give me a quick summary?

Yes.

booya believes in the American Justice System. And kendo... well, not so much.

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 04:16 PM

How many police officers have shot unarmed black men in the past two decades? The past century? Is it a high enough percentage of the whole to justify a broad-brush "fuck the police" policy?

I don't deny the injustice of the system that lets cops off the hook for killing unarmed black men (Amadou Diallo was shot while I lived in NYC and it was obviously a case of the justice system gone crazy). I also don't deny the presence of a fair number of bad apples in the cop barrell. But I'm not willing to go along with extrapolating the actions of those bad apples onto the whole population of police officers. Especially when it's extrapolating the actions of a few black men onto the whole population that causes the bigotry that starts this cycle.

Sounds good, but the differences in how the police act in white communities versus how they act in blacks is startling to me everytime I venture out of the hood... sure they don't always shoot first, sometimes, they just kick the shit out of us, and for that we should be grateful. Sure they don't always kick the shit out of us, sometimes, they just send us to jail (versus prison) on a bull shit charge and I lose a night of my life sitting in a cell, just to be sent on my way... Sure they don't always send me to jail for bullshit, sometimes they just stop me while I'm walking (scaring the shit out of me in the process) to ask me where I'm going, why I'm going, and other meaningless fucking questions seeing as I'm minding my own fucking business, in nyc it's virtually a crime to go to the store and forget your wallet (which has your ID which you MUST have at all times)...

What you're saying to me is like telling an abused woman that he don't always kick the shit out of you, mostly he just treats you shitty so...

booyalab

7 Dec 2006, 04:17 PM

I see one mans opinion and no mention of any unarmed white women ever being shot...
Furthermore, witnesses on the scene say the cops NEVER identified themselves

Furthermore, as I already detailed IF the cops story were true, police procedure in such an instance is not to play cowboy, but to radio in the possible crime to their field units, so... <_<

P.S. No gun was ever found

did you read the damn article? 1. it was written by a woman. 2. unarmed white women don't usually hang out with thugs in seedy locations unless they're strippers...and strippers and thugs aren't usually confused for each other. 3. they didn't identify themselves because they were undercover.

edit:
When one of the undercovers identified himself as an officer, the car holding the party twice tried to run him down. The officer started firing while yelling to the car’s occupants: “Let me see your hands.” His colleagues, believing they were under attack, fired as well, eventually shooting off 50 rounds and killing the driver, Sean Bell. No gun was found in the car, but witnesses and video footage confirm that a fourth man in the party fled the scene once the altercation began. Bell and the other men with him all had been arrested for illegal possession of guns in the past; one of Bell’s companions that night, Joseph Guzman, had spent considerable time in prison, including for an armed robbery in which he shot at his victim.

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 04:19 PM

did you read the damn article? 1. it was written by a woman. 2. unarmed white women don't usually hang out with thugs in seedy locations unless they're strippers...and strippers and thugs aren't usually confused. 3. they didn't identify themselves because they were undercover.

AND UNDERCOVER COPS AREN'T SUPPOSED TO ENGAGE IN SUCH ACTIVITY, POLICE PROCEDURE IS TO RADIO IN THE CRIME... IF YOU SAW A GUY POINTING A GUN AT YOU AND YOU DIDN"T KNOW HE WAS A COP WOULD YOU NOT TRY TO FLEE?:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

MENTIONING PAST INSTANCES THAT THE COPS WERE UNAWARE OF AT THE TIME OF THE SHOOTING MEANS WHAT EXACTLY???

Ivy

7 Dec 2006, 04:20 PM

Sounds good, but the differences in how the police act in white communities versus how they act in blacks is startling to me everytime I venture out of the hood... sure they don't always shoot first, sometimes, they just kick the shit out of us, and for that we should be grateful. Sure they don't always kick the shit out of us, sometimes, they just send us to jail (versus prison) on a bull shit charge and I lose a night of my life sitting in a cell, just to be sent on my way... Sure they don't always send me to jail for bullshit, sometimes the just stop me while I'm walking (scaring the shit out of me in the process) to ask me where I'm going, why I'm going, and other meaningless fucking questions seeing as I'm minding my own fucking business...

What you're saying to me is like telling an abused woman that he don't always kick the shit out of you, mostly he just treats you shitty so...

No, it's not at all like that, because an abusive husband is ONE person. There are millions of police officers, and they aren't a hive mind. I don't believe for one second that they are all just waiting for an opportunity to kick the shit out of a black man. A greater proportion than the general population? Sure, I'll go there-- they chose to pursue a position of power for some reason, and I'm sure they're not all there to protect and serve. But all of them? Fuck no. That, to me, is almost as bad as saying all black men are just waiting to steal my purse.

