Iran captures British Sailors

[demagogic_schizoid]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6489493.stm


The 15 Royal Navy personnel seized at gunpoint in the Gulf by Iranian forces have been transferred to Tehran, Iranian news agency Fars has reported.
The personnel reportedly arrived in the Iranian capital at 1200 local time.

The UK says the eight sailors and seven marines had been carrying out routine duties in Iraqi waters. It has called for their immediate release.

Tehran says the 15 were "illegally" in Iranian waters. They would be asked to explain their actions, Fars said.

In other developments, Iranian armed forces spokesman Gen Ali Reza Afshar told Iranian radio the Britons were in "sterling health" and had admitted to being in Iranian waters.

And the BBC has also learned that Foreign Office junior minister Lord Triesman will meet Iran's ambassador to London on Saturday to demand their release.

'Aggressive action'

The Fars news agency says the group was flown to Iran's capital.

Fars said the captured personnel would be asked to explain their "aggressive action".

Satellite tracking systems on the British boats also proved they were inside Iranian waters, it added.

The 15 - who include one woman - were seized after boarding a boat in the Gulf.

They were from HMS Cornwall, based in Plymouth - the flagship of the coalition-Iraqi force which patrols Iraqi territorial waters in the northern Gulf to combat smuggling.

'No fighting'

The Cornwall's commander, Commodore Nick Lambert, said they had been inspecting an Iraqi boat, in Iraqi waters, before clearing its skipper to continue with his business.

When they returned to their two small boats, they were "promptly arrested".

The helicopter then saw the British boats being moved along the Shatt al-Arab waterway to Iranian bases, Cmdr Lambert said.

There had been no evidence of fighting, he added.

Diplomats have held talks in Tehran and London since Friday's incident.

Ibrahim Rahimpour, Iran's director general for Western European affairs, said he had met the UK's charge d'affaires, Kate Smith, in Tehran.

He said in a statement that he had delivered a "firm protest from Iran against the illegal entry of British sailors into Iranian territorial waters".



HMS Cornwall's area of operations
But former Royal Navy head Adm Sir Alan West dismissed suggestions the British boats had strayed into Iranian waters.

Sir Alan was first sea lord in 2004 when Iran detained eight British servicemen for three days after they allegedly strayed over the maritime border.

The men were paraded blindfolded and made to apologise on Iranian TV before their release was agreed.

Sir Alan told BBC News that tracking systems then had proven that the servicemen had been in Iraqi waters.

"They can do lots of smokescreens and things like that but I am absolutely clear in my mind it would have been in our waters," he said.

The Ministry of Defence has been in contact with relatives of the group.

Because of a long holiday period in Iran there has been little public comment.

The US military said it had been monitoring Iran's Revolutionary Guards - an elite fighting force appointed by the country's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei - "for years now" in Iraqi territorial waters.

Tehran question

BBC world affairs correspondent, Ian Pannell, who was earlier on board HMS Cornwall, said the mood on the ship was "quiet and determined" and that "the aspiration here is that this will be over sooner rather than later".

And the BBC's Bridget Kendall said the big question was whether the capture was part of a bigger political game, ahead of a UN Security Council vote in New York over further sanctions against Iran's nuclear programme.

But Sadegh Ziba Kalam, professor of politics at Tehran University, dismissed the idea that the seizure was a political move ahead of the vote.

"Everyone knows that would not change anything," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

The seizure also follows claims that much of the violence against UK forces in Basra is being engineered by Iranian elements, which Tehran denies.



Does this sort of thing happen without orders from the top? Is this the spark both sides have been waiting for? How ugly do we think this is going to get?

[tinribz]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6489493.stm





Does this sort of thing happen without orders from the top? Is this the spark both sides have been waiting for? How ugly do we think this is going to get?
I'm in two minds about this, either it is part of a strategy that we don't have enough information on yet to determine. Or a bizarre random cock-up by the Iranians.

