Biggest differences between INTP/INTJ

[callie]

What are the biggest differences between both types according to you?
(please try to be objectiv :smooch: )

[Boneca]

I can say that the biggest difference between me and the INTJ's I know (my mother and a close friend) is that it takes ten times as long for me to make up my mind.
If I want to buy a pair of shoes, f.ex., I will have to go into every shoe store in the city, and then back to the first one again, until I finally can decide. My mum, as well as my friend, will go into the nearest shoe store and buy the first pair that fits them.

[callie]

Well actually in particular : are INTJ a kind of INTP acting more decisively (more outspoken)? Or are INTP sometimes acting so too?

[callie]

Oh that's interesting... I am acting that way too... I go in each store and then i come back to the first one!

[Aryan]

P/J of course

Yeah INTJs might apply logic relative to their feelings (my uncle is an INTJ) (Te2-Fi3)
But INTPs keep the feeling aside (Ti1-Fe4)

[callie]

Really interesting!

[joft]

INTPs usually have the capacity to be very decisive, but we also usually prefer not to.

My best friend is an INTJ, and it's really quite comical how much we argue considering all of our arguments stem from the J/P difference. It usually begins by either one of us disagreeing with something the other said, and quickly escalates as soon as I begin playing devil's advocate to a standpoint on the issue that he considers outrageous. I'm much more, what you would consider, "open minded." For instance, when I told him I was trying to be somewhat of a vegetarian, he freaked out and started going off on a tangent about my character flaws. Once he got used to it, he'd only crack jokes about it like "God has a place for every little animal in his kingdom, and that place is next to my mashed potatoes."

He's willing to accept things, ideas, or people as being good or bad, right or wrong and so on. He understands the value in finding out why certain things may be "bad," but he's not really that concerned with it. Whereas I am absolutely obsessed with it, to a fault as far as he's concerned! But on the other hand, I do take a LOT longer to make decisions, and prefer not making them at all.

[indie]

INTJs are more likely to want to be "done" with something; they will usually have one project that they focus on intensely, see that project through to completion (even "perfection"), and then start something else new. INTPs are more likely to have a dozen different projects going and not get so carried away be worried about perfectionism.

[euterpenc]

They seem more critical and fervent in their beliefs. I also think they have less of an inclination to understand <i>everything</i> like an INTP might. I tend to look at things more generally, and my INTJ friend seems to look more into the details, or individual circumstances.

[QrioCT]

They seem more critical and fervent in their beliefs. I also think they have less of an inclination to understand <i>everything</i> like an INTP might. I tend to look at things more generally, and my INTJ friend seems to look more into the details, or individual circumstances.

yeah.

[songbird36]

I'm an INTJ and I agree with all of this.

When I was younger I tested as an INTP. I think decisiveness and the tendency to plan in advance, are the main things that distinguish an INTJ. The INTJ has very little difficulty with decisionmaking and in many instances will tend to make decisions too quickly without necessarily considering all the relevant information.

I also think INTJs tend to be a little more structured and a little more organised in their everyday lives.

[Edmond Zedo]

When I was younger I tested as an INTP. I think decisiveness...are the main things that distinguish an INTJ..
Not all INTPs have trouble there. I've developed, over the years, a knack for snap decisions that turn out very well. I think this is due to my over-developed intuition (of course in combination with intelligence/wisdom). But I am disorganized, and tend not to plan.

[songbird36]

A question for the INTPs:

On several occasions recently (due to other commitments and life events) I have let work deadlines slip beyond what was negotiated with my client. This is unusual for me - I can normally meet deadlines without a problem at all.

As an INTJ the feeling that I cannot meet a deadline creates enormous mental stress for me, to the point where I may actually lose sleep over it.

I'm guessing this isn't such an issue for INTPs? How do you regard deadlines?

[melancholeric]

Miss Anthropic's signature had that quote from Douglas Adams....

[Edmond Zedo]

How do you regard deadlines?
That depends on the situation. If meeting the deadline would be very beneficial to me, I'll go right after it and blow it away. If not, I'd be just as prone to let it slide to spite its creator. I seem to always be relaxed, and for example, if I did care about beating the deadline, but it was just impossible, I'd say "Oh well, it can't be done, and it's not my problem." No worries, no worries.

[Boneca]

I'm guessing this isn't such an issue for INTPs? How do you regard deadlines?I never get anything done until just before the deadline, but then I will keep working until I have it done (which means, I'll be finished about 5 seconds before the deadline...).
Being late with stuff really annoys me.

[songbird36]

I never get anything done until just before the deadline, but then I will keep working until I have it done (which means, I'll be finished about 5 seconds before the deadline...).
Being late with stuff really annoys me.