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 04:23 PM

No, it's not at all like that, because an abusive husband is ONE person. There are millions of police officers, and they aren't a hive mind. I don't believe for one second that they are all just waiting for an opportunity to kick the shit out of a black man. A greater proportion than the general population? Sure, I'll go there-- they chose to pursue a position of power for some reason, and I'm sure they're not all there to protect and serve. But all of them? Fuck no. That, to me, is almost as bad as saying all black men are just waiting to steal my purse.

All I could say is trade you a day in my life... Ofcourse not every single cop is a prick I have at least one story where a cop has helped a brother out... but if most cops I encounter are pricks, or let me rephrase if most cops policing my community are pricks, I'm not much concerned about the fine upstanding cops circling your block every two seconds, what's that you say? The cops don't cirlce your block every two seconds...

cafe

7 Dec 2006, 04:27 PM

I've been convinced there was a problem since a few years ago in my community college class. The instructor was late for class one day because he got pulled over on the way into town.

The spot was a speed trap. I drove through it every day, usually remembering to slow down, but not always. My instructor was a 1/2 Native American man with a braid. His brother is a cop, but he was still careful and cautious of cops because they think he looks "disreputable."

But the young black men in my class, they asked him about getting his car searched. They assumed it was normal procedure for traffic stops. They had no idea that it was not, let alone that they had a legal right to refuse.

I've only been pulled over three or four times. I've never gotten a ticket and the officer certainly never asked to search my vehicle, even when I was driving a beat up mini-van with duct tape and plastic where a couple of the windows should have been. I'm not complaining about my treatment, mind you, but something is definitely wrong with this picture.

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 04:27 PM

did you read the damn article? 1. it was written by a woman. 2. unarmed white women don't usually hang out with thugs in seedy locations unless they're strippers...and strippers and thugs aren't usually confused for each other. 3. they didn't identify themselves because they were undercover.

edit:

Oh, yeah a black man at a strip club celebrating his impending marriage should always be confused with a thug... can't forget that...

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 04:28 PM

Ivy

7 Dec 2006, 04:29 PM

All I could say is trade you a day in my life... Ofcourse not every single cop is a prick I have at least one story where a cop has helped a brother out... but if most cops I encounter are pricks, or let me rephrase if most cops policing my community are pricks, I'm not much concerned about the fine upstanding cops circling your block every two seconds, what's that you say? The cops don't cirlce your block every two seconds...

Well, I guess there's no way I can really engage in a debate with you on this since there's no way for me to experience a day in your life. You've got the trump card.

In any case, there are cops out here keeping tabs on the (white) teen hoodlums in my neighborhood probably every day, or every other. In my suburban lower-middle-class neighborhood, that's a lot.

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 04:30 PM

it must be awesome to live your life in a constant state of irrational fear.

Still waiting for those unarmed white women being gunned down, can you give me one? Just one instance? Love how you can be dismissive of things you never have and never will have to consider <_<

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 04:31 PM

Well, I guess there's no way I can really engage in a debate with you on this since there's no way for me to experience a day in your life. You've got the trump card.

In any case, there are cops out here keeping tabs on the (white) teen hoodlums in my neighborhood probably every day, or every other. In my suburban lower-middle-class neighborhood, that's a lot.

You ever have a cop car pull up on you while you were on your way home, have the cops flashing lights in your face the whole time, and hoping while you reached for your wallet they didn't confuse it for reaching for a gun? Just once maybe?:huh:

Ivy

7 Dec 2006, 04:34 PM

But the young black men in my class, they asked him about getting his car searched. They assumed it was normal procedure for traffic stops. They had no idea that it was not, let alone that they had a legal right to refuse.

This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NmC5wHfCdM) is pretty great tutorial on your constitutional rights regarding search & seizure, and how to assert them effectively.

I definitely agree that there is a problem, that it is institutional and widespread. I still bristle at what I consider to be dangerous generalizations, from all factions.

Ivy

7 Dec 2006, 04:35 PM

You ever have a cop car pull up on you while you were on your way home, have the cops flashing lights in your face the whole time, and hoping while you reached for your wallet they didn't confuse it for reaching for a gun? Just once maybe?:huh:

No. Like I said, you hold the trump card here.

Edit: I'll bet the teenage hoodlums in my neighborhood have.

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 04:39 PM

No. Like I said, you hold the trump card here.

Edit: I'll bet the teenage hoodlums in my neighborhood have.

So the fact that me, minding my own business can be treated like the cats in your neighborhood who are known to be doing shit they have no business doing, should be comforting to me?

Ivy

7 Dec 2006, 04:42 PM

So the fact that me, minding my own business can be treated like the cats in your neighborhood who are known to be doing shit they have no business doing, should be comforting to me?

Uh, no. Have you been reading my posts?

