this explains a thing or two

[demagogic_schizoid]

Instructions from an islamist website on how to use forums for spreading propoganda. I'm watching you Somnus:ph34r:


Islamist Website Instructs Mujahideen in Using Popular U.S. Web Forums to Foster Anti-War Sentiment among Americans

In the past few months, Islamists engaged in "media jihad" have increased their efforts to expose as broad a Western audience as possible to their jihad films, which purport to document the growing success of the mujahideen in Iraq and Afghanistan. As part of this endeavor, they have posted jihad films on popular free video-sharing websites such as YouTube, LiveLeak, and Google Video, hoping that such films will tip public opinion in the West against the war in Iraq and Afghanistan - thus pressuring Western governments to withdraw their troops from these countries.
As part of the campaign to foster anti-war sentiment among Westerners, and more specifically among Americans, a member of the Al-Mohajroon Islamist website with the username Al-Wathiq Billah instructed mujahideen in how to infiltrate popular American forums and to use them to distribute jihad films and spread disinformation about the war.
The following are excerpts: [1] (http://www.memri.org/bin/opener_latest.cgi?ID=SD150807#_edn1)
"Raiding American Forums is Among the Most Important Means of Obtaining Victory in the Fierce Media War? and of Influencing the Views of the Weak-Minded American"
"There is no doubt, my brothers, that raiding American forums is among the most important means of obtaining victory in the fierce media war... and of influencing the views of the weak-minded American who pays his taxes so they will go to the infidel American army. This American is an idiot and does not [even] know where Iraq is... mandatory for every electronic [I]mujahid [to engage in this raiding]."
"It is better that you raid non-political forums such as music forums and trivia forums... which American people... favor... Define your target[ed forum]... and get to know it well... Post your contribution and do not get into... futile arguments..."

Indicate You Are an American
"Obviously, you have to register yourself using a purely American name... Choose an icon that indicates that you are an American, and place it next to your nickname ."
"In my experience, the areas most visited in American forums... [are titled] 'Random Thoughts' and 'What's going on in your mind?'... [The former] takes priority in the American forums, and is highly popular. You should post your contribution there... This should include films of the [I]mujahideen in Iraq, mujahideen publications in English, and images and films of the Americans' crimes, [such as] killing unarmed civilians in Iraq... etc."

"Invent Stories About American Soldiers You Have [Allegedly] Personally Known"
"Obviously, you should post your contribution... as an American... You should correspond with visitors to this forum, the frustrating situation of their troops in Iraq... You should invent stories about American soldiers you have [allegedly] personally known (as classmates... or members in a club who played baseball and tennis with you) who were drafted to Iraq and then committed suicide while in service by hanging or shooting themselves..."
"Also, write using a sad tone, and tell them that you feel sorry for your [female] neighbor or co-worker who became addicted to alcohol or drugs... because her poor fianc?, a former soldier in Iraq, was paralyzed or [because] his legs were amputated... [Use any story] which will break their spirits, oh brave fighter for the sake of God..."

[B]How to Make Americans Feel Frustrated With Their Government
"You should enter into debate or respond only if it is extremely necessary... Your concern should [only] be introducing topics which... will cause [them to feel] frustration and anger towards their government..., which will... render them hostile to Bush... and his Republican Party and make them feel they must vote ton bring the troops back from Iraq as soon as possible."
"Do not... discuss issues pertaining to Arabs or Muslims at all, whether negatively or positively... because this could be a trap for you... In addition, do not ask people to circulate the material [you have posted] in other forums... as these types of requests will expose you..."

http://www.memri.org/bin/opener_latest.cgi?ID=SD150807

[Madrigal]

So that's why Americans hate Bush. Yeah. You hit the nail on the head this time, ds. :D

[Pan]

Or: "I have a cunning plan... we'll join their forums, and contribute peacefully to their discussions about the middle east. Hah, take that!"

Oh, will the cycle never be broken?

[meanlittlechimp]

We definitely have a few on this board. Tricky devils.

[Ivy]

Or: "I have a cunning plan... we'll join their forums, and contribute peacefully to their discussions about the middle east. Hah, take that!"

