Dinosaurs were on Noah's Ark

[ataronchronon]

What else is there for me to say?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070526/us_nm/usa_museum_dc

[ajblaise]

i wonder if they will include all the things in genisis that make them look even more rediculous then saying dinosaurs were on the ark, like how big the ark was:

“And this is the fashion of which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits” (Genesis 6:15). (A cubit is between 18 and 24 inches.)

[libertarianjim]

MC Hawking's "Fuck the Creationists" would be appropriate here:

"If them superstitious motherfuckers want to have that kind of party, I'm going to put my dick in the mashed potatoes. Fucking creationists. Fuck them."

[Oso Mocoso]

i wonder if they will include all the things in genisis that make them look even more rediculous then saying dinosaurs were on the ark, like how big the ark was:

?And this is the fashion of which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits? (Genesis 6:15). (A cubit is between 18 and 24 inches.)

I'd always wondered if they would try to tell you that the ark was able to hold all those animals because it was bigger than an aircraft carrier. Apparently not?

--Oso

[Jennywocky]

What else is there for me to say?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070526/us_nm/usa_museum_dc

I wonder how many sheep they brought along to feed the pair of T-Rex's.

(Or maybe it's why we never hear about Noah's fourth son, Morsel.)

[mancroft]

These guys at Creation Museum have worked out a marvellous way to make money out of the stoopid.

"There's a sucker born every minute."

[bdbthinker]

well, that solves the age-old question:
Are dinosaurs allergic to gopher wood?

[tinribz]

i wonder if they will include all the things in genisis that make them look even more rediculous then saying dinosaurs were on the ark, like how big the ark was:

?And this is the fashion of which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits? (Genesis 6:15). (A cubit is between 18 and 24 inches.)

The number of 'kinds' of animals was much less then apparently and the number of dinosaurs is less than commonly believed. All the answers are here: http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v19/i2/animals.asp



The Ark measured 300x50x30 cubits (Genesis 6:15 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=gen+6:15&version=NKJV)), which is about 140x23x13.5 metres or 459x75x44 feet, so its volume was 43,500 m3 (cubic metres) or 1.54 million cubic feet. To put this in perspective, this is the equivalent volume of 522 standard American railroad stock cars, each of which can hold 240 sheep.


If the animals were kept in cages with an average size of 50x50x30 centimetres (20x20x12 inches), that is 75,000 cm3 (cubic centimetres) or 4800 cubic inches, the 16,000 animals would only occupy 1200 m3 (42,000 cubic feet) or 14.4 stock cars. Even if a million insect species had to be on board, it would not be a problem, because they require little space. If each pair was kept in cages of 10 cm (four inches) per side, or 1000 cm3, all the insect species would occupy a total volume of only 1000 m3, or another 12 cars. This would leave room for five trains of 99 cars each for food, Noah?s family and ?range? for the animals. However, insects are not included in the meaning of behemah or remes in Genesis 6:19-20, so Noah probably would not have taken them on board as passengers anyway.


Tabulating the total volume is fair enough, since this shows that there would be plenty of room on the Ark for the animals with plenty left over for food, range etc. It would be possible to stack cages, with food on top or nearby (to minimize the amount of food carrying the humans had to do), to fill up more of the Ark space, while still allowing plenty of room for gaps for air circulation. We are discussing an emergency situation, not necessarily luxury accommodation. Although there is plenty of room for exercise, skeptics have overstated animals? needs for exercise anyway.


Even if we don?t allow stacking one cage on top of another to save floor space, there would be no problem. Woodmorappe shows from standard recommended floor space requirements for animals that all of them together would have needed less than half the available floor space of the Ark?s three decks. This arrangement allows for the maximum amount of food and water storage on top of the cages close to the animals.

:stupid:

[darlets]

I wonder how many sheep they brought along to feed the pair of T-Rex's.

(Or maybe it's why we never hear about Noah's fourth son, Morsel.)

That's just silly. Everyone knows they feed them on the Australia Megafauna

"Diprotodon optatum was the largest species of Diprotodontid. Approximately three metres long, two metres high at the shoulder and weighing up to two tonnes, it resembled a giant wombat. It is the largest marsupial currently known."

"Zaglossus hacketti was a sheep-sized echidna uncovered in Mammoth Cave in Western Australia, and is the largest monotreme so far uncovered."

Mega fauna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_megafauna)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9f/Diprotodon.jpg

Look, people need to be realistic. The Sumerians advanced Ark building alot when they built one to survive their flood and the Babylonian's refined it even more when they built one to survive their flood. (Though it is possible they just bought the Sumerians one.) By the time Matsya built his one, Ark building had advance to the point where he could attach cables to a giant fish to tow him to a mountain top.