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 04:43 PM

And what should I make of the fact that the last white male to be gunned down in the city that I know of was wielding at least a hammer? (the fact that they shot him is still absurd to me, come on a fucking hammer versus 5 gun toting, baton wielding, mace having, vest wearing, and who knows what else is in those untility belt having cops?)

PonderBee

7 Dec 2006, 04:45 PM

It is my sincerist wish to see police officers murder an unarmed white male, just to prove race and class have nothing to do with it, or at least provide the appearance that it doesn't...

Well here goes ... while this is not a recent incident perhaps it will quench your thirst.

My maternal grandfather, an Irish immigrant to the U.S.A. via England, was outside of his home arguing loudly with his third eldest son. Police officers respond and break up the verbal argument by proceeding to pummel both my grandfather and uncle. The eldest son (19 years old) intervenes and attempts to shield his father from the cops. No, he did not have a firearm. Reportedly he did not swing at any of the officers (but if he did I think that it would be an understandable offense). I don't have an exact figure but there were more than 5 bullets in Uncle Ted when he died.

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 04:45 PM

Uh, no. Have you been reading my posts?

I'm just making my point here, what should I think about your, or booya, or anyone else opinions about what I should think, or how I should feel, when yall will never, ever, ever, ever have to go through it, and everybody I know and call a friend has and will? How should I feel about so called experts telling me that this is all a big deal for nothing and that the cops have my best interests at heart when my experiences tell me different?

immortalmack

7 Dec 2006, 04:47 PM

The one word we all are dancing around is RACISM. Simple as that.I just got put on felony probation for refusing a search of my car.You know what they call it: assaulting a police officer /resisting arrest/obstruction of justice.I was coming home from work in the city i work in driving my wifes car which is ragedy as hell. they said it couldve been stolen. the crazy part is my PO says he used to live in the neighborhood I got pulled over in. He said he has seen the racial profiling and it's sad.
I don't want to escalate the conversation so I'll say this.

KENDOIWAN

They will never understand you and even if they did they're not going to do anything to change it save your breath man, Start up another thread and kill this one.

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 04:47 PM

Well here goes ... while this is not a recent incident perhaps it will quench your thirst.

My maternal grandfather, an Irish immigrant to the U.S.A. via England, was outside of his home arguing loudly with his third eldest son. Police officers respond and break up the verbal argument by proceeding to pummel both my grandfather and uncle. The eldest son (19 years old) intervenes and attempts to shield his father from the cops. No, he did not have a firearm. Reportedly he did not swing at any of the officers (but if he did I think that it would be an understandable offense). I don't have an exact figure but there were more than 5 bullets in Uncle Ted when he died.

Irish immigrants were in the same boat as blacks at the time... you ever read a discription of an irish, or italian, or any sort of immigrant by a "native" at the time? You'd think they were talking about a black man today without a doubt...

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 04:49 PM

The one word we all are dancing around is RACISM. Simple as that.I just got put on felony probation for refusing a search of my car.You know what they call it: assaulting a polce officer /resisting arrest/obstruction of justice.I was coming home from work.
I don't want to escalate the conversation so I'll say this.

KENDOIWAN

They will never understand you and even if they did they're not going to do anything to change it save your breath man, Start up another thread and kill this one.

:theclap: :theclap: :theclap: An opinon I'm inclined to agree with...

PonderBee

7 Dec 2006, 04:50 PM

Irish immigrants were in the same boat as blacks at the time... you ever read a discription of an irish, or italian, or any sort of immigrant by a "native" at the time? You'd think they were talking about a black man today without a doubt...

Exactly.

nottaprettygal

7 Dec 2006, 04:51 PM

So the fact that me, minding my own business can be treated like the cats in your neighborhood who are known to be doing shit they have no business doing, should be comforting to me?

Kendo, sheesh. EnglshIvy is like the last person you should be trying to pick a fight with. She's sympathetic. She gets it.

You'll always be able to say that we can't understand because we're not black males, and there is a great deal of truth in that. We cannot understand fully what you go through. That doesn't mean that we have not or cannot educate ourselves.

I would hate for you to say that my opinion is not valid just because I was born a white female. I've spent a reasonable amount of time studying black movements and have even worked towards helping free political prisoners. I say that, not because I think I deserve some sort of medal, but because my color shouldn't invalidate my educated opinion.

Meh...enough of that.

Hustler

7 Dec 2006, 04:51 PM

So the fact that me, minding my own business can be treated like the cats in your neighborhood who are known to be doing shit they have no business doing, should be comforting to me?
What are you going to do about it, man? Just look at what happened this year in Pennsylvania:

Congressional resolutions
On May 19, 2006, Michael Fitzpatrick (R-PA) introduced a concurrent resolution designated House Resolution 407, and on June 15, 2006, Richard Santorum (R-PA) introduced the identical Senate Resolution 102, both of which were referred to their respective committees[4]. Both resolutions consist of three proposals, that Congress:

condemn the murder of Philadelphia Police Officer Danny Faulkner
urge the city of St. Denis to change the name of Rue Mumia Abu-Jamal, and, if they do not, urge the French government to take action against the city of St. Denis to change the name
commend police officers all over the world for their commitment to public service and public safety

How long before these guys who unloaded on that car are getting official commendations?

