Drawbacks of INTPc

[airjaw]

Something thats been on my mind lately and needs to get off my chest is this disturbing feeling, perhaps from my intuition, that not everything on this board is as it should be. That something is missing, something is off, something is not right.

I cannot put my finger on it exactly but if I was forced to analyze this feeling and make a guess as to where it originates, I would first point to a number of things:

The lack of diversity on INTPc. While there is variation among INTP's, the variation of personality is significantly lower than that between personality types in the external world, aka "real life". While I recognize INTPc is a haven for INTP's, there is real danger in not recognizing this board for what it is.
Lack of diversity means a significantly reduced variation in opinions and beliefs. There is a much higher possibility of groupthink as well as a disconnect from reality - an inaccurate view of the real picture, or life.

Oftentimes I will stumble upon seemingly RIDICULOUS responses to problems or issues that INTP's may pose. At first I shrugged it off because I understood that many responses were merely sarcastic jokes. And yet the sincerity of some replies gave away the posters' true intentions - they really believed in what they were saying. Perhaps the time spent on INTPc and inside their own heads had truly warped their understanding of reality. Sarcastic joke upon sarcastic joke eventually turned into mindless, unfair, and unjust generalizations about SJ's, E's, and whatever other type those that believed in their victimization felt like blaming for their problems.

I believe this to be the root of the problem. This is not a real simulation of life nor does it claim to be, and too much faith in the infallibility of the intelligence of the INTP's on this board is not only misplaced but dangerous. You could really screw up your life by following some of the advice (or lack thereof) given on this board and I hate to see it happen.

I'm not perfect, nor do I claim to be. I will call BS when I see it however.

[FranG]

Yeah I feel you on the diversity thing. It's clearly a groupthink mentality on INTPc. Homogeneity is what INTPc does not need. I think the other types help to provide a little diversity though.

[Dunearhp]

I totally agree...:thumbup:


uh... :think:


hmm :unsure:


Oh, damn! :banghead:

[Deckard]

Yeah I feel you on the diversity thing. It's clearly a groupthink mentality on INTPc. Homogeneity is what INTPc does not need. I think the other types help to provide a little diversity though.
Groupthink my butt. Hallmarks of the intp are individualistic thinking and challenging the status quo. If we all individually arrive at the same opinion/position, that's probably because it's the logical one!

That said, i agree that diversity is a good thing. Always good to hear things from another perspective.

[garak]

Accept the board for what it is, and you will be fine.

[outmywindow]

I agree that sometimes we can be a bit hard and/or unfair about other types or everyday situations which arise from conflict between ourselves and other people (approximately 97% of whom are not INTP), and I think that's due to the fact that INTPc may be seen as a bit of a safe haven to express opinions (right or wrong) which may not otherwise be expressed. Due to its nature, INTPc is inherently a subjective environment, namely one which is subject to the frustrations, ideas, way of thinking, etc. of your average INTP. And you're right, this probably isn't all that healthy. However, since it's only a place of online interaction, hopefully it will remain a refuge as opposed to a template for some sort of impossible and idealistic society.

I know that personally, sometimes I'll shake my head after hanging out here and think how awesome the world would be if we all had to wear little badges proclaiming our types, just so that the expectations of various interactions could be more appropriately determined. Of course, though, after mulling this over for any decent amount of time, my "ideal" world quickly becomes anything but. Things get boring, and, were the world to consist of nothing but INTPs, all the traits I see as negative or detrimental about myself would only be grossly amplified, which is a scary thought... Of course the world (and INTPc) needs variety. It'd be dull without that, and a far more difficult place to live.

Honestly, I see INTPc as a place to go when the real world is getting me down, or I just want to interact with people who I will be more likely for me to easily engage. I don't know any INTPs irl (that I know of), so my chances for interacting with them are pretty much limited to here, and there are times when I want the simplicity of talking with people who tend to share a way of thinking (not necessarily a conclusion -- these are two very different things!). Coming here is taking the easy way out sometimes, but without that opportunity, I think I'd go nuts!

[garak]

You can gain self understanding and refinement thru homogenization with like types. But, after a while is turns into intellectual masturbation, which is fun and all, but [...] -- Helios

(used to have that in my sig)

And for what it's worth, I don't really even care much about MBTI anymore. I just come here because I like the people / topics / etc.

