Is James Kim still alive?

[JAVO]

Full story:
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/12/04/BAGR2MP9383.DTL

Google map:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=galice,+oregon&ie=UTF8&z=12&ll=42.659717,-123.743134&spn=0.114119,0.346069&om=1

Weather conditions:
http://www.weather.com/outlook/recreation/outdoors/pastweather/061102:13?when=-2
(Typical temps since James left the car: High: 52 Low: 26, no new precipitation, maybe snow on the ground?, fog in valleys at night)

Key factors
Last full meal Nov. 25

"they didn't have enough gas to get back to Grants Pass."

"ran the engine for three days to power the heater until the car ran out of gas,... huddled together in the car to stay warm.... burned all their tires, even the spare, to stay warm. "

"James Kim left his family with their 2005 Saab station wagon at 7:45 a.m. Saturday and said he would return by 1 p.m. that day, authorities said. He walked about 2 miles along the same road they had driven and then went into a creek drainage, where two trackers were trying to follow his footprints. "

"She said he was kind of weak when he left, but she thought he would be OK."

"...the two parents gave most of the food to the children and drank melted snow. The lack of food may have taken a toll on James Kim by the time he decided to go for help..."

From CNN:
"The family has been apart since early Saturday morning, when Kim left his wife and girls in their frozen car and set off to seek help. He wore only tennis shoes, a sweater and a jacket."

Edit:
One report (I don't know which) stated that he had snowshoes.

[Rajah]

Moved.

[Ivy]

I have no idea. I hope so. All I can say after reading that article: Hooray for Boobies.

[JAVO]

I hope he is, but logic tells me he probably isn't.

On last report, his tracks led into a rugged gorge which well-equipped technical rescue teams were struggling with. He probably intended to follow the stream down to the Rogue River, and the river down to the main road. That seems like a good plan, but when the terrain surrounding the stream is too rugged to traverse without taking unreasonable risks, the stream needs to be followed from higher in the gorge.

I think he probably fell victim to hypothermia, especially since he didn't really seem to have the calorie intake or fat reserves that would be needed to both stay warm and face the physically-demanding terrain. It's likely he was injured in a fall which impeded his ability to stay warm and hydrated.

Either way, I look forward to hearing the final outcome of the search so that I can learn from the challenges he faced.


I have no idea. I hope so. All I can say after reading that article: Hooray for Boobies.
:rofl:

Things I've learned from this:
1. If you're lost with kids, make sure there's a lactating female in the group.
2. Stay put. Don't go for help unless there is no other option. (Despite what you see on the show Man vs. Wild.)

[JAVO]

Things look a little more like he might still be alive:



There was no backpack discovered yesterday after they found James' pants (some news reported this yeseterday and today). They did find some clothes and pieces of a map left by James. The authorities are clear that these items were laid out in a pattern suggesting clues James left on purpose.


From the family's web site: http://jamesandkati.com/

[nottaprettygal]

Yeah. I know they found his pants somewhere. I was thinking about what I would leave behind to mark my path, and I don't think it would be my pants. Being found pantsless seems rather embarrassing, especially with the massive shrinkage he is likely experiencing out in the cold.

[Jennywocky]

Yeah. I know they found his pants somewhere. I was thinking about what I would leave behind to mark my path, and I don't think it would be my pants. Being found pantsless seems rather embarrassing, especially with the massive shrinkage he is likely experiencing out in the cold.

From what I read, the pants were just the sweatpants he had been wearing overtop of his jeans/actual pants.

But the fact that he was discarding additional layers of clothes is not a good sign. It's like the alpine climbers who are found almost frozen to death, and they've taken off their gloves and hat and unzipped their suits partway. They are delirious and think they're hot, whereas they're actually almost dead from cold.

[Ivy]

They just found his body. Very sad.

[cafe]

They just found his body. Very sad.

:(

[Ivy]

Yeah, I'm not sure why but this one's getting to me. Maybe because he's a geek like Noah and they have two young kids like we do. I can see this kind of thing happening to us. I can't imagine how she must be taking the news, especially after the hopeful signs earlier today.

Anyway, not to F all over your thread, JAVO. He went down into a drainage area, supposedly, and seemed to be leaving either clues for someone to find him or maybe breadcrumbs to find his own way back. Do you think he had altered mental status, or do you think he had a strategy of some kind? I'm betting on the former, since he had not eaten significantly in so long and it had dipped below freezing at night for the past few nights.

[Jennywocky]

They just found his body. Very sad.

Crap. That really stinks.

Especially because he was a good enough person to shoulder the load and look for help, while his family stayed put; and they were saved and he was not. Sigh.

He was probably a bit delirious, based on the circumstances and what has happened to people in similar situations. People start doing very weird things when their body chemistry gets screwed up.

[JAVO]

Very sad.

I wonder if James Kim had seen any of those over-dramatized survival shows (eg., Man vs. Wild) where the "lost" person always finds his way to civilization by leaping off cliffs and climbing waterfalls--all in violation of basic wilderness survival principles. :mad:


Anyway, not to F all over your thread, JAVO.

Oh no, I was afraid of that... :eek: ;)



He went down into a drainage area, supposedly, and seemed to be leaving either clues for someone to find him or maybe breadcrumbs to find his own way back. Do you think he had altered mental status, or do you think he had a strategy of some kind? I'm betting on the former, since he had not eaten significantly in so long and it had dipped below freezing at night for the past few nights.

The reports I read made it sound like the clothing had a definite pattern, indicating a breadcrumb/signage strategy rather than hypothermic disrobing. The searchers interpreted it as a pattern, and I assume they've seen signs of hypothermic disrobing before.

I don't know what his survival knowledge was (one report said "some outdoor experience"), but it would've been a realistic and good strategy to follow creeks downstream. He undoubtedly knew that the Rogue River was nearby, and that it would lead him to the nearby main road. Following creeks downstream is one easy way to avoid walking in circles, which many lost people do. (Interestingly, left handed people tend to veer left, right handed to the right.) It's an always-available water source. Of course, following a creek in a steep mountain gorge isn't very easy.

Maybe he didn't stay on the road because of the confusing network of winding roads. If he had a sufficiently detailed road map, he didn't necessarily know exactly where he was on it. Maybe he thought following the creek was a better strategy due to it being a more direct route to the river.

Either way, he would've been better off:

1. Staying with the car. (Result: sleeping in a warm house with his wife and children tonight.)

2. Walking on the road. (Result: searchers on ATV's or helicopters with thermal imaging would've probably found him within 24 hours of finding his car. He might've been alive.)

3. Walking on a known trail (if there are any near there). (Result: searchers might have found him yesterday.)

[abathur]

Especially because he was a good enough person to shoulder the load and look for help, while his family stayed put; and they were saved and he was not. Sigh.

Yeah. That's the part that bothers me, too. He died trying to "be a man" about it.

[JAVO]

James Kim, 35, died of exposure and hypothermia
time of death cannot be determined
Kim thought the nearby town of Galice was only 4 miles distant, although it was really 15 miles away
He thought that if he could get to the river, he could make it to the town.
He walked eight miles in rough terrain
Kim's body found about a mile from car in a ravine at the base of a cliff in Big Windy Creek's shallow water
He was found fully clothed on his back
Kati Kim and daughters had also set out on foot when they were found
Kim's body was found about noon Wednesday (3 p.m. ET).

Tonight at 10:00 EST, Anderson Cooper 360 will discuss surviving in the wilderness.

Sources:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/12/07/missing.family/index.html
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=2708633
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/12/07/national/main2237032.shtml