FranG

7 Dec 2006, 04:52 PM

You ever have a cop car pull up on you while you were on your way home, have the cops flashing lights in your face the whole time, and hoping while you reached for your wallet they didn't confuse it for reaching for a gun? Just once maybe?:huh:

You forgot to add with their guns drawn on you. I've had that happen to me a few times in the hood. They'll have the one officer asking for your stuff, and his partner will be on the police car (slightly away from the action) with his pistol drawn on us.

KENDOIWAN

They will never understand you and even if they did they're not going to do anything to change it save your breath man, Start up another thread and kill this one.

Basically. You should dead the explanations Kendoiwan, because experience is the best teacher, they won't get it unless they go through what u go through.

Ivy

7 Dec 2006, 04:54 PM

immortalmack

7 Dec 2006, 04:56 PM

Kendo, sheesh. EnglshIvy is like the last person you should be trying to pick a fight with. She's sympathetic. She gets it.

You'll always be able to say that we can't understand because we're not black males, and there is a great deal of truth in that. We cannot understand fully what you go through. That doesn't mean that we have not or cannot educate ourselves.

I would hate for you to say that my opinion is not valid just because I was born a white female. I've spent a reasonable amount of time studying black movements and have even worked towards helping free political prisoners. I say that, not because I think I deserve some sort of medal, but because my color shouldn't invalidate my educated opinion.

Meh...enough of that.

No I'm saying this could go on for days like it has been. starve the fire of oxygen.I like the way you think.

Rajah

7 Dec 2006, 05:03 PM

Christ.

I don't think anyone who's analyzed the American justice system for five minutes would disagree that black males consistently get the short end of the stick. It sucks in fifty-three different ways. And, yes, that is a gross understatement.

But it's rubbing me the wrong way that when people on this thread have agreed that things are flawed beyond the telling of it, agreed that they cannot possibly understand the depth of your experience because they will never personally have to go through it, you are damning them. I don't get why you're directing such belligerence at people who are, at least, trying to grasp what you have to go through. At best, it's counterproductive.

Edit - Just to be clear, that's all I have to say. I'll back out of this thread now.

Re-edit - Obviously, I lied.

booyalab

7 Dec 2006, 05:05 PM

AND UNDERCOVER COPS AREN'T SUPPOSED TO ENGAGE IN SUCH ACTIVITY, POLICE PROCEDURE IS TO RADIO IN THE CRIME... IF YOU SAW A GUY POINTING A GUN AT YOU AND YOU DIDN"T KNOW HE WAS A COP WOULD YOU NOT TRY TO FLEE?:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

MENTIONING PAST INSTANCES THAT THE COPS WERE UNAWARE OF AT THE TIME OF THE SHOOTING MEANS WHAT EXACTLY???

Since when is "trying to run him down" the same as "trying to flee". They were trying to drive over the officer with the car. If I had a gun, I'd sure as hell shoot it at someone who was doing that to me.

booyalab

7 Dec 2006, 05:07 PM

here's another quote from the article
The police have a disproportionate number of interactions with blacks because blacks are committing a disproportionate number of crimes. That fact comes from the testimony of the victims of those crimes, themselves largely black, not from the police. In New York City, blacks committed 62 percent of all murders, rapes, robberies, and assaults from 1998 to 2000, according to victim and witness identification, even though they make up only 25 percent of the city’s population. Whites committed 8 percent of those crimes over that period, though they are 28 percent of New York residents.

sbw

7 Dec 2006, 05:13 PM

Since when is "trying to run him down" the same as "trying to flee". They were trying to drive over the officer with the car. If I had a gun, I'd sure as hell shoot it at someone who was doing that to me.

yea--just ask stephen jackson :lol:

Scott

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 05:27 PM

No I'm saying this could go on for days like it has been. starve the fire of oxygen.I like the way you think.

:think: Thought about it... Nah dog, silence is the stat quo, if I can't speak to whats relevant to me then what can I speak to? Besides that, I'm a fighter:saiyan:

As to Rajah, Evy, and Notapretty... I was speaking to the "Not all cops are bad you shouldn't generalize" sentiment... If in general, they give me grief, then in general I say fuck em... Except for Officer Lyons who called my job and told them I was a witness to a crime, instead of I was arrested on my lunch break for some bullshit... Evy is cool in my book without a doubt...

