forget about the world you're going to be okay...

[melancholeric]

(removed)
It took longer than a few minutes....

[Serotonin]

That sure is a harrrd road you trod 'm' boyo. Well done for surviving. Hope things get better for you soon.

[melancholeric]

Oh I should've said that things got way better since I moved away from my parents. For the last few years I've been quite fine. Just that I still have to go through these things...

[mgb]

ahhh, takes me back.

Its funny about your mom (not funny haa haa). I had a tough time with my father (he sued me a little over a year ago for $130,000, if that gives you any indication of how life was growing up). But I realized pretty recently that my mom was a big part of a lot of the problems. I finally figured out that she spent years doing what was best for her and sometimes extending the umbrella of protection to my sister and I. In doing so she also made sure that we knew what she was doing so she would always be able to take credit for protecting us, even though the "protection" she offered was far from adequate. When I was getting sued she helped me with the $3000 retainer with the lawyers but made sure I knew that she would never testify on my behalf. I got some support, but not enough.

Both my parents are SJs. I don't have much contact with either parent any more (zero with my dad, the Plaintiff, he might as well be dead, in fact, I can't wait until he is). Life is a lot easier. I realized that I don't owe them anything just because we are family and I won't be guilted into having relationships with them that aren't right for me.

[ApeTheDog]

I recognise what you're doing. You think a lot of this mess is somehow your fault, and you want to figure out what you did wrong, don't you?

What is it you expect to accomplish with this train of thoughts? Why not dismiss this line of thinking? Why should you try to figure everybody out?

[melancholeric]

I recognise what you're doing. You think a lot of this mess is somehow your fault, and you want to figure out what you did wrong, don't you?

What is it you expect to accomplish with this train of thoughts? Why not dismiss this line of thinking? Why should you try to figure everybody out?
Who me? No. I don't think this my fault at all. (Mostly anyway. I made some stupid mistakes,yes.)
I think I've been in denial on how much those things have affected me. I guess I'll just have to get over this.

[mgb]

Who me? No. I don't think this my fault at all. (Mostly anyway. I made some stupid mistakes,yes.)
I think I've been in denial on how much those things have affected me. I guess I'll just have to get over this.

It's hard to call them mistakes. I realized a little over a year ago that I had expectations about my parents that they were always looking out for my best interests (always reinforced by them). I think it took me a long time to realize that they are extremely self interested and I was not central to their lives but a periphery.

I can't even say that is my fault...even more the mistakes I made were a product of the information I got from them (namely that I was really important to them and they looked out for me), so I was making decisions without all the facts.

I suppose I was in denial a bit too. Its taking a long time to work through it because I don't think I can ever get over it. I also feel like I don't have a lot of problems that I should...I don't have trust issues or anything like that...I guess it just opened up a lot of ideas that I didn't know were there...

Not that I am trying to steal your thunder here melancholeric, just add to your perspective.

[Boneca]

Unfortunately I have nothing useful to say to you, but I just wanted to say that I read your post and thought about it.

I have been bullied, but I have always had at least one friend. Imagining having none at all makes me feel sick. And adding such an unstable home situation to that, my limit of imagining is reached. According to your previous posts, you still seem fairly sane and coherent, so I must say I'm deeply impressed with your coping skills.

Anyway, I think the best thing you did was to move away. Moving to a different city (or even country) presents a wonderful way to start a new life. But it's also important to move on in a more abstract sense. Your family isn't you, and while your upbringing affects you a lot, it doesn't define who you are.
But you probably know this already, since you are on this forum.

[booyalab]

My parents have always been extremely controlling and manipulative. They single-handedly ruined my last relationship. For now, I'm just lying low while I save up enough money for a car, then I'll try to only go home to sleep so I can avoid them for as long as I can and save up money to move back into the city.

[melancholeric]

Unfortunately I have nothing useful to say to you, but I just wanted to say that I read your post and thought about it.

I have been bullied, but I have always had at least one friend. Imagining having none at all makes me feel sick. And adding such an unstable home situation to that, my limit of imagining is reached. According to your previous posts, you still seem fairly sane and coherent, so I must say I'm deeply impressed with your coping skills.