I get the impression it was pre-meditated but that could still just come down to a maverick local commander. I don't think it will get ugly but I still would not like to be in their shoes right now.

[demagogic_schizoid]

I'm in two minds about this, either it is part of a strategy that we don't have enough information on yet to determine. Or a bizarre random cock-up by the Iranians.

I get the impression it was pre-meditated but that could still just come down to a maverick local commander. I don't think it will get ugly but I still would not like to be in their shoes right now.

Maybe they are using it to emasculate us in front of the whole world and improve their standing amongst America's enemies and countries split between boh sides. Also, increased instability in the region raises oil prices.

[TheSuspect]

One side of me wants to go hillbilly crazy and wipe them off the face of the earth, but then again, I'm kind of against coalition forces being in that area, too. Strange situation! =S

I don't think it is going to get ugly, this is just an irritating act by Iran... But hey, they are 15, and Israel started a war against Lebanon with one man as excuse for their actions... But Iran is bigger fish. It is even possible they would kick the shit out of invaders, who knows.

[darlets]

Does this concern anyone else???
http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/topstories.aspx?ID=BD4A421026

Iran now has hostages and is refusing to cooperate with the U.N on inspection of nuclear plants.

[Stoned_Rider]

Does this concern anyone else???
http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/topstories.aspx?ID=BD4A421026

Iran now has hostages and is refusing to cooperate with the U.N on inspection of nuclear plants.
Already a thread. Merged and changed the title to your one (demagogic_schizoid's title wasn't clear).

[Jivinjeffjones]

This won't be enough to start anything, though it isn't helping. Chances are good that the muslim world will a priori believe that the brits were in the wrong, as the western world will likewise believe Iran was in the wrong. America's resources are too stretched already to invade Iran, and the rest of the world lack either the will or the balls to do anything themselves. The UN will tut tut about it all (assuming they are feeling especially forceful) and leave it at that.

[demagogic_schizoid]

This won't be enough to start anything, though it isn't helping. Chances are good that the muslim world will a priori believe that the brits were in the wrong, as the western world will likewise believe Iran was in the wrong.

Well, they are accused of espionage. Part of the definition of espionage is that spies don't wear uniform. These guys were in their Royal Marines uniform. The whole thing is a stunt by Ahmadeenijad to play to the crowds at home and abroad.

[darlets]

This won't be enough to start anything, though it isn't helping. Chances are good that the muslim world will a priori believe that the brits were in the wrong, as the western world will likewise believe Iran was in the wrong. America's resources are too stretched already to invade Iran, and the rest of the world lack either the will or the balls to do anything themselves. The UN will tut tut about it all (assuming they are feeling especially forceful) and leave it at that.

The U.S and British have captured Iranians operatives on Iraq soil since the beginning of the Invasion.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,124835,00.html
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/01/11/africa/web.0111raid.php
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/29/AR2006122901510.html

It's well within America's military capacity to engage in an Air Campaign against Iran.

The U.S don't randomly sail its Carrier Battle Groups around the world either,
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L26410799.htm

http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_1888.shtml
"The long awaited US military attack on Iran is now on track for the first week of April, specifically for 4 am on April 6, the Good Friday opening of Easter weekend, writes the well-known Russian journalist Andrei Uglanov in the Moscow weekly ?Argumenty Nedeli.? Uglanov cites Russian military experts close to the Russian General Staff for his account."

[TheGiftofWork]

This is a striking measure by the Iranians as far as strategy is concerned. Great Britian is planning to pull troops out of southern Iraq. Southern Iraq is where the Shia religious group mostly are centered. Iran aids them. Would it not be reasonable to think that Iran is trying to control Iraq in some ways? If that were true, which I believe it is, a British pullout would benefit them greatly.

Yet they take a negative action. So for Iran to arrest and interrogate British soldiers is quite provacative.

Maybe the loony UN sanctions are getting to them...

