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charred_heart
16 Dec 2006, 06:37 AM
Mohammed Splitting the Moon in Two





"The demand of the pagans to the Prophet to show them a miracle. The Prophet showed them the splitting of the moon. Narrated ?Abdullah bin Massud: During the lifetime of the Prophet the moon was split into two parts and on that the Prophet said, ?Bear witness (to this).?" Bukhari vol.4 book 56 ch.26 and vol.4 book 56 no.830 p.533.

"Narrated Anas that the Meccan people requested Allah?s Apostle to show them a miracle, and so he showed them the splitting of the moon." Bukhari vol.4 book 56 no.831 p.533.

"Narrated Ibn ?Abbas: The moon was split into two parts during the lifetime of the Prophet." Bukhari vol.4 book 56 no.832 p.534.

Splitting the moon. Bukhari vol.6 book 60 no.290 and footnote 1 p.273; vol.6 book 60 no.387-391 p.365-366; vol.6 book 60 no.345,349,368-370 p.331,336

Splitting the moon Sahih Muslim vol.4 book 37 no.6721,6724-6730 p.1467-1468

Sura 54:1 says, "The Hour (of Judgment) is nigh, and the moon was cleft asunder. (Yusuf ?Ali revised edition).

Note that cleft asunder means the mean was split in half, and the verb here is past tense. We have no records of any other people in the world, including close-by Egypt, Syria, or Persia that saw the moon split in two. The Qur?an and hadiths do not say how it got back together either.

Yusuf ?Ali in footnote 5128 says, "Three explanations are given in the Mufradat, and perhaps all three apply here: (1) that the moon once appeared cleft asunder in the valley of Makkah within sight of the Prophet, his Companions, and some Unbelievers; (2) that the prophetic past tense indicates the future, the cleaving asunder of the moon being a Sign of the Judgment approaching; and (3) that the phrase is metaphorical, meaning that the matter has become clear as the moon. That the first was noticed by contemporaries, including Unbelievers, is clear from verse 2. The second is an incident of the disruption of the solar system at the New Creation: Cf. lxxv. 8-9."




http://www.muslimhope.com/AstronomyAndTheQuran.htm



I was shocked a site so many reference has these kinds of translations. 'Splitting of the moon' is an expression that refers to the eclipse.


Then, on how the Quran states that iron came from space:

Of course, such an interpretation, which presupposes the truth of the evolutionary bases which underlie the scientific theory, flatly contradicts the instantaneous creation taught by the Qur?an (Surah 2:117) where Allah says, ?Be! And it is.?
it can be just as easily said that God made evolution or any process to come to existence with a command. Command is a metaphor, as are the other stories where God creates beings and planets - a reference to bringing about an action with no effort exerted. Every muslim is taught that no human can fathom how God creates, taking these things literally would contradict with that. It would be like saying "I KNOW how God created the universe". The stories centering on creation only indicate how certain things came to exist - not how they were made.

The fact still remains that in Chapter 57, Verse 25, God (according to the prophet Mohammed) stated that iron is not of this planet and that it came from space.





From now on, if I'm discussing Islam it will be on the core beliefs of the religion. Someone bringing me some story they saw on the internet, I'll pass.

Stoned_Rider
16 Dec 2006, 09:05 AM
Eclipse is something else in Arabic. It's called Khusoof. I think in the hadith it is explicitly mentioned that the moon was split in two (as a miracle).

As for Iron, how do you know that it implies it came from outer space? Is it the word Anzalna (we brought down)?

charred_heart
16 Dec 2006, 09:13 AM
Eclipse is something else in Arabic. It's called Khusoof. I think in the hadith it is explicitly mentioned that the moon was split in two (as a miracle).

As for Iron, how do you know that it implies it came from outer space? Is it the word Anzalna (we brought down)?the spitting of the moon is a known expression that describes the eclipse in Arabic, and predicting the eclipse in that time was certainly a miracle. What's your point?

Regarding iron, the verse states that it did not exist on earth. Since we now know it came from space, and since the verse mentions that it was brought down the implication is there. Reading the verse in the middle ages, a person would imagine iron coming from the sky and embedding on the earth. I think this is the only way of presenting this fact to a people with no scientific knowledge (or even literacy), in a way they can digest and pass on to future generations.

Stoned_Rider
16 Dec 2006, 09:26 AM
the spitting of the moon is a known expression that describes the eclipse in Arabic, and predicting the eclipse in that time was certainly a miracle. What's your point?
I've never seen a lunar eclipse in which the moon "was split into two parts". The meaning clearly isn't metaphorical.


Regarding iron, the verse states that it did not exist on earth. Since we now know it came from space, and since the verse mentions that it was brought down the implication is there. Reading the verse in the middle ages, a person would imagine iron coming from the sky and embedding on the earth. I think this is the only way of presenting this fact to a people with no scientific knowledge (or even literacy), in a way they can digest and pass on to future generations.
But.. the exact same word is used for describing cattle in other verses. "We brought down cattle". Does that mean cattle is from outer space as well?

Abelard
16 Dec 2006, 11:41 AM
There is significant wisdom in the ayat about iron. All meteorites are ferric, and I don't understand the importance of the Black Stone but there is an obvious relationship and the fact the a found meteorite was believed to have come from space back in the eighth century seems sort of miraculous to me.

