KEEPING YOUR MAIDEN NAME IS STUPID

[Shai Gar]

where in fucking hell do you think your maiden name comes from?

your father. and even if it came from your mother, odds are pretty good your mother got it from her father.

when i get married i am not marrying anyone who does not change their name to acknowledge their bond to me. hell if i have to give up sex with different partners, and half of my life SHE WILL take my name.

damn i hate feminists. old school feminists are the real pathmakers. women should have equal rights as men and be able to vote and drink in the same place. but taking power from one side and putting it on the other is just as evil as keeping men in absolute power. i have an orange for anyone who sends me oprahs head.

[mgb]

Why does it matter what the last name of your wife is?

[Shai Gar]

because she is my wife. if i am every going to go into the tradition of marriage then i want to use all of the tradition. not just pick and choose.

not that i want to be married

[Groty]

Gimme a break...

She doesn't have to take my name because she's won my heart.

Besides, I know many women that use both. It depends on the situation, business or personal.

Damn, if she uses a hyphen, does that mean she's loves you less? A woman will marry ME, not my name.

Not a big deal.

[file cabinet]

it never really has mattered to me, in fact, I would have my last name changed if she wanted(my last name is fairly generic, Smith).. ideally, neither of us would change our last names.

[matthew0028]

Okay, Shai, I'm going to have to disagree with you.

If I'm going to partake of a tradition (especially if it were one I didn't wholly endorse), I certainly would pick and choose. Keep what made sense to me, and ignore what didn't.

I think it's stupid (for me at least) to do something "just because that's how it's done." If something has valid real-world reasons, then sure, else... meh.

Personally, I don't give a damn what my future spouse takes for her last name (assuming hell freezes over and marriage ever happens for me). Realistically, for me, a last name is primarily a label that allows people to identify you (like a social security number). And it's also something personal. So if any future wife of mine didn't want to take my last name, I wouldn't care. If she did, I wouldn't care. Whatever works for her.

*shrug* At least, that's my opinion.

[mgb]

because she is my wife. if i am every going to go into the tradition of marriage then i want to use all of the tradition. not just pick and choose.

not that i want to be married

Will you own her when you marry her?

[Groty]

because she is my wife. if i am every going to go into the tradition of marriage then i want to use all of the tradition. not just pick and choose.

not that i want to be married
Tradition...

Do you expect a flock of sheep, a cow, and 2 acres of land from her parents too? Why not just push this back 2 Centuries, huh?

[Shai Gar]

of course i will own her, just as she will own me.

and keeping the last name and her taking mine makes sense by a record keeping standpoint. plus my name is very rare and i want it to continue in australia.

plus my main argument is not the taking of name which it seems to be. but rather the feminists arguing that keeping the maiden name is somehow more feminist. i realise my way of putting it was abstract but i wanted to fix the conception before it got bent out of place

[mgb]

What if her name was just as rare and she wanted to keep it? Not for feminism but sentiment.

[file cabinet]

What if her name was just as rare and she wanted to keep it? Not for feminism but sentiment.

mmm, if that was me, I would blend the two last names.

[Network Alchemy]

i would try to combine the names somehow and if such a concoction were ineffective i would create a new surname such as architectson or tsunami or headhunter or chupacabras or deathson or mathbringer

[Shai Gar]

oh i like network alchemy and file cabinets ideas of blending the names, or creating a new surname.

but i suppose i would be willing to give on the surname thing if she was willing to abort any children we had together

[Serotonin]

i want to use all of the tradition. not just pick and choose.
Tertiary Si raises its ugly head. Man, you do realise you're acting like a stubborn SJ.

[matthew0028]

i would try to combine the names somehow and if such a concoction were ineffective i would create a new surname such as architectson or tsunami or headhunter or chupacabras or deathson or mathbringer

Okay, I like the Mathbringer one. But I like my current last name too much to give it up. Especially since it's more commonly a first name.

