Childhood

[Oculus Sinister]

Childhood issues

Investigators often have histories of grossly inadequate, cold, or neglectful early parenting. These traumatic experiences may have created an expectation that relationships would not be gratifying, precipitating a subsequent defensive withdrawal from others (Gunderson & Philips, pg. 1445).

Riso and Hudson classify Investigators as being "ambivalent towards both the nurturing figure and the protective figure", meaning that they did not identify with either role strongly. This leads to their perception of themselves as being without a role in life, and their compensatory action of finding and defending a niche; it is as if the roles of their parents filled up all the conceptual "space" in which they could contribute, leading to a fear of being overwhelmed and a desire to have something (an area of mastery) to "bring to the table".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_(Enneagram)

Was your childhood cold and were your emotional and other needs inadequate? If it wasn't like the previous question, what was it like?

[vulcan]

my childhood ruled until i hit teens and then became a shut in who played computer games all day and had terrible fights with anyone who dared talk to me.

[Rice-Tactics]

slow.

[NkedMRat]

i was actually exactly like vulcan until i was about 14. from age 1-11 i was extraverted, emotionally healthy, and i guess displaying some heavy histrionic traits. age 10 i decided that crying was bad and i never cried again (been 7 years since i even came close) age 11-14 i was inside 24 7 playing MMORPGS Lineage... lol, at age 14 i redesigned myself and became my facade... detaching to the point that I'd use myself as an experiment in a video game and never have to worry about the real me being screwed up because it was just my body like Ian was a pawn and I was in the back pulling strings. Been like that ever since.

[attila_the_hunny]

My childhood was good up until my parents divorced when I was five. Shit slinging ensued and my father used us as weapons to hurl at my mother when he could because she cheated on him. He turned out to be gay, so I don't see what the big deal is. My father is a crackhead with a penchant for abusive addicts who often abused my brother and I.
My grandmother was a control freak who wanted us to work jobs any moron could do in order to always be dependent on her. She liked the idea of us living a life of indentured servitude and played me big time during the point in time when I lived with her. She suffocated me, so I moved in with my mother and she never forgave me for it. That and the fact that I have a life completely independent of her.
It sucked, but I couldn't control my circumstances. Now that I can legally make my own decisions, my quality of life has been considerably better and since then it has been the most peaceful and best time of my life.

[vulcan]

i was actually exactly like vulcan until i was about 14. from age 1-11 i was extraverted, emotionally healthy, and i guess displaying some heavy histrionic traits. age 10 i decided that crying was bad and i never cried again (been 7 years since i even came close) age 11-14 i was inside 24 7 playing MMORPGS Lineage... lol, at age 14 i redesigned myself and became my facade... detaching to the point that I'd use myself as an experiment in a video game and never have to worry about the real me being screwed up because it was just my body like Ian was a pawn and I was in the back pulling strings. Been like that ever since.

yeah man i remember being really outgoing in elementary school and i played basketball, soccer, swim team, BMX biking for a hobby and all that. then i got into computer games. don't know what happened.

edit: what do you mean by the video game facade thing? i don't get it

[s0978]

Investigators often have histories of grossly inadequate, cold, or neglectful early parenting. These traumatic experiences may have created an expectation that relationships would not be gratifying, precipitating a subsequent defensive withdrawal from others (Gunderson & Philips, pg. 1445).


Riso and Hudson classify Investigators as being "ambivalent towards both the nurturing figure and the protective figure", meaning that they did not identify with either role strongly. This leads to their perception of themselves as being without a role in life, and their compensatory action of finding and defending a niche; it is as if the roles of their parents filled up all the conceptual "space" in which they could contribute, leading to a fear of being overwhelmed and a desire to have something (an area of mastery) to "bring to the table".

Are these two from the same source? Ask because the concept in the second para is intriguing, but doesn't seem to quite add up to "grossly inadequate," in my mind.

So interesting to me, the language of pop psychologists, and psychologists for that matter- sort of inherently objectionable, I wonder about the extent to which good discourse gets tuned out.



Moved fr MBTI.

[earwax]

Warm loving parents. No abuse. Encouraging, supportive and positive. All kids should have a childhood like mine.

[Petroleum Prole]

Decent childhood. Got along great with my dad most of the time. We shared more in the realm of ideas/interests though...
I was never really close with my mother.
My parents ended up divorcing when I was eleven, and I've been living with my mother. It's been harder to deal with her without my father there to neutralize it.
My emotional needs weren't at all tended to (partially because I wasn't open with my emotions)... but all other necessities were met, I suppose.