As to Booya, believe it or not, the link between poverty and crime is well documented, so the fact that blacks disproportionately commit the crimes in NYC should be stated right next to the fact the 50% of black males between the ages of 20 and 55 are unemployed...

Hows that for disproportions...

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 05:28 PM

yea--just ask stephen jackson :lol:

Scott

Dude was standing in front of your car with a gun drawn do you hit the break or the gas?:huh:

cafe

7 Dec 2006, 05:32 PM

Dude was standing in front of your car with a gun drawn do you hit the break or the gas?:huh:
If I don't see a uniform or a badge I'm hitting the gas, especially if my kids are in the car. Too many crazies out there. I'd try to swerve if I could, though.

FranG

7 Dec 2006, 05:33 PM

As to Booya, believe it or not, the link between poverty and crime is well documented, so the fact that blacks disproportionately commit the crimes in NYC should be stated right next to the fact the 50% of black males between the ages of 20 and 55 are unemployed...

Hows that for disproportions...

Good point yo. Cause the poor white trash sometimes act worse than the stereotypical urban blacks. It's cause they don't have nothing.

PonderBee

7 Dec 2006, 05:38 PM

Good point yo. Cause the poor white trash sometimes act worse than the stereotypical urban blacks. It's cause they don't have nothing.
?

FranG

7 Dec 2006, 06:04 PM

^^^^
Point is the repugnant behavior is economic related, not race related.

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 06:06 PM

http://villagevoice.com/news/0649,gardiner,75216,6.html

PonderBee

7 Dec 2006, 06:07 PM

Good point yo. Cause the poor white trash sometimes act worse than the stereotypical urban blacks. It's cause they don't have nothing.

Well, my point was to highlight the glaring disparity in your descriptions above. I suppose you did that to raise awareness tho.

Dunearhp

7 Dec 2006, 06:17 PM

So state your facts if I'm so irrational... How many unarmed white woman have been shot by the cops in the past two decades? How about we expand it to the past century... Please enlighten me<_<

Best I can find is this
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=16768
and a girl who got shot in the eye with a rubber bullet at a football riot.
http://jonesreport.com/articles/170806_rubber_bullets.html

My question is why are you bringing up unarmed white women? The valid comparison is unarmed white men.

"In total, it is believed 50 bullets were fired, Kelly said. It was the first time any of the officers, who all carried 9 mm handguns, had been involved in a shooting, Kelly said."

Something about this situation was enough to scare 5 undercover cops, who had never been in a fire fight, to the point where they would empty two clips at a car (which, as it has been pointed out, is against police regulations).

I am interested, have you ever been harassed by an undercover cop?

I will not deny that you have a right to be angry. Things being as you say they are can only be as a result of a significant level of institutionalised racism.

However, I will not agree with a "fuck the cops" mentality.
Partly because it paints the entire force as the enemy when at least some of them must be angered by the same injustice that angers you.
Mostly because it serves no useful purpose, and is actually likely to make matters worse.

Fear of the police is as much a cause of this problem as it is a symptom. Things will not get better unless a bridge of trust can be built between the community and the police. An unlikely proposition, I know.

FranG

7 Dec 2006, 06:34 PM

Well, my point was to highlight the glaring disparity in your descriptions above. I suppose you did that to raise awareness tho.

Yeah for added emphasis

PonderBee

7 Dec 2006, 06:37 PM

Yeah for added emphasis

yeah

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 06:44 PM

Best I can find is this
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=16768
and a girl who got shot in the eye with a rubber bullet at a football riot.
http://jonesreport.com/articles/170806_rubber_bullets.html

My question is why are you bringing up unarmed white women? The valid comparison is unarmed white men.

"In total, it is believed 50 bullets were fired, Kelly said. It was the first time any of the officers, who all carried 9 mm handguns, had been involved in a shooting, Kelly said."

Something about this situation was enough to scare 5 undercover cops, who had never been in a fire fight, to the point where they would empty two clips at a car (which, as it has been pointed out, is against police regulations).

I am interested, have you ever been harassed by an undercover cop?

I will not deny that you have a right to be angry. Things being as you say they are can only be as a result of a significant level of institutionalised racism.

However, I will not agree with a "fuck the cops" mentality.
Partly because it paints the entire force as the enemy when at least some of them must be angered by the same injustice that angers you.
Mostly because it serves no useful purpose, and is actually likely to make matters worse.

Fear of the police is as much a cause of this problem as it is a symptom. Things will not get better unless a bridge of trust can be built between the community and the police. An unlikely proposition, I know.

Shout outs to the 100 black men in law enforcement... That's how I know what police procedure is, and how I know those cops were playing cowboy...

Edit: Just finished reading the link... funny how a white woman gets shot with rubberbullets and it's horrible police brutality, while black man shot with real bullets demands cool heads...

