ENTP Kevin

[CuM2cmU]

i'm 21 right now, in college, majoring in decision science and policy and management. of course, i'm an entp; also since i'm the informative side of the NT spectrum, i talk/write a lot. i'm glad i found this site, and i have a feeling that i will be sticking around the forum a lot more. if you want to see what i look like, it's in the sticky above.

when i was a kid, i was an ENTP. the wild inventor. i was always ranked as the head of my class; and it wasn't done by studying: it was by sheer ingenuity and creativeness alone. i won many engineering / science / mathematics competitions as a kid. then i reached puberty, and my hormones took a huge impact on my F and T side.

in high school, i was an ENFP. i mean, i published a book of poetry and proses called "the false security of our sand castle." i dare any NT's to do something like that! ;P i was a hardcore NF, and self-identity and authenticity was something i focused my entire life on. i felt deep emotions, down to the bones, and i still remember all of it clearly. during this time, i developed great inter-personal skills. it was enough to win the gold medals for the state competitions in speech, essay and interview.

then i learned about Ayn Rand and her philosophy. she wrote two books (atlas shrugged and the foutainhead), and in them, she portrayed what she believed was the perfect human beings. after i discovered MBTI, i was immediately able to see that her 'perfect being' that we must all aspire to be is actually an INTJ. and through more study of higher education, i find her philosophy flawed now, but at the time, it reminded me of my rational and logical side.

once high school was through, I realized I'm still an ENTP. I felt like I was back to my original self. However, I was able to remember and recall everything I did as an NF, and I still possess great inter-personal skills. Combine that with an NT thinking, and suddenly, I feel like I've doubled my capacity and potential as a person.

and, now that i'm off to college, i am surrounded by many more NT's, especially at a technical school like carnegie mellon university. i've been lucky to meet some ENTJ's and INTJ's, and they have become close friends. Out of my 13 closeset friends, 5 ENTJ's, 3 ENTP's, 2 INTJ's, 1 ENFJ, and 1 ISFJ. If you follow the statistics, you'll see that my friends are all rare breeds, especially the two INTJ's (well, except that one ISFJ. but she's my g/f. since i'm a crazy NTP, i find her SJ ways incredibly comforting and stable). However, like-minds always find each other.

My group of friends are very close and we are all very much into MBTI. Since we are almost all NT's, sometimes we joke about how we should start the world dominiation. Our favorite pasttime is sitting around, analyzing and watching everyone. Don't we sound like NT's?

Anyway, I'm glad that I found this site. I've been wanting to discuss about MBTI more in depth, but my resources were running out. But now I found something almost infinite: y'all's brains.

[InsurgentAlpha]

Hehe, obviously an extravert. Nice to have one around here. Welcome!

[Solo]

I guess it's about time an E found his way over here. Welcome to the forum and enjoy your stay.

[joft]

Welcome.

I think I would agree that people can and do change types over time. I think I was closer to ENTP when I was a child. My parents divorced when I was around 13, about the same time I started going to the church my best friend's dad was the pastor of; it was pentecostal, the very emotional and demonstrative type. Those things kind of made me an INFP for a few years, which was very uncomfortable and I didn't feel at all like I was myself. Now I've settled quite comfortably back into my NTP tendencies, and having been homeschooled since I was 9 I've also kept the introversion and find that comfortable now too.

I wish I could be more of an ENTP like you; but, I just haven't found any more people I get along with well enough offline beside my INTJ friend (who's always going to be bitter about me not going to their church anymore). It's hard if you don't live in a dorm, and your only interaction is the 5 minutes in class before the professor comes in.

I didn't mean to talk so much about myself :p glad to have you here- variety is the spice of life.

[matthew0028]

Welcome! :hello:

[CuM2cmU]

thank you for the replies!

also, why do you want to be an ENTP? be proud of who you are. sometimes, i'm very envious of the introverts (especially IJ's of any kind), but i like who i am.

introverts possess a more focused N side (though just as deep and vast). meanwhile the extroverts' intuition can make the person completely directionless and lost.

[BritainOphira]

in high school, i was an ENFP. i mean, i published a book of poetry and proses called "the false security of our sand castle." i dare any NT's to do something like that! ;P
Bah, its not that we don't write poetry, we just happen to procrastinate more than others.

