There is a lot of drivel on here now...

[MacGuffin]

not to crap on anyone, but the quality of posting has gone way down recently.

I look at the new posts, and most of it is junk.

It is either:

1) Sexual innuendo

2) Random posting unrelated to the topic

3) Flaming and discussions of who to ban

4) Yet another poll

There is some interesting stuff, but it is buried in all the useless shit.

[EdwinJefferson]

not to crap on anyone, but the quality of posting has gone way down recently.

I look at the new posts, and most of it is junk.

It is either:

1) Sexual innuendo

2) Random posting unrelated to the topic

3) Flaming and discussions of who to ban

4) Yet another poll

There is some interesting stuff, but it is buried in all the useless shit.

Opinions presented as facts.

You're rant is just another piece of the "useless shit". Expect more posts from people.. for and against.. etc. etc.

P.S. What did you expect from a forum that appears to be mainly made up of younger people?

[joft]

P.S. What did you expect from a forum that appears to be mainly made up of younger people? Ba-aaa, ba-aaa

Hello, I'm a scapegoat.

Ba-aaa.

[EdwinJefferson]

Ba-aaa, ba-aaa

Hello, I'm a scapegoat.

Ba-aaa.


There I was.. thinking you were Gandalf the Peep.

How foolish I feel now.

*notices this is what whatshisface dislikes*

[MacGuffin]

P.S. What did you expect from a forum that appears to be mainly made up of younger people?

I have interacted with plenty of younger people that are able to elevate their conversation above that of a junior high snark-fest.

[booyalab]

not to crap on anyone, but the quality of posting has gone way down recently.

I look at the new posts, and most of it is junk.

It is either:

1) Sexual innuendo

2) Random posting unrelated to the topic

3) Flaming and discussions of who to ban

4) Yet another poll

There is some interesting stuff, but it is buried in all the useless shit.

Macguffin likes it in the ear, whoever agrees say aye.

[booyalab]

I have interacted with plenty of younger people that are able to elevate their conversation above that of a junior high snark-fest.

you do realize that by making this thread you are inviting all sorts of junior high snark festing, dont you? What else are we going to do? discuss the societal implications? *yawn*

[EdwinJefferson]

I have interacted with plenty of younger people that are able to elevate their conversation above that of a junior high snark-fest.

and all of those managed that feat all the time? they have no sense of humour? how boring.

[MacGuffin]

and all of those managed that feat all the time? they have no sense of humour? how boring.

No, but they could do it some of the time. Lately nearly all the posting falls into one of the categories above.

At first, a thread on underwear was a nice diversion from most of the "heavy" threads. Now the trivial dominates, and it bores me.

[booyalab]

Now the trivial dominates, and it bores me.

I blame it on school starting last week.

edit: also I've almost stopped posting on serious threads as of a month or two ago because of the way people sometimes reacted to my posts or misunderstood everything i said...or ignored me altogether and/or reiterated my ideas but in a different way so as to appear original to everyone else (whether intentional or not). It was really frustrating to me so I decided posting on certain threads less would make disappointment in people less frequent. (people still ignore me or misunderstand me but it doesn't happen as often because i dont post those things as often) (most of my serious posts have involved clarifying earlier posts, it has sucked beyond belief)

so lately i've just been posting here for amusement sake

[EdwinJefferson]

No, but they could do it some of the time. Lately nearly all the posting falls into one of the categories above.

At first, a thread on underwear was a nice diversion from most of the "heavy" threads. Now the trivial dominates, and it bores me.

And this is your attempt at changing it? I applaud you for only creating more 'useless shit' to bore you, when you could have just posted about what you wanted.

[MacGuffin]

And this is your attempt at changing it? I applaud you for only creating more 'useless shit' to bore you, when you could have just posted about what you wanted.

Actually, posting about the nature of the useless shit is far more interesting than reading the useless shit.

[EdwinJefferson]

Actually, posting about the nature of the useless shit is far more interesting than reading the useless shit.

This is useless and boring. I'm only posting so I get closer to 1000 posts.

[MacGuffin]

This is useless and boring. I'm only posting so I get closer to 1000 posts.

And this is different than 90% of your posts how?

[EdwinJefferson]

edit: also I've almost stopped posting on serious threads as of a month or two ago because of the way people sometimes reacted to my posts or misunderstood everything i said...or ignored me altogether and/or reiterated my ideas but in a different way so as to appear original to everyone else (whether intentional or not). It was really frustrating to me so I decided posting on certain threads less would make disappointment in people less frequent. (people still ignore me or misunderstand me but it doesn't happen as often because i dont post those things as often)

there, there.. the kittens won't harm you now.

[EdwinJefferson]

And this is different than 90% of your posts how?

You mean 100% dear boy.

[MacGuffin]

You mean 100% dear boy.

No, I looked up your old posts. Every once in a while you do post something outside the "ban Ghosteh" thread.

[EdwinJefferson]

No, I looked up your old posts. Every once in a while you do post something outside the "ban Ghosteh" thread.

And every one of those is to raise my posting. I haven't posted not to raise my posting. So 100%.

also: STALKER STALKER STALKER!!!

[MacGuffin]

booyalab - I always liked your posts on the serious threads. Sometimes people take things the wrong way. Fuck 'em.

But everyone posting just to amuse themselves will kill this forum. It seems Universal infected a bunch of people. At least back then it was one person.

[MacGuffin]

also: STALKER STALKER STALKER!!!

Don't worry, I got bored after the third page of "ban" posts.

[EdwinJefferson]

Don't worry, I got bored after the third page of "ban" posts.

Good. I was bored before the first.

P.S. if you wish to compliment someone.. make sure you spell their screen name correctly. It makes you look more like you're not just saying that so you have someone on your side.

[MacGuffin]

I swear I hit "y"!

[EdwinJefferson]

I swear I hit "y"!

after an edit you did.

[MacGuffin]

after an edit you did.

Duh!

[EdwinJefferson]

Duh!

such a great debate.

[booyalab]

Duh!

Edwin's an INFJ. Excuse his annoying human spellcheck tendencies.

[synchronous]

At first, a thread on underwear was a nice diversion from most of the "heavy" threads. Now the trivial dominates, and it bores me.