Anyway, I think the best thing you did was to move away. Moving to a different city (or even country) presents a wonderful way to start a new life. But it's also important to move on in a more abstract sense. Your family isn't you, and while your upbringing affects you a lot, it doesn't define who you are.
But you probably know this already, since you are on this forum.
Um, I still live in the same town with them, about 10 km away. I wasn't very clear on this, and it's not relevant. In a few months I'll be gone anyway. As for my sanity, i'm not sure about that really...

And the way I can talk about this fairly openly and laugh about it strikes me as if I am in denial. (Look at my father. Then mother. And I'm the one who ends up hospitalized. :rofl: )

It has taken ten years from my sister to cope, and she said that one can't really get fully through these things. Same issues have to faced over and over again and again when ones life changes eg new relationship. Now I'm scared.

[mgb]

Its unfortunate the amount of power we give to our parents, especially when they abuse it so much.

[Boneca]

Um, I still live in the same town with them, about 10 km away. I wasn't very clear on this, and it's not relevant. In a few months I'll be gone anyway. As for my sanity, i'm not sure about that really... Ah, sorry. Then, it was the best thing you should have done...;) You say you'll be gone, does that mean that you are moving to a different city?


And the way I can talk about this fairly openly and laugh about it strikes me as if I am in denial. (Look at my father. Then mother. And I'm the one who ends up hospitalized. :rofl: ) You know, the fact that you can laugh at it is in my opinion a sign of mental health. I mean, what else can you do, just sit around and cry? Bang your head against a wall repeatedly?
I'd say, try to make this into a strength instead of letting it pull you down. You know now you have enduring power, and your life can only get better from here. That gives you an advantage over wimps like me who have no idea how to handle hard times.

[melancholeric]

Its unfortunate the amount of power we give to our parents, especially when they abuse it so much.
You know, there are times I think getting children is something not everyone should be allowed to do. Parenting is not an easy task, it actually requires sane, healthy individuals.



Ah, sorry. Then, it was the best thing you should have done... You say you'll be gone, does that mean that you are moving to a different city?
I meant moving to another city. What'd you think, that I'd kill myself away or something? (Not going to happen.)


You know, the fact that you can laugh at it is in my opinion a sign of mental health. I mean, what else can you do, just sit around and cry? Bang your head against a wall repeatedly?
But then I find myself thinking that those things didn't affect me nearly as much as they should have. (On the other hand, I did feel physically sick when I wrote that..)
But, in a casual conversation, as if talking about the weather: "You know, I actually tried to kill my father once." Doesn't strike me as healthy.. (Ok, I wouldn't have killed him. It was close, but I figured his corpse wouldn't have gone well with the furniture... :rofl: )


I'd say, try to make this into a strength instead of letting it pull you down. You know now you have enduring power, and your life can only get better from here. That gives you an advantage over wimps like me who have no idea how to handle hard times.
At times I wonder what it would have felt like to have led a "normal" life.
And whenever someone says that things can only get better, it usually gets worse. ;)

[Boneca]

But then I find myself thinking that those things didn't affect me nearly as much as they should have. (On the other hand, I did feel physically sick when I wrote that..)
But, in a casual conversation, as if talking about the weather: "You know, I actually tried to kill my father once." Doesn't strike me as healthy.. (Ok, I wouldn't have killed him. It was close, but I figured his corpse wouldn't have gone well with the furniture... :rofl: )Compared to what other people on here write (*cough*Shai Gar*cough*), you still seem pretty balanced. But then again, you might be a real psycho in real life, what do I know? ;)


And whenever someone says that things can only get better, it usually gets worse. ;)Wasn't it you who said that pessimism was bad and that Murphy's law could be a self-fulfilling prophecy?

[melancholeric]

I figured i should remove this before that shai 'tard gets online... (and before anyone quotes the entire message)
But then, why would I care, it's not like i'd see what interesting things he might have to say...