[Edmond Zedo]

in high school, i was an ENFP.
Step 1. Pick any type. Okay? Step 2. Contemplate this: If you aren't it now, you never were.

[Boneca]

Welcome!

It seems most of us go through this growing up phase, when we act as NF's and whatnot. But fortunately (?) we'll come back to ourselves eventually.

You sure sound extrovert..."my 13 closest friends" does not sound like anything we usually hear around here. :D

[CuM2cmU]

heh. i'm definitely an extrovert.

i guess you are correct in that i shouldn't say i WAS an ENFP. certainly, now i understand that it was my hormones driving me insane. it's growing up.

however, i cannot forget or merely push aside what i did and how i acted during that period. for me, as a 21 year old, those 4 years were significant amount of my life. though now i'm back to myself, i still acknowledge that i went through an ENFP stage, where self-analyzation and authenticity were so vital to me.

i still do it sometimes. i've practiced so much that i can bring out my hidden NF side in social situations, and go back to NT in normal situations. that's why, when people meet me first, they believe that i'm an outgoing idealist. however, once they get to know me better, they are shocked by my rationalism.

[MasterMerk]

ENTPs are one of the easiest types to spot for me. I remember this ENTP science teacher I had in the past - you'd ask him a question and 99% of the time he'd jump right back at you with a witty answer, and he'd make it look so easy and natural. Gotta admire that.

[Avengardh]

My parents are ENTPs....and, welcome.

[CuM2cmU]

my mom: ISFJ
my dad: ISTJ
my bro: ESFP

me: ENTP


i always felt soooo different from everyone in my family. i couldn't figure out why until i discovered myers-briggs.

[Clara]

Hi, CuM2cmU :)



Carnegie Mellon University
where all NT's gather

:D Really ? ... not INTP Central ? ;)

[jjt]

Hiya,
My husband is an ENTP, so I have a soft spot for that type. He was incredibly brilliant at school when younger too. He is now a documentary producer and director and is always enthusiastically relaying all current research about his latest project to anyone who's listening to him. Very entertaining and interesting.
Welcome

[Miss Anthropic]

:ph34r: Yikes! You sound so well rounded, and successful. Its a bit threatening! Welcome anyway.

[Valtro434]

Ah yes, hello, another refugee from ENTP.org

I have never felt that I was anything but ENTP - but when you are a teenager, it is a time of great awakening. There is much going on in your head and your heart.

I think it is easy to look at emotion and emotive episodes and conclude it must be the result of being an F type. I am sure many of the stalwart thinkers on here have had heartache and sorrow and felt sympathy for causes they believed in, many have written music and poetry as well.

For ENTPs, Feeling is actually the inferior function if I am not mistaken - so to move from a type where Feeling is secondary to a type where it is last seems unlikely.

The search for identity and the self is very much a part of growing up - you are making a break with your parents and trying to find your place in the world. I decided that I was going to have long hair and be mister rocker guy (this was the 80s people, lay off mmkay?) This annoyed people at my church to no end.

ENTPs and ENFPs have a fair amount of similarities and I can definately see how we may percieve our selves as ENFP at certain times in our life.

[CreativeChaos]

Hi Keven,
Heh! It looks like INTPCentral is becoming Central station for a lot of different types. I'm INFP. I frequent ENTP.org to try and figure out my ENTP boss. I've told him about ENTP.org. There's this guy on there that has posted VERY looonnggg posts about string theory. Geeze! Have you seen it? Lord! Even the E's in there eventually gave up on him, because he just wouldn't stop blabbing about string theory, hee! :rofl:

(oops, I hope that wasn't you ;) )

:smooch:

Cindy

[s]

ENTP's are cool. I even married one.

[Valtro434]

Hi Keven,
Heh! It looks like INTPCentral is becoming Central station for a lot of different types. I'm INFP. I frequent ENTP.org to try and figure out my ENTP boss. I've told him about ENTP.org. There's this guy on there that has posted VERY looonnggg posts about string theory. Geeze! Have you seen it? Lord! Even the E's in there eventually gave up on him, because he just wouldn't stop blabbing about string theory, hee! :rofl:

(oops, I hope that wasn't you ;) )

:smooch:

Cindy

ENTPs make good bosses because we really just care if you get the job done. In the final analysis, if you come in late, but no clients were put out or if you break a rule but nobody else noticed, its all good.

