Human Trafficking

[Hustler]

INTPs, what do you think about the existence of and information presented on this site (http://www.stopthetraffik.org/)? How does it make you feel? Share your reactions.

[Rhu]

First reaction: Shqip is on top? That's a first. Dad'll be so proud. They could have alphabetized it by language instead of by English rendering of the country. It's... kinda confusing as it is. Especially since there are plenty of multi-national languages listed. Better yet, they could have ordered the languages by expected percentage of visitors.

Second reaction: Summary of this site is: the modern slave trade sucks.

Hey, no shit.

[bergenski]

This site shocked me...I always thought a movement would try to affect my influx of gardeners to the Southern New Hampshire area...

[Madrigal]

I didn't like it. Even sounds kinda bogus. And I wouldn't pay them an Argentine cent.

[bergenski]

Even sounds kinda bogus.
Yeah, the info seemed expanded, in my opinion.

[MacGuffin]

What does it mean I don't care enough to click on the link?

[Lurker]

Irritated. It's another ineffectual effort to "end" a complex problem, with chocolates, celebrities, and "Freedom Day." Overly idealistic.

[Madrigal]

Did you see all the rich assholes with the picture of the key on their palms, smiling as they thought of the tax breaks they'd get? :)


http://www.stopthetraffik.org/celebrity.aspx/

[Rhu]

Did you see all the rich assholes with the picture of the key on their palms, smiling as they thought of the tax breaks they'd get? :)

I have no idea who the fuck any of those people were.

[Lurker]

Did you see all the rich assholes with the picture of the key on their palms, smiling as they thought of the tax breaks they'd get? :)


http://www.stopthetraffik.org/celebrity.aspx

Ugh. I'm getting angrier.

Wanna help people? How about direct loans with miniscule interest rates. Check this site out.

http://kiva.org/

[PonderBee]

Prostitution should be legalized and regulated in the US. That makes more sense than chasing ghosts and locking up the lowest common denominators.

[Lurker]

What does it mean I don't care enough to click on the link?

That you're complacent? *shrug*

[Hustler]

Irritated. It's another ineffectual effort to "end" a complex problem, with chocolates, celebrities, and "Freedom Day." Overly idealistic.
How should people who find the practice of human trafficking and outright slavery in modern society unacceptable go about raising awareness about the issue and trying to bring it to a close? What could a site like that do better?

[Madrigal]

How should people who find the practice of human trafficking and outright slavery in modern society go about raising awareness about the issue and trying to bring it to a close? What could a site like that do better?

You can't stop human trafficking by banding together with a bunch of rich millionaires without a pro-worker bone in their bodies. You can't even seriously confront it without confronting the system. All countries import products made through child labour and under the most appalling conditions of exploitation you can imagine. The status quo is to shut up about it or publicly make a lukewarm condamnation of that state of affairs.

What are you supposed to do about it, and, more importantly, who is supposed to do something about it? Not anyone who knows that any serious action could end up compromising their trade arrangements with those corrupt little countries who don't enforce the constitution and don't guarantee human rights, and which the First World greatly benefits from. Sure there are International Organizations whose reason for existing seems to be to publish reports about how human rights are violated and how developed and democratic countries hypocritically act as accomplices. I think they're just wasting a lot of paper and trees on their fancy reports.

Some people have had some ideas; mobilization, civil disobedience, publicly attacking the companies who engage in these illegal activities. But that's not enough either, because the system will eventually metabolize you.


http://www.intpcentral.com/uploads/nike.jpg

[Hustler]

What are you supposed to do about it, and, more importantly, who is supposed to do something about it?
Is raising awareness not always the first step in such matters? Many people are ignorant to what goes on outside their own little worlds, and that will never change unless they are exposed to more information. How can creating a website to at least talk about the existence of slavery in the modern world and cite some specific examples not be a good thing, if you think the status quo in this case is a bad thing?

[Madrigal]

Is raising awareness not always the first step in such matters? Many people are ignorant to what goes on outside their own little worlds, and that will never change unless they are exposed to more information. How can creating a website to at least talk about the existence of slavery in the modern world and cite some specific examples not be a good thing, if you think the status quo in this case is a bad thing?

I'm sorry but don't you see that it's just a stupid website for dried up old millionaires to save on taxes or what! :angry: What kind of classist message are you promoting there?

[Hustler]

I'm sorry but don't you see that it's just a stupid website for dried up old millionaires to save on taxes or what! :angry: What kind of classist message are you promoting there?
I don't think you understand how the system of taxation works. You don't just throw up a website and all of a sudden start saving tons of money.

[Madrigal]

I don't think you understand how the system of taxation works. You don't just throw up a website and all of a sudden start saving tons of money.

Lol, duh. Donate to an organization, yes. And I'm sure it's all being put to great use too. <_<

[Hustler]

Lol, duh. Donate to an organization, yes. And I'm sure it's all being put to great use too. <_<
If it came down to the choice of donating money to an organization like that or paying the same amount in taxes to the US government, what would be your choice?

[Madrigal]

If it came down to the choice of donating money to an organization like that or paying the same amount in taxes to the US government, what would be your choice?

Taxes.

[Hustler]

Taxes.
So then you support American imperialism over efforts to raise awareness about slavery. That's totally fucked up coming from you.

[Zephyrus055]

So then you support American imperialism over efforts to raise awareness about slavery. That's totally fucked up coming from you.
I would do that too. At least a portion of my earnings will be sent as foreign aid, while the organization will simply put it in their pockets.

