Neolithic Hugging ...

[omnirook]

Below is a link to a news story about a pair of Neolithic skeletons unearthed in Mantua, Italy on 6 February, 2007. A young couple, most probably a male and a female, died in an embrace that archeologists deem genuine. The definite sexes of the pair and the cause of death have yet to be determined.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6338751.stm

Ideas? Doomed lovers? Lovers being punished? Ritual suicide? What else?

[outmywindow]

Not to completely ruin the romantic mood (and not to say that it couldn't be the case), but maybe they were huddling together due to being cold -- cold enough to eventually cause unconsciousness and then death. It wasn't stated if the tools found with them were obviously laid out in an organized, ritualistic manner, or if they were just there as if they'd been put down/dropped. In other words, is this an actual burial, or just a location of spontaneous death?

[dunee]

Well obviously we can't make much of an educated guess without more info... such as the soil morphology where the archaeologists were digging, etc. (not interesting to public maybe but would give much more info to narrow it down).

Could have been something doomed. Not sure how it could be ritual suicide, they'd have to have been arranged just so, and it'd be hard to do when they're both dead. It doesn't seem like there are any suicide tools about though besides the possible knife. And you need one hand to stab.

Or maybe they froze to death one winter night in the midst of nowhere and later their skeletons were preserved by a mudslide!

[Toonia]

That is deeply romantic.

[Wolf]

I like the options outmywindow and dune_E have suggested, but lacking the ability to review the site ourselves, there's no way to test the theories.

I'd say their options are more plausible than the others put forth so-far.

[omnirook]

Well obviously we can't make much of an educated guess without more info... such as the soil morphology where the archaeologists were digging, etc. (not interesting to public maybe but would give much more info to narrow it down).

Could have been something doomed. Not sure how it could be ritual suicide, they'd have to have been arranged just so, and it'd be hard to do when they're both dead. It doesn't seem like there are any suicide tools about though besides the possible knife. And you need one hand to stab.

Or maybe they froze to death one winter night in the midst of nowhere and later their skeletons were preserved by a mudslide!

poison

[HilbertSpace]

Meh. Why is anyone surprised - there were Italians.

Here's one on Neolithic Englishmen (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/4760643.stm)

Not to fault my anthropologist brothers from another mother, but - c'mon - these guys aren't that old. They're Homo sapiens, and recent ones at that. Why would it be expected they'd be all that different from us? I mean, OK, no iPods, but...

[omnirook]

Meh. Why is anyone surprised - there were Italians.

Here's one on Neolithic Englishmen (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/4760643.stm)

Not to fault my anthropologist brothers from another mother, but - c'mon - these guys aren't that old. They're Homo sapiens, and recent ones at that. Why would it be expected they'd be all that different from us? I mean, OK, no iPods, but...

I've never bought the garbage about paradisical ages when all was gentle farming and peaceful living. We get lots of that romantic clap-trap from European explorers of places like Tahiti and Hawaii. Bollocks, as the English would say. More than love, far more than peace, violence and brutality have played roles in human history. Man is a violent creature. Even at his most peaceful, the threat of violence is constantly held in reserve. A modern paradigm is the notion of keeping peace by being armed better than one's adversaries ... Most of the nonsense about making people more "civilized" has more to do w/supporting the power of government by giving it the exclusive right to use violence than it does w/the welfare of the public. On this point I will not budge: government cares for the welfare of the public only in so far as its own welfare and power are concerned. Any corner of the public weal that can be cut will be cut, no matter what suffering is entailed.

[sosaiddave]

I think its a very sweet picture.

They might have embraced each other because of the cold, but then again if that was the main reason there are other ways that increase contact surface which would have been more effective.
Facing each other so closely is very intimate.
My theory is they set off somewhere, they stoped to eat something, but werent familiar with their surroundings, it was poisonous and killed them both in their sleep...

[Stoned_Rider]

Meh. Why is anyone surprised - there were Italians.

Here's one on Neolithic Englishmen (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/4760643.stm)

:rofl:

Here's a somewhat clearer image btw:
http://www.intpcentral.com/uploads/BODIES_narrowweb_300x369_0.jpg

[joft]

They were obviously doing it for survival purposes. Romantic love had not yet been invented, remember? The troubadores are a few thousand years off still.

[outmywindow]

They were obviously doing it for survival purposes. Romantic love had not yet been invented, remember? The troubadores are a few thousand years off still.

:lol: Oh the joys of chivalric humor.

[dunee]

poison
could be. As I was showering yesterday after posting, I idly thought "perhaps they ate some poisonous plant." That would then account for lack of receptacles and other suicide tools.
If this is what happened, and if the archaeologists did a reaaaaal good job of sifting dirt and took lots of soil samples (and get lucky that the remains underwent a quick preservation), and the couple left a few sprigs on the ground, then maybe they might find a few remains of the plant in the debris. But they'd have to get quite lucky. Plant remains don't preserve that well whithout prior charring, especially from the neolithic.


I think its a very sweet picture.

They might have embraced each other because of the cold, but then again if that was the main reason there are other ways that increase contact surface which would have been more effective.
Facing each other so closely is very intimate.
My theory is they set off somewhere, they stoped to eat something, but werent familiar with their surroundings, it was poisonous and killed them both in their sleep...
Also plausible, and one that could encompass multiple things- huddling against the cold, having accidentally eaten poisonous berries. Could have been a combo, such as malnutrition, cold, illness...

[digesthisickness]

my first image was of a couple arguing. one reaches out to strangle the other, and the other does the same. both squeeze tighter and tighter, and with faces turning red, oxygen depleting, they go down to their knees. then suddenly, the double snap of two hyoid bones and they fall over.

that or two lovers embracing during sleep when a husband walks in unexpectedly.