Drug Empire Architecture

[Hustler]

Okay, INTPs, let's put our problem solving and system architecture abilities to work. Suppose that you had a reliable source for large quantities of cocaine. Suppose that you wanted to set up as a major distributor in your local area, and that it would be worth a lot of money to you (we'll leave exact numbers out, but just assume it'd make you rich). What methods would you use in designing and implementing your distribution plan. What precautions would you take against being caught by law enforcement and against being robbed or boxed out by competitors, thieves, or underlings. How would you handle the money, for both transactions and safekeeping? How would you handle communication and product movement?

[MadamI'madaM]

you can never trust white people with futures not to snitch under the pressure of a 20+ year sentence

and that rules out everyone I know



That, and if you aren't involved with your local organized crime syndicate, it's only a matter of time until you're extorted into nonextistence or dealt with in a more indiscreet way

[Hustler]

you can never trust white people with futures not to snitch under the pressure of a 20+ year sentence

and that rules out everyone I know

That, and if you aren't involved with your local organized crime syndicate, it's only a matter of time until you're extorted into nonextistence or dealt with in a more indiscreet way

So, I'm hearing that two precautions you'd take would be to employ non-white people, and to give a percentage to the local organized crime group. Worthy ideas, to be sure.

[MadamI'madaM]

So, I'm hearing that two precautions you'd take would be to employ non-white people, and to give a percentage to the local organized crime group. Worthy ideas, to be sure.

make that futureless people (usually non-white, sadly), you know, the kind who are desperate for assets of their own and don't care if they live or die...


wait, uh oh


EDIT: but enough of my contrary prickery, I just think cocaine is too high stakes anymore...

ecstasy is somewhat high dollar, and generally involves less sociopathic clientele

[Hustler]

make that futureless people (usually non-white, sadly), you know, the kind who are desperate for assets of their own and don't care if they live or die...


wait, uh oh

That's right. Now you have to figure out a way to keep your underlings in line, or at least keep yourself safe from any ambition they may have.

[aether]

Isn't it mostly logistics? Are INTP's any good at logistics?

[Biff_Loman]

Isn't it mostly logistics? Are INTP's any good at logistics?

Sure. Let's say we are.

[Hustler]

Isn't it mostly logistics? Are INTP's any good at logistics?
That's like saying a game of chess is mostly logistics.

[MadamI'madaM]

Here's what you do...

find a cheap, third world supply of Ketamine (it's all over south america and even Africa, I think)

put the stash in water/vodka bottles (sealed) with a majority of them being ringers

implement some kind of method (invisible ink?) of discerning the real ones, telling no one else

maybe even procure a phony bottling co. truck somehow for long distance transport (or would weigh stations fuck things up?)

work yourself into the rave/club scene in major cities of your liking

keep an eye out for desperate markets

and you could make a profit of up to $30 per 10mL unit in quasi-bulk

or up to $70 profit (maybe more?) on every dried 500mg(same amount), depending on how you distribute

and you're mostly gonna be dealing with mid-income white suburbanites, so if you project an air of distance and professionalism, along with an overt posession of firearms, you should be safe

plus, jackers wouldn't be able to tell which ones are water, which could help you somehow if you thought about it long enough

If you fill a bottling truck, with maybe 65-70% assorted ringers, we're talking real dollars

just not cocaine money...





The parts that need additional planning are how you'd find some third-worlders to sell it to you at under $20 per vial(10mL), or unknowing of your legality at the (lower?) going international bulk-pharm rate

and networking accross several cities without putting your name on the tongues of flaky cutthroats

[Hustler]

and networking accross several cities without putting your name on the tongues of flaky cutthroats

That, plus some of the nitty-gritty details of product movement, communication, and money. Would you be handling the product yourself at any point? How about the monetary transactions? How about the networking? Would you use phones, email, cell phones, pagers... would you only deal in cash, or would you go for the numbered account in the Caymans? So many moving parts, you know, so it makes the development of an overall strategy a real challenge.

[helium]

The real trick is employing one low profile risk-taker who trusts you implicitly. Of course, the large sums of cash you're prepared to let him walk away with help. Your risk taker needs to be good with people, ruthless, and adaptable -- I'd say XXTP. ISTPs or ENTPs would be good choices.

Never touch the product personally. Meet only occasionally and under benign circumstances (throw-away cell calls to the risk-taker to arrange random meeting places) to discuss the broader implications of strategy which he will otherwise implement. Money wired to an off-shore account in the name of your risk-taker, to which you have access through a deceased alias (perhaps a recently passed auntie in the neighborhood of a relative) with an active SSN or other identification. You personally hold your risk-taker responsible. One way in. One way out. I wouldn't sweat many details; just make what I can.

