Are you spiritual?

[SolitaryWalker]

I think that Introverted Judgment has a lot to do with spirituality as it is about internally focused goals.

INFPs and ISFPs oftenly have very strong faith, regardless of whether they subscribe to any religion.

ISTPs and INTPs tend to be turned off by that because religion oftenly taints the image of spirituality. But I think spirituality does not have to have anything to do with religion and its always more difficult to be spiritual than to be religious. Being religious has more to do with bringing order to the world(EJ) than with finding a sense of higer, internally focused purpose (IP). And all in all I definitely think that it is a mistake for us to dismiss spirituality just because religion spoils its image by making so many unwarranted claims to the annexation of spirituality.

Many great INTPs in history understood this and were deeply spiritual while practicing no particular faith, Spinoza, Einstein and Jung among them.

Now, I ask you, are you spiritual in a way that I am using that word?

[paulwhy]

Now, I ask you, are you spiritual in a way that I am using that word?
Yes I am very spiritual whilst being an atheist.

And all in all I definitely think that it is a mistake for us to dismiss spirituality just because religion spoils its image by making so many unwarranted claims to the annexation of spirituality.

Many great INTPs in history understood this and were deeply spiritual while practicing no particular faith, Spinoza, Einstein and Jung among them.

I have another example. Phil Harding (unknown type) is an archaeologist on British television. I have no idea if he is religious or not. But when he starts flint napping it is clearly very spiritual. There is a very strong sense of connection with the Stone Age.

[PiccoloNamek]

No, and I'm indignant that other people are.

[antireconciler]

(P1) Spirituality in Seawolf's sense of the word is
[...] about internally focused goals[, ...] does not have to have anything to do with religion[, ... is] always more difficult [...] than to be religious[, ... and is about] finding a sense of higer, internally focused purpose (IP). [...]
(P2) Spirituality in Seawolf's sense of the word is pretty much a description of self-knowledge seeking.
(P3) Anyone attracted to personality typing is seeking self-knowledge.
(C) Anyone attracted to personality typing is pretty much spiritual in Seawolf's sense of the word.

(P4) Anyone on the "Mass of INTPness" forum is attracted to personality typing.
(C') Anyone on the "Mass of INTPness" forum is pretty much spiritual in Seawolf's sense of the word.

Hmm...
(P5) Seawolf's sense of the word "spiritual" is sufficient for spiritual simplicitor.
(C'') You're all pretty much spiritual.

[SolitaryWalker]

Only if studying typology is means to the end of gaining knowledge of your inner self 'soul searching' so to speak, most typology students fall short of this in favor of worldly pursuits.

[antireconciler]

Only if studying typology is means to the end of gaining knowledge of your inner self 'soul searching' so to speak, most typology students fall short of this in favor of worldly pursuits.


The trajectory of an ice rock in space can be bent subtlety under the influence of a nearby star as it passes by. Another can be captured and bound to the star. In each case, the source of the influence is the same: the nearby star. So too, studying typology can be a means to the end of gaining knowledge of one's inner self, or it can merely pull one's gaze inward for a short time as a means to some other end. In each case, however, the source of the influence was the same, for there is only one thing that can pull one's gaze inward, and we call this influence spirituality, for the gaze is pulled inward only by Spirit.

[SolitaryWalker]

The trajectory of an ice rock in space can be bent subtlety under the influence of a nearby star as it passes by. Another can be captured and bound to the star. In each case, the source of the influence is the same: the nearby star. So too, studying typology can be a means to the end of gaining knowledge of one's inner self, or it can merely pull one's gaze inward for a short time as a means to some other end. In each case, however, the source of the influence was the same, for there is only one thing that can pull one's gaze inward, and we call this influence spirituality, for the gaze is pulled inward only by Spirit.

Everyone who studies typology seeks inner knowledge to some extent, but I am saying that most people are not focused enough on it to be legitimately called 'soul seekers'.