[Solo]

I always say what doesn't kill you makes you wish you were dead(just trying to lighten the mood)

On a more serious note(please don't take this the wrong way) going through hardship like yours can be a good thing. In the words of Christopher Tidus "when the shit is about to hit the fan you know to move out of the way"

I don't know you but from your posts you seem like you have retained sanity very well. I have come from a "normal" family and I don't know what I would do when put in your situation or in one similar. My parents have tried to make my life better by getting rid of all the bad things in life. Thanks to them when bad things happen I will be completely unprepared. I'm not prepared for the real world. I've never experienced the real world. You have experienced many things which will be incredibly important in your life. If there is any good in this situation it would be the knowledge you have gained.

[Biff_Loman]

You know, there are times I think getting children is something not everyone should be allowed to do. Parenting is not an easy task, it actually requires sane, healthy individuals.

My wife and I are divided on whether we should have children if things work out between us. Although neither one of us has a personality disorder, there's something about our relationship that is sufficiently, uh, "off" to make us wonder how happy our children would be having us as parents.

[mgb]

My wife and I are divided on whether we should have children if things work out between us. Although neither one of us has a personality disorder, there's something about our relationship that is sufficiently, uh, "off" to make us wonder how happy our children would be having us as parents.

At least you talk about it before you knock her up. That should give you a point right there.

[melancholeric]

Compared to what other people on here write (*cough*Shai Gar*cough*), you still seem pretty balanced. But then again, you might be a real psycho in real life, what do I know? ;)

Wasn't it you who said that pessimism was bad and that Murphy's law could be a self-fulfilling prophecy?
um, I think i have some minor issues still, but i can't tell whether those "issues" are natural or umm nurtural (is that a word?)
Fundamentally, I'm an optimist. Things just can't get that bad that I couldn't take it. (We'll see...:rofl: )


I always say what doesn't kill you makes you wish you were dead(just trying to lighten the mood)
That what does not kill hurts like hell.
That what does not kill postpones the inevitable.

[mgb]

I figured i should remove this before that shai 'tard gets online... (and before anyone quotes the entire message)
But then, why would I care, it's not like i'd see what interesting things he might have to say...

I think we scared him off *looks over shoulder*

[Solo]

I hope so. I was really getting tired of him.

[melancholeric]

"um, I think i have some minor issues still, but i can't tell whether those "issues" are natural or umm nurtural (is that a word?)"

On a second thought, those "issues" can be explained by MBTI. Nothing but some less desirable traits of the INTP.

/me is completely content to see this going offtopic....
Maybe he is finally banned?

[Boneca]

On a second thought, those "issues" can be explained by MBTI. Nothing but some less desirable traits of the INTP. Now that is something that I can imagine. :P

Don't you think Mr. Genius gave up because we were too stupid to help him take over the world? Or perhaps it was because I failed to send him those nude pictures he asked for...either way, I'm not too sad.

[melancholeric]

His last post was today, so he might still be around. One can only hope. Well I don't mind, he's been on my ignore list for the last few days so....

(But he did call me a bastard once. My innermost feelings were deeply hurt.)

[Boneca]

(But he did call me a bastard once. My innermost feelings were deeply hurt.)Aw. Now I feel really sorry for you. *wipes tear*

[mgb]

Now that is something that I can imagine. :P

Don't you think Mr. Genius gave up because we were too stupid to help him take over the world? Or perhaps it was because I failed to send him those nude pictures he asked for...either way, I'm not too sad.

Are you kdding me? He asked you for nude pictures?

I think the shotgun to the throat comment on his thread about emotional dependant morons on #intp was the kicker...who says stuff like that? And whose collective body of "works" is like that? Maybe its time to start the poll, see how the night goes....

[Biff_Loman]

[Thoughts on Shai Gar]I thought he provides an interesting example of how much variety there is within a given type. I am also amused by his scattergun misanthropy.

I am assuming that he is really an INTP. Sure, it's hard or completely impossible to tell via a message board, but I'll take him at his word.