I said white woman and not white men, because booya will never have to worry about being shot by a cop, yet has the nerve to pooh-pooh my legitimate concern with being shot, assaulted, or harrassed, by the cops

Google Monster

7 Dec 2006, 06:52 PM

Anyone elso crack up at the rabbit Dr. Haight posted?

PenguinHunter

7 Dec 2006, 06:53 PM

I'm just making my point here, what should I think about your, or booya, or anyone else opinions about what I should think, or how I should feel, when yall will never, ever, ever, ever have to go through it, and everybody I know and call a friend has and will? How should I feel about so called experts telling me that this is all a big deal for nothing and that the cops have my best interests at heart when my experiences tell me different?

Basically. You should dead the explanations Kendoiwan, because experience is the best teacher, they won't get it unless they go through what u go through.

But it's rubbing me the wrong way that when people on this thread have agreed that things are flawed beyond the telling of it, agreed that they cannot possibly understand the depth of your experience because they will never personally have to go through it, you are damning them. I don't get why you're directing such belligerence at people who are, at least, trying to grasp what you have to go through. At best, it's counterproductive.

To add to Rajah's post:

kendoiwan,

There is a problem of direction here. I'll lay it out simply. What is the purpose of this thread?

As I see it:

Premise 1: People (including [perhaps especially] the white people) on this forum should care about the incident cited in your original post.

Premise 2: Because the white people on this forum have not experienced what you have experienced, they cannot understand the issues at hand.

These don't reconcile with each other. Which is it? My actual opinions on the issue aside, should I care about this incident and discuss it with you, or should I accept that I cannot understand (and therefore not care either?) and ignore the discussion? If the latter, why did you even bother posting it if you don't believe the majority of the forum deserves to be allowed to input? Or perhaps this was intended as just a discussion for the few black members of the forum who feel they can relate (would have been preferable if this was stated earlier and since it wasn't this is probably unlikely). Or perhaps this is just a personal thread, in which case let's move it to either rants and raves or blogs and personal threads to avoid further confusion.

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 06:59 PM

See that's what I mean... If you have an opinion on what happened that's one thing... but to tell me what I should feel or think about it is another matter all together... If it doesn't bother you that the police murdered an unarmed man, then just say it doesn't, don't rationalize it by saying, since I don't think you can ever relate then you shouldn't have to care... it's just bullshit...

Google Monster

7 Dec 2006, 07:03 PM

Rajah

7 Dec 2006, 07:09 PM

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 07:12 PM

To add to Rajah's post:

kendoiwan,

There is a problem of direction here. I'll lay it out simply. What is the purpose of this thread?

As I see it: ...

These don't reconcile with each other. Which is it? My actual opinions on the issue aside, should I care about this incident and discuss it with you, or should I accept that I cannot understand (and therefore not care either?) and ignore the discussion? .

He did

Rajah

7 Dec 2006, 07:16 PM

He didHe never told you what to think or feel about the matter. He pointed out that there's a disconnect between what it appeared you were seeking in your OP and your responses in the thread. I think you'll find his point valid if you read through the thread.

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 07:20 PM

using what I think or feel as a basis for what he should think or feel

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 07:30 PM

He never told you what to think or feel about the matter. He pointed out that there's a disconnect between what it appeared you were seeking in your OP and your responses in the thread. I think you'll find his point valid if you read through the thread.

And after re-reading the thread the only major points of contention I see is with my "fuck the police" alla NWA and Booya telling me that this is just much ado about nothing, so it would seem that you find it valid based on your perception of my responses and your perception of what I seek with the OP...

Funny how none of the black respondants are taking any issue with anything I'm saying beside the fact that they think I'm wasting my time saying because it falls on deaf ears...

Hustler

7 Dec 2006, 07:33 PM

I said white woman and not white men, because booya will never have to worry about being shot by a cop, yet has the nerve to pooh-pooh my legitimate concern with being shot, assaulted, or harrassed, by the cops

Yeah, but you might as well have said white men, because it isn't really any different. When I got arrested, do you think the cops drew their guns and pointed them at me? No, they didn't. They kept them in their holsters. One of the cops had his hand on his gun, but he kept it in the holster. I attribute this to me being white. It didn't matter that, as far as white guys go, I am among the first you'd be inclined to draw a weapon and point at when arresting (going by looks and not assuming some Cops type scenario where a meth-head is running around half-naked, going crazy) or that I actually had warrants and was traveling with people who had criminal records.

From what I've read in this thread and from what I know about the world in general, if I were black, that arrest would have gone down differently. As it was, the cops were extraordinarily careful to go by the book. Almost comically so. Perhaps a fear of reprisal through abuse of the legal system (something many a white guy who can afford a good attorney and find a sympathetic jury can pull off) motivated them to be as cautious as possible or maybe they were just giving me their SJ due diligence, but it would be a different kind of fear which would have had their guns drawn when arresting me were I black.