[Nighthawk]

I am spiritual. Sometimes a difficult concept to come to terms with as an INTP ... or even an NT. It is deeply private for me and I don't share it with anybody. I don't believe in organized religion either. At the risk of being cliche or harping on a point, I found my spirituality in the middle of a war when nothing else could calm my fear of being captured, maimed, or killed. Ironically, there was only one holy man up front with us ... a Baptist chaplain. All the rest chose to minister their flock from the rear (no pun intended). Cowards almost all of them. They were not around then, and I don't need them around now.

Spirituality helps me with my addictive personality quirks too. Sometimes a belief in a higher power can help guide me through some rough times when I've gone overboard. I know ... none of this makes much sense to an NT. It still doesn't make sense to me half the time. I just believe in it and it helps get me through the world.

[geniusndisguise]

I am spiritual. Sometimes a difficult concept to come to terms with as an INTP ... or even an NT. It is deeply private for me and I don't share it with anybody.

Ditto. Except I haven't found it, I'm finding it. It doesn't always make sense, but neither does the concept of an empty, exclusively scientific world. The idea that there is nothing more than what can be easily understood and comprehended by the human mind is what makes less sense to me.

[Wiki]

*place holder for forthcoming input*

[Birdsnest]

I would say I am spiritual, but not religious with a mix to philosophy as well.

Row row row your boat has some good tips in it for living life:

"Row, row, row"

Participate in life, be present, be active, make things happen, go after what you need and want. Don't sit passively waiting for someone else to take care of things that concern you, do something.



The song continues: "Row, row, row YOUR boat"

Don't try to row someone else's boat, that's their job. Take care of YOUR life, YOUR responsibilities, pay attention to YOUR needs. Let other people take care of their own.



Back to the song: "Row, row, row your boat, GENTLY"

Be kind, compassionate, caring - towards yourself and others. Be gentle in your approach to life, don't force it.



The song goes on: "Row, row, row your boat, gently DOWN the stream"

Don't try to row upstream, against the current. Go with the flow of life, let there be an ease to it, don't fight it.



The next part of the song says "Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily"

This is supposed to be fun. Lighten up, relax, don't be so serious. Focus on the positive, and enjoy the journey.



And as you "Row, row, row your boat, gently down the stream

Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily"



Remember: "LIFE IS BUT A DREAM"

Life is an illusion that we create, so make it exactly what you want it to be.

[airjaw]

I'm spiritual.

[bluebell]

Row row row your boat has some good tips in it for living life:

"Row, row, row"

Participate in life, be present, be active, make things happen, go after what you need and want. Don't sit passively waiting for someone else to take care of things that concern you, do something.


The song continues: "Row, row, row YOUR boat"

Don't try to row someone else's boat, that's their job. Take care of YOUR life, YOUR responsibilities, pay attention to YOUR needs. Let other people take care of their own.


Back to the song: "Row, row, row your boat, GENTLY"

Be kind, compassionate, caring - towards yourself and others. Be gentle in your approach to life, don't force it.


The song goes on: "Row, row, row your boat, gently DOWN the stream"

Don't try to row upstream, against the current. Go with the flow of life, let there be an ease to it, don't fight it.


The next part of the song says "Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily"

This is supposed to be fun. Lighten up, relax, don't be so serious. Focus on the positive, and enjoy the journey.


I'm not spiritual.

But I do like Birdsnest's Row Your Boat as a guide to living life. :)

[Notsweetynice]

If there is such a thing as a spirit then we are all spiritual, right? How can one person be more spiritual than another?

Through the experience of life we all grow, improve, evolve. I don't think making a concerted effort to be more spiritual really does what it is supposed to.

In fact, most 'spiritual' people just seem to suppress themselves to such an extent that they lose their humour and discernment. Everything and anything becomes 'amazing' because they fear being judgemental and close minded.

[Faust06]

I'm not.. I don't think. Don't really know what it means anyway. Periods of deep reflection and self-searching don't lead me to peer into my soul.

Pretty much like Notsweetnice said. I figure either we all are, or we aren't.

[hereandnow]

No.