Yes..but do you do this because you want to take in as much information as possible before you deliver the final product, or because you simply don't see the deadline itself as important?

[euterpenc]

I never meet deadlines, unless it's school related. Then, I'll put it off for weeks, and start and finish whatever the project is in about an hour, maybe less. As quickly as possible. Unless it's a deadline I set, I care almost not at all.

[Boneca]

Yes..but do you do this because you want to take in as much information as possible before you deliver the final product, or because you simply don't see the deadline itself as important?The former, definitely. Plus the fact that I'm lazy.

[Warrior413]

Every morning I'm supposed to be upstairs by 10 am. Most of the time I'm rudely awakened by my dad yelling at me at 10:30. The way I see it, it's better to sleep in to a "reasonable" time instead of getting up at insanely early times, like before noon. I always meet school deadlines though.

[Edmond Zedo]

I always meet school deadlines though.
Nerd.

[Warrior413]

Nerd.
Heh. Not really, just avoiding trouble.

[Edmond Zedo]

just avoiding trouble.
Nerd.

[Warrior413]

Nerd.
Jock.

[Edmond Zedo]

Jock.
Thx.

[Warrior413]

Thx.
You were just waiting for that weren't you...

[matthew0028]

"God has a place for every little animal in his kingdom, and that place is next to my mashed potatoes."

:lol:


A question for the INTPs:

On several occasions recently (due to other commitments and life events) I have let work deadlines slip beyond what was negotiated with my client. This is unusual for me - I can normally meet deadlines without a problem at all.

As an INTJ the feeling that I cannot meet a deadline creates enormous mental stress for me, to the point where I may actually lose sleep over it.

I'm guessing this isn't such an issue for INTPs? How do you regard deadlines?

Me and deadlines don't get along too well. Last semester in school, there were several instances where I didn't get my homework done on time (thus I didn't get points on it), but I'd do the homework later anyway (so I'd learn the material). I regularly get my phone bills late. Etc.

It doesn't help that I'm basically a lazy person. And that I don't generally worry about stuff, so that doesn't keep me on track.

[garak]

Not meeting deadlines doesn't bother me per se, just the consequences. I never think, "oh no, I missed a deadline" -- I think "oh no, this is going to fuck up my grade!" Outside of school, missing deadlines doesn't have nearly the same negative effect, so in general I really don't care. In a way it can also be fun -- making Js go crazy, or the whole quasi-manipulative "be late and make them wait on you" thing.

[Arcades]

I have a Very low (P) >30. So I tend to collect information till sompthing in me decides that I have enuff, then I will rush ahead with a decision at break neck speeds.

My friend asked me a question one time about how I would pick a new yard swing. My answer was I would ponder the diffrent swings in the store looking at the mock-ups for 45 min or so. Then I would buy what I decided I wanted without asking the salesmen about anything. Then rush home and put the swing togeather without the diretions. Making the swing from memory. My life seems to be long pauses with short frantic endings.

I hate failing in sompthing that I feel is my responsability. But Distane the menial.

[MasterMerk]

The differences between J and P are many if you count them all up. I think the basic "Js are organised and Ps are diorganised" is rather a bad example though. You can't really tell with INXJs sometimes because they tend to be inward turning with Ni, anyway.

If you want to take a look at some J/P differences, although not INTP/INTJ (It's INFP/INFJ, but still clears a lot up), go to http://members.aol.com/macvjv/INFJorINFP.htm

[jjt]

Here is a difference I notice between INTJ / INTP. My brother and father are both INTJ's. They have basically kept the same careers their whole lives. I, as an INTP have changed career some 6 times in the last 20 years of work, with quite a range of different interests, nursing, furniture design, designing equipment for disabled people, fine art (painter), self development seminar teacher, nutritionist. Whereas my dad (psychiatrist, preacher) and brother (computor programmer, electronic engineer) have basically kept one career and both have really developed them until they have become recognised experts in their fields. They continue to train and improve and continue to give 100% to their work (my dad is still working at 74 and frequently attends medical seminars). I tend to lose interest after a few years of one topic and give less than my full effort, then move on to the next passion as soon as I find what it is.

Also they are both really disciplined in their approach to work and never do the last minute rush.
Another thing - they both have strong religious beliefs and use a lot of logic to back up their position (I consider their logic flawed, but they would never be able to see my point of view so I never discuss it with them). I'm wondering if INTJ's are more likely to hold religious beliefs? (Or is is just my family?)