Don't pick on my new thread. I put it in an appropriate area, and yes, it's light and fluffy, and not all that serious in nature. I was just offering up some sort of diversion (albeit not too creative) from all the crap over the last few days. Other than this rant, I don't think I've seen you offer up anything new and worthy to discuss in quite a long time. In fact, I see maybe a dozen or so members offering up new threads - the usuals. So, take some initiative - instead of complaining, offer up a new topic with some 'meat' to discuss. Contribute constructively...

[EdwinJefferson]

Edwin's an INFJ. Excuse his annoying human spellcheck tendencies.

Only when you want me to be.

Somedays it's INFP.. others INFJ..

[booyalab]

Don't pick on my new thread. I put it in an appropriate area, and yes, it's light and fluffy, and not all that serious in nature. I was just offering up some sort of diversion (albeit not too creative) from all the crap over the last few days. Other than this rant, I don't think I've seen you offer up anything new and worthy to discuss in quite a long time. In fact, I see maybe a dozen or so members offering up new threads - the usuals. So, take some initiative - instead of complaining, offer up a new topic with some 'meat' to discuss. Contribute constructively...

He's not laying the responsibility entirely on everyone else. He just means there's more participation within the trivial threads than the 'heavy' threads. He could start a 'heavy' thread, but if no one participated in it, there wouldn't be much use.

[booyalab]

Only when you want me to be.

Somedays it's INFP.. others INFJ..

you're an INFJ, now until the end of time.

[EdwinJefferson]

you're an INFJ, now until the end of time.

I find that an offensive. I do not think time will end.

[Zero Angel]

you're an INFJ, now until the end of time.
And one who needs some growing up to do. Opinion presented as fact. :)

[EdwinJefferson]

And one who needs some growing up to do. Opinion presented as fact. :)

I think I'm tall enough.

[MacGuffin]

He's not laying the responsibility entirely on everyone else. He just means there's more participation within the trivial threads than the 'heavy' threads. He could start a 'heavy' thread, but if no one participated in it, there wouldn't be much use.

And sometimes the "heavy" threads get hijacked....

I don't mind the trivial. Except that is all that seemingly goes on now. Too many other types? I hate to see the INTP forum turn into another generic useless forum.

I would start my own heavy thread, but I've been real busy lately, so I only respond to threads already started. I went to new posts this morning in the day that I was gone - over 150 threads with new posts, and maybe 20 of them had something interesting.

P.S. synchronous, I didn't mean you!

[Johnny]

not to crap on anyone, but the quality of posting has gone way down recently.Blame it on the emergence of your feeling function.

:sombrero:

[MacGuffin]

Blame it on the emergence of your feeling function.

:sombrero:

I use it quite a bit for an INTP.

[SensEye]

For what it's worth, MacGuffin, I couldn't agree with you more. The signal to noise ratio has dropped pretty low around here. It's a shame, but it seems to inevitably happen to almost all internet forums as the number of participants grow. Lowest common denominator and all that. I thought the INTP nature may prove resilient to this tendency (and it has to some degree) but apparently it's not immune

I suspect that not many people will agree with you (us), since those that would be most likely to have voted with their feet and moved on. This place is not a write off yet, but the trend doesn't look too promising.

[MacGuffin]

I am part of another forum with thousands of members. It is primarily a sports and sports videogame forum. But there is an "Everything Else" section. It is probably the most active section.

And it never seems to get out of hand, and the majority of posts are outside of that section dealing with sports.

And the posts in the "Everything Else" section are a lot more interesting than what has gone on here lately.

Sports posters, outclassing INTPs?!?

[booyalab]

For an example of what I sometimes hate about the 'serious posting' on here, refer to the wal-mart is evil thread. *shudders*

[Zero Angel]

For what it's worth, MacGuffin, I couldn't agree with you more. The signal to noise ratio has dropped pretty low around here. It's a shame, but it seems to inevitably happen to almost all internet forums as the number of participants grow. Lowest common denominator and all that. I thought the INTP nature may prove resilient to this tendency (and it has to some degree) but apparently it's not immune

I suspect that not many people will agree with you (us), since those that would be most likely to have voted with their feet and moved on. This place is not a write off yet, but the trend doesn't look too promising.
Its more of a 'phase', all forums pretty much get their share of trolls and attention whores, and with it a bunch of nonsense posts, theres a period of conflict, then things go back to normal and the people who once sought that attention realize that nobody likes them and that they will get no more attention and then they start posting less.

Mostly if you ignore your problems, they wont go away. Trolls are an exception usually. I say we just ban them outright. They wont be missed.

[Solo]

Mostly if you ignore your problems, they wont go away. Trolls are an exception usually. I say we just ban them outright. They wont be missed.

I agree 100%. If someone is here to cause trouble then they need to be banned. No ifs ands or buts about it.

When I first got to this forum in November there were more serious threads. Everyone seemed so mature and I felt I would find a place here. In just a few months the quality has gone down. I've seen less of the "regulars" posting and a lot of threads have become very trivial. It is obvious different types are coming to the forum. I really hate it when I'm reading a serious thread and then those posting get completely of topic. I don't mind a little deviation from the topic but If you want to chat then you can do that elsewhere. I really hope this is just a phase. I don't plan on leaving but I would like it if there was some more depth to the forum.

[MacGuffin]

Its more of a 'phase', all forums pretty much get their share of trolls and attention whores, and with it a bunch of nonsense posts, theres a period of conflict, then things go back to normal and the people who once sought that attention realize that nobody likes them and that they will get no more attention and then they start posting less.

Mostly if you ignore your problems, they wont go away. Trolls are an exception usually. I say we just ban them outright. They wont be missed.

I hope you are right. This forum was very interesting until December or so.

[Birdsnest]

MacGuffin, I agree. When the board started out, it had very well thought out posts, and none of the troll type mockery. Might be all downhill from here, unless the troll stuff is either deleted, or put into one thread and moved to that thread to keep it apart. But I can see how that would take way too much trouble on moderators part.

The real problem is, the increase in troll type posting may actually drive away the more interesting posters, which is a shame. I think there should be one place to do all that "troll" type drivel and the rest should all be cleaned up and deleted as it takes up too much webspace and what is the point.

[Solo]

I don't think we should have to create a place on our forum for the trolls. Why should we create a place for those that ruin the forum? They should just get the hell out or be banned.