[Jennywocky]

Ditto. Except I haven't found it, I'm finding it. It doesn't always make sense, but neither does the concept of an empty, exclusively scientific world. The idea that there is nothing more than what can be easily understood and comprehended by the human mind is what makes less sense to me.

I find myself fluctuating wildly from day to day in terms of general questions like "Does God exist?" and "What is s/he/it like?"

I hate the inconsistency of it, and usually it seems to be a battle between my Ti function ("Nothing can be shown to prove God, everything has alternate explanations") versus Ne ("But what about this pattern? And that pattern? And maybe if you squint with your imagination, you can make out THAT right near the edge of your sight, and...")

And to be honest, there are some values there playing out as well: I feel like I need meaning to have an existence outside of myself, or otherwise it's all arbitrary and just something I've made up, so it's just illusory -- so why bother with it? IOW, I *want* to believe in something, I want to find something worth believing in, some reason to live.

Often, I can't find anything... at least, nothing definitive. It's frustrating, but I suppose that is the spiritual quest.

[Llewellyn]

(P1) Spirituality in Seawolf's sense of the word is
(P2) Spirituality in Seawolf's sense of the word is pretty much a description of self-knowledge seeking.
(P3) Anyone attracted to personality typing is seeking self-knowledge.
(C) Anyone attracted to personality typing is pretty much spiritual in Seawolf's sense of the word.

(P4) Anyone on the "Mass of INTPness" forum is attracted to personality typing.
(C') Anyone on the "Mass of INTPness" forum is pretty much spiritual in Seawolf's sense of the word.

Hmm...
(P5) Seawolf's sense of the word "spiritual" is sufficient for spiritual simplicitor.
(C'') You're all pretty much spiritual.

Great. I think you can see MBTI as a spirituality. It offers a "story", a way of looking at life, a means for connecting (with life and others).

On the poll I voted Yes. Not entirely convinced. But I'm at least interested in the topic. At least it seems true in SolitaryWalker's sense. I am very interested in the bigger meaning of life, the meaning of humanity. Sometimes, I think, more interested in that than in myself (now that sounds spiritual ;) )

[skip]

Spiritual and religious but it took me about thirty years to get there. Was all over the map in the process.

[Vagabond]

Perhaps... I suppose it is more accurate to say I am open to the idea of spirituality.

[LastRailway]

Nope, not spiritual.
I've always had a total lack of interest in spirituality. I gave up my religion because the rites were boring and complicated and I'm not an atheist I really don't give a damn if God exists or not.

[purveyor of truth]

I find that the more spiritual a person is the more hokey and weird they are. I've known christians that were barely spiritual and agnostics that were consumed by being spiritual, like earth people or whatever. I really dont understand it, it seems to be some imaginary force separate from religion.

[deuteros]

I am spiritual. Sometimes a difficult concept to come to terms with as an INTP ... or even an NT. It is deeply private for me and I don't share it with anybody.

I feel the same way about religion, but I don't really like that about myself. I don't even feel comfortable talking about religion with my wife, which is highly unusual for me because I am actually a very open person and my wife and I tell each other everything and we can talk about anything.

[Chunes]

I'm a materialist, so spirituality seems at odds. I outright abhor religion, and spirituality is merely its nebulous cousin. What is spirituality? Gratitude? Intense introspection? I simply refer to those by their rightful labels and cut the crap.

[walfin]

I'm a Christian and I think a lot of this "spirituality" stuff is bull.

[Llewellyn]

I'm a Christian and I think a lot of this "spirituality" stuff is bull.

To me this sounds a little like a contradiction, but well... I am convinced all spirituality ultimately comes from the same source. It is like connecting on a higher level, seeing the greater scheme of things, well, to sketch it a little bit.

By the way, what I thought was: is spirituality related to the N-function? The hallucinatory aspect of religion I think might be a 'lighting up' of N ('S-ing' N), bringing things into view that are inexplicable and that give a sense of this greater connection.