[darlets]

This is a striking measure by the Iranians as far as strategy is concerned. Great Britian is planning to pull troops out of southern Iraq. Southern Iraq is where the Shia religious group mostly are centered. Iran aids them. Would it not be reasonable to think that Iran is trying to control Iraq in some ways? If that were true, which I believe it is, a British pullout would benefit them greatly.

Yet they take a negative action. So for Iran to arrest and interrogate British soldiers is quite provacative.

Maybe the loony UN sanctions are getting to them...

This is a complete and utter guess, they could be trying to stop the British troops from being redeployed to Afghanistan. My understanding is that's where they are headed.

[demagogic_schizoid]

U.S. Navy Flexes Muscles in Persian Gulf
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8O4PGNO0&show_article=1

ABOARD THE USS JOHN C. STENNIS (AP) - American warplanes screamed off two aircraft carriers Tuesday as the U.S. Navy staged its largest show of force in the Persian Gulf (http://search.breitbart.com/q?s=%22Persian+Gulf%22&sid=breitbart.com) since the 2003 invasion of Iraq, launching a mammoth exercise meant as a message to the Iranians.

The maneuvers with 15 warships and more than 100 aircraft were sure to heighten tensions with Iran, which has frequently condemned the U.S. military presence off its coast and is in a faceoff with the West over its nuclear program and its capture of a British naval team.

While they would not say when the war games were planned, U.S. commanders insisted the exercises were not a direct response to Friday's seizure of the 15 British sailors and marines, but they also made clear that the flexing of the Navy's military might was intended as a warning.

"If there is strong presence, then it sends a clear message that you better be careful about trying to intimidate others," said Capt. Bradley Johanson, commander of the Stennis.

"Iran has adopted a very escalatory posture with the things that they have done," he added.

Meanwhile, oil prices shot nearly 8 percent in a matter of minutes in afterhours trading Tuesday, topping $68, as rumors spread that Iranians had fired at a U.S. ship in the Persian Gulf and that Britain had taken action to free the captives.

But both the U.S. military and the British government denied the rumors.

Lt. Cmdr. Charlie Brown of the U.S. Navy 5th fleet told The Associated Press that all ships in the Gulf had been checked and the rumors were untrue. Britain's Foreign office said its military had not taken any action.

The exercises began four days after Iranian forces detained the 15 Britons for allegedly being in Iranian territorial waters near the northern end of the Gulf. U.S. and British officials insist the team was properly searching cargo vessels inside Iraqi waters.

F/A-18 fighter jets roared off the Stennis' flight deck all day, mounting a dozen rapid-fire training sorties against imaginary enemy ships and aircraft. A second task force with the carrier USS Dwight D. Eisenhower also took part in the drills.

"These maneuvers demonstrate our flexibility and capability to respond to threats to maritime security," said Navy Lt. John Perkins, 32, of Louisville, Ky., as the Stennis cruised about 80 miles off the United Arab Emirates (http://search.breitbart.com/q?s=%22United+Arab+Emirates%22&sid=breitbart.com) after entering the Persian Gulf overnight.

"They're showing we can keep the maritime environment safe and the vital link to the global economy open."
At the headquarters of the Navy's 5th Fleet in Bahrain, Cmdr. Kevin Aandahl said the maneuvers would last several days. He said U.S. warships would stay out of Iran's territorial waters, which extend 12 miles off the Iranian coast.

None of America's naval coalition partners in the region joined the maneuvers.

A French naval strike group, led by the aircraft carrier (http://search.breitbart.com/q?s=%22aircraft+carrier%22&sid=breitbart.com) Charles de Gaulle, was operating just outside the Gulf in the Arabian Sea (http://search.breitbart.com/q?s=%22Arabian+Sea%22&sid=breitbart.com). But the French ships were supporting NATO forces in Afghanistan and not taking part in the U.S. maneuvers, Aandahl said.

At the Pentagon, spokesman Bryan Whitman said the Navy routinely conducts exercises when its forces are deployed near each other.

"The exercise should reassure our friends and allies of our commitment to security and stability in the region," Whitman said. "We are not interested in confrontation in the Gulf."