[aether]

Other types will just want attention and will continously spam the board. Plus, diversity is out there in the real world, everywhere around us -- it's easy to get. Reality always creeps back into our lives when we don't want it. Intpc is some kind of haven for us.

[outmywindow]

Plus, diversity is out there in the real world, everywhere around us -- it's easy to get. Reality always creeps back into our lives when we don't want it. Intpc is some kind of haven for us.

You said that so much more succinctly than I did. Thanks! :)

[aether]

You said that so much more succinctly than I did. Thanks! :)

NP :)

[FranG]

Groupthink my butt. Hallmarks of the intp are individualistic thinking and challenging the status quo. If we all individually arrive at the same opinion/position, that's probably because it's the logical one!


INTPs are just as subject to groupthink as any other type if put in the right environment. A place like INTPc, where you actually run into people who think like you, can influence groupthink. A sort of buddy club if you will. Also, INTPs just follow the same process of gathering, filtering, and disseminating data. That's where the similarity stops. The actual data gather, filtered, and disseminated is totally individualistic and, thus, diversity of conclusions.


Other types will just want attention and will continously spam the board. Plus, diversity is out there in the real world, everywhere around us -- it's easy to get. Reality always creeps back into our lives when we don't want it. Intpc is some kind of haven for us.

Don't know about most here, but I came to this site with the intention on hearing different views and learning from people who think similar to me. Other types are cool so long as their intelligently expressing their views. We you have SJ badgering going on, it's nice to hear one post and say "we do that because...." Also, I haven't noticed that a specific type spams more than the other. Seems they all do it.

[aether]

What do you mean?


We you have SJ badgering going on, it's nice to hear one post and say "we do that because...."

I've been on this board for a bit over two years now and I've always thought that it should be exclusively NT, specifically INTP. If I want another type perspective I can talk to family members, friends (the little that I have) or co-workers, someone on the street. I'm not saying that they (non-NT types) don't have anything to contribute, but sometimes we INTP's are too easygoing and we just let everyone in.

Also, we INTP's can learn from one another on how to deal with non-INTP's without having them be here. It's better to learn from other INTP's because they think like us and we can use their successful methods and be successful ourselves, that goes for other life issues/problems as well. If we have too many of the other types then we'd feel embarrased, limited by what we can say and the perspectives on how to deal with an issue might be biased as well.

Lastly, INTP's tend to be emotionaly stable and logical enough to have conversation about issues which other types may not be able to handle, and that is what has probably made this board successful, IMO.

[s0978]

There is a much higher possibility of groupthink as well as a disconnect from reality - an inaccurate view of the real picture, or life. zomg this is an internet forum.


Oftentimes I will stumble upon seemingly RIDICULOUS responses to problems or issues that INTP's may pose. [...]

I believe this to be the root of the problem. This is not a real simulation of life nor does it claim to be, and too much faith in the infallibility of the intelligence of the INTP's on this board is not only misplaced but dangerous. You could really screw up your life by following some of the advice (or lack thereof) given on this board and I hate to see it happen.

I'm not perfect, nor do I claim to be. I will call BS when I see it however.
What would be a "real simulation of life" -- why would such a conflation get made, why should that even be an agenda for a forum?

It's true that plenty of stupid things get said here and that the impressionable may get misguided. I don't see what point is in this post otherwise, and it's a rather vague/floppy/wave-hands-in-air critique. Incidentally, bullshit gets propagated all over the real world too- the responsibility to be thoughtful/critical/reflective of others' ideas/values, as well as one's own, will always ultimately rest on an individual.

[Xander]

The main drawbacks of INTPc seems to be the powermongering more than anything else. The petty politics and oh so serious attitudes. I wish more people would recognise the forum as more a bunch of posters than a site on the internet.

Non-INTPs certainly help because otherwise we'd only know of 50% of an INTP's personality. The additional insight is always welcome. Especially NFPs I find.

A board of all NT's would be rather bare and clinical. Not very entertaining.

Oh and personally I came here generally because I tend to be markedly different from most people in my inner thoughts and so I was directed to search such a place as this out on the net so I'd have some people to talk these things over with.

