Australian flag banned at the Big Day Out

[Dunearhp]

THE Australian flag has been banned from this year's Big Day Out in Sydney after organisers branded it a "gang colour" and symbol of hate.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21095538-2,00.html

This concerns me on several levels. I know what they are trying to do, but I can't see anything positive coming from it.

[Jivinjeffjones]

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21095538-2,00.html

This concerns me on several levels. I know what they are trying to do, but I can't see anything positive coming from it.

Lefties.

[demagogic_schizoid]

calling the Australian flag a symbol of hate seems to me to be an expression of hate towards Australia. correct me if I'm wrong.

[zhang_bob]

Calling the Australian flag a symbol of hate seems to me to be an expression of hate towards Australia. correct me if I'm wrong.That's why politically correctness is bullshit.

[Jivinjeffjones]

The question has to be asked though, who the hell would take an Aussie flag to an Aussie rock concert? Why? It's not like it's an international sporting event or something.

[demagogic_schizoid]

The question has to be asked though, who the hell would take an Aussie flag to an Aussie rock concert? Why? It's not like it's an international sporting event or something.

I've been to gigs in England and Argentina. In both countries, people often take their national flags, not to defy some other country, just to wave the national colours as part of what to them is a celebration of their culture. Who the hell would oppose this?

[Jivinjeffjones]

I've been to gigs in England and Argentina. In both countries, people often take their national flags, not to defy some other country, just to wave the national colours as part of what to them is a celebration of their culture. Who the hell would oppose this?

Maybe it's cultural in those countries. But it isn't cultural in Australia. We're not flag wavers unless it's an international sporting event, and even then we feel pretty stupid.

[demagogic_schizoid]

well maybe. I still think it's stupid to ban it.

[C.J.Woolf]

The symbolism of the gesture makes me wonder: Do the flag-banners want to disassociate themselves from Australia? I think that would be letting the assholes win.

It strikes a nerve in me. Here in the US the conservatives and reactionaries love to wrap themselves in the flag and call themselves "real Americans", implying that anyone they disagree with are not. To them I say, it's my country too.

Don't let the assholes claim your country -- or your flag -- for themselves.

[meshou]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Cronulla_riots

Also, last year at the Big Day Out, a bunch of drunk idiots were wandering around demanding that people pledge allegience to the Australian flag. The people who hesitated or refused got the shit beat out of them.

You'd think beating the shit out of middle easterners would be more Un-Australian than a company attempting to limit voilence at its own damn event, but apparently I'm mistaken.

Edit: They're also not confiscating flags, they're asking people to leave them at home.

This is so fucking stupid.

[Jivinjeffjones]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Cronulla_riots

Also, last year at the Big Day Out, a bunch of drunk idiots were wandering around demanding that people pledge allegience to the Australian flag. The people who hesitated or refused got the shit beat out of them.

You'd think beating the shit out of middle easterners would be more Un-Australian than a company attempting to limit voilence at its own damn event, but apparently I'm mistaken.

Edit: They're also not confiscating flags, they're asking people to leave them at home.

This is so fucking stupid.

In this case I guess I'm okay with them asking that Aussie flags be left behind. Not that that'll keep the fidiots out. It's unAustralian to wave a flag unless said flag designates your sporting allegiance.

As for the Cronulla riots, there's a helluva lot behind that story that didnt make the papers.

[Deckard]

The question has to be asked though, who the hell would take an Aussie flag to an Aussie rock concert? Why? It's not like it's an international sporting event or something.
Ya know, i was wondering the same thing yesterday at the BDO when The Butterfly Effect singer came on to the stage waving this huge flag trying to pump the crowd up. I didn't know wtf he was thinking, but it makes rather more sense now. It's kind of ironic when "sticking it to the man" involves waving your country's flag.

[Jivinjeffjones]

It's kind of ironic when "sticking it to the man" involves waving your country's flag.

Good call.

[HackerX]

I like this quote:
"If they have got a security problem, they need to deal with that, not with the flag. The flag is a symbol of unity,"

If you tell Australians that we can't wave our flag, that's exactly what you'll get us doing

[MasterMerk]

It's a stupid move. How could they NOT know the media would have a field day with that? People are going to be violent and the flag is just an excuse. You always deal with the violence first. I think now they've created a spectacle that's just going to exacerbate the issue.

[Dunearhp]

My concern is that by doing this they have made it an issue again. Alan Jones (radio shock jock) is probably using it to do his shit stirring act again.

If they had done nothing then it probably would have passed without incident. Anyone trying the "pledge allegiance" bullshit would have found themselves at the thin end of the wedge after they made themselves so unpopular last year.
By banning the flag they will be a wronged party. It muddies the issue and keeps this problem alive.