[callie]

Deadlines are too bounding to me. I don't meet deadlines (except for school stuffs too :nerd: ) because it makes me feel bound to something, controlled and not free. And i hate that feeling. I have a big need to freedom and deadlines trapps us in it! So, my ENFP feeling....

[callie]

Hey Jjt, i am a P too and i have strong religious beliefs... but i think i have developped my unique conception of God that most people do not really understand.... :huh:

[jjt]

Hi Callie, I do think there is a difference between the way I have come to my beliefs compared to my brother / father. I think theirs is very conservative, - they see the bible very literally and absolutely true in every word, where as I think my p makes me think in a more unique way about God and belief, i.e. I think in a way that makes sense to me not in a dogmatic and to the letter way that I see my family following.

[callie]

Oh ok I see, i think i come from the same religious background than you and i feel the same way than you too then!!

[Sally]

Hey Jjt, i am a P too and i have strong religious beliefs... but i think i have developped my unique conception of God that most people do not really understand.... :huh:

Well this is something that's been bothering me lately about spiritual beliefs... If you believe in a higher power, how can you possibly believe yourself capable of understanding it? It seems to me that it's just an agreement within yourself - this it what I'll act on, but I acknowledge that I may be wrong. I just don't see how any other conclusion could be logical.

[Edmond Zedo]

I just don't see how any other conclusion could be logical.
Logic has effectively nothing to do with the conclusions of an ENFP. This I know, and nothing more.

[Sally]

Logic has effectively nothing to do with the conclusions of an ENFP. This I know, and nothing more.

Well at least I'm satisfied in my own mind that I've just debunked all forms of spirituality. But then if you throw in 'faith' to counteract human fallibity.... No, but faith itself is a copout at best, delusion at worst.

(And yes I still reserve the right to eat my own words - damn low J function).

[callie]

Yes but on the other hand, why all that what other people think (80% of the population is S and many religious people are J) would be right too? Why would they not have developped their own understanding (and rigid) conception of God? Thsi conception could be true or could be wrong....
You know, I don't always agree with Voltaire but once "God created man in his own image and Man did so back too" (sorry not native english speaker, i don't know how to translate that sentence into english)

[callie]

Back to INTJ! Do you think they are choose more their words (I get the impression that each words they use is thoughfully choosen)?

[Sally]

"God created man in his own image and Man did so back too" (sorry not native english speaker, i don't know how to translate that sentence into english)

So I think what you're saying is that each person comes to their own understanding of God, or even Higher Power of Choice. But what I don't get is how something can be simultaneously the product of an individual, human consciousness and Divine.

[callie]

Because the divine can also reveal his being to the human consciousness....

[Sally]

Back to INTJ! Do you think they are choose more their words (I get the impression that each words they use is thoughfully choosen)?

The INTJs I know tend to not have to chose their words as carefully as I do. The decisive J function makes it easier for them to know what to communicate and how to communicate it. Not that they don't put a lot of thought into their words, just not quite so much as INTPs. I tend to agonize over exactly what I want to say and how I want to say it, how quickly I need to say it, how precise I need my meaning to be. I generally feel like I never have enough time to put my thoughts together when I'm participating in a realtime conversation.

[Sally]

Because the divine can also reveal his being to the human consciousness....

But only in a limited fashion. It seems to be that, by the definition of High Power, a human could never hope to understand it. And if you think you understand it.... It just seems like hubris to me. Either that you understand such a power or that such a power would deign to make its 'will' (supposing it had something of the sort) even moderately comprehensible to you.

[callie]

Ok but do you think that INTJs would care about some specific implicit meanings in their speech since they choose their words carefully? (like things they don't dare to say explicitly but trying to say it with choosen words? In other words in being strategic and selective in what they let show about themselves and their emotions through choosen words?)

[Edmond Zedo]

Stop debating Tinkerbell!

[callie]

Sorry? :huh:

[Sally]

Ok but do you think that INTJs would care about some specific implicit meanings in their speech since they choose their words carefully? (like things they don't dare to say explicitly but trying to say it with choosen words? In other words in being strategic and selective in what they let show about themselves and their emotions through choosen words?)

Yes I think the question of How to say it becomes quite important. One friend of mine generally tries not to offend, since he knows his value system isn't shared by others. Saying exactly what he means to say is very important to him, so he does take his time about it. But I think that the notion of what he wants to say, once he's decided upon the spin he's going to give it depending on his audience, doesn't waver. I don't think he stumbles over words nearly as much as I do. :}

[callie]

Oh ok! so intj are not that strategic and selective in choosing words.....

[Sally]

Stop debating Tinkerbell!

Stop making seemingly clever comments that disrupt a legitimate discussion while contributing nothing to it.

[callie]

Thanks for the "seemingly clever comments".....