Noah took all the advances in Ark design and construction to build his. I really don't find much remarkable about his Ark what so ever.

I do find it quite remarkable the genetic difference within any given species of animals that survived the flood, given they went through they tiniest genetic bottleneck possible (i.e a single breeding pair) only 6000 years ago. Though a form of super accelerated evolution would account for that, I guess.

[mancroft]

These people are gone in the head.

[ajblaise]

The number of 'kinds' of animals was much less then apparently and the number of dinosaurs is less than commonly believed. All the answers are here: http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v19/i2/animals.asp


:stupid:

*prays tinribz isn't being serious*

[macr0]

The Ark measured 300x50x30 cubits (Genesis 6:15), which is about 140x23x13.5 metres or 459x75x44 feet, so its volume was 43,500 m3 (cubic metres) or 1.54 million cubic feet. To put this in perspective, this is the equivalent volume of 522 standard American railroad stock cars, each of which can hold 240 sheep.

...

This arrangement allows for the maximum amount of food and water storage on top of the cages close to the animals.

Fuck these clowns.

[Jennywocky]

I do find it quite remarkable the genetic difference within any given species of animals that survived the flood, given they went through they tiniest genetic bottleneck possible (i.e a single breeding pair) only 6000 years ago. Though a form of super accelerated evolution would account for that, I guess.

Ummm... ouch!

(There's something I haven't heard be dealt with before.)

[Wolf]

I do find it quite remarkable the genetic difference within any given species of animals that survived the flood, given they went through they tiniest genetic bottleneck possible (i.e a single breeding pair) only 6000 years ago. Though a form of super accelerated evolution would account for that, I guess.
Curiously, it's almost reasonable, aside from major variations like Australia and nearby islands. It has recently been observed that specialization within a species can happen very rapidly, sometimes over the course of only a few generations. This is particularly visible in insects...

I wouldn't consider it unreasonable if we found an uninhabited planet identical to Earth with no indigenous life, that just seeding it with a few hundred examples of each bacteria genus, a thousand years later a few hundred examples of each plant genus within their growth range, a thousand years later dropping off a small breeding group of all major families of aquatic animals, and another thousand years later dropping off a small breeding group of all families of air/land animal, that it would end up like Earth more-or-less as we know it today with reasonably-high plant/animal diversity within 5-6k years. It's those pesky evolutionary jumps that are exceptionally rare to the point of never having been witnessed and recorded in human history. Drop even a pair of grass seeds on a planet like that and it could take millions of years (if they survive the lack of CO2 and had their required bacteria with them) to have more than just grasses covering the planet. A couple billion years and you might have an animal or two...

[darlets]

Curiously, it's almost reasonable, aside from major variations like Australia and nearby islands. It has recently been observed that specialization within a species can happen very rapidly, sometimes over the course of only a few generations. This is particularly visible in insects...

Can I have a link to this research?????

"Cheetahs are very inbred. They are so inbred, that genetically they are almost identical.

The current theory is that they became inbred when a "natural" disaster dropped their total world population down to less than seven individual cheetahs - probably about 10,000 years ago. They went through a "Genetic Bottleneck", and their genetic diversity plummeted. They survived only through brother-to-sister or parent-to-child mating."

link (http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/moments/s40791.htm)
I would have thought this would have happened in complicated animals????

[darlets]

Ummm... ouch!

(There's something I haven't heard be dealt with before.)

It makes sense when you account for the super accelerated tectonic theory so that the land animals could reach certain places, or the really quick ice age to uptake water into ice so land or ice bridges would form between continents/island. Though I guess Noah could have just delivered them all back to their specific islands. Turkey to Tasmania is a long walk for a Tasmanian Devil and Tasmanian Tiger.

Then there was that super quick and targeted asteriod raid that created all the caters in earth and other planets and moons in our solar system, without destory life on our own planet.

This is a Mimas doing an impression of the death star. Kinda neat don't you think.
http://www.nmm.ac.uk/upload/img/Cassini-Mimas-1.jpg

Lucky God created all that light intransit from those stars more than 10,000 light years away, other wise they'd just becoming "online" to us now.

[Lateralus]

How did Noah find penguins and polar bears to put on the ark? Did he sail to Australia to collect the marsupials? Or did he leave them to fend for themselves?

After the flood, he built another boat to distribute those animals back to their natural habit, right? So Noah discovered America?