The Big Day Out organizer cited the violence between Serbian and Croatian fans at the Australian open as one of his reasons for this. He doesn't seem to realise that these two groups have been at each others throats for longer than living memory. When my mother came to australia, the unit at the immigration hostel her family stayed at had a Serbian family on one side and a Croation Family on the other. They used to have knife fights in front of my mum's unit. This conflict is of only of glancing relevance to the issues surrounding the Cronulla riots.

[demagogic_schizoid]

I like this quote:
"If they have got a security problem, they need to deal with that, not with the flag. The flag is a symbol of unity,"

If you tell Australians that we can't wave our flag, that's exactly what you'll get us doing

well said.

Jivinjeffjones, your own definition of what is un-Australian seems pretty damn intolerant to me, don't you realise that times change?

[Jivinjeffjones]

well said.

Jivinjeffjones, your own definition of what is un-Australian seems pretty damn intolerant to me, don't you realise that times change?

Where are you from?

[demagogic_schizoid]

London

[Jivinjeffjones]

And your knowledge of Australian culture is derived from...?

[demagogic_schizoid]

look, some people want to wave the flag, just because you are Australian doesn't mean you get to decide what is australian behaviour and what is "un-australian". You tell me that aussies don't like waving the flag, but this is clearly a lie, because if this was the case it wouldn't be an issue. Put simply, I don't need to know about Australian culture to know that you aren't making any sense (though I probably know more than you think I know).

[Deckard]

look, some people want to wave the flag, just because you are Australian doesn't mean you get to decide what is australian behaviour and what is "un-australian". You tell me that aussies don't like waving the flag, but this is clearly a lie, because if this was the case it wouldn't be an issue. Put simply, I don't need to know about Australian culture to know that you aren't making any sense (though I probably know more than you think I know).
Maybe un-australian is the wrong word, but jjj is right in that we just don't have that flag-waving patriotism other than when a sports team (or hating the Lebanese) incites it. Of course, that's generalising and there's always exceptions, but on the whole it's pretty accurate.

[CoHo]

A simple tactic to galvanize public opinion is to do something so stupid that the average person feels obligated to take note.

Marketer "Yeah, see this flag, it's a symbol of hate so don't bring it"

Public "I'll show you! I'll bring the flag and I won't cause any problems"

Marketer "Wow, you guys just showed me"

[zhang_bob]

Maybe un-australian is the wrong word, but jjj is right in that we just don't have that flag-waving patriotism other than when a sports team (or hating the Lebanese) incites it. Of course, that's generalising and there's always exceptions, but on the whole it's pretty accurate.That is pretty much the same here. For example, if you waved the Union flag people would think you are a Nazi. And St George's Cross is only really used in England for football (soccer) inspired nationalism.

[Jivinjeffjones]

look, some people want to wave the flag, just because you are Australian doesn't mean you get to decide what is australian behaviour and what is "un-australian". You tell me that aussies don't like waving the flag, but this is clearly a lie, because if this was the case it wouldn't be an issue. Put simply, I don't need to know about Australian culture to know that you aren't making any sense (though I probably know more than you think I know).

I could easily drive 2000 km without seeing an Australian flag. I am not prescribing Australian behaviour when it comes to flags, I'm describing it. By "un-Australian" I don't mean that it violates core Aussie values, I mean that it happens relatively rarely in Australia. Not once at a concert I've ever been to. Patriotism is generally considered faux-pas UNLESS you are travelling overseas (especially through Europe). I couldn't believe how many American flags I saw travelling through America.

Apologies if my post was unclear, pedagogic_schizoid.

[demagogic_schizoid]

That is pretty much the same here. For example, if you waved the Union flag people would think you are a Nazi. And St George's Cross is only really used in England for football (soccer) inspired nationalism.

what are you saying? where I live there are England flags flying from cars and windows all year round (but then again they are all racist white trash).

[zhang_bob]

what are you saying? where I live there are England flags flying from cars and windows all year round (but then again they are all racist white trash).

No, what I am saying is people in England don't fly flags from cars and windows all year round. People in the Americas are generally more nationalistic than the rest of the world. People in generally don't fly flags here much and when they do it is for special occasion, what flag you use here has more political meaning than most countries. Most people in England don't fly the St George's Cross, because they are unionists. And when we do use the St George's Cross it is only really used for team sport when we play as a single nation, to show our "inspired nationalism" or friendly rivalry over the home nations. Also, we only really use the Union flag for the Olympic Games, tennis and royal affairs. Therefore, I could easily drive from one side of England to the other without seeing an St George's Cross or a Union flag.

What I am saying in short is Australia does not sound much different to here in regard to their view of national flags, by what Jivinjeffjones and Deckard said.

[demagogic_schizoid]

tha'ts not true. where I live there are st.george flags all year round. but that's because they are all racist whie trash.

did you get it this time?

[zhang_bob]

tha'ts not true. where I live there are st.george flags all year round. but that's because they are all racist whie trash.

did you get it this time?:huh: Maybe if you typed in English, I would.

[demagogic_schizoid]

that was harsh but mine was true.