[Hustler]

The lack of diversity on INTPc. While there is variation among INTP's, the variation of personality is significantly lower than that between personality types in the external world, aka "real life". While I recognize INTPc is a haven for INTP's, there is real danger in not recognizing this board for what it is.
Lack of diversity means a significantly reduced variation in opinions and beliefs. There is a much higher possibility of groupthink as well as a disconnect from reality - an inaccurate view of the real picture, or life.
If you see this as a problem, why did you start this thread in a forum where only INTPs can respond?

[Hustler]

I will call BS when I see it however.

Yeah, good idea. I think I'll do the same:


Lack of diversity means a significantly reduced variation in opinions and beliefs. There is a much higher possibility of groupthink as well as a disconnect from reality - an inaccurate view of the real picture, or life.

Or, and this is the point of INTPc, it means filtering out the majority of ideas we consider to be mundane, tactit assumptions, boring, or otherwise unworthy of discussion, and zeroing in on very specific areas, those areas where we show our individual differences as INTPs. It's the same reason scientists discuss science with other scientists and not with cab drivers or bartenders. Do these scientists risk falling into the trap of groupthink just because they're not discussing their ideas with people outside the scientific community? Would they benefit by including non-scientists in all of their discussions? Of course not. What they're doing is acting in an efficient manner and discussing things with people who are going to understand them. Much as scientists share a body of knowledge derived from their studies that gives them the ability to discuss specific ideas among each other and benefit from restricting that discussion to people in their group, so too do we INTPs share a body of knowledge garnered from our particular way of thinking and our experiences in life and so too do we benefit by investigating our ideas with others who can give us the most informed feedback on subjects in this realm.


Oftentimes I will stumble upon seemingly RIDICULOUS responses to problems or issues that INTP's may pose.

This is, of course, a completely fallacious argument, because you can stumble upon ridiculous responses to anything anywhere on the internet. Try it. You'll see.


At first I shrugged it off because I understood that many responses were merely sarcastic jokes. And yet the sincerity of some replies gave away the posters' true intentions - they really believed in what they were saying. Perhaps the time spent on INTPc and inside their own heads had truly warped their understanding of reality. Sarcastic joke upon sarcastic joke eventually turned into mindless, unfair, and unjust generalizations about SJ's, E's, and whatever other type those that believed in their victimization felt like blaming for their problems.

Feel free to call BS when you see it, then, if you think INTPs are posting ridiculous ideas. The only way to combat groupthink and the propagation of foolish ideas is to call them out when you see them. You can complain about them indirectly here, but then, you've done little more than fall into the same trap you pointed out: posting ridiculous ideas that you seem to actually believe. Lucky for you, I'm here to call you out before this turns into some sort of groupthink fest that "there's something wrong with INTPc" and it's somehow related to the reasons you outlined. So you see what I've just done for you? When you see BS, you can go do that yourself.


I believe this to be the root of the problem. This is not a real simulation of life nor does it claim to be, and too much faith in the infallibility of the intelligence of the INTP's on this board is not only misplaced but dangerous. You could really screw up your life by following some of the advice (or lack thereof) given on this board and I hate to see it happen.

I believe the root of the problem is lazy thinking, not groupthink traps or lack of diversity. You yourself are just as guilty, because you're here complaining that other people are engaging in lazy thinking -- groupthink, ridiculous ideas -- and that it's killing INTPc, but you've made a ton of assumptions and your argument doesn't stand up to the tenets of reason. So, instead of offering up observations about a problem you perceive, why don't you critically analyze instances of this when they come up? Why don't you offer up your perspective when it differs from the assumed "group's" perspective or an apparently "ridiculous idea." The worth of a board is derived directly from its members. If you're too lazy or uninterested in giving what you apparently expect to get out of an internet forum (intelligent discourse), then you contribute little to the worth. It's all about exchanging ideas, which means you'll occasionally have to offer up your input beyond passive complaints such as this.

[Xander]

Or, and this is the point of INTPc, it means filtering out the majority of ideas we consider to be mundane, tactit assumptions, boring, or otherwise unworthy of discussion, and zeroing in on very specific areas, those areas where we show our individual differences as INTPs.
What? These areas?

Oh and personally I came here generally because I tend to be markedly different from most people in my inner thoughts and so I was directed to search such a place as this out on the net so I'd have some people to talk these things over with.
But what about this?