[MadamI'madaM]

Unfortunately, if you want to make ketamine worth your while, you have to come into contact with it at one point or another. That's one of the things that makes the price so high; there aren't any massive shipments of it like coke, weed, or ecstasy. It doesn't even come by regularly in many areas. But it's also not nearly as marketable as coke, weed, or ecstasy. I think, though, that since it's actually used in legitimate industries in America it's scheduled in the class of drugs that won't put you away for half your life.

Either way, if you want to be able to quit early, you're going to have to take the risk of occasionally moving it yourself. It's part of the thrill. Besides, most of the people who "never touch the product" have worked their way up through a well developed, long standing operation involving enough people for internal politics/drama to develop. Once some college kid you've been putting ozs on every other week decides he doesn't want to get out of jail at 30 with nothing to show for himself, you could have additional charges of conspiracy/organized crime depending on the laws in your state.(I think)

[MadamI'madaM]

I would never deal with people who I thought could rub me out in a heartbeat if they needed to.

I would only meet people through those I already trusted, and if I didn't know someone well enough at first (and wasn't afraid of them), I would put water on them the first deal, and call them back immediately after the transaction happened correctly with the truth and a new plan.

I would establish early that codes are to be used on the phone, and transgressions would receive a hangup and suspicion. Obviously, either payphones or untraceable cell phones (which I don't know shit about) would be implemented.

[Oso Mocoso]

How about the networking? Would you use phones, email, cell phones, pagers... would you only deal in cash, or would you go for the numbered account in the Caymans? So many moving parts, you know, so it makes the development of an overall strategy a real challenge.

If you're dealing with Latin American banking, umm ... I hear Costa Rica is a very popular place to do business. A popular cash-scrubbing operation I've heard about is to move money through an S.A. in Costa Rica to a bank account in Managua, and then into the United States. I don't know precisely how that's done, but that's what I've heard. Also ... there's always the classic Internet money laundries like Ebay / Paypal.

--Oso

[ajblaise]

Easy. I hook up with the local dealers i know in my area, tell them the plan, offer a great price, they agree. I dump weight on them, they sell to the coke-heads, they could even buy in higher weight and set up their own network.

My only mode of communication with them would henceforth be through the internet using a proxy server, or by using a Tracphone or a "disposable" phone. I would move the weight through USPS and would ideally never really have any weight on me, it would go straight from me to the USPS and then to my associates.

If any heat gets drawn and my associates ("jail-bait" depending on the guy) get caught they could rat me out but the police/FBI/DEA wouldn't be able to find evidence, much less quality evidence on me...assuming I carry out my method to a tee.


eh? I think that's a pretty down pat plan.

[kuranes]

In addition to the tactical matters that you have mentioned, i would also look to becoming involved with so-called "legitimate" enterprises, such as banks and politicians re: strategic matters, in a modern day approach comparable to former criminal mastermind http://www.earnshaw.com/shanghai-ed-india/tales/t-peop01.htm

Modern techniques, such as conspiracies re: bidding in concert with global associates, for certain kinds of art in auctions, whose price could be thus manipulated, might be a thought for the extremely important task of money laundering for an updated Zaibatsu or Keiretsu. This would be different than the failed Keiretsu's of Japan, caught holding loans on unproductive assets in recent years, when the music stopped, since they were often pressured into buying, or continuing to hold those same assets, by Yakuza "partners". In this hypothetical example, since "you" would be the "Yakuza", you would not intentionally push your own banking partners into such movements unless it represented some corresponding trade-off that ultimately went towards the group total advantage vs. their disadvantage.

[MasterMerk]

I assume by "distributor" you mean "dealer".

First of all, you better hope you're extraverted. You will first need to establish a reliable and very extensive network of acquaintances in your local area. You will also need to establish reliable price margin to remain competitive if you don't already know street prices.

Don't slum it at first - you really don't want to get in over your head. Try colleges and ask around. Go to all the parties you can. Immerse yourself.
Only once you're fully acquainted with the local scene - and I mean fully - should you start dealing. Know exactly how much you want to sell, and know exactly how much you want to pay for it. Suppliers will sell it to you in bulk at discounted prices, the exact amount varying, which you can then distribute for a nice profit margin. Try to buy it from them at their base of operations (so you know where to go to "complain") with a couple of very trusted strong-arms in tow - just in case - and always try for the best deal you can possibly get. Getting ripped off is needlessly silly.