[Edmond Zedo]

Thanks for the "seemingly clever comments".....
You're welcome. (They are very clever indeed.)

[Sally]

Because my point is that tinkerbell might exist just as easily as she might not. And to believe that you know not only the fact of her existence but also the nature of it is hubris. The best you can do is settle on assumption and then act on it, <i>but that doesn't stop your faith from being an assumption!</i> And it doesn't make it any more or less legitimate than other assumptions. A healthy dose of doubt is the distinction I make between an acting assumption and a belief.

[Edmond Zedo]

No, no, callie is Tinkerbell, and you're trying to "talk sense" to her. It's a defunct premise. I've been there, and I learned.

[Sally]

No, no, callie is Tinkerbell, and you're trying to "talk sense" to her. It's a defunct premise. I've been there, and I learned.

Now you've got me trying to think of any point in the Peter Pan canon when someone tries and fails to 'talk sense' to Tinkerbell............. I was picturing the whole clapping thing.

[callie]

No, but i have been an INTP in my past life.... I reincarnated in an ENFP so I have the double function and can understand both! ;P

[Edmond Zedo]

Now you've got me trying to think of any point in the Peter Pan canon when someone tries and fails to 'talk sense' to Tinkerbell............. I was picturing the whole clapping thing.
Well they probably knew better.

[Edmond Zedo]

No, but i have been an INTP in my past life.... I reincarnated in an ENFP so I have the double function and can understand both! ;P
Of course, sweetie, of course you can (You can't).

[callie]

Hmm! :angry:

[callie]

:banghead: :rant: :laser: :whistle:

[callie]

;P :rofl: :thumbdow:

[Sally]

Well they probably knew better.

See, I have this vicarious obsession with Peter Pan, via my best friend......... Nevermind. If I'd understood your original meaning, I wouldn't have been so snipey. :}

[Edmond Zedo]

Isn't she cute?

[Sally]

Isn't she cute?

Definitely makes more sense now. And by sense I mean...... Yeah.

[MasterMerk]

*ahem* Back on it.

I'm an INFJ, but I know both INFJs and INTJs have Ni as their dominant function. There are similarities, henceforth.

For myself, I tend to choose my words carefully when writing up posts (they usually come out bad anyway :p). In conversation, I'm usually direct and precise in getting my meaning across. I don't like bullshitting around, and sometimes because of this I come off as very opinionated. Sometimes with an ego, even - but only when I know I'm not going to piss anyone off by being that way.

[callie]

Here is what i found about INTJ choosing words....

"The sentences of an INTJ are usually long and complex, and full of ideas. Their speech is usually thoughtful and deliberate, but it can be vague and imprecise. INTJs are very confidant and don't care at all what others think of them. INTJs are difficult to read, because they don't use any excess words or gestures. They will use rules that work, and ignore all others. They have a good sense of underlying structure and meaning and are often drawn to science, math and other similar fields."

Do you agree with that? Hey Sally, you also make long and complex sentence (that i really find funny, yeah!)

[Swift]

If I want to buy a pair of shoes, f.ex., I will have to go into every shoe store in the city, and then back to the first one again, until I finally can decide. My mum, as well as my friend, will go into the nearest shoe store and buy the first pair that fits them. I'm just like that too! My dad says I'm worse than a woman. LOL! :rolleyes:

Swift

PS: I think that choosing words carefully is more a result of the NT core than of the J function, which means that INTP's and INTJ's do it both. But since INTP's are right-brainers, as opposed to the left-brained INTJ's, they could encounter more difficulty in turning the images in their head into words.

[Birdsnest]

General issues I have with too much J:

* J's want things to go their way and their way only.
* Tend to make decisions for convenience or popularity and not for truth
* See the tree, but not the forest for the trees.
* Are not open to change once a decision is made
* Are way too driven by guilt or popularity
(ie, consumed by worry about what might happen if something doesn't get done).
* Are sometimes too elitist, or benefit from P's faux pas
* Are prone to error due to being too closed minded or final
* Can be terribly one sided or biased

I think its wiser to be an open ended truth seeker, more honest, less driven by guilt or how something looks.

[Sally]

I agree with it, though I think the description is from the point of view of less similar types. I think he cares about what people think of him more than I do, and I don't have trouble following what he's saying, at least until he gets into long, complicated descriptions of his conlangs (constructed languages, his hobby), and even then I can figure it out if I take my time and dredge up all my knowledge of grammar. :} Regarding the way we construct our sentences, we're probably very similar, though I'm sure he rambles less. I think the biggest difference between him and me is that he has principles that actually affect his daily life. He almost always tries to present himself in a stable, mature, logical, interesting fashion. I tend to be much more flightly, especially if I'm around people I trust and I'm talking about something that isn't so accessibly logical (my rabid adoration of Horatio Hornblower, for example). In that sense, he's always careful of his words, but I'm only careful of mine when I'm taking the time to logically explain something or I'm talking to someone I'm not entirely comfortable with.