[Larkin]

I don't want to talk about it.

[attila_the_hunny]

I don't want to talk about it.

Then why this post? No one was addressing you personally on the matter.

[Oculus Sinister]

Warm loving parents. No abuse. Encouraging, supportive and positive. All kids should have a childhood like mine.

You are proof that the quote in the OP isn't consistent. I thought it wasn't. There is such a thing as an investigator from a good childhood.

[Niffer]

I identified more with my dad. He's easygoing. Thus, 8w9.

[monolith]

I've never been emotional, even as a child.

[Notsweetynice]

I don't want to talk about it.

Interesting.

[Spring]

Hm, I did not know that. Yeah, I went hungry a few times and was often left alone for days at a time but in the end my mother did the right thing and sent me to live with my grandparents when I was 13. I wouldn't say my mother was cold, she just had problems that inhibited her from being the best parent.

[Colonel Panic]

My mom showered me with emotional attention and my dad with intellectual things. It worked out well.

[Jennywocky]

My parents created a very tangled web (father = alcoholic in denial, mother = wife of an alcoholic with the traditional codependent behavior patterns) for our family.

Combined with my personality, these circumstances led me to great ambivalence towards them: I knew their behavior was not directed personally at me (they were just having their own issues) so I did not grow to "hate/despise them," and my mother was excellent at taking care of our family's physical needs; but there really was no way to develop a meaningful relationship with either of them and I just became very indifferent to their presence... either spending the time alone, or in silence.

Even now, when my dad has been sober for 20 months or so, I still don't have anything to say to them.

I wish I did, but I usually have nothing that I would think about calling them up to tell them, and even in person it is difficult to get into a "conversational loop" with them.

I am not sure if this came from simply setting a precedent in the past of not speaking much with each other (or not being able to), or whether it comes from feeling like I cannot address some very formative issues with them -- whether self-identity ones, or simply the alcoholism itself and its impact. My father has always avoided the topic since he became sober and has never apologized for anything, nor showed that he understood the impact of his actions.

[Lateralus]

My childhood wasn't that bad. I had overprotective parents, but other than maybe a little verbal abuse from my father, nothing you could classify as traumatic happened.

I think Larkin DOES want to talk about it. Passive aggressive? :P

[bonsai]

I guess I would describe my childhood as cold and detached. My mother is very emotionally detached, but very authoratative and controlling. I grew up with a step father from about 3 - 13. He was a very bad alchoholic, he spent most weekend nights puking in the bathroom. He was verbally and somewhat physically abusive to my mother and to me, though I don't remember him that way. They got divorced in my pre-teens and he died suddenly from a heart attack a few years later. One of the only times my mother ever poured her emotions on me was at his funeral.

I've met my real father less times than I can count on one hand, I'm not even sure where he is right now. It wouldn't be too difficult to get a hold of him, and see how's he doing or meet my baby half sister, ask him a few things like what books he likes, but I don't bother. I suppose it's just easier this way.

[Ryuko]

I'm 5w4... and I wouldn't necessarily say my childhood was 'cold or neglectful', but I did spend a good majority of it being withdrawn and not understood by most people, including my peers. The way I view MBTI and Enneagram is that MBTI is the building blocks, the functions in which we act and how we think... but Enneagram is the result. Because of the way I functioned, I was more or less pre-disposed to be the recluse that the Enneagram makes a 5 out to be...

I did have a somewhat 'traumatizing' experience when I was younger. Long story short, my aunt badmouthed my mother to my face. My aunt was a lawyer... and I was 9 years old. I argued against her, trying my best to defend my mother, but failed miserably. She told me never to tell my mother the argument happened or I'd 'never see my family again'. Having been a heavy introvert at that point, my only real 'friends' were family, so that type of punishment would have a heavy toll on me. However, I broke down eventually and told my mother. She called up my aunt, they argued, and I didn't see my family for holidays for the remainder of my childhood. Thus, I learned at a very young age that adults are human, that they too make mistakes... but most importantly, I learned the results of my actions, and why I had to think ahead. Thus, I became much more N after that experience than S. I was S before it, I think. I kind of forced myself to be P, and was forced into being T from my inability to deal with the situation... so I kind of just blocked all emotion off, and that was the result. So, after developing my functions... I developed into a 5, the quiet, observant one...