At this point, finding clients should be no problem whatsoever. Never deal to someone you don't know personally. If you get asked by a stranger, persistently pretend you don't know what the fuck they're talking about until they clear out. Have an awareness of your surroundings and never get caught out in the act by anyone you don't know. You also do not want to give people the impression that you're a dealer or that you're packing drugs, even superficially. If a known client inquires, tell them you don't have any on you at the moment and arrange a "less public" transaction - I wouldn't say completely private, unless you're confident you can handle yourself - otherwise, always keep it discreet like a ninja.

Never front anyone. Always assume these are druggies you're dealing with, not your friends. Keep it strictly business and not only will you garner more respect, you'll keep your money.

Dealers bear the brunt of the risk in every possible sense of the word when it comes to drugs. You will be in direct contact with end-users. You will be a public figure within your scene and more prone to police stings because of it. Also, dealers get robbed. A lot. Most arrests occur from anonymous tips. Don't let that happen. Security is your top priority, so use a fake name, wear nondescript sunglasses if you feel like it and never let anyone in on your place of residence unless you trust them like family. Even then, you should keep a nice safe to stick everything in, just in case.

Typically, the better you know your customer, the safer your chances are. Being a locally based distributor, you will most likely establish "trusted" regulars - no, not fucking junkies, who are dangerous, most likely poor and to be avoided - who will provide both steady income and low risk transactions. After that you're basically set for a while.

I think that just about covers it. Pushing is just one of those occupations you need to practically learn on the job to get a real feel for logistically.

[LongSilence]

Yep, totally agree with kuranes. First port of call while keeping things on a low-key personal basis would be to find weaknesses in the structure of the local laaw enforcement and possible 'friends with influence'.

[helium]

I think that just about covers it. Pushing is just one of those occupations you need to practically learn on the job to get a real feel for logistically.

Oh, God. Pushing? No, no, no. We're talking about an empire built around a demand, not a neighborhood network built on the backs of school kids.

Aren't we?

Never get personally involved if you plan to be big. Involvement (and spending cash) attracts attention from all kinds of levels.

[rhinosaur]

Looking for ideas, Hustler?

[MasterMerk]

Oh, God. Pushing? No, no, no. We're talking about an empire built around a demand, not a neighborhood network built on the backs of school kids.

Aren't we?

Never get personally involved if you plan to be big. Involvement (and spending cash) attracts attention from all kinds of levels.

Hey mang, you gotta start somewhere. But fair enough. My advice is to go watch Scarface and learn all the songs verbatim. Then establish an organised crime cartel. Then .... profit.

[rhinosaur]

Unless you are at the tip top of the pyramid, you won't make a lot of money, and you constantly have to watch your back. Unless you enjoy the threat of being stabbed or shot every day, or arrested and lose all your money.

The good part is you know how to get all the good drugs.

If I were at the top of the pyramid, I would create some sort of password scheme that changes every once in a while, so that you'd have to be in the loop to get any drugs at all. That way, cops would have a harder time figuring stuff out, and tourists could be ripped off very easily.

And I think that Capone had it figured out -- you have to be a manager, delegate responsibility so that you can't be pinned down with anything. Get your goons to do everything for you, and you can deny involvement.

[Hustler]

I think that just about covers it.
Once you had established a few buyers on college campuses, how would you get the product to them, communicate with them, and handle the money changing hands?

[MadamI'madaM]

I love how people think you can just waltz on in to the "top of the pyramid" without first driving around with kilos in the trunk and shit in your pants for long enough for bad things to happen.

[Hustler]

I love how people think you can just waltz on in to the "top of the pyramid" without first driving around with kilos in the trunk and shit in your pants for long enough for bad things to happen.

If you're willing to cut the pie up, there are always people who can be paid to do dangerous things. We're not talking about moving up through an existing drug distribution organization, we're talking about falling into an extremely good connection (let's say a cousin marries someone who's brother is connected, or some other such method of getting networked into something like this) for big supply. The question, then, is how to take advantage of it.

I like the college campus idea as a starting point for a customer base. Having one client at each institution of higher learning in your area who is willing to buy and move weight on the campus has got to be worth quite a bit. Here is a scheme, perhaps a little too paranoid, that might actually work. To start, it has to be risky, because, in theory, the supplier only trusts you, and isn't willing to do business with anyone else. In terms of obtaining the goods, you'll just have to take that risk upfront for a while, until you can convince the supplier to distribute to you under your own terms. It requires having two employees, neither of whom has to know the other, but both of whom you have to trust (or who have to like the money enough to stay loyal).