Oh, will the cycle never be broken?

:highfive:

[demagogic_schizoid]

Or: "I have a cunning plan... we'll join their forums, and contribute peacefully to their discussions about the middle east. Hah, take that!"

Oh, will the cycle never be broken?

Propaganda is part of war.

[omnirook]

We do it, they do it, everybody does - who cares? People - no matter who - are plank stupid and stick to their ingrained attitudes like flies on shit. God help anyone who believes that an American - or any other type of - blockhead will have his opinions changed via reasonable arguments. Propaganda works, but only if it is aimed at existing notions. Jung said it best: "People will believe only what they are willing to believe, no matter the evidence that one presents."

[demagogic_schizoid]

We do it, they do it, everybody does - who cares? People - no matter who - are plank stupid and stick to their ingrained attitudes like flies on shit. God help anyone who believes that an American - or any other type of - blockhead will have his opinions changed via reasonable arguments. Propaganda works, but only if it is aimed at existing notions. Jung said it best: "People will believe only what they are willing to believe, no matter the evidence that one presents."

Thanks for that, Holden Cauldfield.:rolleyes: If you've already made up your mind that people=shit and there's no hope and no point in choosing between different options for the future, why do you even bother commenting on these threads? Basically your posts are just nihilistic.

[omnirook]

Thanks for that, Holden Cauldfield.:rolleyes: If you've already made up your mind that people=shit and there's no hope and no point in choosing between different options for the future, why do you even bother commenting on these threads? Basically your posts are just nihilistic.

I'm a disciple of Schopenhauer, of course - it alleviates boredom.

[demagogic_schizoid]

personally I think you have an agenda, but you won't state it. you come onto threads which you disagree with as an "impartial" observer. Basically it seems that your argument is that all opinions are bullshit. Except of course that this is in itself just your opinion. So the subtext is that you know the truth and no-one else does. Yet you refuse to go into your view of "the truth" so that we can test if this is true.

[Stoned_Rider]

I think you pretend to be disinterested and cynical and refuse to nail your colours to the mast because it means no-one can pin you down on anything.
you know, you know, the Artful Dodger (http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/artfuldodger.htm) do it like that... :headphone:

[demagogic_schizoid]

you know, you know, the Artful Dodger (http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/artfuldodger.htm) do it like that... :headphone:

damn I edited the post to sound more eloquent. you've shown me up.:sadbanana:

[omnirook]

personally I think you have an agenda, but you won't state it. you come onto threads which you disagree with as an "impartial" observer. Basically it seems that your argument is that all opinions are bullshit. Except of course that this is in itself just your opinion. So the subtext is that you know the truth and no-one else does. Yet you refuse to go into your view of "the truth" so that we can test if this is true.

And who doesn't? What world do you live in? Everyone has an agenda. Everyone. Some agendas are benign - but they are still agendas.

I have never, ever, not anywhere on this Forum posed as "impartial" - indeed, I have gone out of my way to acknowledge that I am judgemental and opionated.

As for my view of the truth, I keep a blog. I was scolded for "spoiling" other threads w/my view of the truth. Summary: truth is unknown and unknowable; honesty is the best that we can do. Honesty comes in many forms - sometimes, telling a lie is the best form of honesty! Therefore, you might reasonably assume that in addition to Schopenhauer I have studied Wilde: what we can apprehend of the truth can only be apprehended via paradox. Also, as a student of Wilde, I hold his maxim dear: Give a man a mask, and he will tell you the truth. Hence my insistence upon maintaining my anonymity. Hence the ventriloquist's dummy that I use for an avatar. I have created a character named "omnirook," and I use the MASK of omnirook so that I can be honest where and when honesty counts - a web of small lies told to make real honesty possible. "omnirook" - a made up word, meaning "all enclosing" - meaning that I am willing to embrace all things, at least for a little while. "Consistency is the refuge of the unimaginative" - Oscar Wilde ... I have been quite up front all along. My screen persona is a fabrication (like everyone's) - only I am willing to admit that it is a fabrication - put together so that I can be honest w/o compromising myself and my dear ones.