Recptionist: "What's your last name?"
Me: "(Insert last name here)"
Recptionist: "No, your last name."
Me: "That *is* my last name"

Fun stuff.

I'm also amused that if you put an "s" at the end of my first name, it becomes a perfectly servicable last name.

[Vagabond]

Oh man, I knew I should stay away from that board that early in the morning...

*Her* bonding to you? what about your bonding to her, why not change your name after hers then..? Owning? Owning???!! Are you going to burn your trademark on her forehead too so that everyone will know whose property she is? If I am going to be with someone because he owns me, as if I were a horse he bought, I might as well shoot myself. When I am with someone, it is because I want to be with him, I choose to be with him; I have no intention of owning anyone either. If my husband/lover/partner/whatever didn't want to be with me, like hell I would wave a property contract in his face to keep him tied with me. What's the fucking point? If there is no love, mutual respect and willingness from both sides to be together, no contracts or ownerships are going to keep two people in a relationship.


but i suppose i would be willing to give on the surname thing if she was willing to abort any children we had togetherHow divine of you. If you don't want any kids, there is a brand new invention called condom. Read the instructions before you use it, you might get confused otherwise.

*biting my tongue*

[Serotonin]

Heh heh, "The Hooded Fury" indeed. Justified, mind you. Right on Vagabond.

[Shai Gar]

Oh man, I knew I should stay away from that board that early in the morning...

*Her* bonding to you? what about your bonding to her, why not change your name after hers then..? Owning? Owning???!! Are you going to burn your trademark on her forehead too so that everyone will know whose property she is? If I am going to be with someone because he owns me, as if I were a horse he bought, I might as well shoot myself. When I am with someone, it is because I want to be with him, I choose to be with him; I have no intention of owning anyone either. If my husband/lover/partner/whatever didn't want to be with me, like hell I would wave a property contract in his face to keep him tied with me. What's the fucking point? If there is no love, mutual respect and willingness from both sides to be together, no contracts or ownerships are going to keep two people in a relationship.

How divine of you. If you don't want any kids, there is a brand new invention called condom. Read the instructions before you use it, you might get confused otherwise.

*biting my tongue*
just like a woman

[Shai Gar]

Tertiary Si raises its ugly head. Man, you do realise you're acting like a stubborn SJ.
i was raised by an isfj. i do have some traits from my father.

[Vagabond]

I was raised by an ESFJ. That means nothing. "Just like a woman" also means nothing other than you can't defend your case. Not that I expected otherwise though, lol...

[mgb]

Are saying that mysogyny is inhereted or learned?

[Serotonin]

i was raised by an isfj
So was I.
"My dad's to blame!". Puh-lease.

[Vagabond]

Are saying that mysogyny is inhereted [...] ? Maybe he was refering to idiocy.

[Shai Gar]

i was refering to the stubborn adherence to traditions.

but whatever floats your boat lady.

[mgb]

Maybe he was refering to idiocy.

I guess we'll see in his forthcoming post :)

edit: beat me to it, haa haa

[matthew0028]

just like a woman

...

[MacGuffin]

I hate the double names, hyphen or not.

Just pick one or the other. It is a marriage, not a corporate merger.

[booyalab]

My aunt kept her maiden name, for whatever reason. This is not about stupid vs. smart. If someone wants to keep it, why the hell does it make any difference to anyone else whatsoever. I won't keep mine unless the one I want to marry has a particularly long/unpleasant surname. It's just a matter of opinion

[EdwinJefferson]

I wouldn't mind taking someone elses name other than my own. I'm not attached to either of my names.

[Arioch]

I say, let women keep their last names. I see no reason why they should change at all.

On a side note if feminists are against changing the last name are they also against wedding rings and the colour pink? If I recall my history well wedding rings used to mean "I'm someone elses property"

Although I suppose that these days they say it's for eternal love or some hooha.

[mgb]

I expect that I will be taking my wife's last name.