You pick up the supply and store it in dog-proof containment (inside containers of detergent, for example) in an anonymous storage facility, or some place like a bus station locker. The location of this stash spot will change every week. That is the extent to which you will handle the product. We assume you have done the networking suggested by MasterMerk to come up with customers and to establish prices and so on. You have given these customers a safe deposit box key for an anonymous safe deposit box. When a customer wants to place an order, he places the money in an envelope (for an agreed upon price) and writes his personal numeric code on the envelope.

This is where your first employee comes into play. All he does is check the safe deposit box on a regular basis, wire the money to an offshore account, either anonymously or with fake ID at a place like Western Union, and send an email to you (you'll use IP masking and have the account not be in your name, obviously, and use a secure, web-based email service) that just contains the code and an encoded figure for the amount. You then email the amount to be distributed (encoded) to employee two, who has obtained the product from the stash spot and is sitting on it, along with the name of the college campus in question, also encoded. He takes the amount ordered and stuffs it into a hollowed-out fake rock. If you haven't seen them, they are usually made out of foam and are designed to look like rocks. They are the type that are used in movies, and are readily available at a large number of gift/gag shops and the like. He sticks the amount in question in that hollowed-out fake rock. He goes and places it somewhere on the college campus in question, usually in some bushes or undergrowth, or the like, and takes a GPS reading of his location. At all times, he will only handle the product in such a way as to not leave prints (wearing gloves, etc). He then sends you the GPS information, which you forward to your customer, whom you've supplied with his own personal GPS locator. He can then go pick up the product.

Orders handled this way could be processed and delivered within a day. If the buyers are instructed to place their orders in the morning, and if employee one checks the box every afternoon, the product could be hidden that evening and found later that evening.

At the end of every week, you distribute money to your compatriots by transferring some into their numbered accounts. You could split it up three ways, or you could keep half and give them each a quarter, or whatever other payment scheme you can imagine.

Some noteworthy aspects of this plan are that no communication is ever done over the phone or in person. It is all carried out over email. I think email is far more secure than the phone and, if done right, I don't see how the authorities could possibly tie you to an account. I think the biggest risk in this whole operation comes on obtaining the supply. If you could convince your supplier to let someone else pick the product up for you, or if you could hatch a scheme similar to your own distribution scheme where the product is left for you by a third party at some location, that would take a little of the risk off.

The one shortcoming in this plan, assuming the channels of communication can't be compromised, is that it would be nice to have some idea of any heat your customers pick up from distributing product on campus. If one gets busted, he might try to roll on you, and it would be nice to know if that's going to happen. This would require either employing spies close to the people in question or having some connection with law enforcement who could inform you of drug busts in the areas where you distribute. Both of these things are easier said than done. I don't think you will ever be caught or prosecuted based on one of your customers catching heat and trying to set you up (you're simply too disconnected from the customer), but your operation could at least be brought to a temporary halt on a given campus.

You could eventually branch out to many college campuses, establishing quite a large network. This might require hiring on another product dispenser or two, or at least setting up a schedule that informs each customer which days he is permitted to re-up. Processing 20 orders on Friday night from colleges all over a 50 mile radius may be impossible, so staggering the order flow may be a necessity. Every dispenser will be in charge of a certain set of campuses and, as such, will be required to learn the campuses backwards and forward, taking a few days to walk them and consider where product can be hidden safely for customers to pick up, and also to establish a look by which they will blend in on their trips to campus and not stick out as off-campus drug dealers.

[rhinosaur]

That's way too complicated to work well. Creeping around, hiding things under fake rocks on college campuses? If I saw someone crawling around in the bushes, I'd be pretty suspicious.

I like the idea of having keys... You could place the product in one nondescript locker, and sell the key for the asking price of what's in the locker. Sell in large amounts only, that way the number of locations is limited and you make a larger amount of profit for the amount of risk involved. Let your buyers deal the shit however they want.

Never sell at the same place twice, and never sell more than one key at a time. If someone knows or thinks you have several bags stashed at one location, they'll break open all the lockers to find the rest of the bags.

Never use your name, and never keep anything at your house or in your car. Cash only -- you pay for the key, end of story. Find a way that works, like meeting at a restaurant or something, but don't leave a trace.

Also keep in mind you'll be competing with the other drug lords. If you join one of the existing networks, you'll be a lot safer, otherwise you'll have to severely limit your amount of dealing, in order to avoid both them and the cops.

Find a goon, some dumb muscle you trust, to protect you, and treat him well. And buy a gun.