Non-INTPs certainly help because otherwise we'd only know of 50% of an INTP's personality. The additional insight is always welcome. Especially NFPs I find.


It's the same reason scientists discuss science with other scientists and not with cab drivers or bartenders. Do these scientists risk falling into the trap of groupthink just because they're not discussing their ideas with people outside the scientific community? Would they benefit by including non-scientists in all of their discussions? Of course not. What they're doing is acting in an efficient manner and discussing things with people who are going to understand them. Much as scientists share a body of knowledge derived from their studies that gives them the ability to discuss specific ideas among each other and benefit from restricting that discussion to people in their group,
You'd imagine so wouldn't you?

However it seems more to the point to say that they restrict such conversations because they are dealing with things beyond others comprehension. We are not. We are dealing with a perspective which others may not seem to comprehend but as many of the threads seem to be about INTPs trying to comprehend themselves then it's nice to have an outside view. Admittedly it's nice with the whole "me too"s but this will only get you so far.


so too do we INTPs share a body of knowledge garnered from our particular way of thinking and our experiences in life and so too do we benefit by investigating our ideas with others who can give us the most informed feedback on subjects in this realm.
Applying Johari's window to this it seems wrong. We will only see 50%. Even others exterior views of such things will be restricted by their similar starting points. So to garner real perspective on things you'd need people with different starting points too... such as those who aren't INTPs.

Feel free to call BS when you see it, then, if you think INTPs are posting ridiculous ideas. The only way to combat groupthink and the propagation of foolish ideas is to call them out when you see them. You can complain about them indirectly here, but then, you've done little more than fall into the same trap you pointed out: posting ridiculous ideas that you seem to actually believe. Lucky for you, I'm here to call you out before this turns into some sort of groupthink fest that "there's something wrong with INTPc" and it's somehow related to the reasons you outlined. So you see what I've just done for you? When you see BS, you can go do that yourself.
But you are one of the largest contributors to group thinking if only by your implied certainty. You push hard and can be hardline (especially for a P), ergo you have greater effect on the group as a whole.

If you really want to avoid group thinking then don't tell people what to do, would be my suggestion. To elicit their own perspectives and thoughts you may be better served by not being so hyper critical when an idea comes up which you don't agree with.


I believe the root of the problem is lazy thinking, not groupthink traps or lack of diversity. You yourself are just as guilty, because you're here complaining that other people are engaging in lazy thinking -- groupthink, ridiculous ideas -- and that it's killing INTPc, but you've made a ton of assumptions and your argument doesn't stand up to the tenets of reason. So, instead of offering up observations about a problem you perceive, why don't you critically analyze instances of this when they come up? Why don't you offer up your perspective when it differs from the assumed "group's" perspective or an apparently "ridiculous idea." The worth of a board is derived directly from its members. If you're too lazy or uninterested in giving what you apparently expect to get out of an internet forum (intelligent discourse), then you contribute little to the worth. It's all about exchanging ideas, which means you'll occasionally have to offer up your input beyond passive complaints such as this.
I'd say it's actually relateed back to INTPs not wanting to say what is expected and becoming overly obsessed with saying things to make them "individuals". This causes more threads and posts to crop up though I'd balance such thought with the concept that it is this obsession which is the main form of expression and that is what we are here to do, I guess.

[Park]

Airjaw/Xander, I don't understand the point of making such a big deal out of this. This is one forum out of 25 main forums where people have the option to post i.e. there are 24 other forums plus real life where we can, and for most part I suspect, get all the diversity we need.

[MacGuffin]

{snip}
Your entire argument is somehow based on the assumption we will ignore the rest of the forum now. :huh:

[Xander]

Airjaw/Xander, I don't understand the point of making such a big deal out of this. This is one forum out of 25 main forums where people have the option to post i.e. there are 24 other forums plus real life where we can, and for most part I suspect, get all the diversity we need.


Your entire argument is somehow based on the assumption we will ignore the rest of the forum now. :huh:
It's no big deal guys. I'm in full support of this little section and the other section ;)

I'm disagreeing with the philosophy and not the reality. The reality is that no section of this site (well except the admin/ mod bit but that's expected) is out of limits to anyone. So even if you do have a thread going here it is still very possible to get a non INTP perspective.