I don't like mine or the family it comes from and it is easier to change your name in marriage than to legally change it.

[EdwinJefferson]

On a side note if feminists are against changing the last name are they also against wedding rings and the colour pink?

I'm sure I've already said.. or booyalab spoke for me.. and said pink was a boys colour a hundred or so years ago as it was seen as strong and vibrant, and blue was a girls colour because it was sensitive and soft.

[EdwinJefferson]

I expect that I will be taking my wife's last name.

I don't like mine or the family it comes from and it is easier to change your name in marriage than to legally change it.

I said it first...

[Seraph]

Wow, what a douche. God forbid the lady would want to maintain her lineage. Control freak.

If and when I get married, I'll change my last name to his, but only because my last name is really gross (almost pornographic-sounding).

[songbird36]

I've been divorced for a long time and still go under my ex husband's name...guess I must be pathetic and politically incorrect

[Shai Gar]

her lineage? this is the thing i am talking about. this is where logic comes into play? because she got this lineage from her father who got it from his father. it is a record thing. and her lineage is not destroyed by her taking another's name, it is strengthened. all of her female ancestors have taken the males name she would be weakening her lineage.

i love that phrase "control freak" it always comes off as a blonde malibu girl who is pissed that she isnt allowed to drink and drive and drive on the left side of the road "pah yeeahhh, like fer shure, you know, like, whatever, uhh control freak much?"

[Clara]

I've been divorced for a long time and still go under my ex husband's name...guess I must be pathetic and politically incorrect
songbird34 :cheers: to political incorrectitude, and doing things for reasons of our choosing.


(Shai Gar, it's like that old recipe, paraphrased. "First you have to meet the young woman..." You may have a few conversations with her, between then and waiting with bated breath, for her answer to your proposal of marriage.) ;)

[matthew0028]

her lineage? this is the thing i am talking about. this is where logic comes into play? because she got this lineage from her father who got it from his father. it is a record thing. and her lineage is not destroyed by her taking another's name, it is strengthened. all of her female ancestors have taken the males name she would be weakening her lineage.

About the only reason to prefer the male last name over the female one is tradition. I see nothing wrong with someone choosing which lineage to support. Besides, I think that just because she doesn't choose to take a different name, she isn't "weakening" her lineage, nor would she be strengthening it by taking her husband's last name.

And as I generally dislike doing something purely for tradition's sake, especially if one prefers to do it the other way...


I'm sure I've already said.. or booyalab spoke for me.. and said pink was a boys colour a hundred or so years ago as it was seen as strong and vibrant, and blue was a girls colour because it was sensitive and soft.

Though to be fair, what's important for stuff like this isn't how something was perceived in the past (as that is no longer relevant), but how it's perceived in the here and now. Assuming others' perceptions matter to you...

[Claverhouse]

Golly, what does it matter whether a woman changes her name, or whether a man owns a woman ? This is frivolous.

That being said, I personally wouldn't marry one who didn't, but it's up to her. I adore tradition: keeps us on-track. ( Not the traditions that involve exploiting animals though... )

Anyway up in various parts of the Northlands they have the tradition that a woman takes her mother's christian name and suffixes it, thus say: Kristine Karensdottir, whilst a man has his father's name suffixed this: Lars Kristofersen. Sometimes they change it on marriage and sometimes not. Judging by the depressing effect of Swedish feminisation, I would guess not nowadays.

Here's an explanation of Norwegian naming practices:
Norway Heritage (http://www.norwayheritage.com/articles/templates/genealogy.asp?articleid=2&zoneid=2)

It says that they only adopted surnames a century ago, which must be some kind of record. Even the jews ( who rather objected to the idea ) accepted the names they were given by the paternal authorities a century before that ( the idea that they were deliberately handed unkind names is a myth and a slur on the Germans: presumably some loon thought 'Goldwater' say, sounded rather nice :whistle: ).