(Long and complex sentences.... Yes, I confess. At least I keep my clauses together for the most part - I still have terrible memories of untangling Dickens back in middle school. >_<)

[bookworm]

I thought I was INTP until I took (yet another) online test in early January -> INTJ. I thought it over and it started to make sense.

I've returned to grad studies in Comp Sci. I also have two degrees in math (the abstract part, I'm bad at say matrix multiplication, and I've got no geometric intuition...). I know a few very smart INTP and ITNJ profs, so the following comes from my interactions with them.

My similarities to INTP: big picture, messiness :whistle: , love of abstract reasoning, patience with getting enough information.

But when I notice a pattern between what the prof says and some other area (say two math ideas), the INTJ knows what I'm talking about (and usually tells me I've overlooked a crucial difference ;) AND what it is), while for the INTP prof it's not even a consideration, because the areas are too different, and so he/she just looks at me baffled.

What a relief to learn from someone who seems to have noticed and avoided all the banana peels I slip on !!

So one big difference is: I seem to understand things by "intuiting" non-verbal patterns, which I then automatically "slide" over what else I know and look for matches. And then I hunt and peck for the right words to describe my insight. OTOH, one of my profs (I'm sure he's INTP) tells me his insights pop into his head already written.

Also: I keep on muttering/yelling about how all these wonderful ideas I read and insights I get (and anyone else too!) should be useful to others. By useful, I don't mean practical, but rather that the result should help others think more profound thoughts or build better machines or whatever. It shouldn't just sit there isolated from the rest of human thought and action in its full abstract glory. One of the responses I've gotten (typical INTP if I'm not mistaken): art for art's sake.

In my experience, INTP's (and ISTP's) are hard to rile up, though I've succeeded ;) , while INTJs seem to be pretty argumentative.

Oh yeah, decision-making. "for J's pinning down an INTP can be an exercise in futility" (Art of Speed-Reading People). I tell you, that is an understatement. OTOH I've been known to put people on hold too. I take a long time researching an issue (when googling, reading dozens of hits if I'm not sure what I'm looking for). Eventually though something clicks (I know because I suddenly become a lot calmer) though I'm not always sure what decision I've reached. The decision sometimes demands immediate action, like walking out of a useless meeting, which might not be "career enhancing." Until I started understanding this dynamic, I wondered why I'd keep on sabotaging my prospects. In hindsight though, I had stayed there too long...

SJ's = control freaks. Wonderful that they're around, they get a lot of important things done, just keep them away from any authority over me! Likewise for those NTJ's that behave like SJ's. They're anti big-picture folk. In the latter case it seems that they come to decisions so quickly that they don't have time to look for and consider alternate data.

See you,
bookworm

[Edmond Zedo]

If you can't even figure your own type out, how the hell are you sure that professor is INTP?

[bookworm]

If you can't even figure your own type out, how the hell are you sure that professor is INTP?

I'm borderline. Or I don't really know how to distinguish types. I get the impression that personality type has one or more dimensions lacking. For example, range of input data. I scan pretty well everything, as an initial approximation. If something catches my eye, I try to read related material, to try to form an "authoritative" opinion on it (i.e. one that I can trust won't be undermined by the next random thought or observation I have ;) ). I've noticed other people are more specialized in their interests and focus. Now, I also tell people "I am not interested" when they try to draw my attention to some area that I've already considered or think is trivial or am not yet ready to consider etc.

Perhaps that missing dimension should be specialist/interdisciplinary. By interdisciplinary, I mean focused on relationships between disciplines. Generalist for me is being interested in and knowing something about many disciplines, but not caring about how those disciplines fit together. Noticing the fits is how I (tentatively) distinguish between interdisciplinary from specialist knowledge, and caring about them is how I (tentatively) distinguish between interdisciplinary and generalist knowledge.

I don't use personality types as pigeonholes, but rather as a source of insight into why people (including me) react the way they do. So it doesn't matter too much if I've gotten the exact profile right or not, because I'm wondering about where the sources of misunderstandings are, and what I can do to reduce them, and whether that's worth my time and effort.