Actually, thinking about him makes me want to contribute to his mayor-killing thread.[/Thoughts on Shai Gar]

Melancholeric,

I, for one, will say that sometimes we just need to share. Lord knows I spill my guts all over this board, and it feels good. It's just necessary, sometimes, to express my thoughts in a completely objective fashion.

It seems that everyone I talk to in the real world gets an edited version of my life. Either I don't want them to know that I am no longer a Christian (parents, family), or I don't want them to know about my wife's and my unusual sexual habits, or I don't want them to know about my love for my wife's best friend. It's like I'm constantly telling 95% of the story, leaving out whatever chunk would totally offend the other person.

It is excellent to simply "tell it like it is." I don't know how much the rest of you care, or how much you take away from it. Sometimes I think that I serve more as a cautionary example than anything. And yet I need to tell; therefore, I do.

Do what you have to do, say what you have to say.

[Dman]

My two cents, for what it's worth:

Ironically, a lot of people I have come into contact over the years that had difficult childhoods such as your own are more well-balanced (eventually) than others. I don't think that's the case in hardcore abuse situations, but in those similar to yours. I think the fact that you have acknowledged the situation for what it was speaks volumes about your maturity and mental health. I believe that by itself states that you have good, strong mental health, regardless of whether or not the experiences were good or bad.

Understanding your own situation means you can begin to figure out your own feelings and behaviors and realize that the parts about yourself you don’t like, you have the power to change, because it’s a product of your environment - not who your true self is.

It’s the people who never acknowledge their situations, who live in denial or refuse to reconcile their issues, who end up being mental. Your desire to throw it out for feedback is simply part of that healing/strengthening process – you’ve pretty much figured it out in your head, now you want confirmation that despite all the crap, you’re Ok in other’s minds as well. Even if some people have had it worse, or better (someone always has it worse or better) it still feels good to tell someone about it once in a while, especially somewhat anonymously.

Sounds like rather than roll-over and become a deadbeat, which you easily could have done (I probably would have) you had the strength and character to overcome and make a man out of yourself. I have a lot of respect for someone who can do that in a situation such as yours.

Just my humble opinion.

[melancholeric]

It?s the people who never acknowledge their situations, who live in denial or refuse to reconcile their issues, who end up being mental.

That is what makes my father the case (yes, a case) he is. He didn't have it easy either, but he's completely unable to see that he might have done anything wrong or analyze his own behaviour, motives or feelings.

That's also the crucial difference between us, I've been watching out for any trace that would hint that I'm becoming similar to him since I was 10-12. At this point I'm not the least bit worried about that.

[melancholeric]

[Thoughts on Shai Gar]I thought he provides an interesting example of how much variety there is within a given type. I am also amused by his scattergun misanthropy.

I am assuming that he is really an INTP. Sure, it's hard or completely impossible to tell via a message board, but I'll take him at his word.

Actually, thinking about him makes me want to contribute to his mayor-killing thread.[/Thoughts on Shai Gar]
He's a troll, INTP or not. Do you know what they do to trolls around here where I live?
I did have some amusing moments with him though... (the unabomber and tsunami threads... :rofl: )


Sometimes I think that I serve more as a cautionary example than anything.

That cautionary tale (http://www.despair.com/mis24x30prin.html) thing cracked me up big time....
reminded me of Jung's description of INTJ: "they are described as good teachers who teach not with words but with their life. "

[mgb]

That is what makes my father the case (yes, a case) he is. He didn't have it easy either, but he's completely unable to see that he might have done anything wrong or analyze his own behaviour, motives or feelings.

That's also the crucial difference between us, I've been watching out for any trace that would hint that I'm becoming similar to him since I was 10-12. At this point I'm not the least bit worried about that.

I think we have the same father. There is some evidence that mine uses his stories about the divorce and how no one in the family talks to him to get sympathy on his online dates.

[Shai Gar]

I think the shotgun to the throat comment on his thread about emotional dependant morons on #intp was the kicker...
that was said tounge in cheek, but think what you will.


[Thoughts on Shai Gar]I thought he provides an interesting example of how much variety there is within a given type. I am also amused by his scattergun misanthropy. thank you. i always say that the key to staying young is to always stay amused and find amusement in everything you dont like.