I realize this argument plays to stereotypes and circumstance, but when multiple law-abiding black men are routinely victims of the abuse of authority or overreaching at the hands of the police, and I am an example of a law-bre...err, bending white guy and I don't get so much as a gun drawn and pointed at me in my entire history with the cops, it does serve to crystallize the intuitive theory. I'm sure my example is borne out in the statistics of police violence and abuse of authority toward citizens as well.

Rajah

7 Dec 2006, 07:41 PM

And after re-reading the thread the only major points of contention I see is with my "fuck the police" alla NWA and Booya telling me that this is just much ado about nothing, so it would seem that you find it valid based on your perception of my responses and your perception of what I seek with the OP...

Funny how none of the black respondants are taking any issue with anything I'm saying beside the fact that they think I'm wasting my time saying because it falls on deaf ears...My one point of contention (which you've omitted) is that you have been taking issue with the people who are trying to support you -- People agree that the system is flawed, and agree that they can't fully understand your experiences because they aren't, in fact, you. I've only really bristled at one statement you've made:

It is my sincerist wish to see police officers murder an unarmed white male

because I find it personally repellant; but, I did not state this in the thread until now. I have not at all taken issue with your fuck-the-police stance. I live in Texas, kendoiwan, and I've grown to assume that police are power-hungry fuckups.

My point of contention was not at all an issue of race, but of the impression I (and apparently others) have that you, simply, are not listening.

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 07:51 PM

My one point of contention (which you've omitted) is that you have been taking issue with the people who are trying to support you -- People agree that the system is flawed, and agree that they can't fully understand your experiences because they aren't, in fact, you. I've only really bristled at one statement you've made:

because I find it personally repellant; but, I did not state this in the thread until now. I have not at all taken issue with your fuck-the-police stance. I live in Texas, kendoiwan, and I've grown to assume that police are power-hungry fuckups.

My point of contention was not at all an issue of race, but of the impression I (and apparently others) have that you, simply, are not listening.

And that's your perception... I've taken no issue with my "supporters" if you will... When I conflicted with Ivy it was when she took issue with my fuck the police stance... Her argument being that I'm making a gross generalization similar to "all men are dogs"... and my point to her was that while it is a gross generalization, I and my peers a liable to feel that way. If the cops want us to stop saying fuck em, then they need to address why we say fuck em, don't tell us not to say fuck em because it's not helping, them shooting, beating, harassing us isn't helping much either...

And I made that statement you cited because that's how I feel about it... Everytime I hear about an unarmed man being shot it's a dude who looks like me. How do you expect me to go to my peers and tell them it's not all cops when all of our interactions with them are negative, and we can't see anyone else receiving the same treatment we get?

"Martin is dead, Malcom is gone, Marvin already ask what's going on, Sam Cooke told us change gon' come it's been a long time coming, we still looking for some..."

Rajah

7 Dec 2006, 07:58 PM

And I made that statement you cited because that's how I feel about it... Everytime I hear about an unarmed man being shot it's a dude who looks like me. How do you expect me to go to my peers and tell them it's not all cops when all of our interactions with them are negative, and we can't see anyone else receiving the same treatment we get?I don't expect it.

Edit - Though as a pretty non-violent person, I'd find it hard to advocate a position that anyone be injured.

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 08:07 PM

I don't expect it.

Edit - Though as a pretty non-violent person, I'd find it hard to advocate a position that anyone be injured.

I'm not advocating anything... Just expressing my frustration... Hence, just once could it not be my neighbor? Just once could I not have to hear my would be wife telling me her friend dated the guy at one point and how he's been with his s'posed to be wife since HS... Just once could I not have my friends telling me how I know the kids family? Just once could it be someone of another race and I have to decide whether or not I care?

Rajah

7 Dec 2006, 08:12 PM

I'm not advocating anything... Kendo, you said it's your sincerest wish that a white person get shot.

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 08:14 PM

And I just elaborated what exactly it is that I meant by that, so either you accept my explanation or you split hairs...

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 08:17 PM

So after going back thru a week of threads and finding nothing on the topic...:huh:

It is my sincerist wish to see police officers murder an unarmed white male, just to prove race and class have nothing to do with it, or at least provide the appearance that it doesn't... :joft:

4 cops fire 42 shots at a guy reaching for a wallet, they walk...
now 5 cops let off 50 shots with one being responsible for 31 of those shots, if they walk on this...:mad:

To be exact if we're hair splitting

Rajah

7 Dec 2006, 08:20 PM

so either you accept my explanation or you split hairs...Believe me, I have no wish to do that any more. The thread is yours.

ApeTheDog

7 Dec 2006, 08:21 PM

Fuck that. I've only started reading here, but this thread is now MINE.