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Network Alchemy]

pornographic sounding last names remind me of an old friend of mine i recently conjured name harry hunt

[int]

My wife had a unique Latvian last name and didn't want to give it up. So, since she hated her middle name she just made her maiden name her middle name and took mine for her last.

Now she's moved up on the classroom roster (except, those damn Andersons are always ahead of us). I give a big "Meh" to the whole thing.

But now that we're having kids my name is probably the most logical choice and doesn't get slaughtered by anyone trying to pronounce it (unlike her maiden name). Plus, it won't get made of half as much.

[Shai Gar]

okay i am getting bored with egging you guys on. if you think this is a decent topic for conversation then please carry on. but i am off. thank you for providing me with amusement

[Vagabond]

but i am off. Finally good news.

[Shai Gar]

now i am back.

[Vagabond]

Promises, promises.... tsk.

[Serotonin]

okay i am getting bored with egging you guys on
Please stay that way. Nothing worse than a shitstirrer who posts for the sole purpose of being a shitstirrer. Very cp6, wouldn't you say Vagabond?

[Vagabond]

Please stay that way. Nothing worse than a shitstirrer who posts for the sole purpose of being a shitstirrer. Very cp6, wouldn't you say Vagabond? I was thinking exactly the same thing. Heheh. :cheers:

[Shai Gar]

why am i supposed to care? i posted it because i wanted to rant, and we can say anything in the flamethrower section. you guys posting heatedly did prompt me to defend the viewpoint i care little about. so if you think about it me egging you on was your own fault.

a brilliant peice of logic if i do say so myself

[int]

lol. Yep...That's the funny thing about "logic" - if I do say so myself. :D

[Network Alchemy]

~and they all believe they can walk farther~

[Miss Anthropic]

Why does it matter what the last name of your wife is? Its OK. Shai Gar would have to shanghai a woman to marry him so it won't be a problem (Uh-oh, incurring the wrath of Shai Gar) :whistle:

I like your new avatar mgbradsh. I should update as well, I'm sort of tired of the ominous Irkin symbol.....

[mgb]

Its OK. Shai Gar would have to shanghai a woman to marry him so it won't be a problem (Uh-oh, incurring the wrath of Shai Gar) :whistle:

I like your new avatar mgbradsh. I should update as well, I'm sort of tired of the ominous Irkin symbol.....

Thanks, indiejade hated it, plus, I like to try and keep it fresh.

That's ok, I feel like every time I say his name there should be a piano in the background, duh duh duuuhh. haa haa

[Miss Anthropic]

Thanks, indiejade hated it, plus, I like to try and keep it fresh.
Oh damn you replied too soon, I edited because I spelled Shai Gar's name wrong and now I will incur more wrath....ohno oh :cry: nooooooo

[Serotonin]

Yeah, mgbradsh, what was with that bearded guy whacking that cowbell? He seemed vaguely familiar, though I can't put my finger on it....

[Boneca]

Anyway up in various parts of the Northlands they have the tradition that a woman takes her mother's christian name and suffixes it, thus say: Kristine Karensdottir, whilst a man has his father's name suffixed this: Lars Kristofersen. They still do this in Iceland.
Actually, I think it's rather silly with our surnames, because when this tradition was abandoned, the "son of" names were kept as family names, while the "daughter of" names were just abandoned. But how can a woman be called f.ex. Johansson (son of Johan)?
But then again I suppose it doesn't matter. Most surnames don't make sense anyway, they just exist for recordkeeping purposes.

[matthew0028]

Yeah, mgbradsh, what was with that bearded guy whacking that cowbell? He seemed vaguely familiar, though I can't put my finger on it....

I'm pretty sure I saw it in a Saturday Night Live sketch once.

[mgb]

I'm pretty sure I saw it in a Saturday Night Live sketch once.