[cripple]

s/he/it
*funny*


Often, I can't find anything... at least, nothing definitive. It's frustrating, but I suppose that is the spiritual quest.
Was scared of dying when I grew up, but at some point in my mid 20's it stopped, and now I don't mind anymore. I guess I've searched for some meaning my whole life, but the more I search the less I find. So I find motivation in the small things, the things that don't matter.

I've always been anti religion. My earliest memories from church is the music I listen to while watching the expressions on the priest face.

When I was younger, the notion of ghosts and so on was intriguing. I remember I often went at night to so called hunted houses to see or try to sense them myself.

But at some time I grew bored of that.

And started reading fantasy books.

Been a year or so since I did that as well.

Now I am comfortable being just a part of the planet like everything else, like the trees and oceans or the mosquitoes. Just another set of molecules, or sub atomic particles or whatever.

I have concluded that the meaning with life is to die, when that happens I've fulfilled my part. And the best thing is that I don't have to worry about it, as my being disintegrated is the one thing that I know for sure.

[walfin]

To me this sounds a little like a contradiction, but well... I am convinced all spirituality ultimately comes from the same source. It is like connecting on a higher level, seeing the greater scheme of things, well, to sketch it a little bit.
To me a lot of this "connecting on a higher level" stuff entails doing a lot of mumbo jumbo hocus pocus. Most people claiming to be spiritual seem to like that kind of stuff.

Then again that's probably due to my biased irl sample.

[Llewellyn]

To me a lot of this "connecting on a higher level" stuff entails doing a lot of mumbo jumbo hocus pocus. Most people claiming to be spiritual seem to like that kind of stuff.

Then again that's probably due to my biased irl sample.

We should talk about what it is in its essence, not what the worldly image of it is. That way of viewing is wasting so much of things that can be beautiful.

Now a good definition...

"Spiritual matters are thus those matters regarding humankind's ultimate nature and meaning, not only as material biological organisms, but as beings with a unique relationship to that which is perceived to be beyond the bodily senses, time and the material world. Spirituality also implies the mind-body dichotomy, which indicates a separation between the body and soul."
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality)

[quantumzero]

Yes. I've had too many supernatural experiences not to be. One of those experiences was shared by my uncle, who was in a different location at the time. My uncle, the long professed athiest is now a very deeply spiritual agnostic (and mathematician). He used to sound allot like some that I have read on this very forum.
I read an article awhile ago that suggested some people are wired for spirituality and some are not. I dont know if I believe that completely. As a spiritual person Im still trying to figure out what spirituality means. My approach has always been where theres smoke theres fire. Dont know what kind of fire, could be just smoke and mirrors, depending on which avenue one takes.

[mmortal03]

The following is an interesting take on the topic of atheism and spirituality: http://www.amazon.com/Little-Book-Atheist-Spirituality/dp/0670018473

I like the French title of it more: (l'esprit de l'athéisme)

[ocop]

Nope, not spiritual.
I've always had a total lack of interest in spirituality. I gave up my religion because the rites were boring and complicated and I'm not an atheist I really don't give a damn if God exists or not.

Same here. I'm not spiritual, but I do have a deep sense of awe for our place in the universe and the fact that it has spawned (passably) intelligent life.

[bass_n_treble]

Nope, not spiritual.
I've always had a total lack of interest in spirituality. I gave up my religion because the rites were boring and complicated and I'm not an atheist I really don't give a damn if God exists or not.

Welcome to my belief system!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apatheism

Actually, I lean slightly more atheistic, because I will argue against a religious type if given the opportunity... :rant:

[Anonymous]

Even when I was a Christian, I was never very spiritual. I prayed and shit, but I never heard God talking to me or saw/felt him, or other crap like that. I always regarded stuff like speaking in tongues and faith healing to be completely retarded. And I also never liked church. I remember making some sarcastic comment about the message after mandatory chapel in Christian school, and one of my classmates got all mad at me. I was surprised, I thought surely my classmates (or at least the group I was with) of all people would see through the bullshit. I think that's when I first began to develop a healthy sense of condescension.

