Socionics on the vaunted INTP/INFJ pairing

[ekolmus]

This isn't good news, boys and girls.

Here's what socionics.com (http://www.socionics.com/rel/bn.htm) had to say on the subject (Benefactor and Beneficiary replaced by INTP and INFJ, for clarity):


Relations of benefit are asymmetrical. The INTP is always in a more favourable position in respect to the INFJ.

The INFJ thinks of the INTP as an interesting and meaningful person, usually over-evaluating them in the beginning. The INFJ can be impressed and delighted by their partner's behaviour, manners, thoughts and their ability to easily deal with things that the INFJ conceives as complicated. When partners are together, the INFJ involuntarily starts to ingratiate themselves with the INTP, trying to please them without any obvious reason. In the worst cases this starts from little things and then becomes bigger until the INFJ realises the foolishness of their situation.

The INFJ can see the weakness of the INTP, wishing to help their partner to strengthen themselves. Because the strongest point of the INFJ is the weak and unconscious point of the INTP, the INFJ is convinced that they are able to help. However, when the INFJ tries to help, the INTP usually refuses the help without any good explanation. The INFJ usually listens to every word the INTP says but there is no feedback, the INTP can not hear the INFJ. This may be sometimes unpleasant and even irritating for the INFJ.

The INTP accepts the INFJ as somebody who is lower in rank or social position and often undervalues them in the beginning. The reason for this is that the INTP feels that the INFJ needs something from them, that special something that only the INTP can provide. Therefore the INTP naturally finds themselves in an advanced position in respect to the INFJ, but are at the same time willing to encourage and take care of the INFJ.

Relations of Benefit may appear even and conflict free. Usually it is the INTP who initiates the contact. Partners can even feel some kind of spiritual connection between them. However, relations last only as long as the INTP has something to give and the INFJ has need of it. If this major condition is no longer fulfilled, relations enter quite an unpleasant stage of their development. The INFJ may begin ignoring the INTP completely or they may start to accentuate too many of the INTPs inabilities, provoking arguments and quarrels. Finally, when the INTP is in a superior position to the INFJ, it can work quite well, but not when it is the other way round!

Thoughts, anyone?

[stopharian]

The Soviet Union collapsed 14 years ago now.

[ekolmus]

The Soviet Union collapsed 14 years ago now.

:stupid: Silly me for not being sufficiently precise. :lol:

[Rhu]

Thoughts, anyone?
This assumes a sort of immaturity in the INTP that may or may not be overcome.

Certainly there are living examples of the relationship where the INTP (male, usually) seems to need to look down on their partner (not always an INFJ) as some sort of inferior, but any implication that this pattern is limited to INTPs or that this absolutely must be the case in an INTP-INFJ, or any type-dependent pairing is borderline retarded.

[Sokkorobo]

In Soviet Russia INTP don't need you. You need INTP.

[squirrel]

The INTP accepts the INFJ as somebody who is lower in rank or social position and often undervalues them in the beginning. The reason for this is that the INTP feels that the INFJ needs something from them, that special something that only the INTP can provide. Therefore the INTP naturally finds themselves in an advanced position in respect to the INFJ, but are at the same time willing to encourage and take care of the INFJ.

I could recognize everything else in myself up to here... for me it's more a matter of wondering what makes my INFJ attracted to me in the first place... :p

[cafe]

I don't know how it works for other INTP/INFJ couples, but looking over the type descriptions a little better, I came to the conclusion that my partner is a Socionics INTj and I am a Socionics INFj. This makes us Look-a-like Relations instead of Relations of Benefit.


These are relations between equal partners which can be called acquaintances rather than friends. There are no visual obstacles in the development of these relations, partners can talk easily almost about anything. Look-a-like partners do not feel any danger from the other partner. The strong sides of the partners are different in the such a way that almost any conversations between them always fall into the area of the confidence of only one of the partners. Look-a-like partners also have similar problems which makes them feel rather sympathetic towards each other instead of being critical of each other's vulnerabilities.