[Hustler]

I would do that too. At least a portion of my earnings will be sent as foreign aid, while the organization will simply put it in their pockets.
You suppose the net effect of the US government is better than the net effect of that organization? I can understand that coming from you, but it's unexpected to hear it coming from Madrigal. I would expect her to believe that if all that group did was take donations and just keep that website up, that it would be doing more net good, overall, than the US government.

[outmywindow]

I'm going to begin starting my conversations with this: "Do you know that trafficked children are used in the production of chocolate?"

Apparently this will help the global cause, not make people avoid you like the plague for being a loony.

[Ka.avik]

Taxes.
agreed.

The government is right here, and I can find them, and the constitution currently allows for me to arm myself so if we need to suddenly band together and start a civil war we can at least make it really expensive to force us to do things their way. Especially if we all owned one of the .50cal rifles Kuranes pointed out a while ago. Oh, and about 1000 rounds for it. Kept in an airtight box.

BUT!! as to the subject at hand. I don't believe everything I read in teh' intarwebs. Sometimes what comes out of those tubes doesn't come from where you think it does ....

[Madrigal]

So then you support American imperialism over efforts to raise awareness about slavery. That's totally fucked up coming from you.

You do have a point - your taxes can be used for financing the war in Iraq, for example, but they also go towards a number of necessary services and benefits for the American people, such as education, healthcare, pensions, etc. Refusing to pay taxes, particularly on an individual basis, isn't much of a political statement. I think that political opposition should be expressed through different and more effective means. However, donating to that BS organization is a political statement, one that I disagree with for the reasons I've already mentioned.

[Hustler]

You do have a point - your taxes can be used for financing the war in Iraq, for example, but they also go towards a number of necessary services and benefits for the American people, such as education, healthcare, pensions, etc. Refusing to pay taxes, particularly on an individual basis, isn't much of a political statement. I think that political opposition should be expressed through different and more effective means. However, donating to that BS organization is a political statement, one that I disagree with for the reasons I've already mentioned.

Well, do you think a dollar given to the US government is going to lead to a net increase of good in the world? If you really believe that, then it makes your anti-American stance kind of flimsy. So, if you think that this particular site is BS, what kind of site should an organization hoping to raise awareness about human trafficking in the modern world create? What would you have done differently in creating such a site? Surely you are not opposed to the idea that awareness about this subject should be raised, so how should it be done?

[bergenski]

I don't think a Web site is a bad idea, but it should be presented more effectively. I think there should be some graphic images of people in chains, being herded into trains under cover of night, etc., perhaps even more disturbing. I mean, instead of showing some fucking chocolates, they should have a kid sweating in a field. The point needs to be screamed more furtively about the nature of the problem, in big, compelling text, and more up front (I had to search to find the nature of "trafficking".) I think the more urgent and horrific they make it, the more impacting.

EDIT: I wouldn't spell it "traffik" because I don't understand why it has to be that way, and overall too much text crammed in there. It seems like it should be, like, "problem", "solution", "organization", "how you can help", "extra stuff", in a clear way. I don't even understand what that key on the palm is, is that supposed to be, like, freeing someone? Facts are great and all but I don't think having a lot of numbers is going to make people do as much...showing a woman after she has been abused would have a much greater impact.

[euterpenc]

The key thing almost looks like a cult symbol...

[Lurker]

How should people who find the practice of human trafficking and outright slavery in modern society unacceptable go about raising awareness about the issue and trying to bring it to a close? What could a site like that do better?

To the first question: Human trafficking and slave labor exists because there is a market for the goods/services it provides. People, particularly in the U.S., expect cheap, plentiful goods. If there was no market, the "industry" would dry up. So, businesses should be penalized (by public exposure, heavy taxation, even laws!) for marketing products that come from cheap or slave labor. Governmental regulation is the key. Ideally, American workers should produce American products. Since America is a huge consumer of goods, that single move should result in significantly less human exploitation.

So, people should petition government about it and resist purchasing goods produced in Developing Nations. By resist, I mean stop. Entirely. But that's not going to happen.

To the second question: Frankly, I don't see the point of a site at all. It seems like fluff to me. The only thing it could do better is present the problem in a less sugarcoated way, a way that actually indicts anyone who buys any product produced in a questionable manner. Also, I gotta agree with Bergenski, the site should present more graphic images. Emotional manipulation is indespensible with this kind of issue (besides, is it still manipulation if you are just presenting the truth?)

If people care enough about this issue, they may actually have to make sacrifices to bring about its end - not a $25 donation to a charity, but a lifestyle sacrifice. And then, one person isn't enough. It will take masses of people making sacrifices, something that doesn't happen often unless the issue hits closer to home (i.e., Civil Rights Movement)

[bergenski]

There will always be a demand for free labor, so it seems the only way to really combat it is by maintaining awareness for products that are often borne from this kind of labor, and law enforcement. That seems funds and manpower, and the site should state how this takes place so people won't think they are just pumping money into a bureacracy (which they probably are). Again, it should be more explicit, less verbose, and have a much better symbol than that key-on-the-palm.

[Helios]

People trafficking is one of the worlds fastest growing [..]industries. It is happening right here, right now, on your doorstep


I feel upset and cheated. I can't believe this is going on on my own doorstep. Yet, I am block from this investment opprotunity! Doesn't anyone offer an Emerging Market Slave Fund, or something?