[mgb]

Mostly if you ignore your problems, they wont go away. Trolls are an exception usually. I say we just ban them outright. They wont be missed.

I think that is where Edwin is getting all his posts from.

Booyalab, post whatever you want, there will always be people for you to argue with.

As for "noise" complaints. Do something about it. Start some threads that invite some discussion. Don't just show up and bitch saying that you don't like what you see.

There aren't very many of us making a lot of posts nowadays. So the discussion ends up being what we want to talk about. Which also drifts sometimes into the mundane, but I don't think that is something new for this forum.

[mgb]

I don't think we should have to create a place on our forum for the trolls. Why should we create a place for those that ruin the forum? They should just get the hell out or be banned.

It's funny because we are such a sensitive bunch that are really disconnected from the rest of society. For me, this is an oasis from the rest of society because we don't have the trolls.

There are a couple, but the INTP "trolls" are managable, it is the non-INTP trolls that don't last here (partly because I don't think this forum holds much interest for non-INTPs, excluding the occasion NF).

I agree with the banning. I think it should happen faster without any discussion and discussion threads about trolls or threads started by trolls should "disappear" from view.

[SensEye]

Certainly trolls should be given no consideration. Whatever is most convenient for the moderators. The moderators here are way too considerate in my opinion. I would rule with much more of an iron fist if I was a moderator. Sure there would be a fair bit of screaming from the free speech bleeding hearts and a few posts not intended to be trollish would get zapped, but it would be all for the greater good.

[mgb]

Certainly trolls should be given no consideration. Whatever is most convenient for the moderators. The moderators here are way too considerate in my opinion. I would rule with much more of an iron fist if I was a moderator. Sure there would be a fair bit of screaming from the free speech bleeding hearts and a few posts not intended to be trollish would get zapped, but it would be all for the greater good.

I am not sure the mods have banning ability.

When Ghosteh was supposed to be banned, Shaytana couldn't do it, fc had to.

Which brings into question (again from me) what the powers/role of mods on this forum are.

I think our main troll right now is Shai Gar (according to public opinion) or me and I just don't know it. I'll defend Shar and say that I think he does have *some* honourable intentions and does put some good ideas on the site. As for other trolls, they usually just disappear after a while because I think to an outsider we can seem pretty tedious.

[MacGuffin]

I don't think Shai is a troll, but a lot of his posts are the noise that inspired this thread.

[Dman]

My suggestion (for what it's worth) would be to start your own threads that are of a more interesting/intellectual level. If/when they start to wander off to a lesser place, perhaps we all just need to be more aware of the fact that it is happening, and make an attempt to bring the conversation back to topic by pointing out that it has deteriorated. In a respectful manner hopefully; I'm sure we all get sucked into a sophomoric topic once in a while and just need a little nudge to put us back on track.

[Zero Angel]

I like your suggestion Dman.

[Division56]

My suggestion (for what it's worth) would be to start your own threads that are of a more interesting/intellectual level. If/when they start to wander off to a lesser place, perhaps we all just need to be more aware of the fact that it is happening, and make an attempt to bring the conversation back to topic by pointing out that it has deteriorated. In a respectful manner hopefully; I'm sure we all get sucked into a sophomoric topic once in a while and just need a little nudge to put us back on track.

That used to work very well, before we aquired members who deliberately disturb the peace.

[nobarcode]

But everyone posting just to amuse themselves will kill this forum.
Exactly -imo, but it seems inevitable to an extent.

What I have enjoyed about this forum overall (when the "old" forum started) was the lack of on going flirtatious responses, on-topic responses, sincere responses in "serious" threads, and respect. It seems that over half of the responses now are more like "chat room" discussions.

The way I see it with the "universals"; I was here before you got here and I'll be here when you're gone.

I owe MacGuffin a beer.

[mgb]

Exactly -imo, but it seems inevitable to an extent.

What I have enjoyed about this forum overall (when the "old" forum started) was the lack of on going flirtatious responses, on-topic responses, sincere responses in "serious" threads, and respect. It seems that over half of the responses now are more like "chat room" discussions.

The way I see it with the "universals"; I was here before you got here and I'll be here when you're gone.

I owe MacGuffin a beer.

So what was the stuff on your driveway?

[mgb]

The thing with the "chat room" discussion degradation of the forum (and I am completely guilty) is that most people lose interest in the thread and two people just end up going back and forth. Quite often people just ignore that "chat" and post something later anyways.

When you get people that agree or disagree but still respect each other I would say that chatting on the forum is an inevitable extension. And some of us just don't want to go on #intp or other online chats.

[Edmond Zedo]

The way I see it with the "universals"; I was here before you got here and I'll be here when you're gone.

Since I proudly refer to myself as a universal, though having no idea what it means to anyone, I will say that I've had a lookout for a real INTP board since '97. And I'm sticking around. I'd rather schnoot the schnit with a few people with logical ability than read the newspaper or "some other crap."

Furthermore, I believe that acting like an insane court jester is at least as valid as debating some IMPORTANT THING, the results of said debates consistently affecting nothing real. I do both when the whims strike.

[Arcael]

I have interacted with plenty of younger people that are able to elevate their conversation above that of a junior high snark-fest.
/signed

[mgb]

Since I proudly refer to myself as a universal, though having no idea what it means to anyone, I will say that I've had a lookout for a real INTP board since '97. And I'm sticking around. I'd rather schnoot the schnit with a few people with logical ability than read the newspaper or "some other crap."

Furthermore, I believe that acting like an insane court jester is at least as valid as debating some IMPORTANT THING, the results of said debates consistently affecting nothing real. I do both when the whims strike.

I think "Universal" was the resident troll for a while.

[crule81]

One thing that impressed me as I lurked the few weeks before I joined was the high level of intelligence evident in the vast majority of the regular posters. I also think this forum was noteworthy for its civility - one could disagree with another without resorting to mudslinging. I agree with MacGuffin that both of these qualities have diminished over the last month or so. I must also admit that I have not posted much in the "deep" threads lately, although this is more of the result of having to do some work at work. If any of this has caused people to contemplate leaving, I would suggest just trying to ride out the storm for a little bit first.

[Edmond Zedo]

I think "Universal" was the resident troll for a while.
oic :blink:

[MacGuffin]

I am not going anywhere, I just am really bored/disappointed with the threads recently.