Understanding between partners is usually good. Collaboration between them may be very fruitful especially if partners feel a mutual attraction. When partners loose their feeling of sympathy for each other through anger or any other reason, they can apply pressure to their partner's vulnerabilities. This can sometimes be really unexpected and unpleasant for both partners.

Arguments in Look-a-like relations are not common practice. The partners usually try to help each other, or at least feel when their partner requires some form of assistance. However, in many cases the help is not effective enough because partners have similar problems. Look-a-like relations have an average degree of comfort. Partners do not have anything against each other but also nothing for which to struggle. These relations can normally bring a feeling of satisfaction from interaction with an equal and not boring partner.
We are friends, however. We like and enjoy each other a lot and really are very connected, but we both kind of do our own thing and allow one another a certain level of privacy of thought and feeling, if that makes sense.

[Katzchen]

On the contrary I know an INFJ who finds the need to try to take control more often than not. In any case, "ingratiating" is not the word I'd use to describe his behavior towards me.

That being said, I'd say the last part of the last paragraph is very accurate.

[ekolmus]

This assumes a sort of immaturity in the INTP that may or may not be overcome.

Certainly there are living examples of the relationship where the INTP (male, usually) seems to need to look down on their partner (not always an INFJ) as some sort of inferior, but any implication that this pattern is limited to INTPs or that this absolutely must be the case in an INTP-INFJ, or any type-dependent pairing is borderline retarded.

This pattern is not limited to INTPs. It is the description of the relation of benefit, as described on socionics.com. I agree that holding up something like this as the be-all and end-all of a relationship is horse puckey, but I still found it intriguing because I definitely saw a lot of myself in the INFJ parts of the description.

[hoodrich84]

aww man that sucks

[ataronchronon]

The OP has it backwards, swap all instances of INTP with INFJ and vice versa. INFJs are the benefactors and INTPs are the beneficiaries. The INFJ is the one with the upper hand and never quite appreciates the INTP for what he is.

[ChekhovTheAnton]

Actually in socionics you swap the J/P preference for introverts. This would make the INTP (INTj) the beneficiary and the INFJ (INFp) the benefactor. In MBTI the J/P shows which function is extraverted, whereas in socionics the j/p shows which function is dominant.

MBTI INTP: the perceiving function is extraverted (Ne)
Socionics INTp: the perceiving function is dominant (Ni)

So, in regards to the OP: Swap INTP and INFJ to get a more accurate description of the theory.

I don't particularly buy most of this description, but I do notice that my relationships with INFJ feel unbalanced.

[ChekhovTheAnton]

Oops. Too late.

[ataronchronon]

Actually in socionics you swap the J/P preference for introverts. This would make the INTP (INTj) the beneficiary and the INFJ (INFp) the benefactor. In MBTI the J/P shows which function is extraverted, whereas in socionics the j/p shows which function is dominant.


This is completely wrong. The functions in socionics are defined differently, but this is a discussion for another thread.

[cafe]

The OP has it backwards, swap all instances of INTP with INFJ and vice versa. INFJs are the benefactors and INTPs are the beneficiaries. The INFJ is the one with the upper hand and never quite appreciates the INTP for what he is.
Are you saying that the poster is interpreting the Socionics theory incorrectly or the Socionics theory is incorrect?

[ataronchronon]

Are you saying that the poster is interpreting the Socionics theory incorrectly or the Socionics theory is incorrect?

I suppose it would matter whether you were an INTp or an INTj then, which do not necessarily correlate with the MBTI INTP or INTJ. This is where everything gets a bit hazy and doesn't make a lot of sense to someone who doesn't understand socionics very well and it can be very difficult to determine your socionics type without a great deal of research.

To keep it simple, I'll just say that for intuitive types, switch the P for a j or the J for a p. For sensing types, keep the J a j and P a p.

Here's a good INTj profile: http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=LII
and I think it applies to most of the INTPs on this site
Here's an INTp profile for contrast: http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=ILI

[Nighthawk]

One of my greatest loves was an INFJ. It was a pretty good match, even though she was 11 years my senior. We met and got to know each other during the course of a war, so there were a lot of emotions involved there.