[Park]

I'm disagreeing with the philosophy and not the reality. The reality is that no section of this site (well except the admin/ mod bit but that's expected) is out of limits to anyone. So even if you do have a thread going here it is still very possible to get a non INTP perspective.

The alternative would be for some of the INTPs who have this with-draw desire to start up a competing INTP-only board which could potentially take away energy from this board. Stating the obvious but this is the internet, if people don't get their desires fullfilled by one board, they go elsewhere or start up new boards. If the INTPs who have this desire can have them fullfilled on this board without effecting the rest, I see no need to not try and satisfy them. Again, this is one forum out of 25 available...

Bah, we've been over this a bazillion times...like the dear doctor said - lets see how this cars runs...

[Jennywocky]

I've been on this board for a bit over two years now and I've always thought that it should be exclusively NT, specifically INTP. If I want another type perspective I can talk to family members, friends (the little that I have) or co-workers, someone on the street. I'm not saying that they (non-NT types) don't have anything to contribute, but sometimes we INTP's are too easygoing and we just let everyone in.

Also, we INTP's can learn from one another on how to deal with non-INTP's without having them be here. It's better to learn from other INTP's because they think like us and we can use their successful methods and be successful ourselves, that goes for other life issues/problems as well. If we have too many of the other types then we'd feel embarrased, limited by what we can say and the perspectives on how to deal with an issue might be biased as well.

Lastly, INTP's tend to be emotionaly stable and logical enough to have conversation about issues which other types may not be able to handle, and that is what has probably made this board successful, IMO.


Idealistically, sure.

But it doesn't seem to play out that way.

INTPs are open-minded at first, but we come into a situation having thought so much about it already that we actually are already settled on some things (albeit arriving there not through reliance on authority but reliance on a judging process... so it's still "our answer").

Still, this can make things a little rigid. And, also, we often have blind spots in PERCEPTION, even if the judging process is fairly solid. We either grew up in limited environments or we have constructed a palatable world around ourselves and thus limited our sources of input.

Don't remember whether your or another poster said it, but we come up with different conclusions not because of a different thinking process but because we begin with different information.

Other personality types don't need to impact our thinking process per se, but they can be extremely useful in jolting us / providing us NEW information that we did not perceive or did not consider in an appropriate context before.

So I'm fine with things as they are: A large majority of INTPs, with just enough other personality types who can keep things mixed up and prevent everything from calcifying negatively. We need the fresh input and minor but steady "shaking" in order to stay on our toes and not get stuck in a rut.

I have mixed feelings about the boards. I think there's some good discussion, and in some areas people are fairly open-minded. But in some areas, there's less discussion and more predetermined mindset involved in the conclusions being drawn. I don't think we can glamorize the INTP mindset, we're as human as everyone else. If the board truly gets homogenized, I know it's not going to satisfy my needs, nor do I think it is good long-term for anyone.

[Park]

Don't remember whether your or another poster said it, but we come up with different conclusions not because of a different thinking process but because we begin with different information.

Hmm, taken out of context, this is interesting.
I actually suspect that the thinking processes of one INTP is different from the other because it is influenced by the hierachy of our other functions.
I recently took this cognitive test (http://forums.intpcentral.com/showthread.php?t=3082), came out with NeTiNiFi as my four most developed functions and notished that others came out with a different hierachy than TiNeSiFe as well.

Not sure what to make of it.

[aether]

But it doesn't seem to play out that way.

INTPs are open-minded at first, but we come into a situation having thought so much about it already that we actually are already settled on some things (albeit arriving there not through reliance on authority but reliance on a judging process... so it's still "our answer").

Still, this can make things a little rigid. And, also, we often have blind spots in PERCEPTION, even if the judging process is fairly solid. We either grew up in limited environments or we have constructed a palatable world around ourselves and thus limited our sources of input.

Yeah, I did leave out the fact that we INTP's can be closed minded or get stuck thinking that we are right and everyone else's thoughts and opinions are not be considered.


Don't remember whether your or another poster said it, but we come up with different conclusions not because of a different thinking process but because we begin with different information.

Which means that INTP's are different within the subgroup which is a good thing and does contribute to diversify the views on this board. We're not that homogeneous after all.


Other personality types don't need to impact our thinking process per se, but they can be extremely useful in jolting us / providing us NEW information that we did not perceive or did not consider in an appropriate context before.