The war games involve more than 10,000 U.S. personnel mounting simulated attacks on enemy aircraft and ships, while hunting submarines and looking for mines.

"What it should be seen as by Iran or anyone else is that it's for regional stability and security," Aandahl said. "These ships are just another demonstration of that. If there's a destabilizing effect, it's Iran's behavior."

The U.S. drills were the latest in a series of competing American and Iranian war games. Iran conducted naval maneuvers in November and April, while in October the Navy led a training exercise aimed at blocking nuclear smuggling.

In January, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said the Stennis strike group was being sent to the Mideast as a warning to Iran that it should not misjudge America's resolve in the region.

Iran has grown increasingly assertive in the Persian Gulf as the U.S. military has become focused on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Iranian officials have publicly called on America's Arab allies to shut down U.S. military bases and join Iran in a regional security alliance.

Leaders of Arab nations around the Gulf have grown increasingly uneasy with the tough U.S. stance toward Iran, believing any outbreak of war would bring attacks on their own soil. But none has shown interest in an alliance with Iran.

In February, the 5th Fleet's then-commander, Vice Adm. Patrick Walsh, said he had assured Arab allies that Washington was trying to avoid "a mistake that boils over into war" with Iran.

The Stennis strike group, with more than 6,500 sailors and marines, entered the Gulf late Monday or early Tuesday along with the guided- missile cruiser USS Antietam, the Navy said.

The Stennis, which had been supporting military operations in Afghanistan (http://search.breitbart.com/q?s=%22operations+in+Afghanistan%22&sid=breitbart.com) from the Arabian Sea, joined the strike group led by the Eisenhower.

It is the first time two U.S. aircraft carriers have operated in the Gulf since the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, Aandahl said. The Eisenhower was operating off the coast of Somalia (http://search.breitbart.com/q?s=%22coast+of+Somalia%22&sid=breitbart.com) in January and February.

Each carrier carries an air wing of F/A-18 Hornet and Super Hornet fighter-bombers, EA-6B Prowler electronic warfare aircraft, S-3 Viking refueling and anti-submarine planes, and E-2C Hawkeye airborne command-and-
control aircraft. Also taking part were six guided-missile destroyers, the Anzio, Ramage, O'Kane, Mason, Preble
and Nitze; the frigate Hawes; amphibious assault ships Boxer and Bataan; and the minesweepers Scout, Gladiator and Ardent

[Stoned_Rider]

British sailor admits to illegal entry: Iran's news agency

TEHRAN (Reuters) - An official Iranian news agency said on Friday one man among the 15 British sailors and marines seized in the Gulf last week had admitted to entering Iranian waters illegally and apologized to the Iranian people.

Iranian state television earlier said it would air an interview with one of the British sailors as soon as it had the material. It had previously said it would be shown at 0930 GMT.

"We entered Iranian waters without permission and were arrested by Iranian border guards and I would like to apologise to the Iranian people for this," IRNA news agency quoted the sailor as saying.

"Since we were arrested on Friday March 23, 2007 everything has been very good and I am completely satisfied about the conditions," he was quoted as saying in the report in Persian.

Earlier this week, the only woman among the British naval personnel was shown on television admitting to entering Iranian territorial waters.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070330/ts_nm/iran_britain_irna_apology_dc

http://www.intpcentral.com/uploads/2007_03_30t050114_450x323_us_iran_britain_tv.jpg
The text in Arabic reads: The Iranians have been treating us very well, and this is proof of their generosity and hospitality.