I can definitely see the part of her wanting to "fix" things that were wrong with me. By societal standards, there were quite a few things wrong. I did not consider myself to be her superior socially, nor do I believe she thought anything like that of herself. We were pretty much equal.

After the war, she helped me heal mentally ... something for which I am eternally grateful. Our relationship was very passionate for about a year ... but I think I got in too close for her and she backed off. She was a definite free spirt and I was invading her space a bit too much. Unfortunately, she died shortly thereafter ... so we'll never know what could have come of it.

[cafe]

I suppose it would matter whether you were an INTp or an INTj then, which do not necessarily correlate with the MBTI INTP or INTJ. This is where everything gets a bit hazy and doesn't make a lot of sense to someone who doesn't understand socionics very well and it can be very difficult to determine your socionics type without a great deal of research.

To keep it simple, I'll just say that for intuitive types, switch the P for a j or the J for a p. For sensing types, keep the J a j and P a p.

Here's a good INTj profile: http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=LII
and I think it applies to most of the INTPs on this site
Here's an INTp profile for contrast: http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=ILI
Mmm. Yeah, I hadn't seen that one, but I agree. In my husband's case, at least, he fits the LII description better.

That source is lacking a good description for EII, but I think IEI fits MBTI's INFP better than INFJ. I wish I could compare.

[meanlittlechimp]

How can you take their theory seriously when they say stuff like this:

ENTps normally have a long, slim figure. Other parts of the body are also stretched, especially the legs and fingers.

ISFps often have a characteristic stout or chubby, rounded figure. They often have short legs and a bouncy gait, giving the impression of a big springy ball.

ENTjs often have full lips and a characteristic salesman like smile. Their bone structures normally give them their square shape figures. Their faces too are often square in shape and the facial structure itself...

[ekolmus]

The OP has it backwards, swap all instances of INTP with INFJ and vice versa. INFJs are the benefactors and INTPs are the beneficiaries. The INFJ is the one with the upper hand and never quite appreciates the INTP for what he is.

Well, the main problem I had was that I mistook the Socionics four-letter types for the Myers-Briggs four-letter types.

Interestingly enough, I tested INTp on the three-question test, although I believe, from reading the descriptions, that I'm definitely an INFj (down to the facial description! I was astounded when squirrel told me that I really don't show a lot of positive emotion outwardly.)

[cafe]

How can you take their theory seriously when they say stuff like this:

ENTps normally have a long, slim figure. Other parts of the body are also stretched, especially the legs and fingers.

ISFps often have a characteristic stout or chubby, rounded figure. They often have short legs and a bouncy gait, giving the impression of a big springy ball.

ENTjs often have full lips and a characteristic salesman like smile. Their bone structures normally give them their square shape figures. Their faces too are often square in shape and the facial structure itself...
You don't have to take it seriously to talk about it and play with it. It's just Silly Putty for the brain.

[firch]

How can you take their theory seriously when they say stuff like this:

ENTps normally have a long, slim figure. Other parts of the body are also stretched, especially the legs and fingers.

ISFps [MBTI: ISFJ] often have a characteristic stout or chubby, rounded figure. They often have short legs and a bouncy gait, giving the impression of a big springy ball.

ENTjs often have full lips and a characteristic salesman like smile. Their bone structures normally give them their square shape figures. Their faces too are often square in shape and the facial structure itself...
I can think of at least one person I know for each of these types who match the physical description (two for the ISFp). Do you have counterexamples in mind or not? Strangely I know an ENTp who has full lips, a salesman like smile and elongated legs, fingers, and head which is blocky in shape. Over all I'd say he's a P due to a certain charm and the crass comments but he can do the J thing with ease.

Having said that the way socionics handles p/j for introverts appears to be badly broken.

[Electric]

Although I find some of socionics description's suspicious as with photo typology, I have found some interesting information that goes with it's sets of beliefs. Check this site (http://the16types.info/types.php?typename=INTJ) out as it has some good stuff on INTPs.