I suppose you could say my childhood was unhappy or traumatic, but not necessarily neglectful.

[Niffer]

My mother had to work shortly after I was born, so for the first 6 years of my life I was taken care of by my grandma until my parents came home from work. She's my favourite person in the world, but she's getting old now...

My mother yells at me and my father constantly and gets angry about nothing at all. Everyone she knows thinks she has a disorder. She's a perfectionist, making up little rules all the time to perfect the system of the world around her. On the other hand, she smothers me in affection when she's not busy yelling at me...it's kind of weird because my parents LOVE me so much, but really, they don't know me completely. I don't think anyone knows me completely. And that's not their fault, I mean, neither my family nor my friends can be with me 24/7, and they of course can't get into my head, so that's expected. The kind of affection my mother smothers me in is mostly superficial...kind of bothersome. And she expects it in return. I can't just smother people superficially ALL THE TIME, and she doesn't seem to realize that. She has SO MANY expectations for me, and she keeps PUSHING AND PUSHING me to be the best in everything, especially academics. The problem is, I don't want to be the best all the time. I don't want to be the best at certain things that other people really want to be the best in, because I would rather let them have the title. I have a lot of motivation to improve myself in every way at all times, but I just don't want things that badly, and I don't want to tell her that. I think she's an XSFJ. I think my father is an IXTP...as you can imagine, this creates mayhem in the house. My father goes all lazy when it comes to my mother's demands, and that infuriates her. They've considered divorce countless times, even though I know they love each other. A few years ago, my mother went into one of her rampages and kicked my dad out, and when he came back he threatened to kill her. The only thing that stopped him was me telling him that she was sorry. Sometimes, I feel like I'm the only one that can keep people together, make decisions, and figure things out in the house.

I dunno..I wouldn't have it any other way though. Life would be boring otherwise.

[Shipper]

I was a thriving extrovert in my early childhood. I entered the Gifted and Talented Education program in grade three, and became a full-time student in grade four. Here I felt sheltered and nurtured, where there were many children similar to I, until grade six. Upon entering junior high school, I felt alienated and nearly worthless amongst the other children, and the problem was compounded by the fact that I was separated from nearly all the friends I had made in the GATE program. Feeling alone and at times helpless, I turned to introversion, and my interests shifted to philosophy and compulsive video gaming. I have been the same way ever since.

[shum]

abc.

you are a feeler.

its ok to be a feeler.

hope you are ok.

[Screendoor]

They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another's throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don't have any kids yourself.

[Steve]

My father was very cold and detached, and I still don't feel like I know him that well. Spent most of his time working on computers. My mother on the other hand was very emotional and showered me with attention. I was a fairly normal kid and got along with everyone (though I read a lot and wasn't into sports etc.), but when I hit my early teens I became very shy and retreated into video games and anime. :ph34r:

College and alcohol got me out of that rut. (for the most part)

[Oculus Sinister]

abc.

you are a feeler.

its ok to be a feeler.

hope you are ok.


i will never be ok. maybe you are right. thank you shum. you are always a fun person. fuck parents, fuck family. the blood line ends with me.

[Katzchen]

I don't think my parents really induced much of my withdrawn or relationship-averse nature. I think the biggest impact on my personality came when I was seven years old and my family moved. Prior to the move I was fairly extraverted, somewhat of a goody-two-shoes and a teacher's pet, but not a nerd. Even back then though I got very sensitive and shy sometimes, and I had quite a few problems with nightmares and night terrors.

Anyway, after we moved I got much more introverted. Like, suddenly I was terrified to speak in public, or sometimes even answer questions in class. The strangest thing was how I developed a serious crying problem, like every time I had to give an oral report. (It drove my teachers nuts.)

I think as I grew up though I sort of "overloaded" on all those emotions and irrational fears and became the opposite as a result. It was like I tried one way, realized it didn't work, and changed.
I'm kind of glad looking back on it though, even it was a rough point and not a flattering picture of me. It was actually a really useful learning experience.

[silady79]

My childhood was never stable. I seemed to move between my parents and uncle and aunt every few years, plus I was extremely shy which I think is directly related to the uproot every few years. I was loved by all my family, but things were complicated and I felt misunderstood by people. I felt awkward. I've learned from childhood and how it's made me stronger in spite of all the obstacles

[mjk4219]

I can't even have a basic conversation with my dad. My mom is more like me, but that includes the inability to open up. My parents are loving, and I know they try. I'm more cold and distant towards them than they are to me.