I've still never experienced anything which might be classified as supernatural, either.

[mmortal03]

Even when I was a Christian, I was never very spiritual. I prayed and shit, but I never heard God talking to me or saw/felt him, or other crap like that. I always regarded stuff like speaking in tongues and faith healing to be completely retarded.

Yeah, I was never into that stuff, either, but I would argue that truly believing in that stuff isn't spirituality, anyway, but "delusionality".

[kali]

i have faith that most faith is unreliable, does that cancel out or not?

when i was 9 i wrote prayers to mary and sang rap hymns about jesus (ah, the joys of catholicism), that was arguably the most blissful period of my life.

[**life is...**]

Even when I was a Christian, I was never very spiritual. I prayed and shit, but I never heard God talking to me or saw/felt him, or other crap like that. I always regarded stuff like speaking in tongues and faith healing to be completely retarded. And I also never liked church. I remember making some sarcastic comment about the message after mandatory chapel in Christian school, and one of my classmates got all mad at me. I was surprised, I thought surely my classmates (or at least the group I was with) of all people would see through the bullshit. I think that's when I first began to develop a healthy sense of condescension.

I've still never experienced anything which might be classified as supernatural, either.

I used to sit on a rock for hours, meditating and thinking about life. Then I turned 9 and people told me I was weird for doing it. Now I have absolutely no idea how people can believe in a god. Even if there was we sure wouldn't be going to heaven, it would just be another lie to control us. Make us in to sausage or some shit.

I'm spiritual in a life is a miracle sort of way.

[Llewellyn]

Nope, not spiritual.
I've always had a total lack of interest in spirituality. I gave up my religion because the rites were boring and complicated and I'm not an atheist I really don't give a damn if God exists or not.


To me a lot of this "connecting on a higher level" stuff entails doing a lot of mumbo jumbo hocus pocus. Most people claiming to be spiritual seem to like that kind of stuff.

Then again that's probably due to my biased irl sample.


If there is such a thing as a spirit then we are all spiritual, right? How can one person be more spiritual than another?

Through the experience of life we all grow, improve, evolve. I don't think making a concerted effort to be more spiritual really does what it is supposed to.

In fact, most 'spiritual' people just seem to suppress themselves to such an extent that they lose their humour and discernment. Everything and anything becomes 'amazing' because they fear being judgemental and close minded.

The posts of those saying they are not spiritual or that it doesn't make sense are focusing on the worldly interpretations/appearances of what it would entail to be spiritual.

What if spirituality = sense of the world? (Recognized paradox)

Edit (add): It's not upon you to judge what the world gives you (including concepts), but to judge what sense you can make of the world. Most are looking into it objectively, but for one sure thing it's subjective.

[quantumzero]

I think we all have a "spirit" that is comprised of pure energy and that this energy is all things and all thoughts and it connects everything. I think ancient advanced people knew more about it and documented it and it got garbled and bastardized. Allot of "holy" writtings from different parts of the world lend themselves to this idea also. All you need is a little bit of stillness and you can feel it.

[Faust06]

I can't imagine what it would mean to be "spiritual", and I wouldn't attempt to be. I seek serenity, health and personal growth and I don't consider that to be of a supernatural nature.

To my surprise, I've met a few people into that new age stuff. Or "witchcraft" or pagan, or satanic, or Ba'hai. All these labels thrown around. The way I look at it, it's a kind of traditionalism used as an excuse to bring people together, like an adhesive for friendship and community, a social lubricant if you will. It's entirely based on building bonds with others.

My attitude is that it's not any more pathetic than playing WoW or other MMORPGs as a way to communicate and collaborate with others over... nothing. The games themselves have poor gameplay immersion; it's just mindless grind. A social network disguised as a game. The key seller is the ease of socializing no matter how much of an aloof introvert you are. We underestimate our need for this kind of contact. It's just a shame we can't think of anything more substantial as a medium sometimes.

[1104]

Ti- like visually appealing food, but bland when tasted.

i think spirituality would have to have flavor.

/crackpot