As for the relationships, they're not equal in respects to all types and also includes factors such as maturity of functions. Such imbalances can be seen in ISFJs as they usually notice the ENTJ first and develops a quick attraction for the type. While on the other hand, the ENTJ gradually understands what truly an amazing and attractive person the presumed quaint ISFJ is.

[ataronchronon]

How can you take their theory seriously when they say stuff like this:

ENTps normally have a long, slim figure. Other parts of the body are also stretched, especially the legs and fingers.

ISFps often have a characteristic stout or chubby, rounded figure. They often have short legs and a bouncy gait, giving the impression of a big springy ball.

ENTjs often have full lips and a characteristic salesman like smile. Their bone structures normally give them their square shape figures. Their faces too are often square in shape and the facial structure itself...

Most people who know socionics very well don't take that kind of stuff seriously either. Socionics.com is the only website I know of that takes visual cues as authoritative. There are plenty others that don't. Just because socionics.com has a ".com" at the end of it does not make it the authoritative socionics website.

Here, read this:
http://socionist.blogspot.com/search/label/visual%20identification


Well, the main problem I had was that I mistook the Socionics four-letter types for the Myers-Briggs four-letter types.

Interestingly enough, I tested INTp on the three-question test, although I believe, from reading the descriptions, that I'm definitely an INFj (down to the facial description! I was astounded when squirrel told me that I really don't show a lot of positive emotion outwardly.)

Tests for socionics are extremely unreliable. Don't trust them. It can be extremely difficult to find out your own type.


Having said that the way socionics handles p/j for introverts appears to be badly broken.

It's only misunderstood. j's and p's vary among types (like ESTj is an extreme j, but INTj is only a minor j because of other factors and ESFj is different from both). They call it "rational" (j) vs. "irrational" (p) and it doesn't mean the same thing as you would expect having a thorough knowledge of the MBTI.

Reading this (http://socionist.blogspot.com/search/label/rationality) may clear things up a bit. I think the writer is a little biased because he is an ENFp (a very "irrational" type, or "extreme p" as you might say), but I agree with most of it.

[jet]

this is a lot, A LOT like a relationship i once had that i'm still trying to have

[b9588]

There's actually a rather interesting blog writeup on this subject that I found a few months ago. The author calls it the "The Grand INTP/INFJ Miscommunication Theory"


INTP/INFJ "Grand Miscommunication" theory

By IgaNoKami

I would like to put forth my theory of why INFJs are theoretically supposed to be the "perfect match" for the INTP, I would appreciate input from the INFJs on the list as well, as I am focusing more on the INTP side, as I am myself an INTP and that is just plain easier.

It is my theory that within the relationship between the INTP and the INFJ, there is a grand accident that lends itself to compatibility between the two types.

The INTP is most happy when allowed to rationally examine, explore, and explain his motivations and self-analysis and observation to an intimate partner. This is simply because the INTP loves self exploration, loves to gather knowledge and insight into his own actions, not for the sake of emotional discovery, simply out of a sense of curiosity and need to analyze and collect data.

The INTP unemotionally and detachedly explains why he or she thinks in a certain way - that is what INTPs are best at, observation, particularly of themselves - and the INFJ then thinks that they are opening up to them, and becomes moved and emotionally attached to the INTP. The INTP sees that their observations are being received and interesting to the INFJ, so they continue.

A fascinating relationship between two types. A relationship of total mutual miscommunication, the motivations are completely different, but with a reinforcing result. The INTP feels the closeness and intimacy of being able to share their scientific self-analysis, and the INFJ feels that the INTP is sharing their innermost thoughts, feelings, and emotions, and so the cycle of miscommunication keeps them locked together in a positively reenforcing relationship.

[Hustler]

Here's what I think about the matter:
Socionics is dumb.
INFJs are also dumb.

[b9588]

Here's what I think about the matter:
Socionics is dumb.
INFJs are also dumb.


Glad to know you've given it a lot of thought.

[Llewellyn]

I don´t wanna read my future that I hope for...

[Curtis24]

I think you may be able to tell personality, to an extent, by head shape. Studies have shown that people with more masculine head shapes and jaws(square and rectangular) tend to be cold, self-interested, and opportunistic, whereas people with round head shapes and soft jaws tend to be warm, compromising, and better with children.