[Oso Mocoso]

If the animals were kept in cages with an average size of 50x50x30 centimetres (20x20x12 inches), that is 75,000 cm3 (cubic centimetres) or 4800 cubic inches, the 16,000 animals would only occupy 1200 m3 (42,000 cubic feet) or 14.4 stock cars. Even if a million insect species had to be on board, it would not be a problem, because they require little space. If each pair was kept in cages of 10 cm (four inches) per side, or 1000 cm3, all the insect species would occupy a total volume of only 1000 m3, or another 12 cars. This would leave room for five trains of 99 cars each for food, Noah?s family and ?range? for the animals.


Wait ... the 16,000 animals? :rofl: That's 8,000 pairs of animals?

Someone apparently doesn't leave Kansas much.

--Oso

[darlets]

There's also the whole fresh water/salt water aquatic animal thing. Did all of one type die out and then have to evolve from the other 6000 years? When the ocean covers the entire planet is it fresh water or salt water?

There's also the question of what happens to the temperature of the earth
if we had cloud cover over the entire planet for 40 days.

"Albedo" is how much light a colour absorbs reflects. White having the highest and black the lowest.

"The effects of snow and cloud cover on planetary albedo are examined using observations from NOAA polar orbiting satellites. Reflected radiation was measured in the visible range (0.5 - 0.7 μm). Planetary albedos resulting from different cloud/snow cover conditions are compared using Northern Hemisphere snow cover maps, surface weather charts, satellite photos and data on land surface types. None of the cases studied show that concurrent cloud and snow cover produces significantly different planetary albedos than cloud cover alone. Cloud cover alone is found to yield higher planetary albedos than snow cover alone; the difference being greatest over forested areas. With and without snow cover present, clear-sky planetary albedos over farming and grazing lands (snow(0.45), no snow(0.15)) are found to be significantly higher than those over forested regions (snow(0.33), no snow(0.11)). Variations in satellite zenith angle are not found to produce significant effects in most cases studied."
link (http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1985AdSpR...5..279K)

See, clouds are white (from space at least). And the more white a planet has the more sunlight is reflected out into space.

Also the temperature of the north and south pole are affected by warm currents that travel up from the equater. What happens to these currents if the planet was covered in water? Not that there's much sunlight hitting the earth anyway because of the cloud cover.

[LongSilence]

How did Noah find penguins and polar bears to put on the ark? Did he sail to Australia to collect the marsupials? Or did he leave them to fend for themselves?

After the flood, he built another boat to distribute those animals back to their natural habit, right? So Noah discovered America?

Don't worry, its ok- they probably just evolved from some of the regular birds and bears on the Ark. Oh wait...

[Ellipsis]

http://www.youdebate.com/cgi-bin/scarecrow/forum.cgi?forum=3

You will love what some people state there....thankfully it is a debate...but some people can't get it into there heads....ah well... The you debate site looks pretty cool too...

Example: Human DNA is proof that a Creator exists.. all scientists are now in agreement that a Creator must have designed us.

Human DNA is just too complex. Its more complex than anything Microsoft could engineer. Bill Gates even said this.

How could Microsoft Windows accidentally engineer itself. Evolution by definition menas an "accident of evolution"

Finally proof of God. Human DNA has been completely mapped and finally eveyrone is in agreement.

(Funny standred argument)

Other one:This whole debate seems to be the "Let Christians prove their point" channel. If someone could answer these question, I'd be satisfied.
Has evolution stopped? If not, then why don't apes still have human babies? What happened to the first human baby evovled from an ape? Who did it mate with, since we know that humans and apes do not produce offspring? Considering that apes are supposed to be our nearest evolutionary relative, and I do not see how we could have evolved from them, please tell me how we could have evovled from the primordial soup that science teaches us about?
Keep in mind that not only organized religions need faith to persist, so do theories.

I love these guys...this should be comedy.....no matter how many times it is repeated it is still funny

[Persicoana]

I think that if every animal was put on the predators would eat other animals so i don't agree with animals put on a boat. However i believe there is an element of truth in the flood as it is mentioned in more civilizations around the world than any other recorded event. Total around 500 legends! And what about plants and trees! They cant all survive under water.

[mgb]

I think that if every animal was put on the predators would eat other animals so i don't agree with animals put on a boat. However i believe there is an element of truth in the flood as it is mentioned in more civilizations around the world than any other recorded event. Total around 500 legends! And what about plants and trees! They cant all survive under water.

Those are some really excellent points. Good to see someone is putting a lot of thought into this.

[NkedMRat]

i thought they went extinct because they couldn't fit

[Jennywocky]

... And what about plants and trees! They cant all survive under water.


Those are some really excellent points. Good to see someone is putting a lot of thought into this.

Honestly, it was all part of God's plan to save mangoes and eggplants, so that chutney dishes would not vanish from the face of the earth.

(Humans were an afterthought, we're lucky there was extra room.)