If you want to impress your ENTP boss, just demonstrate your competence, fail to bore him with minutia and realize that if you do make a mistake, he is probably more forgiving of a bad outcome than a bad intent. Explain your process and why you thought it was the right thing to do, he will expect that.

ENTPs respect competence but we may define it differently. We will define it by intent and ability more than actual outcome - so maybe thats "potential competence"

[CreativeChaos]

Wow! Thanks for that advice Valtro434! :D

If I knew how to bookmark, I'd certainly bookmark this! Your comments are very nice to know! He kinda scares me at times. He's soooo smart and sooooo outgoing! He's also goodlooking. He has everything going for him. A bit humbling to a poor shy INFP. Not sure he looks favorably on my type or sees me as competent.

[garak]

ENTPs make good bosses because we really just care if you get the job done. In the final analysis, if you come in late, but no clients were put out or if you break a rule but nobody else noticed, its all good.

If you want to impress your ENTP boss, just demonstrate your competence, fail to bore him with minutia . . .

Wow, that's a great description of the ENTP guy I have worked for. In some sense we have a great working relationship (neither of us gets stuck trying to explain things while the other scratches their head -- we can "get" each other's ideas quickly), but then again, damn he's such a scatterbrain, and over-ambitious to the point of being a bit difficult to deal with. Everytime I talk to him I have to mentally psyche myself up a bit. It's kind of funny because now I'm working for an INFP and I constantly feel like I need to slip some speed in his drink or something. And he doesn't "get" what I'm saying a lot of the time, like other types might.

[CreativeChaos]

Originally posted by garak:
Wow, that's a great description of the ENTP guy I have worked for. In some sense we have a great working relationship (neither of us gets stuck trying to explain things while the other scratches their head -- we can "get" each other's ideas quickly), but then again, damn he's such a scatterbrain, and over-ambitious to the point of being a bit difficult to deal with. Everytime I talk to him I have to mentally psyche myself up a bit. It's kind of funny because now I'm working for an INFP and I constantly feel like I need to slip some speed in his drink or something. And he doesn't "get" what I'm saying a lot of the time, like other types might.

This is great stuff! garak, my ENTP boss is a scatterbrain and over-ambitious. I have to mentally psych myself up a bit. And on top of that I don't "get" what he's saying a lot of the time, I guess because of being INFP. He leaves out very pertinent information and details that are needed to understand his directives, and he just assumes I know what he's talking about, like I can read his mind or something. And I really think that he thinks I'm incompetent. Although he's been very nice to me for the last two weeks. (Makes me wonder what's wrong? Hee! ;) )

He is excellent at his job, though. And he is relaxed on rules (thank goodness). I hope that he sees that I have good intent and maybe "potential competence"? Have you ever worked with an INFP Valtro434?

[Geoff]

All of this adds to my personal difficulty over my own type, I hear so much of myself in the descriptions of the ENTP boss etc. My score in my 'official' testing (done over two days by a specialist) was exactly even E-I. Think I probably *am* INTP and not ENTP, but it seems to vary from day to day.

Certainly that boss description is perhaps a good description of myself to my staff. I certainly do forgive mistakes if the intent is good, and probably am scatter brained, and within the office outgoing and verbal. But then internally I am an I. Yeah, I know.

Interesting stuff, anyway

-Geoff

[Valtro434]

This is great stuff! garak, my ENTP boss is a scatterbrain and over-ambitious. I have to mentally psych myself up a bit. And on top of that I don't "get" what he's saying a lot of the time, I guess because of being INFP. He leaves out very pertinent information and details that are needed to understand his directives, and he just assumes I know what he's talking about, like I can read his mind or something. And I really think that he thinks I'm incompetent. Although he's been very nice to me for the last two weeks. (Makes me wonder what's wrong? Hee! ;) )

He is excellent at his job, though. And he is relaxed on rules (thank goodness). I hope that he sees that I have good intent and maybe "potential competence"? Have you ever worked with an INFP Valtro434?