So I'm fine with things as they are: A large majority of INTPs, with just enough other personality types who can keep things mixed up and prevent everything from calcifying negatively. We need the fresh input and minor but steady "shaking" in order to stay on our toes and not get stuck in a rut.

I see your point but the problem that I see is that other personality types may not be here to do that, we just can't control them and make them do that for us either. There are exceptions with those who's spouses are INTP's, understand INTP's very well and/or offer help.


I have mixed feelings about the boards. I think there's some good discussion, and in some areas people are fairly open-minded. But in some areas, there's less discussion and more predetermined mindset involved in the conclusions being drawn. I don't think we can glamorize the INTP mindset, we're as human as everyone else. If the board truly gets homogenized, I know it's not going to satisfy my needs, nor do I think it is good long-term for anyone.

Which types of conversations do you think we there's less discussion and more predetermined mindset?

[aether]

Hmm, taken out of context, this is interesting.
I actually suspect that the thinking processes of one INTP is different from the other because it is influenced by the hierachy of our other functions.
I recently took this cognitive test (http://forums.intpcentral.com/showthread.php?t=3082), came out with NeTiNiFi as my four most developed functions and notished that others came out with a different hierachy than TiNeSiFe as well.

Not sure what to make of it.

I'm confused with the cognitive processes results as well. I've been too lazy to fully explore the problem but I did find out that being an INTP with a well developed Ne isn't such a bad thing. I don't know which other function contributes to objective intake of information, however.


INTPs who have developed their Extraverted Intuition to the extent that they regularly take in information in an objective fashion, rather than strictly to feed Introverted Thinking, will enjoy these very special gifts:

* They may be exceptionally intelligent, and make ground-breaking discoveries.
* With a well-developed understanding of their environment and the ability to act very quickly, they may good athletes.
* They're typically able to communicate their ideas more concisely than the average INTP without sacrificing accuracy.
* They understand the benefits of close relationships, and understand how to support and enhance these relationships.
* They see the value of principles that are not strictly logical
* They have attractive and compelling personalities, and are well-liked and accepted by most people.

[FranG]

Lastly, INTP's tend to be emotionaly stable and logical enough to have conversation about issues which other types may not be able to handle, and that is what has probably made this board successful, IMO.

I'm assuming the one's that would post here would be more open-minded sample than other non-INTPs who don't even give a damn about MBTI. Maybe this is a bad assumption but that's what I think.

[Park]

I'm confused with the cognitive processes results as well. I've been too lazy to fully explore the problem but I did find out that being an INTP with a well developed Ne isn't such a bad thing. I don't know which other function contributes to objective intake of information, however.

I had an interesting chat with another member yesterday who had some pretty cool guesses and ideas about this.
The cognitive test could explain very well why INTPs reason so differently from each other. According to the test, my four most developed functions are NeTiNiFi - that would make me an INTP (http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/mb-types/intp.htm)/ENTP (http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/mb-types/entp.htm)/ENFP (http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/mb-types/enfp.htm)combo. Your four most developed functions were NeNiTiTe (http://forums.intpcentral.com/showpost.php?p=203771&postcount=78) which would make you an INTP (http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/mb-types/intp.htm)/ENTP (http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/mb-types/entp.htm)and ENTJ (http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/mb-types/entj.htm) combo since Ni is their secondary function.

I would definetly be able to identify with the INTP/ENTP/ENFP combo. While identifying most with the INTP type the picture makes more sense combined with some typical ENTP/ENFP traits.

This would actually also partly explain the diversity which exist among INTPs.

[aether]

I had an interesting chat with another member yesterday who had some pretty cool guesses and ideas about this.
The cognitive test could explain very well why INTPs reason so differently from each other. According to the test, my four most developed functions are NeTiNiFi - that would make me an INTP (http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/mb-types/intp.htm)/ENTP (http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/mb-types/entp.htm)/ENFP (http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/mb-types/enfp.htm)combo. Your four most developed functions were NeNiTiTe (http://forums.intpcentral.com/showpost.php?p=203771&postcount=78) which would make you an INTP (http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/mb-types/intp.htm)/ENTP (http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/mb-types/entp.htm)and ENTJ (http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/mb-types/entj.htm) combo since Ni is their secondary function.

