Out of place?

[misutii]

Greetings to my fellow "INTP"s. So this is my predicament, am i out of place even here? (not to be interpreted in a negative sense) I have never - ever - fit into a social group/subculture. Whenever i chill with friends it is done so individually, i find groups are predictable and shallow. my friends come from opposite spectrums in terms of "subculture" and therefore i tend to avoid having my friends meet eachother (for example, in highschool my 'jock' friend did not look highly upon my 'punk' friend so to speak and vice versa. Has anyone else noticed similar things in their friendships?

in terms of me, i am a 20 year-old male attending my third year of university (taking joint History/Classical studies). Despite what INTP profiles say i have no interest in math or science (academically). I find that having only one possible answer for a question is too restricting. I prefer essays and am a solitary/verbal learner.

Personality-wise i am (oh here comes a list) sarcastic, cynical, pessimistic, mysterious, secretive, pensive........ etc. The only way I can describe my thinking is as Subjectively Objective. I seem to score near a J often, but i find that is merely because i am generally a tidy person. On the other hand I am indecisive, prone to procrastination, often daydreaming and unable to maintain any type of routine (even sleeping/eating).

In regards to image i find that there is perhaps no personality type that suits me. I am type 4, however, my 'wing' is arguable between 3 and 5. I see validity in 3 for i am very self-conscious of my image and how i portray myself. My favourite traits in people, and ones that i aspire to, are elegance and etiquette. I dress semi-formally most often rather than casual (i have no jeans) and have a strange sort of arrogance and pride. When i think of myself i'll often feel pathetic, however, my view of humanity is even more negative (bread and circus to satisfy the mob is what the elites said 2000 years ago and it still holds true today). Indeed my specialty in History is on the aristocracy of 18th century france, i find the flamboyance and decadence of the era to be cynically charming. I have no interest in the new school of 'social history' and have no care for the peasants in that era - indeed i find learning about the uneducated and uncouth to be a bore. This frame of mind has led me to expect a general etiquette from the general population, and when individuals fail to express this (by burping in front of me for example) i see them in a less attractive light (not in a judgmental sense, my best friend does this around me, and often pokes fun at my 'standards' and he will always be my best friend)

In terms of religion i want to be athiest, but a lack of evidence forces me into half-hearted agnosticism. As a student of history, however, i see through organized religion and often find myself irritated by the ignorance of the masses (i naturally think, rather than act). I see false-securites (like religion, idealism) as no better than a drug addiction. My view of the earth is very objective (like an alien visiting the planet for the first time). In organized religion i see evolutionized apes entering buildings in order to be indoctrinated to believe that they're something more. In terms of humanity I see the vast majority of the earth's population exploited by a small elite (1st world countries), however, i see no problem with this. It is either we all be equal and poor or most be poor and a few prosper for there is limited resources.

On any other board i would apologize for being so long-winded but i feel more assured the residents here will understand... And so to conclude, does anyone here hold similar views as me? And more important, do you have a very individualistic long-winded view that you yourself would like to share? if so than it would be my utmost pleasure to read and if you wish comment on it! Despite coming off as arrogant to strangers i am very down to earth to those i get to know.

[Six]

Whenever i chill with friends it is done so individually, i find groups are predictable and shallow. my friends come from opposite spectrums in terms of "subculture" and therefore i tend to avoid having my friends meet eachother (for example, in highschool my 'jock' friend did not look highly upon my 'punk' friend so to speak and vice versa. Has anyone else noticed similar things in their friendships?
Welcome :hello:

yeah...I'm pretty much like that. and as I'm not into really celebrating my birthday most of my friends have never met.

but meanwhile I'm thinking about changing that... they have at least one thing in common... me... which is something ;)

maybe for my 30th birthday... a surprise-present to myself as it could turn out fun or a total disaster.

[mgb]

Hello and welcome.

What are you going to do after school. And I also don't know how a lack of evidence led you back to agnosticism.

[Clara]

Welcome, misutii.

Is that London, Ontario?

[misutii]

Welcome, misutii.

Is that London, Ontario?

hi, yes i attend university here.