[demagogic_schizoid]

In that case, in plain English, what is the value of a reply such as this:


We do it, they do it, everybody does - who cares? People - no matter who - are plank stupid and stick to their ingrained attitudes like flies on shit. God help anyone who believes that an American - or any other type of - blockhead will have his opinions changed via reasonable arguments. Propaganda works, but only if it is aimed at existing notions. Jung said it best: "People will believe only what they are willing to believe, no matter the evidence that one presents."

You're having a rant on this thread which appears to be unrelated to the thread. But you seem to think it counts as a rebuttal to the OP. How?

[omnirook]

In that case, in plain English, what is the value of a reply such as this:



You're having a rant on this thread which appears to be unrelated to the thread. But you seem to think it counts as a rebuttal to the OP. How?

It wasn't a rebuttal. It was an acknowledgement that propaganda exists and that both sides use it. The OP seemed to be put up w/the idea that something astonishing were being revealed. My reaction was - yeah, so?

The instructions from a western propagandist would read pretty much as the instructions posted, only the directions would be to glamorize the West. So?

[demagogic_schizoid]

It wasn't a rebuttal. It was an acknowledgement that propaganda exists and that both sides use it. The OP seemed to be put up w/the idea that something astonishing were being revealed. My reaction was - yeah, so?

The instructions from a western propagandist would read pretty much as the instructions posted, only the directions would be to glamorize the West. So?

I don't think it's supposed to be astonishing that the Islamists are using propaganda, it's supposed to be interesting that this particular tactic is being employed. I myself found it quite amusing anyway, that forums should have become so important.

There are many tangents this thread could go on. People could have taken it as an opportunity to discuss the increasing importance of the internet in shaping politicla discourse and providing a more interactive an egalitarian alternative to the mainstream media.

They could have talked about how it's interesting that people from across the world who would previosuly have been inaccesible to each other can now wage a pseudo-war or make pseudo-alliances over the internet, and how one day this may have an affect on politics in the real world itself.

They could have admired the intelligence of the islamists at spotting the power of this medium, or laughed at them for thinking anyone pays attention to what they post on a forum.

They could have taken the chance to learn about the actual shape that the propaganda in this war takes as, you know, some people might actually find that interesting.

Hell, they could have even decided to take a side and decide that they wanted to oppose the propaganda of one side more than another because they think one visions for the future is better than another.

I don't know, the thread is what you make of it. If you can't make anything more of it than a juvenile rant about how much you hate humanity, that speaks volumes about you and little about the OP.

[omnirook]

I don't think it's supposed to be astonishing that the Islamists are using propaganda, it's supposed to be interesting that this particular tactic is being employed. I myself found it quite amusing anyway, that forums should have become so important.

There are many tangents this thread could go on. People could have taken it as an opportunity to discuss the increasing importance of the internet in shaping politicla discourse and providing a more interactive an egalitarian alternative to the mainstream media.

They could have talked about how it's interesting that people from across the world who would previosuly have been inaccesible to each other can now wage a pseudo-war or make pseudo-alliances over the internet, and how one day this may have an affect on politics in the real world itself.

They could have admired the intelligence of the islamists at spotting the power of this medium, or laughed at them for thinking anyone pays attention to what they post on a forum.

They could have taken the chance to learn about the actual shape that the propaganda in this war takes as, you know, some people might actually find that interesting.

Hell, they could have even decided to take a side and decide that they wanted to oppose the propaganda of one side more than another because they think one visions for the future is better than another.

I don't know, the thread is what you make of it. If you can't make anything more of it than a juvenile rant about how much you hate humanity, that speaks volumes about you and little about the OP.

I don't hate humanity - like Al Pacino's character in "Devil's Advocate," I love humanity for what it is - not what it would like to be - or at least convince others that it should be, so that guilt is a powerful weapon in the arsenal of those who play mind games.

"God is a sadist! Look but don't touch. Taste but don't swallow ... God is a fucking absentee landlord!"

