Apparently neglected theory

[Jkrs]

Dabrowskis' theory of positive disintegration (http://www-star.qmw.ac.uk/~rmh/gdabrowski.html) reminded me of what some people mentioned on the old forums' depression thread, and that I've noticed personally: becoming someone new can involve transition through an unhealthy mental state.

The original work was apparently in Polish, which rather limited its reach.

[paladinoflunaria]

Anyone want to make another depression thread? Very good concept to talk about.

[Claverhouse]

I'm too depressed.

:D


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Johnny]

I don't know, it's still tough for me to see a significant difference between "finding yourself", "becoming somone new", "being reborn", and so on. When I read of notions that becoming somone else is psychologically damaging and that the goal is really to find yourself, it comes across as a sales-pitch to me.

No offense to Jung. I'm still working through his ideas and have a lot to learn before I allow my interest to wane, but "keep on living" still seems the best one from a long-term results oriented (and perhaps skeptical) perspective.

[antireconciler]

Why is it that some people get stuck in certain phases of development to remain there for years or even decades where others continue on through hard times to grow? Don't we all know people who seem to be in a permanent protectionist-like state? What causes this? It fascinates me.

[Johnny]

It's funny how studying Jung, especially with respect to intuition, makes it easy to find somebody like Joseph Campbell. I think Joseph Campbell blames our culture for one's "stunted growth", that there are now too few social mechanisms in place for such development to be anything but exceptional. (JC is specifically interested in spiritual movement and mythology's roadmap, but this is close enough to what I'm inferring from the last post to help me in offer something)

I embrace the notion that we are all unique and the journey we take is our own regardless. Working with my personal development model of choice (with a few tweaks, of course) because it helps me to achieve the results I want, and asserting it to be the personal development model for all people, is not something I am comfortable claiming is one and the same.

[Jkrs]

Why is it that some people get stuck in certain phases of development to remain there for years or even decades where others continue on through hard times to grow?

Perhaps they get stuck in some kind of a self-confirming worldview, that's resistant to any changes?

[Odyssey]

(Re: antireconciler)

Maybe it's a perceived need to change.

When I know I need to change (like develop some new thought habit) in order to get what I want, I tend to grow in leaps. Specific examples are development of Feeling so I could get along with people well; that sparked at about age 13 when I first learned about Jungian psychology and the Thinking/Feeling difference. [By my parents' stories, and my own memory, I was definitely a Thinker as a child.] Another example is learning to organize my time; I really realized the importance of this about half a year ago, and thus gravitated daily to people and authors that were exceptional at this. I felt daily motivated to learn from them. But, when I don't perceive a need to change, why bother?

~Odyssey

[Odyssey]

Oh, and as for the unhealthy transition state: what's the definition of "becoming someone new"? Might you be suggesting that the more "new" you try to become, the greater the unhealthiness and length of the transition state?

~Odyssey

[Johnny]

Well, if you're referring to my post, I really meant to say that I both support personal development - intellectually, spiritually, socially, physically, musically(a favorite of mine, had to throw it in) - and I see more than one way to express such a thing.

Do I mean becoming someone new is about erasing yourself and filling the void with something completely different? Not really. I mean finding out who you are, or at least how you see yourself, and taking off from there in some direction. Do I mean to claim that Jung is full of it? Not at all.

[Jkrs]

Oh, and as for the unhealthy transition state: what's the definition of "becoming someone new"?

I've been defining it as shifting perspective and modes of thought enough that returning to the previous pattern is difficult/acutely uncomfortable/outright impossible.
(Also as distinct from the slight difference in states of someone who woke up hungry, then ate a large slice of chocolate cake. Or someone who was having a rather dull day, then read something that cheered them up. They could go back to the previous state if they cared to.)



Might you be suggesting that the more "new" you try to become, the greater the unhealthiness and length of the transition state?
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but what I seem to have been seeing is attempts to find a setup that works, rather than trying to become any specific idea of a person. If some part of that setup isn't working properly with the rest, it either has to be removed, or it or some other piece will be damaged by the improper fit.
It does make sense though that the more of a system one tears down, the longer it will take or the more intense the unhealthiness (as an indicator of change), or both.

[antireconciler]

Might you be suggesting that the more "new" you try to become, the greater the unhealthiness and length of the transition state?

I find increasingly devistating periods of transition associated with increasingly significant drops in the barriers I protect myself with. When I finally let myself examine some aspect of myself I'd been subconsciously protecting for stability reasons, it's a disintigrating process trying to integrate it with the other stuff I've come to let myself see. It needs to me modified over and over and over for this to happen, and it's evolution is basically survival of the fittest, very much like Jkrs was saying. As the new section reaches a mature, integrated state, the stability of the system allows for greater resources to be devoted to inward looking, and wham! some barrier collapses and it happens all over again. It's cycles within cycles, probably within an even greater cycle. Many such treads exist at once in different states forever reweaving who I am. I can choose as much instability as I desire by changing how diligently I search myself, but this is at the mercy of environmental constraints. It's all very spontaneous.