Every now and then though, I work with someone whose personality type just jumps at me. For example, an ISTJ engineer: her desk was perfectly ordered, every thing in its place, a place for every thing; every morning she'd look at her to-do list and update it, as she finished every task, she'd cross it off, and at the end of the day, she'd update it for the next day/week/month. Good time management skills, but it's not just that--it's a way of life for her. She (and the whole dept) were being nudged along by our manager to take a more "global" business-oriented approach. She was an excellent team player, she knew her technical stuff and respected mine, and she didn't have any authority over me, so we got along fine. I might be wrong, but I can't see how she could be other than ISTJ. One can test this using the metric "effective communication". That is, fewer distractions and misunderstandings equals more effective communication. So by actually interacting with people, one is also testing one's understanding of their personality type.

Now, my INTP prof. How do I know he's INTP? Well, I don't. But that's the best explanation I have now for his behavior, particularly on his disappearing for stretches of time (so he can produce highly-regarded controversial insightful articles, which he does), big-picture drilling down to details approach (also how he teaches), his rumpled look, his disregard for fashion and prestige. I've been working (or trying to work) with him for two years. He's brilliant but he works alone. And he's the only person I really want to work with. So it's worth my effort to try to adapt to his work and thought habits without getting high blood pressure ;) . If INTP insights help (and they seem to), then I call him (tentatively) INTP.

BTW I've been using a book called "The Art of Speed-Reading People", by
Barron and Baron-Tieger, for the past few years to reduce misunderstandings. It's based on personality type. It has helped me.

Regards,
bookworm

[Edmond Zedo]

You sound kind of INTJ, and even more because if you were 'one of us' you might have noticed the glaring mistake in "I'm not INTP because I'm not like my INTP professor. But I'm not sure he's INTP."

[CreativeChaos]

Originally posted by Creative Chaos:
Here is a site that we NFs use to determine INFP or INFJ. I think it can be *very* helpful in this case as well.

http://members.aol.com/macvjv/INFJorINFP.htm

I *really* think the process in determining P or J will be the same in this case. Just substitue T for F and read basically the highlights. (Details listed may or may not apply to a T.)

I would hit the highlights as suggested on page 3:

If you're in a hurry and only want to hit the highlights, do this:

1. Confirm your Temperament.
2. Determine whether you prefer Informing or Directing.
3. Choose which interaction style sounds most like you.
4. Decide whether your F energy first goes inward or outward.


Determine whether you prefer Informing or Directing.

Whether T or F, if you prefer the Informing mode, that is the open Perceiving style. If you prefer the Directing mode, that is the Judging, closure style.

Choose which interaction style sounds most like you.

The two styles are Chart the Course, and Behind the Scenes. Judging types tend to "plan ahead" and group others around their "direction". Perceiving types in their informing role, tend to work "Behind the Scenes", putting together different sources of information.

Decide whether your T energy first goes inward or outward.

You can use this site to help decide if your T is an "inny" or an "outy". Just substitute T for F. An INTP's major function is Ti. An INFP's major function is Fi. But they both have Ne, that is extraverted intuition. That is the way they deal with the "outer" world. So the similarity in interation style, informing style, should be the same.

An INTJ's major function is Ni and the INTJ's T function is Te. So if your T is extraverted, that is focused outward on things "out there", rather than inward then you're likely an INTJ. Both INFJ's and INTJ's primary function is Ni. One is supported by feeling the other by thinking. So again the interaction style should be the same.

Anyway, I hope this site helps. I really think the similarities are close enough such that T or F is *not* the main contributing factor. Just translate the F to T.

I posted this before. I'm not sure if you saw this bookworm, so I'll place it again. Is this rude? Repeating a post? If so let me know. Some of these get so long, I don't think people read all of the posts before responding. :unsure:

[bookworm]

BTW I joined an INTJ mailing list a week or so ago. My backing off from being an INTJ is a reaction to the sniping, pedantry, and general bullying that goes on there, especially the last few days. If that's what INTJs are really like, then I am not one. However, the list is dominated by a few prolific posters, so its tone may be a reflection of them, rather than INTJs in general.

I'm curious as to what other people think of it.
INTJ-Open mailing list home page (http://epistolary.org/mailman/listinfo/intj-open)

Regards,
bookworm

[bookworm]

Originally posted by Creative Chaos:
Here is a site that we NFs use to determine INFP or INFJ. I think it can be *very* helpful in this case as well.

http://members.aol.com/macvjv/INFJorINFP.htm

Thanks for reposting :) I'll look it up.

bookworm.

[andthesunburnedouttonight]

Here's something about me that no one else has mentioned:

When I go shopping, I know exactly what I want. I walk right it, pick it up, and take it to the counter. Nobody can stop me or talk me out of buying it, because I made up my mind before I ever entered the store. Are any of you INTPs like this?