To mgbradsh; following my undergraduate degree i will go for a masters in history, and then decide whether i am to be an avaricious asshole (in other words attend law school for i can get a job in this field easily, connections) or continue for my phd and achieve my true goal of becoming an historical museum curator (with a job as a professor providing a suitable fall back considering that by that time history professors will be in short supply)

in all honesty i switch between athiest and agnostic, i don't believe in a 'god' in a conventional sense, but maybe of a driving force in the universe that we are yet to understand --> but most importantly *could* be understood. It's perhaps a false security in itself and hypocritical considering my notions, however, i don't see a reason for a definite answer at the moment

[jgreensp]

Welcome! I am very much like you and don't live too far either. Are you at the University of Western Ontario? I am at York University at the Schulich School of Business. I can tell you that if you indeed choose to attend a business or law school you will become oven more cynical like me and perhaps even hate humanity more:). A also don't like math or anything else with one answer. Anyways, nice meeting you.

[misutii]

Welcome! I am very much like you and don't live too far either. Are you at the University of Western Ontario? I am at York University at the Schulich School of Business. I can tell you that if you indeed choose to attend a business or law school you will become oven more cynical like me and perhaps even hate humanity more:). A also don't like math or anything else with one answer. Anyways, nice meeting you.

i'm honoured to make your aquaintence and yes i do attend Western. i hate these decisions... it's like the materialistic part of me obsessed with self-image is pushing me towards law for the money, but then some idealistic part of my brain interested only in happiness is there to tug me back and push me towards an academic career......... and the cycle never ends........ decisions decisions. Considering my current level of pessimism/cynicism i find it hard to imagine being more negative towards humanity...... an ivory tower with velvet couches and limitless cigarettes would be ideal.

[bmw318tiChic]

Greetings to my fellow "INTP"s. So this is my predicament, am i out of place even here? (not to be interpreted in a negative sense) I have never - ever - fit into a social group/subculture. Whenever i chill with friends it is done so individually, i find groups are predictable and shallow. my friends come from opposite spectrums in terms of "subculture" and therefore i tend to avoid having my friends meet eachother (for example, in highschool my 'jock' friend did not look highly upon my 'punk' friend so to speak and vice versa. Has anyone else noticed similar things in their friendships?

Welcome. I am very similar to you. It has always been difficult for me to feel comfortable around people because I feel that I have never really fit in. I am the same way with friendships. I have more aquaintances than friends, but they are on opposite ends of the spectrum, so I would feel sort of weird having them meet each other.

[Geoff]

Interesting.

And do you find the friends fulfill different needs?

For me I have friends who are very 'E' who I enjoy the company of because I let them wash over me in their trivial happy exterior (a fun lunch date).

And close INTP style friends who I can chew over the meaning of the universe (42, surely) in the early hours after a few beers...

-Geoff

[kuranes]

Greetings to my fellow "INTP"s. So this is my predicament, am i out of place even here? (not to be interpreted in a negative sense) I have never - ever - fit into a social group/subculture. Whenever i chill with friends it is done so individually, i find groups are predictable and shallow. my friends come from opposite spectrums in terms of "subculture" and therefore i tend to avoid having my friends meet eachother (for example, in highschool my 'jock' friend did not look highly upon my 'punk' friend so to speak and vice versa. Has anyone else noticed similar things in their friendships?

in terms of me, i am a 20 year-old male attending my third year of university (taking joint History/Classical studies). Despite what INTP profiles say i have no interest in math or science (academically). I find that having only one possible answer for a question is too restricting. I prefer essays and am a solitary/verbal learner.

Personality-wise i am (oh here comes a list) sarcastic, cynical, pessimistic, mysterious, secretive, pensive........ etc. The only way I can describe my thinking is as Subjectively Objective. I seem to score near a J often, but i find that is merely because i am generally a tidy person. On the other hand I am indecisive, prone to procrastination, often daydreaming and unable to maintain any type of routine (even sleeping/eating).

