The different typology theories behind M-B and Jung

[Onmymind_too]

removed

[Johnny]

Are you an authorized MBTI administrator?

[Utopmk]

Thank you for letting us in your extensive research of the MBTI.
I have just skimmed over it a bit, but I am sure I will come back and read it.




Since reading the content of the threads, it appears that many people here have "found" their MBTI via an online test and not through physically sitting the test under an authorized MBTI administrator.

Are you saying that these online tests are not accurate?
What if we have taken multiple versions of the tests, with the same result?
Are you denying that some of us are INTPs?
Are you discrediting the internet as a powerful resource of information, for everything MBTI? If so I would have to disagree.I think most of us are fully capable
of finding our own MBTI related information, without an "official" administrator .

However, I am impressed with your knowledge of the MBTI, and can see how you will be a valuable member to our forum. Welcome




Johnny
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:59 am Post subject:
Are you an authorized MBTI administrator?

Well, are you? :cheers:

[Division56]

Hmm, most of us, at least the more senior members, have done a lot of research on MBTI ourselves. I know I have a whole bookshelf of personality type books based on MBTI.

We're not all stumbling around in the dark here.

[nobarcode]

Are you an authorized MBTI administrator? ~ Johnny

I wish to refrain from answering that question on an internet public forum.

Now...what kind of answer is that? Why post your authoritative opinion then? Have you "found" your MBTI via sitting through the test under an authorized MBTI administrator? Where did this take place and with whom? What was your result?

Reasonable questions, no?

*edit* taken from your introduction.

Since 1985 I have been actively involved with MBTI®
hmmm. The carrot is almost gone.

[nobarcode]

Now...what kind of answer is that? ~ nobarcode

It is my answer.

From my perspective I found the question to be not just intrusive but irrelevant to the subject matter. Therefore, my response reflected my right to maintain privacy regarding this matter on a public forum.


Why post your authoritative opinion then? ~ nobarcode
I never stated that my opinion on this matter is authoritative .... that judgement is totally one that is based on your perspective.
Perhaps though, you may have intended to use the term "informed opinion" instead?

Well the question may be "intrusive" I suppose, but warranted. It also seems relevant to the subject matter that you posted on a public forum being that 3 people responding to this post have asked the question.

Actually I intended to use the term... ...nevermind.

[antireconciler]

Now...what kind of answer is that? ~ nobarcode

It is my answer.

From my perspective I found the question to be not just intrusive but irrelevant to the subject matter. Therefore, my response reflected my right to maintain privacy regarding this matter on a public forum.

Okay, keep private if you want. I don't understand you're feelings that it is somehow an intrusion (like, at all), so please explain.

Also, what could be "irrelevant to the subject matter"? This is a discussion!

Why the closeness?

[Utopmk]

Well the question may be "intrusive" I suppose, but warranted. It also seems relevant to the subject matter that you posted on a public forum being that 3 people responding to this post have asked the question.

The obvious answer to the question is no.
He/she is afraid that we might not take his/her theory as seriously, since he/she is not an official MBTI Administrator.
We must atleast assume this to be true, until further information is provided.

I belive it is "irrelevant", how we came to belive that we are INTPs, and it is even "intrusive" to state otherwise.

[Melody]

The answer could be anything. If an MBTI dude, we might be inclined to ask for free typificationization.

[nobarcode]

........The point is, many people are eager to latch on, identify with, then set out to understand their *personality label* assigned to them from an online test. Because of the availability of these online tests, the *typology result received* or *found* is often misguidedly judged and then ignorantly reported by the testee to be the MBTI.....

Sabotaged? Cry me a river.


it appears that many people here have "found" their MBTI via an online test
You said it. Unless you WERE NOT specically refering to "us", without substantiation, don't say so. Otherwise.....

[Johnny]

I chose INTP as my personality type preference with help from a licensed MBTI instructor, both in learning the meanings of the E/I, S/N, T/F, and J/P scales in-and-of-themselves as well as through tests.

When I found this forum and took the Kiersey tests, I did not find my results to vary significantly. But if I found myself in disagreement with the online test results, I might not have been so liberal here. It's as Onmy_Mind says, MBTI isn't designed to tell you where you fit in their model without your consent. It's ultimately up to you decide this. So why not make it an informed decision?

[Odyssey]

Thanks for your extensive thoughts (whether or not I'll agree with them ;-] ), and I'm taking a deeper look at it tonight --

[edit] Yep! That is The Correct MBTI by my research as well. It gets more complicated solving an X with someone who tests as an INXP ;-] (What's my most comfortable dominant introverted rational function? I'm never fully certain... etc.), or INTX in the case of Vagabond.

~Odyssey


(PS: Defensiveness is contagious! lol)

[nobarcode]

.............
PS: Defensiveness is contagious! lol
lol Well you know? I mean, really. I just don't want to be known (have the responsibility) as the Head Butcher. :ph34r:

[shaytana]

since neither MBTI nor the Keirsey Temperament Sorter can be interchanged with the other, since both have different theoretical fundamentals - understanding the process used is more important than gaining a four letter tag.

Can you explain the different theoretical fundamentals?

my typing of course came from online tests based on Keirsey as I am sure most of us here as well but much more from reading and anaylzing and second guessing and conducting little and big experiements etc etc.

[Jkrs]

What kind of questions would be used to determine a preference along the S/N scale?

[Odyssey]

Although these two questions mean the same, the wording of the question is directed towards a particular preferred function. The initial ease at answering according to the wording of the question without experiencing an initial *balking*, would indicate a preference towards either the F/T.

LOL! I find that amusing because I answered each version with equal ease, as far as I can tell.