This is the exact opposite of the other four members of my family (three of whom tested ISTJ, though I'm not sure that I believe those results, the descriptions of ISTJs that I've read often don't match what I see of them. I believe the problem occured when they were taking the test, they often didn't understand the questions and had to ask me to dumb some of them down.) They go into a store with no idea what they want to buy, spend an hour looking at EVERYTHING very thoroughly, and eventually leave the store without buying anything!

[Edmond Zedo]

Yes, I usually know exactly what I want if I care about it. I do a lot of research, because I want to get high quality garbage. Ninety-nine times of a hundred, I know more about whatever thing it is than anyone in the store by the time I show up.

[ApeTheDog]

When I go shopping, I know exactly what I want. I walk right it, pick it up, and take it to the counter. Nobody can stop me or talk me out of buying it, because I made up my mind before I ever entered the store. Are any of you INTPs like this?

Absolutely not. What if there is a pair of shoes that looks better on you, but which you never realised existed when you made your decision? You'd miss out on it by not browsing. I never decide up front what I'm going to buy. first of all, thoughts like that bore me to the very depths of my skull. Secondly, no matter what you decide, unless you know everything about the matter like Edmond Zedo, it's always going to be a more uninformed decision than when you decide on the spot.

[Edmond Zedo]

bookworm, you sound more INTJ with every post, fwiw.

[andthesunburnedouttonight]

Absolutely not. What if there is a pair of shoes that looks better on you, but which you never realised existed when you made your decision? You'd miss out on it by not browsing. I never decide up front what I'm going to buy. first of all, thoughts like that bore me to the very depths of my skull. Secondly, no matter what you decide, unless you know everything about the matter like Edmond Zedo, it's always going to be a more uninformed decision than when you decide on the spot.Because if I just randomly spot the other pair of shoes, there is no way that it could possibly make enough of an impression on me so quickly that I would instantly favor it over the shoes that I came in for. Decisions like which shoes to buy are decisions that I dwell on for days before I ever enter the store. Any "browsing" that I do is browsing that occurs outside of the store out in the real world when I see what shoes other people are wearing, or by looking up different styles of shoes on the Internet and getting my heart set on a specific pair. This happens before I ever make it to the store.

In fact, sometimes I try to avoid drawing attention to my predetermined decision by PRETENDING to browse around at other things (shoes in this example) just so that I don't turn heads by speedwalking right to the shoes that I want.

[Edmond Zedo]

"There are two kinds of people in this world, my friend. Those that know what kind of shoes they are going to buy, and those that decide after they get there." Tuco Benito Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez

[Vagabond]

"There are two kinds of people in this world, my friend. Those that know what kind of shoes they are going to buy, and those that decide after they get there." Tuco Benito Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez There are also those that are determined about what kind of shoes they are going to buy, but keep their eyes open too, just in case....

[Edmond Zedo]

"You see, there are two kinds of people in this world, Friend. Those who laugh at jokes, and those who ruin them." Blondie

[Vagabond]

"You see, there are two kinds of people in this world, Friend. Those who laugh at jokes, and those who ruin them." Blondie It wasn't funny. It was partly accurate.

[CreativeChaos]

I don't know if this will help any. But I'm INFP and know what I want. We have NP in common. Ps are supposed to be indecisive, but, I have several ISTJs, and they spend more time trying to decide where to go, what to have for dinner than I. I am the one who says let go here, or lets do this. I think it it's the Fi or Ti, that knows what it wants, better than others. (It that thing is important. Whether to buy bread at 1.50 or 1.75, who gives a damn?)

[booyalab]

I don't know if this will help any. But I'm INFP and know what I want. We have NP in common. Ps are supposed to be indecisive, but, I have several ISTJs, and they spend more time trying to decide where to go, what to have for dinner than I. I am the one who says let go here, or lets do this. I think it it's the Fi or Ti, that knows what it wants, better than others. (It that thing is important. Whether to buy bread at 1.50 or 1.75, who gives a damn?)

That's pretty specific to ISTJ. They like making decisions about boring details. An INTJ wouldn't be that interested in it

[INTrPosr]

Not all INTPs have trouble there. I've developed, over the years, a knack for snap decisions that turn out very well. I think this is due to my over-developed intuition (of course in combination with intelligence/wisdom). But I am disorganized, and tend not to plan.
I would think that the average INTP would be able to internalize snap decisions, but may never articulate them unless necessary. I also think that we tolerate disorganization, but will only find a need to organize if it truly matters or until we get sick of the messes.

[INTrPosr]

What are the biggest differences between both types according to you?
(please try to be objectiv :smooch: )
So Callie, with the exception of the obvious T/F, what do you see as a difference between INFJ and INTJ?