[apple]

To point out the obvious, I think parents determine what sort of personality traits you will develop. For example, I grew up with an ISTJ father and he has influenced me in the way I exhibit my INFP traits. Likewise, an ISTJ man might become more in tuned with NF tendencies if he were raised by an INFJ mother.

I think when assessing personality, it's always important to see the bigger picture and also integrate how one was raised, and pay attention to the parent who was influential in one's emotional, psychological and intellectual development.

[Meticulum]

I had a completely normal, healthy childhood. Well, if you don't count all of the beatings and the sodomy. . .



John

[Oculus Sinister]

I had a completely normal, healthy childhood. Well, if you don't count all of the beatings and the sodomy. . .



John

You are too funny. I mean that. Thank you.

[LuridLemur]

I was smothered with lurve.

[Bradtv]

When I was born, my mother had issues with her Gal Bladder and stayed in the hospital several weeks after me. I was taken care of by both sets of Grandparents (one during the day, other at night).

Two weeks before I turned 1 year old, a brother was born (I'm the middle of five). Just as I was learning to structure my words, attention was drawn to the coos of the "baby". I would have to repeat myself because no one was listening to me (a bit of stuttering) and I just learned to be quiet. I figured if no one was listening, why bother?

I never asked for assistance. My older brother and sister would usually need help from the parents to help with school work, so I didn't bother. I learned by observation (such as cooking) and reading. If we were in the car, I would sit in the back (too far to be included in conversation) listening to the radio, watching the scenery, or reading a book. Dad didn't teach me much.

I was very in tune with my right brain. I could draw fairly well up until my scheduling required me to pay attention to the calendar and clock. I figure that's when the left brain took dominance.

I don't remember much of childhood.

[Ferrus]

My childhood was stable but I never really cohered with either my family or any of the school enviroments till I chalked out a space as the eccentric one late on.

[MikeD277]

really normal childhood. played a few sports, had a few friends, did most typical kid/teen stuff. no big trauma, all needs were met, etc. still talk to the parents and on good terms.

my istj older brother tho one day i guess decided all the troubles in his life were caused by my parents and started to hate them. /shrug. we had pretty much the same upbringing (1.5 years apart), no real difference. if anything he was slightly favored. i think him and my parents are talking nowadays but thats recent and took a number of years to bury whatever hatchets they had.

i will say one thing tho, i wish my parents were more N. growing up it felt like i was being taught how to be someone else. there was no kindred spirit type of thing going on which was fine, but i think having that w/ at least one parent would have been kinda cool. i had to learn how to be me mostly on my own or by reading about other likeminded individuals. whenever i think about what i'd do w/ kids if i ever had any is all the cool stuff i've picked up over the years i'd be able to teach them.

anyways, yeah.

[Katzchen]

my istj older brother tho one day i guess decided all the troubles in his life were caused by my parents and started to hate them. /shrug.

I knew an istj who did that. I wonder if it's a type thing?

[silady79]

I was smothered with lurve.

you pawr thing. I feel for ya man.

[Niffer]

my istj older brother tho one day i guess decided all the troubles in his life were caused by my parents and started to hate them.


I have an ISTJ friend that decided all of her problems were caused by *my* parents. My mother in particular.

[Anonymous]

My childhood was good until- oh wait, it was never good. Extreme fundamentalist Christians as parents (ISTJ father and xSFP mother) don't tend to make experiencing life easy, especially when you're an INTP.

[pardo]

My parents pretty much hated each other, I can't remember seeing between them a single act or word of love or simple affection. They painfully argued every time they _had to_ interact (otherwise they would ignore each other as much as possible).
I will always wonder how the hell they came to a marriage.
As a child I was constantly caught in their crossfire, but it was more like a cold war, never ending tension and exchange of threats, with a few real clashes. It would have been MUCH better if they jumped at one's throat and divorced once and for all.
They were both weak personalities but my father in particular was (is) seriously broken, with huge self esteem / inferiority complex issues lying beneath his carapace, painful things that he never worked out as is evident from his behaviour when certain buttons are pushed. He actually attempted suicide a couple times, and for a while he was in therapy for some sort of nervous breakdown. I was and still I am terrified of turning out like him.
To finish the picture, they never had any friends, both of them.

I don't know how much of my fucked up mind is 'native' and how much was caused by the sick family environment where I grew up. My current girlfriend knows nothing of this, but my background constantly worries me, I can't stop thinking about it and I know that one day I'll have to tell her, because I don't know if or how long I'm capable to keep it all at bay, the pain, the chaos, the fear... I've spent years fighting the ghosts in my mind, it never ends.