The next time that you want others to play by your rules, your OP should list those rules, such as "Thou shalt be impressed w/technology and its wonders" and "Thou shalt not believe that humans are humans, no matter the gizmos."

Otherwise, you get what you got - somebody who took a look at it, said, "But, of course - what difference could technology make?" and a "So, what?" Anyone who doesn't take his news w/a pinch of salt - or at least a grain - is a fool. For all you know, I'm an Islamacist progandist - as you could be, for all I know.

[demagogic_schizoid]

you don't have to play by my rules, you can reply however you want. I'm simply evaluating your response as you did to my post. If you prefer to give crap replies thasn good ones, that's up to you, but don't blame it on the OP. If you can't intuit a good way to respond it's not my fault.

[omnirook]

you don't have to play by my rules, you can reply however you want. I'm simply evaluating your response as you did to my post. If you prefer to give crap replies thasn good ones, that's up to you, but don't blame it on the OP. If you can't intuit a good way to respond it's not my fault.

You and Lee go to the same school? Well, you're a little better - you call me an idiot, but you're willing to talk w/me.

is as was as will - summary of my philiosophy.

All is variation on a theme. There is only one theme, no matter how many variations there may be. Humanity has presented the universe w/a small repretoire of variations. Joseph Campbell suggested that there were 7 human variations, which might be told in an infinite number of superficially different ways. The top 3, the most loved, were: hero/savior and villain, war, and starcrossed lovers. Your post falls into the category "war" - until someone bravely exposes the moles - then we have our heroes and our villains. We could mix it up a bit and include a Mata Hari love story - then the papers would really sell. Nothing like a spy story w/a doomed love affair nested in it.

If you want to sell a story, get it published and be called a genius, you must tell a version of one of the 7 variations that humanity subscribes to - otherwise, no one will read your story. Campbell spent his life learning languages and reading stories from all over the world. He collected and sorted thousands of stories and made out a very convincing case that all of humanity throughout history had told the same handful of stories over and over again, changing only names and places and settings. The meanings were universal. The resurrected hero is the number one favorite and has been told all over the world for thousands of years. The authors of the Jesus Myth did such a good job that billions have accepted it as "gospel truth" and are willing to die to maintain it as literally true - not realizing that its allegorical truth is where its true strength lies.

[Zergling]

This doesn't seem a big deal. During the Nush years, a lot has been screwed up, with some bad policies, many of which came from the administration. Similarily, whether or not this report is real, and whether or not islamists want these wars to stop, the wars do eat up lots of money, lives, and other resources, and there are good reasons to cut back on them. I'm not too worried about these groups being able to do much at all, either to change opinions or effect policies, mainly because they have different aims than people who are supposed to be mainpulated, so very little opinion can be changed.


That at least is what my friend in the Marines named Bob told me, and I agree with him. I hope you all will include this opinion on ENTP and MBTI central to spread the views around.

Signed: Muhammed akbar, Tehran. :devil:

(The first part is serious, if badly written, the second is not.)

[demagogic_schizoid]

This doesn't seem a big deal. During the Nush years, a lot has been screwed up, with some bad policies, many of which came from the administration. Similarily, whether or not this report is real, and whether or not islamists want these wars to stop, the wars do eat up lots of money, lives, and other resources, and there are good reasons to cut back on them. I'm not too worried about these groups being able to do much at all, either to change opinions or effect policies, mainly because they have different aims than people who are supposed to be mainpulated, so very little opinion can be changed.


That at least is what my friend in the Marines named Bob told me, and I agree with him. I hope you all will include this opinion on ENTP and MBTI central to spread the views around.

Signed: Muhammed akbar, Tehran. :devil:

(The first part is serious, if badly written, the second is not.)

terrrist:bigguns:

[Ellipsis]

Could not the stupid US goverment do that too...O I forgot...they are...look at fox...:P...and every other news station before the war started...

It is just that the US dicided that you have to accaully support your opinion with facts on the internet...(well on the smart sites)
As for the guy who said we should post peaceful threads on extremist sites...point one out to me...I want to piss off some terrorists (no matter how dangourous that might be)