The M. Asad translation and tafsir ibn Kathir
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=57&tid=52680
more clearly define "iron from above" as the knowledge of the use of iron in defense of God and in the improvement of the human condition sent to mankind as a divine inspiration, and I personally found that to be a rather pleasant meditation this morning.

Thanks to Charred Heart for getting my day off to a good start!

charred_heart
16 Dec 2006, 11:47 AM
I've never seen a lunar eclipse in which the moon "was split into two parts". The meaning clearly isn't metaphorical.still, it is an old arab metaphor. You'd have to look into pre-islamic poetry where it is mentioned to understand the meaning behind it.


But.. the exact same word is used for describing cattle in other verses. "We brought down cattle". Does that mean cattle is from outer space as well?Curiously, plants are described rising from the earth in the parts of the Quran I have read.
I don't know, modern science has so far found that creatures evolved from single cell entities, the possibilities of what sparked the evolution from these single celled entities to the varied life forms that followed are endless. What I can understand from the verses you are talking about is that there is a distinction between those creatures that were "brought down" and those that were "from the earth". What that distinction is, I have no logical answer to that.
This was the case in a verse where God "is ever expanding the heavens". It didn't make sense to muslim scholars, so they admitted to not understanding it. Now we have a theory that the universe is expanding.
It is what I'd expect from a book that is supposed to be sufficiently challenging for all of humanity from the 5th century to a time when humans cease to exist.

charred_heart
16 Dec 2006, 12:07 PM
There is significant wisdom in the ayat about iron. All meteorites are ferric, and I don't understand the importance of the Black Stone but there is an obvious relationship and the fact the a found meteorite was believed to have come from space back in the eighth century seems sort of miraculous to me.

The M. Asad translation and tafsir ibn Kathir
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=57&tid=52680
more clearly define "iron from above" as the knowledge of the use of iron in defense of God and in the improvement of the human condition sent to mankind as a divine inspiration, and I personally found that to be a rather pleasant meditation this morning.

Thanks to Charred Heart for getting my day off to a good start!
you're welcome, but whoah!


(I was sent with the sword just before the Hour so that Allah be worshipped alone without partners. My provision was placed under the shadow of my spear, and those who defy my order were disgraced and humiliated, and he who imitates a people is one of them.)

there is a distinction between the arabic phrases "khalaf amri" (the one the prophet spoke) and "asa amri"
Both mean to not follow an order, but The former implies going against an order while the latter implies defiance of the order. The former would be spoken as a warning implying indirect repurcussions while the latter would be spoken as a threat.

EDIT: The interpretations and historical "summarising" in that page is... for lack of a better word warped.

When the evidence was established against those who defied the Messenger , Allah decreed the Hijrahwhere did that come from? The prophet decided that the muslims who faced the harshest abuse for their religion (the poor and without social standing) should seek refuge in an accommodating nation. I've never heard any respectable scholar state that God commanded the muslims to leave their land after enough proof has been gathered on the oneness of God (from God himself?). Very strange interpretation... alright you got me there http://forums.intpcentral.com/images/smilies/dry.gif

Huston
28 Dec 2006, 09:13 PM
Regarding iron, the verse states that it did not exist on earth. Since we now know it came from space, and since the verse mentions that it was brought down the implication is there. Reading the verse in the middle ages, a person would imagine iron coming from the sky and embedding on the earth. I think this is the only way of presenting this fact to a people with no scientific knowledge (or even literacy), in a way they can digest and pass on to future generations.

So it is not a way to express science to idiots. Many people believed Iron came from space back then and way before. The Egytians, The Hittite, and Minoans said Iron came from space (or a word equivalent to the sky above). Same goes for the Inca. They place iron above gold. People saw meteorites fall from the sky. That is how most people got iron. They got it from meteorites.

Yasir
7 Sep 2008, 04:22 PM
Well I am sure the Bible etc are full of equations explaining red shift...

mimie
21 Sep 2008, 03:24 PM
It was God who split the moon in half. Not the prophet. But God did this after Mohammed told the people if God wanted to split the moon in half, He could. And so it happened and after that God made the moon hole again.

Yasir
23 Sep 2008, 06:28 PM
Assumption 1: Moon was split.
Assumption 2: 'God' exists.
Assumption 3: 'God' did it.

Proof: Its written in a book.
I am so fucking convinced I am going to go blow up a bus.

MacGuffin
23 Sep 2008, 06:32 PM
Assumption 1: Moon was split.
Assumption 2: 'God' exists.
Assumption 3: 'God' did it.

Proof: Its written in a book.
I am so fucking convinced I am going to go blow up a bus.

*emails Homeland Security*

dubbeltop
24 Sep 2008, 10:50 AM
*emails Homeland Security*

He works at the post office ....:wub:

Yasir
25 Sep 2008, 10:58 PM
Gitmo needs to be expanded. There are 160 million potential terrorists in my country.
Potential Terrorist: Muslim. Alive. If has working knowledge of TV remotes, shoot on sight.

kendoiwan
25 Sep 2008, 11:38 PM
Gitmo needs to be expanded. There are 160 million potential terrorists in my country.
Potential Terrorist: Muslim. Alive. If has working knowledge of TV remotes, shoot on sight.

=)) =)) =)) I literally LOL'ed at this

Yasir
26 Sep 2008, 07:06 AM
Form an "INTPs against Bush" party. Just on general principles.