[Hustler]

That's way too complicated to work well. Creeping around, hiding things under fake rocks on college campuses? If I saw someone crawling around in the bushes, I'd be pretty suspicious.
You have to be extra careful these days, what with the Patriot Act and the ease with which the cops/feds can get wires set up. You have to have layers of protection. You have to have a competent employee, not some guy who is going to be creeping around. If some guy is walking around on campus with a backpack at about 7:00pm, who is going to think that's suspicious? Now if he waits until he's out of sight of everyone and dips into a hedge row for about five seconds to stash the product, what's the problem there?


I like the idea of having keys... You could place the product in one nondescript locker, and sell the key for the asking price of what's in the locker. Sell in large amounts only, that way the number of locations is limited and you make a larger amount of profit for the amount of risk involved. Let your buyers deal the shit however they want.
Yeah, the anonymous storage factor works, I think.

[naruto littles helpers.jpeg]

busy busy B-usinessman, whose fiscal year has seen the largest revenue increase of any one corporate entity in all the land under the falling sun? me, you say? oh, it warms the heart to hear it thus! and how lovely the warmth spirals downward until it collects upon one dot. so cold and black it is, this dot; so bottomless, like a dark. wont you come to fill it with me? oh, say you will! wont it you fill, unwillingly?

[MadamI'madaM]

You have to be extra careful these days, what with the Patriot Act and the ease with which the cops/feds can get wires set up. You have to have layers of protection. You have to have a competent employee, not some guy who is going to be creeping around. If some guy is walking around on campus with a backpack at about 7:00pm, who is going to think that's suspicious? Now if he waits until he's out of sight of everyone and dips into a hedge row for about five seconds to stash the product, what's the problem there?


Yeah, the anonymous storage factor works, I think.

because the Patriot Act involves surveilance:ph34r:

[Hustler]

because the Patriot Act involves surveilance:ph34r:

Surveillance, actually. Yes, it does. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act%2C_Title_II)

[Ferrus]

You want to discuss what is in effect a glorified business model? Can we stick to philosophical and abstract ideas, kthx.

[Marston]

Hopefully, this is theoretical.

Hopefully.

[Hustler]

You want to discuss what is in effect a glorified business model? Can we stick to philosophical and abstract ideas, kthx.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Ferrus, than are dreamt of in your philosophy. And so the mind of the architect is compelled by nature to consider a vast array of systems.

[indie]

This (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/10/04/world/main3329296.shtml?source=RSSattr=World_3329296) was quite the creative endeavor, I thought . . . huge, icky, dead bugs as a means of transport.

[Hustler]

This (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/10/04/world/main3329296.shtml?source=RSSattr=World_3329296) was quite the creative endeavor, I thought . . . huge, icky, dead bugs as a means of transport.

Two problems: it's inefficient (how much can you fit in a bug?), and customs has to check things like dead bugs when people try to bring them into the country, so they're going to get scrutinized. That said... shit, you never know what it is you're snorting; it might just be bug guts.

[omnirook]

You could get away w/pushing a bit of cocaine in a rural area - the cheap shit that does more to clog the nose than get the fool who snorts it high. Why could you get away w/it? Because the market is mostly untapped - untapped for a reason: there's not enough money there. Go into a bigger market and not have permission from those who are in the business of giving permission, and your momma will recieve a package containing your severed head. The drug business is OWNED by the drug lords and the police and the federal government. You'd have an easier time opening up a bookie joint or even a whore parlor. Be active in the local chamber of commerce and give a little bit of tribute to the police and the local representative of whatever family runs your area, and you can do business, no problem. Never forget to pay off the local officials! Never, ever. To forget that is to say that you would like to spend 10 years bent over while Mungo pounds you in the ass.

[bclark619g]

For email security, write a message, do not send it, just save it as a draft. Your accomplice accesses the same account, reads the draft message, writes a response, saving it as a draft, then deletes the original message. Because the message is never sent, it can't be searched by the government; unless they get access to your account.

[Hustler]

Because the message is never sent, it can't be searched by the government; unless they get access to your account.
Why is that? How could a law enforcement agency read a sent email but not read an email written and then left as a draft? It seems to me if they are able to access your sent/received emails, then perhaps they are able to access everything you do on your computer?

[bclark619g]

Why is that? How could a law enforcement agency read a sent email but not read an email written and then left as a draft? It seems to me if they are able to access your sent/received emails, then perhaps they are able to access everything you do on your computer?

I don't know if this is true or not. It seems reasonable because once the email is sent it is out on the internet and is not encrypted, so it could be read by anyone or by the government's search software (my assumption). If the email is never sent, the government can't search for it, unless they get access to your email account. And I bet they don't have the resources to check everyone's email account everyday.

You could open a new Gmail or Yahoo mail account every hour and how could they keep up with you?