[Llewellyn]

I think you may be able to tell personality, to an extent, by head shape. Studies have shown that people with more masculine head shapes and jaws(square and rectangular) tend to be cold, self-interested, and opportunistic, whereas people with round head shapes and soft jaws tend to be warm, compromising, and better with children.

So aliens are warm, compromising, and better with children?

[lbloom]

So aliens are warm, compromising, and better with children?

Maybe their children.

[Saeculustra]

soft features, but not warm, compromising, or good with children:

<----

[Curtis24]

So aliens are warm, compromising, and better with children?

I guess :P

Actually, I posted the study in the 'Seduction community' thread in Gender Studies. Lemme go fetch it.

[Curtis24]

http://www.ns.umich.edu/htdocs/releases/story.php?id=3055


ANN ARBOR, Mich.—Can you judge a man’s faithfulness by his face? How about whether he would be a good father, or a good provider?

Many people believe they can, according to a University of Michigan study published in the December issue of Personal Relationships, a peer-reviewed academic journal.

U-M social psychologist Daniel J. Kruger conducted a series of on-line experiments showing 854 male and female undergraduate students versions of composite male faces that had been altered to look more or less masculine by adjusting, for example, the shape of the jaw, the strength of brow ridges and the thickness of lips.

Participants were asked which of the men they preferred as mates, dates, parents of their children, or companions for their girlfriends. They were also asked which men were most likely to behave in certain ways—starting a fight or hitting on someone else’s girlfriend, for example.



http://www.ns.umich.edu/htdocs/releases/story.php?id=3055

[Etherealsage]

*Snorts* So things would only be good as long as I "was in need of something" from the INTJ and she was willing to give it? Lol, such bullshit. I also loved the pleasing for no reason line. I like my partner to be happy, yes, wow, so hard to see. And what's this moving up to bigger and bigger things to please about part? Am I a slave? Oh, and logical thought is soooo complicated and hard to follow, lol. I could never do what an INTJ does for a living. Bullshit alert.

Just felt like giving my thoughts about the article itself. As for thoughts on INTP/INFJ pairings as per the topic name, no idea. :grin:


I think you may be able to tell personality, to an extent, by head shape. Studies have shown that people with more masculine head shapes and jaws(square and rectangular) tend to be cold, self-interested, and opportunistic, whereas people with round head shapes and soft jaws tend to be warm, compromising, and better with children.
I don't believe in using head shape or body shapes in general to tell peoples' personalities. I've seen too many situations disproving it. My family's a great example, lol. Reverse the descriptions in the quote there to get it right. :p

[MicroRNA]

There's actually a rather interesting blog writeup on this subject that I found a few months ago. The author calls it the "The Grand INTP/INFJ Miscommunication Theory"

That is exactly what's happening in my interactions with an INFJ.

[Sarcastikus]

not warm, compromising, or good with children

Huh! I'm warm, compromising and good with children. Maybe I'm not an INTP after all, or maybe I'm becoming more balanced as I age?

Are there any theories/ideas about how an INTP-ESFJ relationship could be or evolve?

[Etherealsage]

That is exactly what's happening in my relationship with an INFJ.
My condolences. Been there, not pleasant.

[MicroRNA]

My condolences. Been there, not pleasant.

Condolences?

It's a mutually beneficial relationship. My girlfriend and I are both getting our needs met. I fail to understand how that's negative.

[Etherealsage]

Ah, I was mistaken, from the miscommunication theory part and your statement saying that's what was happening in your interactions with one, I had thought you meant that you were often misunderstanding each other. Sorry.

[Curtis24]

I have a new theory. I now think for a good match, all the functions should be the same except the E/I function. The type that INTPs would best get along with are ENTPs.

[karenk]

Condolences?

It's a mutually beneficial relationship. My girlfriend and I are both getting our needs met. I fail to understand how that's negative.


Yea, I kind of feel like it's a misunderstanding that functions well. I was confused why it was presented as a negative in the theory.

[A Schnitzel]

Yea, I kind of feel like it's a misunderstanding that functions well. I was confused why it was presented as a negative in the theory.