I am assuming that he is really an INTP. Sure, it's hard or completely impossible to tell via a message board, but I'll take him at his word. i am, and it is good to take me at my word. i will lie and break any oath, but i will never cross my word if i give it.


Actually, thinking about him makes me want to contribute to his mayor-killing thread.[/Thoughts on Shai Gar] cool, actually that thread was dreamed up by a friend of mine asking me that question. i thought i should throw it in the pub and let anyone else mull over it if they would

[melancholeric]

For a moment i was tempted to remove the local troll from my ignore list, but I couldn't be bothered...

The healing process seems to go in cycles. I hadn't thought of these things much for the last ~2 years, and the idea of writing that (and eventually posting it here) came completely out of the blue. Since then I've thought of that a lot, been reading healingeagle.net, whatnot. (Oddly enough, I've never before had any interest to healingeagle . Too sappy I guess.) Too bad for you folks that I had to go through this her and now. I'd better register to the INFP forum before I need a shrink again...
That being said, it took me a while to realize how helpful this thread was (or has been) so far.

I think anyone would have learned to cope in those situations. Things happened gradually, I adapted step by step, never actually noticing how fucked up it was. Everything was the way it was, clear and simple.

[mgb]

I'd better register to the INFP forum before I need a shrink again...


Wow, that has to a much cheaper way of going about it.

My shrink is an INFP, haa haa.

It is nice to air this stuff out though. And it is funny how this stuff just pops into your head one day.

[Boneca]

The healing process seems to go in cycles. I hadn't thought of these things much for the last ~2 years, and the idea of writing that (and eventually posting it here) came completely out of the blue. Since then I've thought of that a lot, been reading healingeagle.net, whatnot. (Oddly enough, I've never before had any interest to healingeagle . Too sappy I guess.) Too bad for you folks that I had to go through this her and now. I'd better register to the INFP forum before I need a shrink again...
That being said, it took me a while to realize how helpful this thread was (or has been) so far. It is good to have to formulate your thoughts so that other people can understand you. That way, you yourself also get your problems summed up in a comprehensible form, which might help you deal with them.
I read a bit on healingeagle.net, and a lot of it makes sense (if you just ignore the parts that are too mushy). Still, that site is impersonal - posting on a forum gives you much more personal feedback (even though it is from people who have no similar experiences). The methods are complementary and both important, I think.
And don't apologize to us - nobody forces the people on this forum to read your thread, much less reply to it.


I think anyone would have learned to cope in those situations. Things happened gradually, I adapted step by step, never actually noticing how fucked up it was. Everything was the way it was, clear and simple.Most people are a lot stronger than they think. Adaptability, survival instinct and whatnot - it's what has made our species survive. But that fact does in no way diminish your struggle, and you shouldn't use it to devalue yourself. The important thing is that you survived it.

It is actually hard to write these replies...it seems I can't put all the things I want to say in words. Please ignore me if you find me offensive in any way.

[melancholeric]

It is good to have to formulate your thoughts so that other people can understand you. That way, you yourself also get your problems summed up in a comprehensible form, which might help you deal with them.
I read a bit on healingeagle.net, and a lot of it makes sense (if you just ignore the parts that are too mushy). Still, that site is impersonal - posting on a forum gives you much more personal feedback (even though it is from people who have no similar experiences). The methods are complementary and both important, I think.
And barring the occasional religious bullshit. (on the other hand, religion can be quite effective in coping. "God is a concept by which we measure our pain".)

The articles about emotional dependancy certainly explained a lot about my mother.

And don't apologize to us - nobody forces the people on this forum to read your thread, much less reply to it.
quote from an article (http://healingeagle.net/Eng/Txt/Things1.html) at healingeagle:

As a child, I was often invisible and absent. Even when present, I behaved in ways that kept me invisible. I quietly played my own plays and concentrated on my own affairs....
As adult, I often resorted to invisibility. My fundamental thinking was that I don't want to disturb others. It became a model of life for me. Children of alcoholics often think that they are different from others and that they are a burden to others. We learned that life is serious.....