Be careful about how you use the word scatterbrained. ENTPs do tend to be disorganized - the more insignificant the detail, the less likely we are to know where it is.

BUT - we ALWAYS know the score, we understand the political climate and how we rate. Some ENTPs have particularly powerful extraverted iNtuition and if they do not balance it with a well developed intraverted thinking function, then they can be frustrating and yes, scatter brained.

If you work with a balanced, gifted ENTP, he they will probably be quite visionary.

When we give instructions, it is likely to be something like this:

1. Go change the A record in the DNS server to reflect the IP address of the new web site.

We presume that you know how to:

1. Log in to the server
2. Administer the DNS portion
3. Obtain an IP address from a web site
4. Edit an A record.

My ISFJ boss always wanted to go like this:

1. Hit CTRL-ALT-DEL and enter your user name and password
2. Click the start button and go to Administrative tools
3. Launch the DNS manager tool
4. Find this
5. Right click that
6. Edit this value with this info

blah blah blah to #20.

ENTPs, have two modes - it sounds like your boss is presuming that you are competent and will address you in macro mode. He expects that you will understand everything he is telling you, but if you are short on a detail, he will absolutely not hold it against you for asking. He may not appreciate you dwaddling because you did not know a detail you should have asked for.

Mode 2 is our micro management mode. It is very detailed and can even be petulant and insulting depending on the circumstances. When we think you do not know how to do something, so we are going to give you EVERY POSSIBLE DETAIL. You probably only need 50% of the details, but sorting through and figuring out which 50% would be exhausting and inefficient - so we give you the whole thing. You may be insulted. We don't particularly care - take the info, apply it and we will be good.

I do not know many INFPs - my wife (ISFP) has a friend who is INFP and I like her BUT - she has these "causes" that she is all into, but cannot support, yet she likes to argue them - so I win on logic, but she decided that she does not like the logical position, she is more comfortable with the good feelings she gets from the previous position. This type of behavior is anathema to ENTPs and I think INTPs as well. Conclusions are supported by logic and fact - or perhaps "unprovable" things like God are at least recognized as unprovable and supported by faith which is recognized as an exception.

Also - ENTPs can be pretty ambitious, but our type tends to be more "informative" than directive by nature. However, I find that as I grow older, I am picking up some ENTJ traits and I do like to be in charge.

Remember that the primary desire of all NTs is power - power over man and nature. For the ENTPs, we want power to bring our visions and inventions to fruition. We can be content to serve under highly competent leaders, but if the leader is petty and not strategic, we quickly tire of them and may even engineer a coup.

We are systems thinkers and when we look at an organization or power structure, we intuit how it can be made better and more efficient - that is what drives us - acquiring the power to implement change.

[CreativeChaos]

Originally posted by Valtro434:
Mode 2 is our micro management mode. It is very detailed and can even be petulant and insulting depending on the circumstances. When we think you do not know how to do something, so we are going to give you EVERY POSSIBLE DETAIL. You probably only need 50% of the details, but sorting through and figuring out which 50% would be exhausting and inefficient - so we give you the whole thing. You may be insulted. We don't particularly care - take the info, apply it and we will be good.

AhHaa! This is GREAT! It's like being able to ask all of those things I never dared to ask my boss! This is SO true! He has done this so many times. I will ask one small thing and he sits down and goes over every last detail. And I'm sitting there thinking, "How stupid does he think I am?" GEE!!! WOW!!! Is MBTI great or what?

Thanks Valtro!!!! :D

I meant no disrespect with the scatterbrained statement since I myself am scatterbrained. I figured that was a typical NP sort of thing.

I haven't known a lot of INFPs really well. But some descriptions seem to indicate that they are typically religious and illogical. I have been talking to quite a few INFPs on the INFP site and many Atheist, very Rational, like myself. (Not to put down religion or say it's irratonal) We have very logical thought out discussions. Go see for yourself if you don't believe me. There are two who have relationships with an ENTP.

[Valtro434]

No offense taken. You almost have to be shooting real bullets for us to take offense.

Which site?

And yes, those of us ENTPs who are good looking - we can be quite taken with ourselves ;)

[waxwing]

Hi.

I enjoyed reading your intro.