It's because he got dumped.

[MicroRNA]

Yea, I kind of feel like it's a misunderstanding that functions well. I was confused why it was presented as a negative in the theory.

I didn't perceive the theory negatively. Interesting the last few posters have.

[monochromist]

the INTP/INFJ "Grand Miscommunication" theory is very interesting and true to a large extent but i think there is more to it, that is once the intp realises the grand miscommunication that is taking place!

in my view clear communication (especially with a someone considered the soul/mind mate) is very important for intps. once they realise the miscommunication the intp tries to convey this to the infj who cannot comprehend it. this begins a very frustrating cycle... with the intp wanting to analyze the situation and the infj becoming very defensive.

while:

"The INTP is most happy when allowed to rationally examine, explore, and explain his motivations and self-analysis and observation to an intimate partner. This is simply because the INTP loves self exploration, loves to gather knowledge and insight into his own actions, not for the sake of emotional discovery, simply out of a sense of curiosity and need to analyze and collect data.

The INTP unemotionally and detachedly explains why he or she thinks in a certain way - that is what INTPs are best at, observation, particularly of themselves - and the INFJ then thinks that they are opening up to them, and becomes moved and emotionally attached to the INTP. The INTP sees that their observations are being received and interesting to the INFJ, so they continue."

the intp comes to realise the infj not as forthcoming and is very consciously selective with the pieces of information they choose to share with the intp. you would find this especially when talking about personal matters. there would be an almost spiritual connection with very free communication about almost any topic except when it comes to something personal about the infj you would find yourself hitting a brick wall. infj will not yield for open analysis of themselves!

wikisocion.org hilariously describes:

"His oversights and errors ESENIN thoroughly hides, so that do not hope that he will directly say truth to you. Most likely, it will use cunning, will fill to itself mysteriousness and importance, and with the most serious form it will then for long fool to you head."

there is more... maybe later

ps. this is just experience of a female intp with a male infj (with highly developed t)

[Zero Angel]

I have had this experience (general miscommunication) with two of the INTP's I know. We are terrible at reading each other it would seem. The INTPs are great at picking up how mannerisms indicate a mood or such, and then extrapolating from that -- but their Ne/Fe 'radar' seems to be tuned a little too high sometimes, with them seeing emotions or intents which simply do not exist -- this is very strange since it doesnt seem like their emotions interfere with analysis, yet they still get it wrong. In many cases, they would think i'm judging them on a specific thing, when in fact I am not. I might judge them on something different however (where judging is just assigning value to an action or personality trait)

On my side, I misinterpret them when my own emotional state gets in the way of my 'logic'. Its kind of a paradox, because reading someone accurately requires the F function, but it must lack a certain type of emotionality that might distort the data.

Anyways, i'm rambling. The point is, that I would not be surprised if INTP and INFJ would read different intentions of action. You are correct in the assumption that the INFJ is somewhat strategic in what he/she presents to the world. I personally rarely present my innermost thoughts to anyone really. My weaknesses and insecurities are to be guarded since an exploitation of this in my mind would probably seem much more painful than it actually is. This might explain why the INFJ is not so forthcoming. In general though, the overall meaning can still be intuited in time.


with the intp wanting to analyze the situation and the infj becoming very defensive.
I've done this more than once -- The way I see it if I detect someone 'probing' me, I tend to interpret it as an attempt to look for weaknesses which they might be able to exploit or judge me for. A certain level of trust must be established before this is allowed.

Also, silence is not really an indicator of anything. Silence often means, 'maybe you're right, let me defer this for later analysis, when i've had time to Ni and integrate everything with the larger patterns'. I can become quite frustrated and sometimes even wounded later on when I discover that the other persons evaluation is completely incorrect, and even more when I discover that my own evaluations are incorrect. I cannot speak for all INFJ's I can only speak of my own personal experiences in hope that they will better aid you in your own knowledge of INFJ-INTP interactions.

Also: INTPs seem to read 'outside-in' whereas INFJ read 'inside-out'. Its both strange and interesting how both types can misread each other given that they are usually successful at reading others using these method.