It wasn't "a" Saturday Night Live Sketch, it was "the" Saturday Night Live sketch. The VH1 Behind the Music: Blue Oyster Cult, Don't Fear the Reaper sketch. It might be the best sketch SNL has ever done. The guest star was Christopher Walken.

http://www.milkandcookies.com/article/2651/

[MacGuffin]

I'm pretty sure I saw it in a Saturday Night Live sketch once.

It's Will Ferrell

"I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell!"

http://snltranscripts.jt.org/99/99pcowbell.phtml

[Arioch]

I'm sure I've already said.. or booyalab spoke for me.. and said pink was a boys colour a hundred or so years ago as it was seen as strong and vibrant, and blue was a girls colour because it was sensitive and soft.

And in the 15th century blue was chosen as a colour for boys because it was thought to ward off spirits while pink was chosen for girls because it was complimentary

[EdwinJefferson]

And in the 15th century blue was chosen as a colour for boys because it was thought to ward off spirits while pink was chosen for girls because it was complimentary

So it'll flip again soon - just like the poles do...

[Serotonin]

Thanks mgbradsh and MacGuffin... a pity here in Australia we don't import SNL.

[booyalab]

Thanks mgbradsh and MacGuffin... a pity here in Australia we don't import SNL.

you're not missing much, it mostly sucks now

[MacGuffin]

you're not missing much, it mostly sucks now

Other than Tina Fey (who has that librarian hottie thing goin' on) I agree.

[Dman]

What's funny about SNL is that my whole life, whatever current season of SNL is playing, people say it sucks and isn't as good as it used to be. But in 5 years, we'll look back at the current SNL and say "that was classic!"

Everyone thought it sucked when Adam Sandler was on, Norm Mcdonald, Chris Farley, Phil Hartman, Rob Schneider, Will Ferrel, etc. Now those are all cool though. Isn't that weird? I wonder if it has more to do with what the actors do after their gone from SNL.

[synchronous]

Thanks mgbradsh and MacGuffin... a pity here in Australia we don't import SNL.

We don't get SNL in Austria either, but, there is an equivalent called, "Samstag Nacht" and you don't really need to know much German to understand the context of the sketches. They are quite funny. Sadly, my hubby and I watch on MSNBC previously viewed, "The Tonight Show" and "Conan O'Brien" on Saturday and Sunday nights.

[synchronous]

BTW, over the last few weeks, I've been contemplating changing my name back to my maiden name. I still use my ex-husband's last name because I've been too lazy to do all the paperwork to make the changeover. This thread has been amusing and quite timely... :)

[Miss Anthropic]

BTW, over the last few weeks, I've been contemplating changing my name back to my maiden name. I still use my ex-husband's last name because I've been too lazy to do all the paperwork to make the changeover. This thread has been amusing and quite timely... :)
Me too! The papers say I'm using my former name, but its too damned much trouble to change everything. Besides, both names are equivalently common.

[Clara]

When people marry in Quebec, no one's name changes (unless they do paperwork) - the law on married names changed in 1980 (I think). Before that, health insurance records used women's maiden names (though for other legal purposes, their married names were their legal names)... so when the law changed, some said, "Good, at least all the paperwork can match."

On registering babies' names, the parents decide whether the child will carry the father's, or the mother's, or some combination of both, surname(s).

[s]

I use my married and maiden name. I write all my names out or initial the first three. I think it reflects the whole me. My maiden name is patrilineal, but it gives a respectful nod to my past (one that I fucking earned).

[Shai Gar]

i have decided to not allow my son or daughter to carry a surname

[ohnoaninfp]

Hey I like my Maiden name. It's unique. It's also Irish and I am proud to be of the Millea family. It doesan't make me a feminist because I don't want to lose it to a common name like smith. I will probably take Millea as a professional name for singing. Whats your deal anyway? Why does it bother you so much that some girls don't want to give up their maiden names?

[ohnoaninfp]

Gimme a break...

She doesn't have to take my name because she's won my heart.

Besides, I know many women that use both. It depends on the situation, business or personal.