[mgb]

I remember when I first became a Safewalker at school. There was a big group of new people and I remember the "veteran" Safewalkers in the back, being kind of cliquish and not getting to know anyone. Eventually, all but a couple stopped being Safewalkers and life went on.

Then after a couple of years of Safewalking I remember sitting at the orientation meeting at the back with a couple of old Safewalking friends and looking out at the large new group realizing that I would either have to try really hard to get to know the new people or stop being a Safewalker because I was definitely on the outs of the social aspect of Safewalking.

I think I hung around for a bit and then got busy doing other stuff.

My point is that the forum hasn't changed, the people in it have and you either have to get with it or get out. Believe it or not, you guys probably weren't as "respectful" or "thoughtful" as you remember being (just a few months ago) and you just haven't integrated yourselves with the new people so you feel left out. So instead of just feeling left out, you accuse the site, and thus the posters of posting drivel, which is actually quite insulting.

So, I would say, get with it or get lost. Your decision.

[MacGuffin]

My point is that the forum hasn't changed, the people in it have and you either have to get with it or get out. Believe it or not, you guys probably weren't as "respectful" or "thoughtful" as you remember being (just a few months ago) and you just haven't integrated yourselves with the new people so you feel left out. So instead of just feeling left out, you accuse the site, and thus the posters of posting drivel, which is actually quite insulting.

So, I would say, get with it or get lost. Your decision.

I would completely disagree. And it seems, so do others.

I have lurked more than posted lately. Traffic has increased, and with it the quality has gone down.

Maybe you weren't lurking before the past couple of months, it has changed.

[mgb]

For example, look at this thread from the early days...tell me you guys fully explored the topic...

http://www.intpcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13

This is all quality.

[MacGuffin]

For example, look at this thread from the early days...tell me you guys fully explored the topic...

http://www.intpcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13

This is all quality.

No, but at least people tried. No one started calling the (next to non-existent) mods nazis, or made some idiotic sexual remark.

[s]

I think most Intp's inherently exhibit troll-like tendancies, therefore I do not generally mind. However, once the threads become predictable and tedious, the novelty simply wears off. I think the occasional off topic deviation from a boring poll thread can be refreshing and I think non-aggressive trolls can be mildly entertaining. I came to this forum for entertainment and to exercise my grey matter with debate and information, perhaps different reasons than some. I have no doubt made some friends, but they certainly were not drawn to me for being a team player and keeping my opinions to myself. *winks*

I think there are just a lot of restless fives in the room... myself included.

We are so often in agreement, dear MacG.

[MacGuffin]

I think INTPs can be troll-like. But usually that is to tweak the SJs of the world. If someone is interesting they will go straight to geek-talk. Like what this forum was mainly like.

Is it INTPs that are the problem? Or other types and pseudo-INTPs?

[mgb]

No, but at least people tried. No one started calling the (next to non-existent) mods nazis, or made some idiotic sexual remark.

Do you need me to go through old threads and find idiotic sexual remarks? Think I would find some? I think I would.

I agree that no one has attacked the mods before. I would also say that they were probably much more integrated into a much smaller community. Now you don't even see the mods post that often. In the case of the thread you were talking about it was a disagreement over whether or not someone should be banned, which was also a debate about free speech. I also noticed that you did a great job jumping in a defending them. And I would say that shaytana and Vagabond were just as much to blame in that thread as Edwin was.

As for nazis, I think you will find that booyalab gets called a nazi much more than any of the mods do.

[mgb]

I think INTPs can be troll-like. But usually that is to tweak the SJs of the world. If someone is interesting they will go straight to geek-talk. Like what this forum was mainly like.

Is it INTPs that are the problem? Or other types and pseudo-INTPs?

Sorry, I think you have some sort of idylic picture of what the forum "used to be like" back in its "glory days".

If you don't like it now, start posting and change it.

[Zero Angel]

What do you mean by psuedo INTPs? Do you mean INTx? other tempraments in general? or other tempraments who pretend to be INTPs?

We've had some good posters that were of other tempraments, such as INFJs and some troll'ish posters that were of the INTP temprament. Its more a matter of character then it is of temprament. There's no sense in saying that 'its psuedo INTPs fault' because you are also laying the blame on the company of some of the NF regulars. Also, I am an INTx with both INTP and INTJ traits, does that make me a psuedo INTP?

[MacGuffin]

Do you need me to go through old threads and find idiotic sexual remarks? Think I would find some? I think I would.

I agree that no one has attacked the mods before. I would also say that they were probably much more integrated into a much smaller community. Now you don't even see the mods post that often. In the case of the thread you were talking about it was a disagreement over whether or not someone should be banned, which was also a debate about free speech. I also noticed that you did a great job jumping in a defending them. And I would say that shaytana and Vagabond were just as much to blame in that thread as Edwin was.

As for nazis, I think you will find that booyalab gets called a nazi much more than any of the mods do.

I am sure you would find a sexual remark. In fact, I just posted one on the Fake orgasms thread.

But there is more than that.


Sorry, I think you have some sort of idylic picture of what the forum "used to be like" back in its "glory days".

If you don't like it now, start posting and change it.

Were you there then? If not, maybe it was better. And it was only four months ago! The forum in its present state is less than 6 months old! An INTP forum in any form just celebrated its 1 year anniversary! It wasn't that long ago.

[mgb]

Were you there then? If not, maybe it was better. And it was only four months ago! The forum in its present state is less than 6 months old! An INTP forum in any form just celebrated its 1 year anniversary! It wasn't that long ago.

I know, that's what is so bad about this thread.

[MacGuffin]

What do you mean by psuedo INTPs? Do you mean INTx? other tempraments in general? or other tempraments who pretend to be INTPs?

We've had some good posters that were of other tempraments, such as INFJs and some troll'ish posters that were of the INTP temprament. Its more a matter of character then it is of temprament. There's no sense in saying that 'its psuedo INTPs fault' because you are also laying the blame on the company of some of the NF regulars. Also, I am an INTx with both INTP and INTJ traits, does that make me a psuedo INTP?

Psuedo INTPs think they are INTP, but are not. Hence, they came to this forum under a mistaken premise.

There are some great non-INTPs.

I was asking whether the junk posted lately is from INTPs or other types.

[MacGuffin]

Were you there then? If not, maybe it was better. And it was only four months ago! The forum in its present state is less than 6 months old! An INTP forum in any form just celebrated its 1 year anniversary! It wasn't that long ago.