However, I did balk at the "What did you wear yesterday?" question. I finally remember it now after about 5 minutes of typing this - even though I was even at a highly memorable WEDDING in a SUIT. haha. So much for Sensation memory ;-] Imagining what I could wear tomorrow is a piece of cake. Hm... (I could wear a hat that looks like a wedge of cake.) But anyway.

I'm no authority, but I think S/N questions could see if you're more comfortable with visualizing new situations vs. reproducing a previous situation, and other S/N differences.
Like, quick: What colors are in my eyes? What would dinner be like at zero gravity, using chopsticks? How does the carpet feel against your feet when you walk? How does the universe look like from the point of view of the sun?

Maybe. *shrug*

~Odyssey

[Jkrs]

Hmm.

1) From the looks of it, green and purple. ;)
2) Really hard.
3) You expect me to be able to describe that? (I know quite well how the carpet feels because my feet are resting on it right now. It'd be really difficult to describe though)
4) Not enough information. Tentatively, assuming the entire sun as a viewpoint, somewhat like the view from a tilt-a-whirl.

The first two were pretty easy, but both of the last pair got some kind of objection.

Hmmm. Thanks.

[antireconciler]

See, I never know what you're thinking, or how you feel about something, because you so seldom share anything I couldn't find in an encyclopedia. Is that just because you're more developed? Am I taking two things things that don't relate and smushing them together?

[Odyssey]

I'll be a regular-aged senior in high school, still legally dependent. *hmph* You hinted that I'm OLD! (a.k.a. 30) *cough* =]

Before I continue, I'm curious: what exactly would a pure Jungian mean by "attitude"? Would that be rational vs. "irrational", or more like a philosophy-attitude towards life?

I think it's funny that Jung would believe that my T is underdeveloped or unconscious (<= out of my control) because I'm one of the highest performing in my grade, academically and extracurricularly. I'm able to mount logical arguments quite fine, I think. haha. (I do consistently get good grades for being especially systematic and coherent in writing or presentations.)

I'd also be surprised if my F is underdeveloped or unconscious, because [for example] I'm constantly engaged with it during piano playing to make emotional decisions and expressions. I'm on my 10th year of piano lessons, and I greatly appreciate the awards I've earned, coupled with comments about my emotional 'sophistication' and 'sensitivity' as well as necessary technical precision.

To theorize a bit: It seems like whenever I strive for Excellence, practicing all functions at some point is a necessity. The degree of each function that I use depends on the activity. And, since I strive for Excellence constantly, I regularly have conscious exposure to each function. That hardly means I'm excellent at all functions! But, I've noticed that all the people in my social circle who also work for excellence at something(s) - and are successful at doing so (n=10ish) - tend to have very complex characters. Some are both really logical but really emotionally aware, and/or very spiritual while being surprisingly secular, or an admirably organized individual [J?] who's surprisingly spontaneous [P!]... They really fascinate me with their supposed paradoxes that are more rarely seen in other people. I haven't even started talking about the psychological androgyny! (I wrote a journal essay on that.) So, I'd imagine my personality has a similar enigmatic appearance from outside; I have been called "weird" and "impossible to understand" ;-]

In light of my thoughts, what's to be said?

~Odyssey

PS: LOL Jkrs @ my eye color. & Hm, you're welcome.

[Odyssey]

I didn't hint that you may be old, if anything I was assuming that there was a possibility you may not be of adult age
LOL, I was just teasing you because you seemed like you might be cautious in asking if I was young or not =) Ah nevermind. I shall assume my straight face for you. :mellow: Yes, I'm cognizant of the theoretical knowledge existing that Jungian functional development is age related, dependent on the age being 17, 18, 34, or 75 and a half for example. :mellow:


"attitude" is either an Introversion or Extroversion preference
*duh* Thanks.


Jung did not equate the Thinking function with or to the level of one's intelligence, these are two entirely different concepts.
You're right. I think the latter part of my paragraph describing logical and systematic tendencies better expresses Thinking; is not introverted Thinking the tendency to form theories and verify it with facts, and also to follow one's own 'picture' of theoretical guidelines, for example by obeying internalized systems of grammar use? (Intelligence could thus help Thinking's theoretical systems be more accurate, in the same way that emotional intelligence may aid in Feeling's tasks as I understand them - see next paragraph.)


A dominant F function does not equate to emotions, since both T function people and F function people have emotions.
Even after reading about Feeling in Jung's chapter 10 online recently (-Hush), I thought that F dictated the appropriate & effective expression and management of ones emotional state, whether appropriate when compared objectively to the social environment (E) or to one's own subjective interpretation (I) - in order to create harmony. If Feeling has nothing to do with the ability to process and appropriately express emotions from awe to repulsion to joy, then I'm ignorant as to what Jung is talking about. From my current understanding, Thinking types have emotions, but they don't process or express a wide range of them appropriately - that is, dealing with emotions is less a conscious process.


It may be of some benefit to you if you get hold of the works of Jung and look at his Psychological Types theory in order that you gain a better understanding.
Sure, I'm interested. My long-term expectations don't permit too much of a time investment in it, though, so I'll have to content myself with individual chapters and external summaries at leisure. 'Any recommendations that could maximize time vs. useful/enjoyable learning?

~Odyssey

[Miss Padfoot]

Onmymind,
You said earlier that the real MBTI incorporates all 8 functions, including the "shadow" functions. I have not read much involving the four shadow functions and whether we actually use them, why we should develop them, etc. (And the little that I have read was not by Isabel Myers but by Lenore Thomson.) Can you give me an explanation of how an INTP can utilize his or her shadow functions, or if not, then tell me where I can read about such?