Sidenote: I fell in love with an ENTP once. He was an international politics major. I wonder if a lot of ENTP's end up in politics.

[CreativeChaos]

Originally Posted by Valtro434:
No offense taken. You almost have to be shooting real bullets for us to take offense.

Which site?

And yes, those of us ENTPs who are good looking - we can be quite taken with ourselves ;)

That's http://infp.globalchatter.com/. It is the second largest MBTI forum of this type that I know of. It has about 350 members. INTPCentral has 600 some odd. You poor ENTPs at ENTP.org have about 28. (You guys are too busy I guess to sit down and actually post, Hee!)

Anyway, I think ALL NFs should come to the INFP site, ALL NTs to the INTP site and we could have a shared N site. The Ss don't seem to give a damn about any of this. ;)

We Ns are only 20% of the population if you put all of the N types together. Thus, I don't think we should divide. Those Ss have been dividing and concouring. We are so few in number, why not collaborate? You have felt odd as an ENTP right? Join the club of all Ns!

[Sally]

Hello! I don't have any insights about ENFPs I've known springing to mind, but I find your intro fascinating! One thing about MBTI types that is especially interesting to me is that they don't just describe four polarized characteristics but the *interactions* of those characteristics. So ENTP isn't just 'someone just like me but extroverted' but a wholly shifted point of view. And I'm generalizing here because you seem to identify very much with your type.

Anyway. Looking forward to reading your thoughts - what I meant to say. :}

[cjs55]

Remember that the primary desire of all NTs is power - power over man and nature

I don't think INTPs desire power. Most don't have much of a desire to change the world, only to understand it. I desire autonomy and wisdom, but these things are not power over man or nature, rather an understanding of them which lets me know how to act. If an INTP is extremely certain about something they may take up a cause, or try to control a situation, but its rare and not the 'primary desire'.



We Ns are only 20% of the population if you put all of the N types together. Thus, I don't think we should divide. Those Ss have been dividing and concouring. We are so few in number, why not collaborate? You have felt odd as an ENTP right? Join the club of all Ns!

Someone should make some general N boards. I really enjoy to some extent the comments made by any N, some more than others. I'm not nearly as intolerant as say Zedo is about NF outpoorings.


So ENTP isn't just 'someone just like me but extroverted' but a wholly shifted point of view.

Yes, this took a while to sink in for me, but when it did it totally redeemed the entire 16-type system. An ENTP's intiution is focused in a different way, for a different reason, than an INTP's. Certainly, manipulation is a part of their thinking, while for INTPs, we really could care less. This is evidenced by this quote:


For the ENTPs, we want power to bring our visions and inventions to fruition. We can be content to serve under highly competent leaders, but if the leader is petty and not strategic, we quickly tire of them and may even engineer a coup.


And here I just realized something. Maybe INTPs do want power after all. An ENTP's inventions are external things that he must be able to manipulate into being. An INTP's inventions are internal things that he must be able to manipulate himself into creating. Thus, INTPs want power over themselves more than anything else. Oh well, I don't know if this is right at all...

[QrioCT]

hmmm....N forum...it might be interesting. im curious about NFs. especially those INFJs that are 'always right' without logic, how can that be?

oya, talk about witty ENTP science teachers. are you sure you didn't have my science teacher in disguise? :D he's hella quick to answering all my random questions that would usually send an average guy thinking for at least a minute.

oya, forgot to say, hey Kevin.

[Valtro434]

Hello! I don't have any insights about ENFPs I've known springing to mind, but I find your intro fascinating! One thing about MBTI types that is especially interesting to me is that they don't just describe four polarized characteristics but the *interactions* of those characteristics. So ENTP isn't just 'someone just like me but extroverted' but a wholly shifted point of view. And I'm generalizing here because you seem to identify very much with your type.

Anyway. Looking forward to reading your thoughts - what I meant to say. :}

I agree. This is why I find it so puzzling when people post "I used to be THIS, now I am THAT!". I mean, what is your primary function? I can be directive and assertive sometimes - resembling an ENTJ, but my primary function is absolutely eN - without any question (also, I am highly disorganized).