I know, that's what is so bad about this thread.

Exactly.

Notice that only you and a troll are the only ones to really disagree with me so far?

[mgb]

I was just looking at old threads. Sorry, most of them suck and don't deal with any more complex topics than are dealt with now. They really don't go anywhere and are like 15 posts long.

I understand your frustration, I have been there, but recognize it for what it is.

[s]

I think it is hard to go straight to geek talk in some "who-really-gives-a-shit" thread. I think the main problem is the quantity not quality of the thread topics. I appreciate light topics, but too many are just awful and they make sifting through the forum almost.*gulp* work. I loved some of the serious topics this past fall. Not all interesting people will stay on topic and be serious, my friend. I think we have all bantered off topic, but I understand where you are coming from on this.

[mgb]

Exactly.

Notice that only you and a troll are the only ones to really disagree with me so far?

I guess that makes me a troll.

What is the difference between your thread "There is a lot of drivel on here now..." and thread by a troll titled "Delete this shithole forum, please"?

You are both complaining about the forum as a whole and criticizing the bulk of the members. So what if you have been here longer.

Now when confronted about this you start with the name calling and implications. You started the thread, better come up with some better defenses against what you are saying than that.

[MacGuffin]

No, you are not a troll. I am just pointing out the fact that many who have been here since late summer/fall agree with me.

And the difference between "There is a lot of drivel on here now..." and "Delete this shithole forum, please" is the difference between "Iraq is really messed up" and "Nuke those ragheads!"

I am not cricizing the bulk of the members. There are a minority of posters leading the shit charge, and many have got sucked into their wake.

I don't think I have called anyone a name, but I have criticized their behavior. INTPs can deal.

[s]

I am not a troll?

Damn.

[Claverhouse]

Dear old Universal --- How long ago it seems, those dear dead days of the past...

OK, he was a Troll's Troll, but I felt there was no real harm in the fellow, more like a drunken Norwegian sailor who's stumbled into a reading room and stares muzzily at the book-shelves, wondering what they're for. I vaguely think he said something nasty to someone about sex, so it was best he was kicked out, but the bullying seemed a bit overdone. Simpler to just remove him quietly...

But he wasn't pompous, didn't shriek loudly, and dropped very little litter about. Those were good times...



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[s]

*hands MacGuffin a beer*

[nobarcode]

I think it is hard to go straight to geek talk in some "who-really-gives-a-shit" thread. I think the main problem is the quantity not quality of the thread topics. I appreciate light topics, but too many are just awful and they make sifting through the forum almost.*gulp* work. I loved some of the serious topics this past fall. Not all interesting people will stay on topic and be serious, my friend. I think we have all bantered off topic, but I understand where you are coming from on this.
That's the "sitting on the fence" response. If we could get back to that, I would consider it an improvement.

[nobarcode]

Dear old Universal --- How long ago it seems, those dear dead days of the past...

OK, he was a Troll's Troll, but I felt there was no real harm in the fellow, more like a drunken Norwegian sailor who's stumbled into a reading room and stares muzzily at the book-shelves, wondering what they're for. I vaguely think he said something nasty to someone about sex, so it was best he was kicked out, but the bullying seemed a bit overdone. Simpler to just remove him quietly...

But he wasn't pompous, didn't shriek loudly, and dropped very little litter about. Those were good times...



Claverhouse :ph34r:

.....see what I mean.

*snickers*

[Edmond Zedo]

"With our tolerance, we buy our freedom." --A Random Author. I can't abide pinkos.

[ApeTheDog]

I don't know what state this place used to be in, but I do know that to attempt to make this forum anything other than what presently it is would be wrong. This is it's natural state - what's being talked about automatically crystalises from the interests of the people who come here. Apparantly, right now there are less people present here who are interested in intelligent debate. It would be wrong to try and enforce the preferred state of few over the balance which has naturally formed and, important, in which each has had an equal sayin. Because this is something you can't forget. If you dislike the way this forum is now, you needed only to change the way you posted/started topics the way you wanted them. All have had equal contribution in making the forum the state it is in.

If the forum used to be more serious, then that's because back then the ratio of more serious people versus others was higher. It makes as much sense now to try and make this place more like it was then as it would when a person half a year ago would have tried to make the place lighter in spirit.

I'm not saying the way things are right now are better, or worse, than they were a while ago. All I'm saying is that to try and forcibly change that which has formed naturally would border on fascism, and I must plead against that.

As for whether the moderators and owner of this forum have the right to be fascists, that is another matter, and one which they have to decide for themselves. I would prefer them not to be, but they do pay for the server this forum runs on, and spend time moderating this place.

[CreativeChaos]

Uhhhh.... I'm really shy about posting here, being the new kid on the block and an INFP who has caused some hard feelings, and created some stir. Maybe I'm one of the trolls you're refering to. I'm not that familiar with forums either. But I have been posting on the INFP site since September. I decided to come over here in December because there was some confusion on INFP and INTP. I lurked for a while before posting. I've tried to stay in the strictly NF/NT threads.

We have an opposite problem. We have 350 members but few posts. I was feeling like a real blabbermouth when I got to 70 posts. It seems over here that there is a contest kind of atmosphere about getting a lot of posts. If that "value" is promoted then I'd say you are likely to get quantity over quality. The opposite value is taken at the INFP site. I've posted over 200 posts and am by far the largest poster. I was trying to stir up some discussion and get people out of thier "shy" mode of not posting too much.

I have rarely ever posted a "one-liner" over there. Most posts are like this one with several paragraphs of serious disscussion. It takes time to read and time to post. If you're going for 1000 posts, to get your name in the hat or whatever "reward", then post post postpospostpostpostpostspotpsotsotp
and the quality goes zoom. Down.

Now you have to consider what quality is. It's not about how many lines, it's about the time and thought that goes into a post.

I think the chattiness here is great. I've had a lot of fun with it. (I hope you are not all too put out with me.) I have made sexual induendoes that I have NEVER made on the INFP site and probably wouldn't.

I think you guys should be proud of your forum. It's the best MBTI forum on the web (that I know of anyway). I say there is plenty of room for chat and plenty of room for serious posts.