Damn, if she uses a hyphen, does that mean she's loves you less? A woman will marry ME, not my name.

Not a big deal.
aww! :wub:

[Hawkon]

Heh.. this is a hot topic in Norway. You rarely see women changing their last names. Their children end up having both 2 and 3 last names. I mean, come on! It gets even worse when they have a middle name. Jon Ola Bjerke Bakk Lund.

For the sake of the future, find yourself a house/farm/place with a given name, you both take that name because you're actually from that place!

Those are my wise words tonight.

[songbird36]

Heh.. this is a hot topic in Norway. You rarely see women changing their last names. Their children end up having both 2 and 3 last names. I mean, come on! It gets even worse when they have a middle name. Jon Ola Bjerke Bakk Lund.

For the sake of the future, find yourself a house/farm/place with a given name, you both take that name because you're actually from that place!

Those are my wise words tonight.

Good idea, but what happens when you sell the farm and move elsewhere?

lol

[Geoff]

And what if you live in a block of dwellings. Would be tricky to work out who a letter was for...

-Geoff

[Vagabond]

I think a women keeps her maiden name by default here, unless she decides to go through lots of paperword and bureaucracy to change it. That has nothing to do with the kids' last name though - they get the father's last name by default, unless the couple chooses otherwise. I know that, in civil weddings at least, the couple is asked what last name they want to choose for the children they will possibly have. Though usually it is the father's name anyway.

[Dman]

How about when married, male keeps his last name & female keeps hers; when children come into the picture, boy keeps dad's last name, girl keeps mom's.

[Geoff]

Ahh but what about the transsexuals and undecideds!

-Geoff

[Geoff]

I think it is a shame when a pretty surname disappears because of assuming the husbands.

I know a lady with the rather pretty name of 'Starling' who changed it for something much less attractive because of marriage. Seems like a shame to me!

-Geoff

[Hawkon]

How about when married, male keeps his last name & female keeps hers; when children come into the picture, boy keeps dad's last name, girl keeps mom's.

That's back to the vikings, heh.. if they take their parents first name as last name, that is.

Boy takes father's name: Bork Eriksson (son of Erik)
Girl takes mother's name: Gudrun Torildattir (dattir=daughter, daughter of Toril).

It'd make me Håkon Steinarsson, and my son Whatever Håkonsson.

hmm.. sounds cool. I'll mention that to my g/f ;)

[Dman]

That's back to the vikings, heh.. if they take their parents first name as last name, that is.

Boy takes father's name: Bork Eriksson (son of Erik)
Girl takes mother's name: Gudrun Torildattir (dattir=daughter, daughter of Toril).

It'd make me Håkon Steinarsson, and my son Whatever Håkonsson.

hmm.. sounds cool. I'll mention that to my g/f ;)

I am of Norwegian ancestry, so it must be our common sense of logic!

[ohnoaninfp]

How about when married, male keeps his last name & female keeps hers; when children come into the picture, boy keeps dad's last name, girl keeps mom's.

I would let my children have my husband's latst name, besides I probably have more say in their first names.

[Dman]

I would let my children have my husband's latst name, besides I probably have more say in their first names.

Ahh, yes, but the last name has the potential to be carried forward indefinitely through the generations

[QrioCT]

in Iceland, they dont even have last names.

the usefulness of getting it from ur family is so u can identify people's families, but its actually more used for better identifying a person. (like thats how we knew the difference between john edward and john kerry)

but i guess theres some use to be grouped with families. so why not just work up some kind of a combination for a family name for the kid between the mom and dad? (a combination, not a connection. if u keep connecting last names soon it would get really long). you can still know who is whose parents...but some of the grandparents' part of last names wont be included in the kid's last name. and there's going to be arguments on if its the grandma's last name or grandpa's last name that the kid isn't going to get a part of. or maybe you could squeeze both in.

our current european system works well, except that you cant identify a person's maternal grandparents. and theres people mad at it.