Yield. Both of you.

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 08:22 PM

Fuck that. I've only started reading here, but this thread is now MINE.

Yield. Both of you.

LMAO... :joft:

NoahFence

7 Dec 2006, 08:28 PM

ApeTheDog

7 Dec 2006, 08:30 PM

Yes, LMAO away. Sing the timeless chant of the fools. But treasure no hopes of ever seeing your precious thread again, unless hanging out of my ass, after it had gone through my bowels, having been devoured it in it's entirity.

I wonder if this post single-handledly killed the whole "INTP Central revival" thing songbird was alluding to.

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 08:38 PM

cafe

7 Dec 2006, 08:44 PM

It's not a white guy getting gunned down by the cops, but it's a little something.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um5D1G2DCYU

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 08:46 PM

I fucks with Pinky :thumbup:

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 08:57 PM

A black comedian said it very well, I think:

Comedian: Why'd you stop me?
Police: You matched the description of a suspect we're chasing.
Comedian: Oh yeah!? What was the description? "A black male"?!?

It's pretty much appalling.

Reminds me of a joke another comic told... speaking about being arrested in london, no guns, bobbys were polite, asked him if he'd like to be cuffed... Said he thought it was a set up so he put on his cuffs and threw himself to the ground for good measure

PonderBee

7 Dec 2006, 08:58 PM

Your new avatar reminds me of the time just after I'd proven my point and just before I called a the regional manager of a local Office Max store. I'd pissed the store manager off so much that he balled his fist, extended his arm horizontally from the hip and repeatedly thrust it back and forth while he said "You're really giving it to me now aren't ya'!" This was on the front end of his very busy store.

Needless to say I got a full refund (for my boss) and an in-person apology (for me).

http://forums.intpcentral.com/image.php?u=1222&dateline=1165524243

PenguinHunter

7 Dec 2006, 09:10 PM

I'm not advocating anything... Just expressing my frustration...

Ok. This is the type of answer I was hoping for from my first post. To you, this is a personal thread. Fair enough.

Most people responding seem to be saying "Ok, here we have a problem, let's figure out what to do about it." Discussing a solution to an issue like this requires that one draws on personal experience and positions to rationalize different possible approaches. When someone says that your generalizations about the police don't help, they have already assumed this thread is about finding a solution - which it clearly is not. You take offence because this is a personal reaction to the status quo, not to be discussed, merely reflected on.

You question the validity of these people's experiences and don't want them discussing the issue (with these [white suburban] experiences as a base) rationally as a result.

Basically you want some sympathy, venting, and acknowledgement of the existence of a problem. Because this thread is in "The World," people are trying to tackle the issue themselves since you are not offering anything besides a problem - the standard intro to a discussion of problem/solution thread.

Does this sound right?

(I think there is still the problem of a conflict in your views on understanding/relating and actually caring but maybe that discussion doesn't belong here.)

immortalmack

7 Dec 2006, 10:13 PM

I think that with Kendoiwan being in thr same neighborhood as this latest murder his whole neighborhood is prolly hot.

Solidarity is needed.(I'll keep the fist as long as you will)

FranG

7 Dec 2006, 10:15 PM

^^^^
Hold ya heads brothas

kendoiwan

7 Dec 2006, 11:46 PM

Ok. This is the type of answer I was hoping for from my first post. To you, this is a personal thread. Fair enough.

Most people responding seem to be saying "Ok, here we have a problem, let's figure out what to do about it." Discussing a solution to an issue like this requires that one draws on personal experience and positions to rationalize different possible approaches. When someone says that your generalizations about the police don't help, they have already assumed this thread is about finding a solution - which it clearly is not. You take offence because this is a personal reaction to the status quo, not to be discussed, merely reflected on.

You question the validity of these people's experiences and don't want them discussing the issue (with these [white suburban] experiences as a base) rationally as a result.

Basically you want some sympathy, venting, and acknowledgement of the existence of a problem. Because this thread is in "The World," people are trying to tackle the issue themselves since you are not offering anything besides a problem - the standard intro to a discussion of problem/solution thread.

Does this sound right?

(I think there is still the problem of a conflict in your views on understanding/relating and actually caring but maybe that discussion doesn't belong here.)

The expression of frustration statement pertains soley to the stated desire to see an unarmed white male murdered by the police...

Fuck the police is just that... what I'm not interested in is people telling me that doesn't or isn't going to help... One preceded the other... Cops murder, I say fuck em, not the reverse so you or anyone else telling me it doesn't help to take that tact is where I say their limited experience with the matter limits their ability understand the problem... I'm not interested in the feelings of the "good cops" their job isn't related to how I may feel about them, and if they care so much (Once again shouts to the 100 black men in law enforcement for standing up) do something to change my opinion...