There you have it. Sorry to have disturbed you... :)
I had already thought my past contributed to the I and P, now it seems obvious.


Most people are a lot stronger than they think. Adaptability, survival instinct and whatnot - it's what has made our species survive. But that fact does in no way diminish your struggle, and you shouldn't use it to devalue yourself. The important thing is that you survived it.
Then again, people have been driven over the edge for the most ridiculous reasons.
Ultimately I think I survived better than my siblings, considering the current situations. They're soing fine, but after a lot shattered dreams, dysfunctional relationships, substance abuse, you name it.


It is actually hard to write these replies...it seems I can't put all the things I want to say in words. Please ignore me if you find me offensive in any way.
Uh, you lost me there. What exactly in your posts could be considered offensive?

[Boneca]

Then again, people have been driven over the edge for the most ridiculous reasons.(A bit off-topic, but anyway) The reasons might not have seemed ridiculous to them. Magnification of minor issues is common among depressed people for example.


Ultimately I think I survived better than my siblings, considering the current situations. They're soing fine, but after a lot shattered dreams, dysfunctional relationships, substance abuse, you name it.Perhaps it's good that you have older siblings. Then you can look at them, and maybe take a shortcut to where they are now?
You'd still need to process your feelings about this whole stuff, but you can avoid doing the same mistakes in terms of relationships and drug abuse.


There you have it. Sorry to have disturbed you... :)
I had already thought my past contributed to the I and P, now it seems obvious.
...
Uh, you lost me there. What exactly in your posts could be considered offensive?These things are related. I also hate the thought of disturbing people or making a nuisance of myself (even though that has nothing to do with abuse in my case). I am afraid of offending you for pretending to understand you when I maybe don't, and for posting in a sensitive topic when it might be better if I hadn't.

Actually, I might regret my posts tomorrow, but it seems I'm stuck in therapist-mode today. My mano-depressive best friend called me this morning, totally hysterical, and told me her on-off boyfriend has secretly married another girl behind her back...crazy story.
The interesting difference is that while she doesn't listen at all to me (ESFP..:rolleyes: ), you respond and actually make sense.

[melancholeric]

(A bit off-topic, but anyway) The reasons might not have seemed ridiculous to them. Magnification of minor issues is common among depressed people for example.
That's just lacking in perspective. Which is caused by depression. I've been there, I know it'll pass by time. Hell, I've been close to it quite a few times, somehow alway making it alive. Now I can't imagine thing getting that bad as long as I'm alive.


Perhaps it's good that you have older siblings. Then you can look at them, and maybe take a shortcut to where they are now?
You'd still need to process your feelings about this whole stuff, but you can avoid doing the same mistakes in terms of relationships and drug abuse.
It is good. Either they serve as cautionary examples or healers. (The ENFP I mentioned somewhere. The only person in my immediate family with whom I can actually communicate, instead of talking about the weather.)


These things are related. I also hate the thought of disturbing people or making a nuisance of myself (even though that has nothing to do with abuse in my case). I am afraid of offending you for pretending to understand you when I maybe don't, and for posting in a sensitive topic when it might be better if I hadn't.
If you are pretending anything, you're doing it well. I haven't talked about these issues at this length and depth with many people, (and don't ask what makes me do it here) and I just lost my point. Not many people could even try to understand. (Nor pretend.)


Actually, I might regret my posts tomorrow, but it seems I'm stuck in therapist-mode today. My mano-depressive best friend called me this morning, totally hysterical, and told me her on-off boyfriend has secretly married another girl behind her back...crazy story.
The interesting difference is that while she doesn't listen at all to me (ESFP..:rolleyes: ), you respond and actually make sense.
:rofl: Do you think I haven't regretted my posts in this thread? But at 400+ views and ~40 replies, there's no reason to remove them either...

I'm making sense at 3:47 AM? Interesting.

[melancholeric]

Then again, listening and making sense might be INTP's strong points. That's why I didn't post this to an ESFP forum....