But if you think the quality of posts has gone down, think about what you are "rewarding" here. You are not "rewarding" quality and depth of posting, you are rewarding quantity. So people come in here and think, "Oh, gee! If I really want to be "in" here, I better start posting." Then you get a lot of chat and less serious posts. Think about ways to "reward" what you want and you will probably get it.

I hope I haven't offended anyone here. I am truly trying to give some insight into this subject. I think it is an important one. I am not sure about allowing a lot of other types in either (although I am one). It's an INTP forum. It should be kept focused on INTPs. If other types want to post here, I say they should defer to the INTP point of view, and keep their posts to areas that deal with multiple types. I have been trying to do that myself. (Although, I've broken my rule on occassion). I have only once voted in a poll that was not related to INTP. Only INTPs should vote on most of these polls, since you are obviously trying to get an INTP point of view.

AND I totally agree with getting rid of that troll. He was just here to make a mess. If you allow people to stay like that the place real really go to the dogs. I would hope our Admins. would throw anyone out like that who comes onto the INFP site.

This is a forum for INTPs. Not a free for all. People are free to speak whatever they like but not wherever they like. You can't yell "fire" in a movie theater. I've kept my opinions on this forum to myself, until now. And this is all I'll have to say unless you have questions.

And again, I hope I haven't offended anyone.

[mgb]

What hard feelings have you caused?

And could CC stand for Chaty Cathy?

[CreativeChaos]

Originally posted by mgbradsh:
What hard feelings have you caused?

And could CC stand for Chaty Cathy?

Hee! Thanks mgbradsh for that vote of confidence. :wub:

[shaytana]

Hee! Thanks mgbradsh for that vote of confidence. :wub:

I can't speak for anyone else but I have enjoyed your posts since you joined the forum. You are one of the most considerate people I know (without actually really knowing).

I have no problems with other types joining the forum, as long as they do remember that this is an INTP forum.

[SheepDog]

I wouldn't say I've been missing it, Bob.

[mgb]

I wouldn't say I've been missing it, Bob.

Sheepdog!!!

Where the hell is that from, I can't quite think of it...oh yeah, Office Space...awesome.

[CreativeChaos]

Originally posted by Shaytana:
I can't speak for anyone else but I have enjoyed your posts since you joined the forum. You are one of the most considerate people I know (without actually really knowing).

I have no problems with other types joining the forum, as long as they do remember that this is an INTP forum.

Thanks Shaytana! :D

[Sackanaka]

As long as the only intent for posting isn't to piss people off, I'm sure you'll be fine.

[jimbowley]

I've only just arrived and don't know the specifics but I can still disagree with ApeTheDog, I don't want a forum where anything goes and majority rules. I want a forum for INTPs to discuss INTP things in an INTP manner.

Unfortunately I can't find a charter to support my views so if the forum isn't to my liking I'll have to lump it or look for somewhere else.

And whilst I'm almost ranting: I think it should be obligatory for non INTPs to declare their type in their signature.

[Division56]

I've only just arrived and don't know the specifics but I can still disagree with ApeTheDog, I don't want a forum where anything goes and majority rules. I want a forum for INTPs to discuss INTP things in an INTP manner.

Unfortunately I can't find a charter to support my views so if the forum isn't to my liking I'll have to lump it or look for somewhere else.

And whilst I'm almost ranting: I think it should be obligatory for non INTPs to declare their type in their signature.

Hahaha, watch it. Everyone loves calling everyone Nazis around here.

*puts on his pink triangle and goes back to his work duty*

[Geoff]

I think it wouldnt hurt to raise the standard of discourse somewhat!

Trying to keep decent comments to interesting threads, at least.

-Geoff

[ApeTheDog]

I've only just arrived and don't know the specifics but I can still disagree with ApeTheDog, I don't want a forum where anything goes and majority rules. I want a forum for INTPs to discuss INTP things in an INTP manner.

Unfortunately I can't find a charter to support my views so if the forum isn't to my liking I'll have to lump it or look for somewhere else.

And whilst I'm almost ranting: I think it should be obligatory for non INTPs to declare their type in their signature.

You don't want a place where majority rules - yet you want this to be a forum for INTP's to discuss INTP things in an INTP manner. The majority here is INTP, is it not? These things are the same.

Granted, there should be measures to keep this place INTP. Other types shouldn't be able to chase us away from here, or influence this forum, because there are many places for them to be themselves in and only one for us. But I don't think this happens.

If it has changed, I think it has changed, like most all forums do, by becoming more popular. When more people come here, it becomes increasingly harder to draw attention to yourself, and that always creates friction, sometimes trolling (because trolling is a way of drawing attention to oneself). Also, the people who used to be here when it began will often think things used to be better in the past, because back then everything was still new to them. It's kind of like with old people who think things were better in the past. They weren't, the old person in question just wasn't a miserable old fart back tje, with a gloomy outlook and no new experiences under their belt in a long time, back then. Novelty is what makes things fun.

Anyway, it's not my decision at all, and I'm just happy I can come here. Things are good for me, and needn't change at all. I'm in favor of total status quo. That is, in as much as a newbie like myself is allowed to be in favor of anything at all.

[jimbowley]

I haven't got a good feel for how good/bad the current situation is but I read your post as suggesting a hands off approach ie no moderation or bannings. In your last post you appear to be tolerant of trolls.

You can't have status quo without someone enforcing it, all you will get is degeneration with more and more mindless posts. Just wait til the word gets out that there's a forum for intelligent discussion that instead of banning trolls has discussions about them.

[ApeTheDog]

No, I'm sorry, that's not what I meanth at all. With 'status quo' I meanth the way the forum is, presently, with all the moderation that is currently in place and all the people who are currently here, all the topics that are currently being discussed, etc... basically, all I was saying is that, for me, there is no problem at all with the forum in it's present state.

When I read through this thread, it also seemed to me that a lot of people who were here when this forum got founded, think it has changed a lot and is no longer the same fun place they remember it to be. I wanted to present the viewpoint that this could very much be because they had changed in relation to the forum, as much as that this was because the forum itself had changed.

It's been a while since I read through the thing, so I may have taken a bit of an enthusiastic leap there, but it also seemed to me that these people wanted to change this. Perhaps I'm wrong here. I used to be one of the oldest members on a rather old internet forum, and this discussion was waged there many times. Perhaps I heard/imagined the many 'we should change it back to the way it was' that were said back then, and it wasn't said in this thread.