:lol:

Some Iranian viewpoints from the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/6504235.stm):


As an Iranian I pray for the immediate release of the British mariners.
Farhad, Tehran

It is our obvious right to keep our borders safe. At least you saw your sailors they were safe, but what about our diplomats in Iraq.
Majid, Tehran

Instead of arresting them, it would be better if they issued warnings to these British marines - if they really had entered Iranian territory - and then guide them to the International waters. In such an intense situation, it is not to the benefit of Iran to get itself involved in another political row.
Babak, Tehran

Somebody (either Iranians or the British) has made a mistake and it does not need so much hue and cry! The story is becoming more like the arrest of two Israeli soldiers by Hezbollah in Lebanon, which resulted in a month of killing in that country. I am very surprised at Tony Blair's remarks, which makes the situation even more sensitive. It is not a positive step towards resolving the issue.
Behnam Beikzadeh

I think it seems impossible to say where exactly these marines where arrested, but I hope the Iranian government will release them as soon as possible, especially because of the current situation of Iran towards the international community. I think with regards to the recent remarks by Ayatollah Khamenei who said Iran might resort to illegal means (if the West does anything illegal towards Iran), it might be the case the Iran wants to get some concessions by arresting the UK marines. I hope they act more wisely about this issue.
Nima, Dubai

I feel no compassion for the British sailors. They are transgressors and deserve to be punished. I am completely sure that the British sailors are safe and have not been subject to any torture. In my opinion Iran has detained them in a move to secure the release of the Iranian diplomats (held by the Americans in Iraq).
Mehrdad, Sydney

In my opinion the British are exaggerating the situation. With the current circumstances, it is inconceivable that Iran would have detained these soldiers with no reason. Actually, quite opposite to their propaganda, the Iranians are very careful not to give the West any excuse. I think such a risky act by Iran shows that the Iranians have really lost their patience. One would have to be bigheaded to come and invade a country from the other side of the world and then to violate its neighbours borders and expect no reaction at all.
Morteza, New York

Although I feel no compassion for the detained British sailors, but have to say that Iran's regime has acted far from expediency. I have no doubt that the sailors will not be subject to any torture and that they will be released very soon. Once again the Iranian regime will survive a crisis created by itself.
Alireza, Tehran

It is not important if the British sailors had really entered the Iranian waters or not. They were detained because of certain political circumstances and they will be released again under new political circumstances. It is useless to argue about the sailors' location. Because everything that happens in our country is politically motivated.
Asad, Iran

The so called Iranian officials are spoiling the reputation of our country. When our own people are getting detained and forced to confess under torture - many of whom later deny their confessions - one can guess how our reputation is going to be spoiled when such an act is done to a foreigner.
Kaveh Ahangar

[Stoned_Rider]

Some more Iranian viewpoints:

http://www.intpcentral.com/uploads/tehran03AP_468x313.jpg

[demagogic_schizoid]

The Iranian Embassy has released a third letter purportedly written by British sailor Faye Turney, saying she has been "sacrificed" to the policies of the British and US governments.
The letter, addressed to the British people, also said she had been treated well, unlike the prisoners held at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. "I am writing to you as a British serviceperson who has been sent to Iraq, sacrificed due to the intervening policies of the Bush and Blair governments," the letter said.
"Whereas we hear and see on the news the way that prisoners were treated in Abu Ghrayb and other Iraqi jails by the British and American personnel, I have received total respect and faced no harm," Leading Seaman Turney said. "It is now our time to ask our government to make a change to its oppressive behaviour towards other people."

Well, I'm convinced.

[darlets]

Apparently April 6th is the day.
Rescue attempt anyone?
""There's no way that the SAS could go in and rescue today's captives because Iran's security apparatus is so strong and so powerful," said Barrett. But Mike Vickers, a former US special forces soldier who also worked at the CIA, said a rescue mission must remain on the table. "Primarily, the approach is negotiations, and then you're thinking about what you're going to do if negotiations aren't successful and there's a good opportunity" for a rescue, he said in an interview in Washington. "It depends on where the hostages are, the distance one has to go to get to them, if they're dispersed or together.""

Another article

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/02/25/wiran25.xml

[Fingers]

They're trying to bait england.

Nuke em.. NUKE EM ALLL

[dubbeltop]

Iran captures British Sailors

What the hell are British sailors doing there in the first place and who got them to go over there?