[Edmond Zedo]

It wasn't funny. It was partly accurate.
Most jokes are! Joke ruiner!

[CreativeChaos]

Originally posted by Edmond Zedo:
Not all INTPs have trouble there. I've developed, over the years,

:rofl:


OVER THE YEARS!!!!! What years? You haven't got any!!! That picture of me in the wedding dress was made in 1979, the year you were born!!! :p
Yeah! I'm after you now, you EZ devil, for not voting for me as Ms. Hotty. :angry: I demand a Ms. Hotty poll!!! (No, forget that, I've already blown it by revealing my age. NO one would vote for me. :cry: )
My feelings are hurt.

[Geoff]

Just a tad off topic there...

Back on topic.

Anyway, J's are more decisiveness (I know there are degrees of P and J ish behaviour) in my experience. I work closely with an INTJ. He annoys me with his tendency to want to work to an organised manner.

Oh, and re earlier comments on deadlines. I simply dont worry about them unless the consequences of missing them are significant.

-Geoff

[Vagabond]

Most jokes are! Joke ruiner! Still not funny. :p

[Edmond Zedo]

It's a reference, and most certainly not funny if you're unfamiliar with the source. Some here are familiar.

[Edmond Zedo]

:rofl:OVER THE YEARS!!!!! What years? You haven't got any!!! That picture of me in the wedding dress was made in 1979, the year you were born!!!
I've noticed myself getting wiser very consistently since about age 20. This doesn't happen to everyone, and I suspect it's a bit of an "INTP-thang."

[ApeTheDog]

My mother is an INTJ. I don't know if this is a common trait, or just something she alone suffers from (well, she definately wouldn't suffer alone, since I and my family suffer more under it than she does), but she will never, ever make a joke, or laugh at one. The only time she'll laugh is when she's drunk, and even then, she can only laugh at herself. She will make snide remarks, and she'll mock other people when they make mistakes - often she'll be really pedantic about this, she'll always repeat people who make a pronounciation mistake, that type of mocking - but that doesn't qualify as humor to me. It's painful, is all.

Conversation with her always involves stuff like doing the dishes and shortcomings I have, and other assorted pleasantries. Never have I noticed her trying to make things pleasant for others, or taking things for anything less than life-threateningly serious.

[QrioCT]

Ape, i agree here. i've got several INTJ friends who give a "stern" vibe. your description of your mom reminds me so much of these intjs.

deadlines. it doesnt bother me at all. no heavy mental pressures reminding me to. just gotta get off my own ass and start working, and trying hard to keep my ass on the chair until it gets done. or the case right now is that i have my ass in the chair, but instead of working im here. ;D

[jjt]

...She will make snide remarks, and she'll mock other people when they make mistakes - often she'll be really pedantic about this, she'll always repeat people who make a pronounciation mistake, that type of mocking - but that doesn't qualify as humor to me. It's painful, is all.


Conversation with her always involves stuff like doing the dishes and shortcomings I have, and other assorted pleasantries. Never have I noticed her trying to make things pleasant for others, or taking things for anything less than life-threateningly serious.[/QUOTE]

My father is an INTJ, and he has similarities. He if criticizes it comes across is a snide back handed remark. He rarely compliments. When he does it's a big deal. He's pretty arrogant and critical of most people not up to his standards. Can't be bothered with small talk.
Most of my friends were scared of him when I was a child. He's a psychiatrist and they all freeked out and thought he could see straight through them. To me he seemed remote and mainly interested in me getting an education, he never came across as fun or frivolous or spur of the moment. He hates anything getting in the way of his carefully planned out schedules - gets really uptight at things not going smoothly.
On the other hand in a work situation I've heard nothing but a huge amount of respect from his clients and work colleagues. He's also amazingly well informed about all kinds of stuff, and as a child my impression was that he knew everything and was right about everything.
As an adult I can see his flaws but it took me a while to get past the stuff I had about him to actually develop a relationship with him.

[bookworm]

Ape, jjt, my sympathies.

EZ I do think I am INTJ (but but but, not like those others :eek: ).

It's great being here.

Deadlines - hah! Watching them go by :whistle:
Though I do feel guilty and I'm trying (again) to reform...

Buying shoes or clothes or food: when I get the vague feeling that maybe I should, I wander around in the store, and if nothing grabs me I wander out again...

ToDo Lists: many, rarely consulted, mostly lost ;)

Books and articles -- piles and piles! (well duh!)

Library therapy -- when upset, walk around stacks until the right book falls in hand, browse through book, leave happy!

bookworm