Native American biogenocide - the poll

[DevNull]

Did the United States ever give blankets infected with smallpox to the Native Americans?

[Google Monster]

Yup

[cafe]

Very probably.

[DevNull]

Polls are one thing.

Either of you have some knowledge to share with old DevNull?

I am just itching to figure out where people come up with these thoughts.

[Google Monster]

Land was occupied. Land was needed. Land was taken. The details on how can vary.

[Marston]

http://www.nativeweb.org/pages/legal/amherst/lord_jeff.html

That took about a minute to find.

[DevNull]

http://www.nativeweb.org/pages/legal/amherst/lord_jeff.html

That took about a minute to find.

It only took me one second to discern that Lord Jeffrey Amherst was commanding general of British forces in North America during the final battles of the so-called French & Indian war (1754-1763).

I said the UNITED STATES, not England. The US came to be in 1776 and we kicked the shit out of the Lords like Jeff Amherst. Rightly so.

[Marston]

We beat the shit out of lords like him...and rightly so...because they were mean to the Indians? Wait, what? Are you trying to draw me into a fight?

You asked where this idea came from, and I gave it to you. I sense some disingenousness on your part. Perhaps you're merely baiting us for an argument over how liberals are so stupid, they'd believe the US gave smallpox blankets to Indians.

Just perhaps.

[DevNull]

Because they were mean to the Indians?

You asked where this idea came from, and I gave it to you.


You did not.

You pointed me to where a British commander gave infected blankets to Native Americans.

Are you saying you do not know the difference between a British commander and the United States of America?

[Marston]

I don't think the British commander knew what the United States of America was, either, at the time.

Because it was a colony.

Under Britain.

If one were not interested in trolling, one would make the huge cognitive leap to (1) associating the 13 colonies with the United States and (2) realizing how that urban legend might have gotten started (because of before-mentioned association).

[DevNull]

I one would make the huge cognitive leap to (1) associating the 13 colonies with the United States

The 13 colonies did not give infected blankets to the Native Americans.

A British commander did.

He was not the US and he was not 13 colonies, nor was he part of them. He was a British commander.

[Marston]

That's nice.

[cafe]

It only took me one second to discern that Lord Jeffrey Amherst was commanding general of British forces in North America during the final battles of the so-called French & Indian war (1754-1763).

I said the UNITED STATES, not England. The US came to be in 1776 and we kicked the shit out of the Lords like Jeff Amherst. Rightly so.
I overlooked that detail. Those folks were our predecessors and, in that war, people who became citizens and leaders of the United States fought as British forces. If it was not the U.S. that did it, it was still us, so to speak. We were obviously capable of that and worse.

[DevNull]

Those folks were our predecessors


Predecessors is the operative word.

The United States has never purposely infected Native Americans with Smallpox.

I am surprised at the poll result. I am the only person who does not pull incidents out of thin air on this one.

[FranG]

The U.S. and Britain are two arms of the same body. It doesn't matter which of them did what, the end result was the same Always been like that and still is to this day. Indians were a clean and peaceful people, intuned with nature. They stood no chance against those dirty diseases brought over from Europe.

[DevNull]

The U.S. and Britain are two arms of the same body.

Too bad the US did not exist in 1763 when the intentional smallpox infection happened.

King George III would disagree with you anyway. He was in charge back in the olden days.

PS. It was a revolutionary war, not a civil war. One arm broke free and spawned a new entity. the US and Britian were NEVER, EVER two arms of the same body. Simple history.

[FranG]

One arm never broke free, the U.S. is still owned by the crown. But they'll have you believe that though. And I'm sure King George, George Washington, George Bush and Tony Blair would all disagree.

[DevNull]

the U.S. is still owned by the crown.

You are that NWO poster, aren't you?

So does this meant the NWO is run by the crown or that the NWO runs the crown?

[FranG]

The crown is a country. The NWO is much bigger than a country.

[DevNull]

The crown is a country. The NWO is much bigger than a country.


That puts the US down two whole pegs. Not only is the US under control of the crown, but the crown is under control of the NWO.

I am really bummed right now. I thought the US was an arrogant, but sole, superpower who has lost all of their goodwill. Now I find out that we are a third rate pawn.

That sucks.

I guess it sucks even more for France, though. They always cry about what we do so that makes them fourth rate.

(I think I am done talking to you now)

[abathur]

thank god for ward churchill?

edit: it doesn't surprise me that it's believed. We fucked the indians plenty of ways. You could probably fabricate a way we fucked the indians on the spot right now, have a poll on it, and get some positive responses.

[DevNull]

thank god for ward churchill?



Three of the authors that Churchill cites in support of his smallpox thesis, Evan Connell, RG Robertson and Russell Thornton, have rejected Churchill's interpretation of their work. Thornton characterized Churchill's smallpox thesis as "fabrication." (cite: Kevin Vaughan. Did Ward Churchill falsely accuse the U.S. Army in small pox epidemic? Our findings: His claim isn't supported by the sources he has cited. Rocky Mountain News).




Sucks to be Ward.

The May 2006 report by the Investigative Committee of the Standing Committee on Research Misconduct at the University of Colorado corroborated Churchill's critics. The committee concluded that for over a period of 10 years, Churchill consistently falsified his sources and fabricated claims regarding the Fort Clark epidemic. The committee criticized Churchill for failing to recognize and correct his errors, and for his insistence that he intends to republish his indictment of genocide in the future without substantive changes. The committee also criticized Churchill for answering his critics with ad hominem attacks instead of reason and evidence.



It REALLY sucks to be Ward.

[Google Monster]

US or brits, Doesn't matter. If the US thought of it first they would have done it too. Not sure how good this link is, I just came by it a few mins ago.

http://www.aigenom.com/TexasAppropriatelocationforAIGM.html

[meshou]

We certainly proudly carried that legacy all the way to genocide, even if there's no direct evidence the US did it.

Really, with everything else we did, it's pretty pedantic.

[Geoff]

This is rather a pointless thread, isnt it. The fledgling US abused indian rights, health and culture for long after it broke its arms off the UK (or however this thread decided it was created)

[TONE381]

Perhaps, although by that time most the damage which European disease wrought on Native Americans was already done. Hard to say if this supposed act would be all that significant in light of everything else done to Native Americans in this time.

Native Americans always come off as the victims, but that is simply the result of their lack of power. They often harassed European settlements, justly or not, with the intention of killing and committing atrocities. Had Native Americans had the power advantage over European transplants, I hardly think the result would be all that different in the reverse.