I actually don't think our viewpoints differ much at all, jimbowley, and that's not very surprising because I get the impression that, difference of opinion we may have right now, we both still want very much the exact same thing. I also don't want trolls here. I don't want this place to turn into a cesspool. I just don't think that trying to forcibly change it because some older members pine for the way it used to be is necesary.

Because, and this I know from that other forum where I went a long time, it will never be the way it used to be. Where there are many people, the intimacy and friendship and we're all one big group-thang goes down. Such changes are in my opinion unavoidable and irreversible.

[MacGuffin]

If it has changed, I think it has changed, like most all forums do, by becoming more popular. When more people come here, it becomes increasingly harder to draw attention to yourself, and that always creates friction, sometimes trolling (because trolling is a way of drawing attention to oneself). Also, the people who used to be here when it began will often think things used to be better in the past, because back then everything was still new to them. It's kind of like with old people who think things were better in the past. They weren't, the old person in question just wasn't a miserable old fart back tje, with a gloomy outlook and no new experiences under their belt in a long time, back then. Novelty is what makes things fun.

This is where I want to disagree with some of the newer posters.

I've only been on the INTP forum (here and the previous incarnation) for only about 6-7 months. I don't think I have changed much in that timespan to affect my outlook on life or any particular part (like posting on a forum). Ergo, the forum has changed, not me.

Also, I have been posting on message boards for at least a decade. So forums are certainly not novel.

What was new, was the fact it was an INTP forum. At first, there were not a lot of people and discussions were slow and often died out. But what discussion there was seemed interesting and mostly respectful (Universal excepted).

But since, I'd say, late November or so the character of the forum changed. What made it unique and interesting seemed to lessen. It became more like any other forum I can find on the internet.

INTPs pride themselves on being only 1% of the population and having a different way of looking at things.

This thread was not started to ask for more moderation or to have admins step in. It was not addressed to the "trolls" and potential "trolls". It was more of challenge to posters - to ask people to curtail the behavior that seemingly dumbed down the forum.

Not every post has to be a thesis-level dissertation. There is nothing wrong with having fun and making frivolous posts. I do it. But if that is all you do, what is the point of having an INTP forum?

[Boneca]

First of all, I'd like to apologise. I know I have been bantering about totally off-topic things, and in retrospect I realise that it must have been irritating for other people.

But while writing that apology, I'm thinking that perhaps that is what is missing.
A lot of people here seem to think that they have the right to post whatever they want, and if someone is insulted or annoyed, it's their problem.
But why would we have such a right? This is NGene's forum, not ours. Therefore, we will have to respect her, and in her absence, the admins and moderators that were appointed with her approval.
And even if it was indeed common property, you'd still be expected to show a certain level of politeness. "Politeness" might sound boring, but it is actually what makes it possible for people of different opinions to interact with each other, in real life as well as on forums.

Therefore, if I sense that people get upset or annoyed by my posts, I will change my behaviour. My purpose here is not to irritate people.

[jyakulis]

1) Sexual innuendo

2) Random posting unrelated to the topic

3) Flaming and discussions of who to ban

4) Yet another poll



1 guilty
2 guilty
3 not guilty
4 not guilty

I'd like to think amongst my drivel i have a few interesting things to say maybe a good web link or two. SORRY TO BOTHER YOU!

[CreativeChaos]

Originally posted by MacGuffin:
INTPs pride themselves on being only 1% of the population and having a different way of looking at things.

This thread was not started to ask for more moderation or to have admins step in. It was not addressed to the "trolls" and potential "trolls". It was more of challenge to posters - to ask people to curtail the behavior that seemingly dumbed down the forum.

Not every post has to be a thesis-level dissertation. There is nothing wrong with having fun and making frivolous posts. I do it. But if that is all you do, what is the point of having an INTP forum?

Pooh! I can't keep my INFP nose out of this. This is too exciting. Bravo! MacGuffin, Bravo! :thumbup:

I just hope this doesn't mean I'll be kicked out, just confined to certain places. :D (That's refering to the post on changes being made)

[mgb]

Hey I started at the start of November!

Don't worry CC, I think INTPs need INFPs around to balance things out a bit. If there was one thing I could change out things it would be to understand and use the F function more.

I agree that people could be more understanding. Being INTP doesn't mean thinking or acting the same way though, so I think some INTPs act in a manner in which other INTPs don't like and someone ends up not sticking around.

As far as the list of four things wrong, I probably do the first two, less on number one, but if a thread becomes a chat room I don't complain. On the last two, I don't think there should be banning discussion and I try not to flame people unless flamed first (some may argue). And I am quickly beginning to hate polls and have even started poll-less threads about how we need less polls.

There is some veiled finger pointing here that I don't really like, so I suggest we invite everyone to have it out and get it over with with some sort of "I don't like the way you..." thread, that I don't care to start.

[CreativeChaos]

Originally posted by mgbradsh:
And I am quickly beginning to hate polls and have even started poll-less threads about how we need less polls.

Ha! Yeah! I personally don't pay attention to most of them. Thanks for the vote of confidence. I'd say being a "P" forum, naturally there will be a lack of "structure" and "discipline", when the numbers get large. Maybe you guys should bring in some of those ornory ESTJ types to get things organized. ;) After all they have to be good for something, right? :P

(whoops! :blush: I think I just flamed somebody!) I used to keep that honor for EZ. ;) *shoosh!*

[ApeTheDog]

Ah, yes. Then I now propose instead of what I proposed before, that we all have a jolly good time. All in favor don't reply to this thread at all.

Motion passed!

[Mariel]

I've been here lurking around since the summer and the forum has changed a lot. I do agree with the idea that non-INTPs should make their type known in their signature, and post only to threads that do invite comment from other types. This forum has definitely been enlightening to those of us who are close friends of INTPs. The types of threads and topics that were being posted shed a lot of light on how INTPs function. The trend toward "fluff" doesn't quite represent it as much.

[Avengardh]

I already said what I thought about this in one of UtopMK's threads.

I would think the mods/admins are still working on structure, etc, so, perhaps it's just a time to be patient and try to think of "better" things to post about instead of attacking each other.
Speaking generally, I am not accusing anyone.

For one, I would love to see new ideas being implemented, but I am afraid, for now, I have run out of suggestions.