In regards to image i find that there is perhaps no personality type that suits me. I am type 4, however, my 'wing' is arguable between 3 and 5. I see validity in 3 for i am very self-conscious of my image and how i portray myself. My favourite traits in people, and ones that i aspire to, are elegance and etiquette. I dress semi-formally most often rather than casual (i have no jeans) and have a strange sort of arrogance and pride. When i think of myself i'll often feel pathetic, however, my view of humanity is even more negative (bread and circus to satisfy the mob is what the elites said 2000 years ago and it still holds true today). Indeed my specialty in History is on the aristocracy of 18th century france, i find the flamboyance and decadence of the era to be cynically charming. I have no interest in the new school of 'social history' and have no care for the peasants in that era - indeed i find learning about the uneducated and uncouth to be a bore. This frame of mind has led me to expect a general etiquette from the general population, and when individuals fail to express this (by burping in front of me for example) i see them in a less attractive light (not in a judgmental sense, my best friend does this around me, and often pokes fun at my 'standards' and he will always be my best friend)

In terms of religion i want to be athiest, but a lack of evidence forces me into half-hearted agnosticism. As a student of history, however, i see through organized religion and often find myself irritated by the ignorance of the masses (i naturally think, rather than act). I see false-securites (like religion, idealism) as no better than a drug addiction. My view of the earth is very objective (like an alien visiting the planet for the first time). In organized religion i see evolutionized apes entering buildings in order to be indoctrinated to believe that they're something more. In terms of humanity I see the vast majority of the earth's population exploited by a small elite (1st world countries), however, i see no problem with this. It is either we all be equal and poor or most be poor and a few prosper for there is limited resources.

On any other board i would apologize for being so long-winded but i feel more assured the residents here will understand... And so to conclude, does anyone here hold similar views as me? And more important, do you have a very individualistic long-winded view that you yourself would like to share? if so than it would be my utmost pleasure to read and if you wish comment on it! Despite coming off as arrogant to strangers i am very down to earth to those i get to know.

I'm similar in many ways. Very different in some.

I am extremely INformal, for example, in contrast to you. I especially detest having to wear a tie. I, too, see through most organized religion. Some of it is sincere but misguided. Some INsincere at its core. Other religous ponderings the jury is still out on. Yet my early ( high school era ) aptitude tests indicated that I should be a preacher! Mysticism, if i can use that word, is more interesting to me than "organized religion." There are certain philosophies and conjectures that also lean into this camp. In these I might be MORE interested than your average John Q. Public, at least during my college days. I felt a sort of poetic agreement with some forms of Buddhism and Taoism, but I haven't done much with either in years.

I completely agree about having friends who wouldn't get along. I've thrown very few parties, although I once aspired to Voltaire-style "conversational salons", as Utne Reader calls them. I assumed that these parties would be people like US talking and networking. Never happened. I'm mostly a loner these days.

I am considered verbose by most. My nickname in one office was "windy." I thought that things would be different on the INTP forum, but I believe i am still considered verbose, even here.

I have extremely limited talents in Math.

Certain moments of History are interesting to me, but usually no more than moments of high quality fiction are. Concepts can be just as intriguing as events, be they past or present.

I guess you could say that I'm someone who ran with the "be prepared" motto far further than most. I'm constantly wondering what my response should be in hypothetical situations. I like to save things, in both my mind, and physically, that i might want to use later. But the retrieval mechanism for all of this has not been worked out very thoroughly. So I question myself on the practicality of continuing to do things as I have done them so far. I was pleased to recently see that cerrtain personality types tend to do these same things, which is what led me here. I feel less "guilty" knowing I'm "wired" this way, which has advantages and disadvantages, like everything. Still, I can't just relax and continue to "be me". I need to fine tune it . . . . . .

[misutii]

To Geoff: yes i find my friends fulfill very different needs. i use some to better feel part of the world (fit in, go to parties) and some to better escape. Because i'm cynical i naturally expect little from people except in the role they've come to play, therefore depending on my friend i will adapt my vocabulary etc. (chamelion affect, but still individualized).

