New voice in the Middle East

[songbird36]

Do people think Mahmoud Abbas will make a real and lasting impact on the peace process in the Middle East, or will he be a puppet of the US and Israel?

I'm not committing myself on this one just yet...

[Edmond Zedo]

The only current Solution for "Peace in the Middle East" is the Nuclear one.

[mgb]

There will never be such a thing as lasting peace in the Middle East, there never has been.

[Claverhouse]

I think he could well be a puppet, although that wouldn't preclude him making a vast impact on the Middle East if he makes a peace that would be disastrous for the Palestinians. Already it's evident he isn't the leader that Arafat for all his faults was; nor as charismatic ( more one of the suits who dominate European politics ).

Which just goes to show that the old, tried and true, methods that worked for the Borgias still have relevance today.



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[songbird36]

Abbas already has a track record as a successful negotiator (was instrumental in negotiating the Oslo accord) and has vowed to implement the road map which would see Israeli settlement stop in the occupied territories and the creation of a Palestinian state with its capital in East Jerusalem.

But I'm not convinced he can reign in the intifada and until he does I doubt whether Israel will make any concessions at the negotiating table.

[Dman]

I think there's also something to be said for the "opening" this gives other involved countries, such as the US. Regardless of what Abbas is or stands for, it allows old grudges and stances to die while saving political face. Concessions can be made without risking the perception of going back on their word, or bowing to pressure. In other words it's an opportunity to start new. The question is, will it be taken advantage of.

[Shai Gar]

i HAVE a copy of the camp david roadmap for isreali/palestinian peace. it is a peace of shit. read it and get out a map and take a look at it, it is crap it gives a lot to isreal and nearly nothing to palestine, while not demanding anything of isreal.

i have no idea whether or not he will be a puppet of the US, but if he is the one the US are backing then he is the guy who will be puppet.. i think you need to understand that sharon set up hamas, which is the counter terrorist organisation that harries isreali forces and people and thus provides more excuses for the continued settlement and genocide in palestine. (i call all of what you call isreal palestine because it was stolen from the majority palestinian people and given to an extreme minority)
There has been lasting peace in the middle east for centuries. there were obsticles such as french, english, ottoman and american colonialism. oh and the crusades of course. you only need to take a REAL look at middle eastern history to see that.

[songbird36]

Actually that's not correct. The final borders for a Palestinian state were only to be drawn after Phase 3 of the roadmap was implemented (which was projected for 2004/2005). The roadmap largely shies away from the border question.

The central problem seems to be that Israel hasn't stopped its settlement programme in the West Bank and Gaza as it undertook to do, and Arafat (and now Abbas it seems) wasn't able to stop Hamas militant attacks.

In short, the roadmap fell apart at the first hurdles. I wonder if it can be resurrected.

[mgb]

You can't really shy away from the border question can you? Seems fundamental.

It drives me nuts that the burden of restraint falls on the Palestinians. They aren't even a state. In order to achieve peace in the region, Israel has to step up the plate and start acting like a state and stop retaliating for every attack. They have the military might, not the Palestinians. Who is the bully in this fight?

[Shai Gar]

iran is obviously. so once bush invades there there is a chance for peace in the middle east. GO BUSH. /sarcasm

[mgb]

In short, the roadmap fell apart at the first hurdles. I wonder if it can be resurrected.

Why resurrect something that fell apart in the first hurdles?

[Shai Gar]

very good point. why not make isrealis and palestinians trade places for the next 50 years

[Dman]

iran is obviously. so once bush invades there there is a chance for peace in the middle east. GO BUSH. /sarcasm

Won't be any need to invade. Iran will soon have nuclear weapons capability, Israel and Iran will engage in nuclear warfare, and the middle east will simply be a radioactive parking lot.

[songbird36]

Why resurrect something that fell apart in the first hurdles?

Because the roadmap was a well conceived 3 stage plan that unfortunately did not get the buy in of either Israel or Palestine, at the critical stages.

[Shai Gar]

that is because it was not at all well conceived, it demands that palestine take almost full responsibility, and they are not even treated like a nation. let alone a nation under severe attack every day where their oppressors commit genocide

[jgreensp]

I don't know you but I do know that you have no clue what you are talking about. Sharon setting up Hamas? Get off the crack pipe and please do not state absurd opinions with no backup. Thank you.

[Shai Gar]

i think you should look into Sharons history you moron. it is gone into in the fateful triangle by chomsky. when sharon was in the idf special forces in palestine he set up an israel friendly militant group called hamas (way back in the 70's) and he funded them too. this is not denied by the isreali government.

so next time you want to accuse someone of having no clue what they are talking about then just ask them for proof first you delirious child

[mgb]

I guess we already have our answer:


Prime Minister Ariel Sharon will refuse to meet Mahmoud Abbas until the new Palestinian leader moves against militant groups behind an attack that killed six Israelis in Gaza, Sharon's spokesman said on Friday.

"Israel is severing all planned contacts with the Palestinians on all levels, from security to government leadership," spokesman Assaf Shariv said, a day after the assault that defied Abbas's calls for non-violence.

[mgb]

Because the roadmap was a well conceived 3 stage plan that unfortunately did not get the buy in of either Israel or Palestine, at the critical stages.

So as a plan it obviously didn't work because it has enough shortcomings that both sides decided not to follow it.