[Valtro434]

I don't think INTPs desire power. Most don't have much of a desire to change the world, only to understand it. I desire autonomy and wisdom, but these things are not power over man or nature, rather an understanding of them which lets me know how to act. If an INTP is extremely certain about something they may take up a cause, or try to control a situation, but its rare and not the 'primary desire'.




Someone should make some general N boards. I really enjoy to some extent the comments made by any N, some more than others. I'm not nearly as intolerant as say Zedo is about NF outpoorings.



Yes, this took a while to sink in for me, but when it did it totally redeemed the entire 16-type system. An ENTP's intiution is focused in a different way, for a different reason, than an INTP's. Certainly, manipulation is a part of their thinking, while for INTPs, we really could care less. This is evidenced by this quote:




And here I just realized something. Maybe INTPs do want power after all. An ENTP's inventions are external things that he must be able to manipulate into being. An INTP's inventions are internal things that he must be able to manipulate himself into creating. Thus, INTPs want power over themselves more than anything else. Oh well, I don't know if this is right at all...

Trust me, you want power.

Maybe not in an obvious way, but NTs want power.

We think, architect, invent, mastermind and marshall primarily ideas.

We all want it in different ways and to different degrees, but we want power.

SJs want stability and security and control - control to make sure nothing goes wrong because they are scared to death of contingencies and unforseen events.

SPs want to move and do and experience - they like to create art and jump off cliffs and drive too fast, but any power obtained is strictly for use as an experience.

NFs want authenticity and wholeness and healing and whatnot. If they want power, its power to heal or bring peace or some other such pollyanna vision.

NTs want the power to lead, make war, and bring fantastic, impossible schemed to reality. New political systems, new inventions, new technology - if there is a system, we can improve it, or conquer it and build anew.

Trust me - you want power.

Discover what form of power you really want and you will know yourself much better.

[cjs55]

You don't know INTPs in the slightest buddy. I hope you have realized that they are entirely different than you, not just introverted ENTPs.

"power to lead, make war,"

I doubt any INTP would agree with those statements, and even bringing "fantastic, impossible schemed to reality" is not a topic that is ever discussed here, nor something that I would need control over anyone but myself to accomplish.

[Valtro434]

You don't know INTPs in the slightest buddy. I hope you have realized that they are entirely different than you, not just introverted ENTPs.

"power to lead, make war,"

I doubt any INTP would agree with those statements, and even bringing "fantastic, impossible schemed to reality" is not a topic that is ever discussed here, nor something that I would need control over anyone but myself to accomplish.

No, I do ralize that. I realize that INTPs do not seek that kind of power. I was over generalizing from my point of view.

Perhaps INTPs most seek personal or intellectual power. Einstein was very powerful was he not?

I do think that in this respect, INTPs are the least power seeking of all NTs.

[Sally]

I think you're right - that it is power, but it's personal, intellectual power. Knowledge and understanding and the ability to react in one's own best interest. Recreating the entire world is too much work; there's far too much risk and responsibility. Too many variables. I think INTPs strive to find a more efficient way of life - a simple, organized external world that draws as little energy as possible from the internal world. When INTPs do have an external impact, Einstein as you mentioned, or Jung, it's happenchance. The idea takes on a life of its own; it's not the INTP setting out to change people's minds. Having other people agree with you is just a bonus. :}

[sketch]

I think you're right - that it is power, but it's personal, intellectual power. Knowledge and understanding and the ability to react in one's own best interest. Recreating the entire world is too much work; there's far too much risk and responsibility. Too many variables. I think INTPs strive to find a more efficient way of life - a simple, organized external world that draws as little energy as possible from the internal world. When INTPs do have an external impact, Einstein as you mentioned, or Jung, it's happenchance. The idea takes on a life of its own; it's not the INTP setting out to change people's minds. Having other people agree with you is just a bonus. :}

That's a great way of putting it. The kind of power I seek is freedom from the external word. That takes shape in many contexts. At work, I gravitate to doing the minimum work, while having the maximum impact on my superior. My power is maximum job security with minimum effort. My procrastination is a way of exercizing my power to control my schedule. My mental pursuits are my way of controlling what interests me most: personal mental stimulation. I think it is that thirst for personal power over the external world that puts many INTPs at odds with it. It's why we resist manipulation so much.