To kuranes: if you are verbose than i have not noticed for i'm most likely verbose myself. In terms of formality i don't like wearing a formal suit but have a style between casual and formal but stylized (so i look too dressed up to be sitting at home but not formal enough to attend a 'formal' dinner or whatever... As for history i admittedly use it as an escape to fantastical eras long past (i have no interest in modern history).

As a final note i was skeptical at first about posting here because my first impression of the forum was that there were many 'scientific (as in, the type that would take science, engineering in school) people.' I'm happy to find diversity as i have always been a manipulator of words rather than numbers. and Kuranes, Voltaire-style coversational salons sounds absolutely ravishing!

[Six]

i hate these decisions... it's like the materialistic part of me obsessed with self-image is pushing me towards law for the money, but then some idealistic part of my brain interested only in happiness is there to tug me back and push me towards an academic career......... and the cycle never ends........ decisions decisions.
haven't solved that one for myself. don't know if I ever will.
why is it that this dilemma seems so... exclusively... that I can't I have both?????
or is it that you can have both on the terms of having to compromise so you get a little of each, but not enough.
I don't like compromises anyway...

so... if anybody has overcome this already...hints are appreciated ;)

[misutii]

haven't solved that one for myself. don't know if I ever will.
why is it that this dilemma seems so... exclusively... that I can't I have both?????
or is it that you can have both on the terms of having to compromise so you get a little of each, but not enough.
I don't like compromises anyway...

so... if anybody has overcome this already...hints are appreciated ;)


marrying into a wealthy family is an option i guess...

[Six]

marrying into a wealthy family is an option i guess...
yay. please send your immediate application to Susi Sorglos...

http://www.intpcentral.com/uploads/lady.gif

[Geoff]

Ahh, are you really a Susi then?

-Geoff

[Claverhouse]

I'm similar to kuranes in many ways, and different in some...

Certainly relating to anyone who loathes the concept of ties, and limited math...

But I love history and hate buddhism...



Welcome misutii


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Six]

Ahh, are you really a Susi then?

-Geoff
as sure as I'm the sister of Carrie Carefree who is even blonder than I am :whistle:

[Geoff]

Ok, Now I am definitely confused (hey, it isnt difficult). Is that really you, or a reference to some other person fictional or otherwise of whom I know not!

-Geoff

[Arioch]

Hmmm... interesting. I have the idea that if one would put INTP's into various subsections then we might be neighbouring ones.

This might merit further interest

[L. Bartholomew]

Hello misutii. I too am a student of history, in more of a metaphorical sense i suppose, but fascinated nonetheless. Nice to meet you.

[Six]

Ok, Now I am definitely confused (hey, it isnt difficult). Is that really you, or a reference to some other person fictional or otherwise of whom I know not!

-Geoffnah... no need to be confused...cross-cultural ironic joke which obviously didn't work

my name is not Susi http://intpcentral.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif
"sorglos" is the German word for "carefree"
Susi Sorglos is no real fictional (?!), I mean... no already invented, down-on-paper-or-TV kind of fictional person... in English her name would definitely be "Carrie Careless"
she is just the average blondish, always happy, giggling ESFJ-girl next door. who wouldn't mind marrying a big, handsome, rich provider if that meant spending the rest of her disgustingly perfect little life hanging at the gym or the mall or wherever
looks and acts like http://www.intpcentral.com/uploads/lady.gif
everybody knows her or got one...
now... I wouldn't say that I'd rather hang myself from the next tree but this scenario and me.... never... much to independent http://intpcentral.com/forums/images/smilies/wacko.gif

[Geoff]

My humblest apologies for making you explain a witticism that I have too poor an education to understand. I only studied French and Latin at school, no German at all! (which is shameful, I know). I'm not much on languages other than my own.

I'll just think of you as Susi Six from now on - Or Susi Sechs, maybe ;) -which is my attempt at cross cultural ironic word play ;)

Let me know it works!

-Geoff

[Six]

can't help myself...

[smoky voice]

you can call me everything, honey

[/smoky voice]
happppy

[Geoff]

Oh, haha ;)

Smoky voice eh. You should give up the cigars!

;P

-Geoff