[Arcades]

Theres a guy at work. Otherwise he is easy to talk to, but he is convinced that the earth is only 6000 years old. His defence is to state something outside of my knowledge to prove he is right. So I have to go and research the damned subject to make sure im right, then he rattles off some other "fact" that I have to go research yet again. Last week I had to learn all about carbon dating and its failures to prove him wrong about some damned story he was using as a defence.

I think my anger comes from the fact that his defence requires no proof, only faith and crack pot web sites.

[oxyjen]

I wonder how many sheep they brought along to feed the pair of T-Rex's.

(Or maybe it's why we never hear about Noah's fourth son, Morsel.)


Yes, because after all by this time T. Rex's had ceased being vegetarians. (http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/what-happened-to-the-dinosaurs)

I really couldn't believe on fundie radio they claimed that all animals were herbivores, and only started eating one another when "sin entered the world."

That their science/logic is wonky is a given, the fact they are conspiciously mum on the ethics of meat-eating seriously makes me question their gusto.

[elfsprin]

Theres a guy at work. Otherwise he is easy to talk to, but he is convinced that the earth is only 6000 years old. His defense is to state something outside of my knowledge to prove he is right. So I have to go and research the damned subject to make sure im right, then he rattles off some other "fact" that I have to go research yet again. Last week I had to learn all about carbon dating and its failures to prove him wrong about some damned story he was using as a defense.

I think my anger comes from the fact that his defense requires no proof, only faith and crack pot web sites.

i went to high school with a guy who turned out ultra-fundamentalist (and converted one of my closer female acquaintances, then married her and promptly got her permanently barefoot and pregnant, in the kitchen).

every time i brought up the fact that many of the bible's stories could be shown to be rewrites of older, ancient near eastern (ANE) myths, he would just throw back at me : "carbon dating is wrong."

anyway, the flood story can be found in countless religious traditions predating judaism and the yhwh cult it grew from. much like the two creation stories in genesis, etc. etc. ad naseum. every 'famous' story clipping from the old testament can be traced to older myths that read nearly identically, with different leading characters. the point of the stories was not to claim that they were possessed of absolute truth, but to take preexisting concepts of deities, morality, and the meaning of life, and to rewrite them in significant ways to symbolize why the yhwh followers believed their religion to be special, new, and possessed of merit.

claims that they are word-for-word, historical accounts of 'what went down,' as well as many of the absurd details found in the stories (the size of the ark, for example), can be attributed to later writers (stories began as oral tradition, then were written down in their various forms, then often edited hundreds of years later why persons with a new worldview and philosophy about life and god). if we could go back in time to the point where it became all-the-rage to spout off the ark's dimensions, i bet we'd find that the current popular theory was that men and animals in noah's time had been teensy, or something like that. anyway.

by conducting studies into the linguistic structure and vocabulary used in the original language versions of the texts of the OT, it is a pretty basic task to figure out at what point different paragraphs of different stories were written- for the pentateuch, it is commonly agreed upon that there are four distinct writers (http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_tora1.htm) / editors, and via cross-reference there's been a common agreement about what historical period each one lived in. it's actually quite fascinating.*

the epic of enuma elish and the epic of gilgamesh should be mandatory reading for christians.

i just had to get this in there. so many religious threads, so few references to real scholarship. sigh.

*this was the first google hit for this that i found, i skimmed it and found it to be academically sound. i know it doesn't look all that professional, but it's the real deal.

EDIT: deluge mythologies for the curious reader. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deluge_%28mythology%29)

[Furtive]

Yes, because after all by this time T. Rex's had ceased being vegetarians. (http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/what-happened-to-the-dinosaurs)

I really couldn't believe on fundie radio they claimed that all animals were herbivores, and only started eating one another when "sin entered the world."

That their science/logic is wonky is a given, the fact they are conspiciously mum on the ethics of meat-eating seriously makes me question their gusto.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d38/5E9-A/humor-Noah-dino.jpg

It happened. Seriously.

[thod]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dendrochronology

[Tanner]

Can I have a link to this research?????

"Cheetahs are very inbred. They are so inbred, that genetically they are almost identical.

The current theory is that they became inbred when a "natural" disaster dropped their total world population down to less than seven individual cheetahs - probably about 10,000 years ago. They went through a "Genetic Bottleneck", and their genetic diversity plummeted. They survived only through brother-to-sister or parent-to-child mating."

link (http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/moments/s40791.htm)
I would have thought this would have happened in complicated animals????

I remember a video on youtube refuting the noah story by saying that if a pair of every animal were to repopulate the planet then every animal would have the same genetic variability as the cheetah. I suppose refuting such a story might be beating a dead horse, but then again enough people believe in it.