How about everyone else?

~*Aven*~

[Lee]

I think we should have a pool table.

[songbird36]

I think there's a good balance between "drivel" (so to speak - I prefer to use "frivolity"), and serious issues discussion threads.

I usually find something to cater for any mood I happen to be in

[CreativeChaos]

Originally posted by Mariel:
I've been here lurking around since the summer and the forum has changed a lot. I do agree with the idea that non-INTPs should make their type known in their signature, and post only to threads that do invite comment from other types. This forum has definitely been enlightening to those of us who are close friends of INTPs. The types of threads and topics that were being posted shed a lot of light on how INTPs function. The trend toward "fluff" doesn't quite represent it as much.

I agree Mariel. I try to stay away from topics that seem to be for the purpose of INTPs. If it is a "fluff" topic, that really seems just for fun, like the viscious cats, then I'll post. But I make it well known I'm an INFP. I don't know how it was before. But I think that other types should place their type and should be restricted from threads that are to gather INTP reactions. And no type should take offense to that. If they do, so what? It's an INTP forum. If I'm posting where someone thinks I shouldn't please say so (in a nice manner) and I won't post in that thread agian. I try to be sensitive to where I post, though. It doesn't seem to me that there are that many other types. I've started a general N board, trying to get those of another type to come and take my poll to get an idea of how many and of what are of other types. I havn't gotton many responses. When I read through stuff, I dont see that many other types. But then, maybe they aren't posting their type.

[purple13]

Things seemed to have settled down now that we are troll free.

[indie]

For an example of what I sometimes hate about the 'serious posting' on here, refer to the wal-mart is evil thread. *shudders*

FYI, it is titled "Is Wal-Mart Evil?" Big difference. That is the very first and only poll I have ever done on this site. And it is decidedly lacking in those 1-2 line replies. And it has a rather good discussion about corporate America.

What, exactly do you "hate about the 'serious' posting'"?

[booyalab]

FYI, it is titled "Is Wal-Mart Evil?" Big difference. That is the very first and only poll I have ever done on this site. And it is decidedly lacking in those 1-2 line replies. And it has a rather good discussion about corporate America.

What, exactly do you "hate about the 'serious' posting'"?

The premise of that discussion is retarded, IMHO. Language is the most important part of any discussion and most of it in that thread was categorically wrong. So I do NOT share your view that the discussion was any good. My complaint was mostly directed towards CorporateWhore- since most of my remarks in our argument involved having to clarify earlier ones. It is a total waste of time, in serious discussions on here, when I expend any effort towards trying to make my point only to have it: misconstrued and/or taken out of context and/or analogies misinterpreted and/or ignored in favor of personally attacks/temper tantrums, etc. (i.e. this, since i'm just saying in other words what i've already said on this thread....but too bad for me! because it will happen again and again and again..)

[Claverhouse]

PLACE-HOLDER FOR CLASSIC STATUS

[MacGuffin]

Back from the dead!

[Architectonic]

There is always a lot of drivel on forums. This is neither a new or old concept...

[MacGuffin]

Maybe this happens at the beginning of every new year...

[Serotonin]

One thing that impressed me as I lurked the few weeks before I joined was the high level of intelligence evident in the vast majority of the regular posters. I also think this forum was noteworthy for its civility - one could disagree with another without resorting to mudslinging.

*ODs on nostalgia*

[last_caress]

I have interacted with plenty of younger people that are able to elevate their conversation above that of a junior high snark-fest.

and all of those managed that feat all the time? they have no sense of humour? how boring.


Believe it or not it IS possible to be relevant, sophisticated AND funny all at the same time.

[Architectonic]

Maybe this happens at the beginning of every new year...

No, it happens all the time. ;)

[Lee]

*ahem*

[Stillwater]

I have only been here a couple weeks, and I see a difference. Not sure if that's perception or a reality. Early on I was reading all the old threads that interested me- ignoring the chaff. Now I am watching with anticipation as each new thread being created- not all are golden. Maybe I just need to take a step back.

For new members, we pretty much adapt to the culture of the forum. Those born at a time of intellectual low tide might get the wrong impression and the death spiral begins. I think with a few smart posts, this can be reversed.

For the 1000+ club, maybe all those pent-up profound ideas were shared at the beginning, now those ideas are spaced a little further apart? Maybe the more time spent talking to one another, the more chatty the exchanges become- less and less cerebral?

I like this place, but I agree the content could use a nudge. I'll try to do my part. In the meantime there are crickets chirping on the introductions section- I know, I know, it's trivial crap...

[dubbeltop]

then why are we still typing because we are intp and we love to argue bitch etc you for the sake of learning how too bullshit our way through life and i think we do a pretty good job. soo....thats my view of it

[CoHo]

Circle Complete (http://forums.intpcentral.com/showthread.php?45808-There-is-a-lot-of-drivel-on-here-now...).

[Phreon]

How ironic.

"Troublemakers" were purged and the forum is much more subdued and constrained than it used to be; look how lively the site has become! And look how post quality, engagement and outright fun have increased exponentially! Do you think we're experiencing an INTPc renaissance right now? I didn't think so.

Ponehr

[D33P7HR047]

Usually it's best to create a more egalitarian premise for discussion; not too challenging and nothing to intimidate people with.

D33P7HR047

[Phreon]

Usually it's best to create a more egalitarian premise for discussion; not too challenging and nothing to intimidate people with.

D33P7HR047

If you believe that, then INTPc indeed is dead. If I wanted to chit-chat about the weather, I'd be on Facebook right now.

henroP

[MacGuffin]

How ironic.
i·ro·ny    [ahy-ruh-nee, ahy-er-]
noun, plural -nies.
1. the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning: the irony of her reply, “How nice!” when I said I had to work all weekend.
2. Literature .
_a. a technique of indicating, as through character or plot development, an intention or attitude opposite to that which is actually or ostensibly stated.
_b. (especially in contemporary writing) a manner of organizing a work so as to give full expression to contradictory or complementary impulses, attitudes, etc., especially as a means of indicating detachment from a subject, theme, or emotion.
3. Socratic irony.
4. dramatic irony.
5. an outcome of events contrary to what was, or might have been, expected.

[stuck]

dont cha think

[MacGuffin]

I have ten thousand spoons.

[stuck]

its like brains on your wedding brains