[Karl]

I wrote a lot and then decided I wasn't comfortable posting it. Here's this:

I had issues. I was in and out of the psych ward for a while. A lot of the time I feel like I'm in the middle of my parents arguing. They divorced at an age where I can't remember them being married. The only thing I have from back then is the clear memory of when my father permanently left and me asking him not to leave. Well, there's another, where they're still married, and I tell them to stop arguing even though I don't understand any of it and they ignore me.

My parents have done a lot of good things for me. I can't deny that. For instance, my mother kept me out of the stupid classes in elementary school. They thought I should be because I'm not good at writing. (I can type faster than many professional workers though; it's the one thing I'm good at) My father was very instrumental in getting me sent to the psych ward less. But they're both hard to live with and they both do things that make me depressed. I thought I had a good childhood, but recently it seems like I was remembering a sharp minority of what happened to convince myself that it wasn't really so bad, really everything seems to have at least a tinge of the negative in it...

I've decided they're Good Parents though. Because what good does thinking anything else do? Of course that doesn't mean I have to have close connections with them forever or after I go to college.

[Ellipsis]

MY parents where a little overprotective....and well I got the belt whenever I did something not to their standreds(something as simmple as not doing my homework did it)...that is probably the worest thing...but I don't fully blame them for that...it was the soceity they where raised in but it ended up not fitting with this soceity and me...in the end I leearned to tolerate the pain....eventually when I got old enough I did something crazy....I smiled and retorted...I must have seemed crazy...probably was....anyway that scared me a bit my own actions.... anyway my parents stoped using the belt after that and thats it....

As for my childhood other then that fact it was good, very good...I was extroverted...drew kids around me like a magnet (they loved my stories and imgination..)...accepted everyone got along well with most people(thats what got me into troble and the normal people ended up shunning me in elementary and Jr.high) but outside of school I had some good friends and was very happy...then when I got into my mid-teens....I became much more introverted outside of school...highschool saw the best years I spent in school.....but still very introverted....

[Karl]

I was incredibly offended when I was spanked. If I could have expressed myself I would have said "Why do violate me like that? Do you have no respect for me and my space?"

I have no idea what being belted would have done to me.

[Utopmk]

Childhood issues

Investigators often have histories of grossly inadequate, cold, or neglectful early parenting. These traumatic experiences may have created an expectation that relationships would not be gratifying, precipitating a subsequent defensive withdrawal from others (Gunderson & Philips, pg. 1445).

Riso and Hudson classify Investigators as being "ambivalent towards both the nurturing figure and the protective figure", meaning that they did not identify with either role strongly. This leads to their perception of themselves as being without a role in life, and their compensatory action of finding and defending a niche; it is as if the roles of their parents filled up all the conceptual "space" in which they could contribute, leading to a fear of being overwhelmed and a desire to have something (an area of mastery) to "bring to the table".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_(Enneagram)

Was your childhood cold and were your emotional and other needs inadequate? If it wasn't like the previous question, what was it like?

I've heard stories of being as young as a few months old and being thrown around the room, and yelled at in my face. I don't remember much of that, but... In alot of high intensity arguments I black out, as in complete loss of all control and thought. It doesn't last for very long.. usually 10-20 seconds. I try to warn people about this, that if you get in my face and yell or do anything else that makes me feel vunerable to violence, that bad things can happen.

Of course, there are alot who think I am just trying to intimidate them by saying that... Or they try to test it. :gm: ... but no :banghead:

Anyway, I do think alot of the things that happened to me in my mid childhood resulted in my personality being this way.

I was actually a very outgoing, talkative, curious kid with a joy for living at one point.

It's just that when I got to school, I had no idea that they'd be so hateful. Despite what my mother may or may not have done when I was a baby, until about age 5 she was very nurturing and over protective... which in a way. I think, was another form of abuse, because I was cut off all at once... and with no defense, I imploded into this.

I am very sure that it's not just genetics at work. External condtioning plays a HUGE part of who you are.

[Fictionarium]

My early childhood was full of moving around, but parental support was good and everything. I kind of became much more introspective once I started the first years of school. I think the school system is what has affected me negatively the most in my life, along with some of my peers o.o'' I had a difficult time with my grandparents' deaths and parents fighting a lot, but other than that, it was ok. :P