I would definetly be able to identify with the INTP/ENTP/ENFP combo. While identifying most with the INTP type the picture makes more sense combined with some typical ENTP/ENFP traits.

This would actually also partly explain the diversity which exist among INTPs.

Very interesting, thanks for figuring out mine.

[airjaw]

Yeah, good idea. I think I'll do the same:



Or, and this is the point of INTPc, it means filtering out the majority of ideas we consider to be mundane, tactit assumptions, boring, or otherwise unworthy of discussion, and zeroing in on very specific areas, those areas where we show our individual differences as INTPs. It's the same reason scientists discuss science with other scientists and not with cab drivers or bartenders. Do these scientists risk falling into the trap of groupthink just because they're not discussing their ideas with people outside the scientific community? Would they benefit by including non-scientists in all of their discussions? Of course not. What they're doing is acting in an efficient manner and discussing things with people who are going to understand them. Much as scientists share a body of knowledge derived from their studies that gives them the ability to discuss specific ideas among each other and benefit from restricting that discussion to people in their group, so too do we INTPs share a body of knowledge garnered from our particular way of thinking and our experiences in life and so too do we benefit by investigating our ideas with others who can give us the most informed feedback on subjects in this realm.



This is, of course, a completely fallacious argument, because you can stumble upon ridiculous responses to anything anywhere on the internet. Try it. You'll see.



Feel free to call BS when you see it, then, if you think INTPs are posting ridiculous ideas. The only way to combat groupthink and the propagation of foolish ideas is to call them out when you see them. You can complain about them indirectly here, but then, you've done little more than fall into the same trap you pointed out: posting ridiculous ideas that you seem to actually believe. Lucky for you, I'm here to call you out before this turns into some sort of groupthink fest that "there's something wrong with INTPc" and it's somehow related to the reasons you outlined. So you see what I've just done for you? When you see BS, you can go do that yourself.



I believe the root of the problem is lazy thinking, not groupthink traps or lack of diversity. You yourself are just as guilty, because you're here complaining that other people are engaging in lazy thinking -- groupthink, ridiculous ideas -- and that it's killing INTPc, but you've made a ton of assumptions and your argument doesn't stand up to the tenets of reason. So, instead of offering up observations about a problem you perceive, why don't you critically analyze instances of this when they come up? Why don't you offer up your perspective when it differs from the assumed "group's" perspective or an apparently "ridiculous idea." The worth of a board is derived directly from its members. If you're too lazy or uninterested in giving what you apparently expect to get out of an internet forum (intelligent discourse), then you contribute little to the worth. It's all about exchanging ideas, which means you'll occasionally have to offer up your input beyond passive complaints such as this.

Thanks for all the replies.

In regards to the last point you made, I do frequently offer my opinions and try to give people my perspective. It feels like an uphill battle however, like I am fighting entrenched ideas that some members of this board seem to propagate. Thus I felt that opening up a discussion about this sort of entrenchment might help "the cause" as people could perhaps detach themselves from this board and get a better understanding of it, like we are doing here.

INTPc is what it is and I love it for what it is. If I did not, I would not be here.
And like every other subject on this board, it is open to criticism and analysis. As for my posting this thread in the INTP-only forum, that was simply a lack of attention to detail on my part. I could just have easily posted it in any other forum, and probably should have.

edit :: actually I think this thread should be moved - it would perhaps serve its purposes better by being in one of the non INTP-only forums. It was purely accidental on my part in posting it in this forum.




I have mixed feelings about the boards. I think there's some good discussion, and in some areas people are fairly open-minded. But in some areas, there's less discussion and more predetermined mindset involved in the conclusions being drawn. I don't think we can glamorize the INTP mindset, we're as human as everyone else. If the board truly gets homogenized, I know it's not going to satisfy my needs, nor do I think it is good long-term for anyone.

I would have to agree with Fortunato, and this was basically my point to begin with. I was getting disillusioned with some of the predetermined mindsets. It's as if some people use MBTI as an excuse to be everything short of a racist. Sure I rant about ESTJ's too sometimes, mostly jokingly, but it seemed to me that the hatred and barriers between us and "them" was getting larger and larger for some people and I wanted to call attention to it, and perhaps offer some critical analysis of why this was so.