[monochromist]

thanks for your thoughts Zero Angel.

i'm was referring to infj-intp within the context of an extremely intimate relationship. (needs more expansion!)

also reading the NF temperament in mating from Keirsey and Bates please understand me was pretty enlightening. illuminating the flip side which maybe was there all along but i failed to notice. i remember reading somewhere about intps being too innocent and naive when in love. (maybe especially so when being the object of infatuation of an NF!). or maybe because perhaps the person becomes exempt from the usual critical mindframe.

i'm curious to know and would appreciate feedback if any one out there has made it beyond the threshold i spoke of. for me, the intp, i'm having to re-model the whole thing in my mind whereas for the infj nothing has changed.

[karenk]

Here's another description for infp/intj for socionics of course. Why is intp put in the beneficiary role? Is it because of a particular cognitive process? It compares the benefactor/beneficiary with the supervisor/supervisee roles (the ESTJ has the supervisor role in that case). intp/estj interact more (at work) because of estj's dominance.

"Benefit, or request, is an asymmetric relation in which the type with the higher status is called the benefactor (or request transmitter) and the type with the lower status is called the beneficiary (or request recipient). There is usually some kind of initial attraction going on, though not always mutual (the beneficiary will usually admire the benefactor's abilities from a distance), but after a while the benefactor realizes that he is supporting the beneficiary without receiving anything in return, and starts to criticize the beneficiary for not holding up his end of the relationship (and so issues a "request"). Meanwhile the beneficiary is irritated that the benefactor feels he has the right to interfere in and try to mold the beneficiary's behavior. If too close a distance is maintained both parties will ultimately feel unfulfilled.

If this relation occurs in a work setting, the beneficiary will strive to help out the benefactor, and to comply with his expectations. If the benefactor doesn't offer the beneficiary some praise for his efforts, the beneficiary will feel inadequate - rather similarly as the supervisee in a supervision relationship. However, a supervisor will take more of a clear leadership role, dominating the exchange, whereas the beneficiary feels no obligation to the benefactor to hang around once his contributions have been slighted. The complementation between the beneficiary's first function and the benefactor's second also makes for a more caring and less competitive relationship than supervision (in fact all relations of repulsion have a greater element of competition in them). "

[Zero Angel]

Might also want to consider asking at forum.infjs.com

[monochromist]

karenk, yes it might in essence be what the benefactor/beneficiary relations speak of.

am still processing...

[Curtis24]

Bullshit, mostly. All these long, weird theories make me shy away from MBTI.

[Etherealsage]

Bullshit, mostly. All these long, weird theories make me shy away from MBTI.
Thank you.

[karenk]

Bullshit, mostly. All these long, weird theories make me shy away from MBTI.

But you don't even agree with the Fe, Ni, etc. theories, which is basically MBTI.

[monochromist]

theories are just more concrete abstract ways of looking at something

[Jennywocky]

theories are just more concrete abstract ways of looking at something

Just like this post.

[Notsoplainjane]

Never paid much attention to all these theories, but after two successive failed relationships with XXTPs, having second thoughts. My last SO was INTP and he seemed to get me like nobody had ever done before... our conversations and discussions (on a whole range of things... science, politics, philosophy, religion, music and so on) were all very exciting and the chemistry was off the charts great, but then he broke up abruptly saying I was getting too emotionally attached. Most of my friends, on the other hand, think I am distant. I am beginning to think that in reality probably INTPs and INFJs don't understand each other very well.:banghead:

[composer]

This is true. My INFJ wife certainly did this with me for years when we first dated; she put me on a pedestal. Which I loved of course. Eventually she figured out I wasn't perfect, but what remained is that she still respected and looked up to me. The reason for this is our abilities match perfectly. She intuits people and their bull. And she manages all of that. I know how to live life to it's fullest and be successful. So we learn from each other which nurtures the relationship.

Also we really differ in other ways, I'm a classical music snob and she likes popular. She's always said "I could never be with a man who had the same musical taste as me" - and this is pretty important to her for some reason I don't understand. But it works.