Tony Blair

It is a shame Iran has to defend itself from international critique because they want a atom bomb or more specific a nuclear device..

Just give them the space to develop it and by 2019 we can all enjoy nuclear science at its brightest....

And who developed the atom bomb and its more potent follow ups?

The United States of America....

http://gurushabad1.blogspot.com/2007/03/so-shall-you-reap.html

[Jivinjeffjones]

^^^^^heh.

[demagogic_schizoid]

Iran captures British Sailors

What the hell are British sailors doing there in the first place and who got them to go over there?

Tony Blair

It is a shame Iran has to defend itself from international critique because they want a atom bomb or more specific a nuclear device..

Just give them the space to develop it and by 2019 we can all enjoy nuclear science at its brightest....

And who developed the atom bomb and its more potent follow ups?

The United States of America....

http://gurushabad1.blogspot.com/2007/03/so-shall-you-reap.html

I agree, because America nuked Imperial Japan 60 years ago in response to being attacked on its own soil, we should definitely have no worries about Iran developing a nuke.:grin:

[demagogic_schizoid]

The next 48 hours will be critical, says Blair (http://feeds.reuters.com/~r/Reuters/UKTopNews/~3/106264590/idUKLAL00186020070403)

[darlets]

U.S. could strike Iran but not win-Russian general (http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKL0362498520070403)

[demagogic_schizoid]

Blair was right. I don't know what he said behind the scenes, but it worked. :)


TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran's president said on Wednesday Iran was releasing 15 detained British naval personnel as a "gift to the British people" and urged London not to punish them for saying they had entered Iranian territory.

"They are free after this meeting and can go back to their families," Mahmoud Ahmadinejad told a news conference.

"I ask Mr Blair not to punish the soldiers with the charge of accepting and telling the truth," he said in reference to taped "confessions" of the 15 sailors and marines saying they had entered Iranian waters.

Britain, which criticised the broadcasts, insists its personnel were in Iraqi waters when seized on March 23.

"Under the influence of the Muslim Prophet (Iran) forgives these 15 people and gives their freedom to the British people as a gift," Ahmadinejad said.

Earlier he had awarded a medal to an Iranian naval commander for detaining the Britons and said he regretted that London was "not brave enough to confess its mistake over entering Iranian waters."

[Stoned_Rider]

as a "gift to the British people"
Oh how generous.

[Zergling]

Oh how generous.

That does save them more face than "oops".

[darlets]

Blair was right. I don't know what he said behind the scenes, but it worked. :)

Probably said
"You know, George rings me the first Friday of ever month and asks me whether he should invade Iran"

[Stoned_Rider]

Surprise, surprise.


UK captives tell of ill treatment

Royal Navy personnel seized by Iran were blindfolded, bound and held in isolation during their 13 days in captivity, the crew have said.

They were lined up while weapons were cocked, making them "fear the worst", one of the 15 freed sailors revealed.

The crew were told that if they did not admit they were in Iranian waters when captured that they faced seven years in prison, a press conference heard.

Opposing their captors was "not an option," they said.

And after the 15 marines and sailors were seized they were subjected to random interrogation and rough handling, and faced constant psychological pressure, they said.

...

They were kept in stone cells, sleeping on blankets and held in isolation until the last few nights and frequently interrogated.

Lt Carman said they were given two choices.

"If we admitted we had strayed, we would be on a plane back to the UK soon. If we didn't we faced up to seven years in prison".

The only woman in the group, Leading Seaman Faye Turney, believed for at least four days that she was the only one still being held.

"Like all of us she has been exploited," Cpt Air said.

Royal Marine Joe Tindell told how they feared for their lives in prison.

"We had a blindfold and plastic cuffs, hands behind our backs, heads against the wall. Basically there were weapons cocking. Someone, I'm not sure who, someone said, I quote 'lads, lads I think we're going to get executed'."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6533069.stm

[MacGuffin]

This is why I hate Gitmo and torture. Hard to claim the moral high ground when it is done to your side.