Your Careers

[s0978]

I would love to know what careers or career aspirations you INTPs have and have had.

edit: :)

[s0978]

edit: :devil:

[lexiphanic]

Fifth year in I dropped out of college to make music. Chances are I will succeed.

[garak]

Thought you were an INTJ, s0523?

Programming is my main hobby and I have been doing it for work a little bit for the past 2 or so(?) years now. Right now I'm in semester two-ish of community college, just doing gen ed stuff. I plan on transferring to a university for a CS degree. Although I wouldn't be surprised if I don't make it that far. Hopefully if I do drop out of college, it will be because I found a way to make good money already. :) I know I love programming but the task of finding a truly enjoyable programming job is looking to be challenging. Starting my own business has always been a desire but I don't think I'm ready for it.

[misutii]

i want to get a phd in early-mid 18th century french history and become a museum curator....... although some back-up plans include becoming a professor or going to law school and becoming a professional asshole (i guess i wouldn't mind screwing idiots out of money as long as i dont have to deal with their pathetic whining personally i.e. not litigation.....)

[int]

I'm a tech in a starup - which means I get involved in a lot of the other crap.

But I wish I was involved in something much bigger. Much, much bigger.

[Nyairj]

Jeez, this is a tough one. I'm a college sophomore, and I'm still undecided. I'm thinking of becoming a professor in one of the hard sciences or social sciences. Psychology, geology, and biology appeal to me. Maybe I'll do something with political science.

I also have the problem of having too many interests. Worse, I like to try new things. I'm not entirely sure I could stay with just one thing long enough to get a phD. Why does the world hate me so much? :rant:

Maybe I should do something that pays well and doesn't consume too much of my time. Then I could do what I really want to do in my free time.

I'll probably end up changing jobs every five years.

[SensEye]

50% or so of us seem to be computer nerds. Don't fight it, it's a natural fit.

[s0978]

50% or so of us seem to be computer nerds. Don't fight it, it's a natural fit.

why is this so?

[garak]

why is this so?
I've thought a bit about it, and my explanation so far is because they're made up of very complex conceptual systems.

--------------------------------

Indeed, most primary interests of an INTP are things which he cannot fully understand, usually because they are highly complex or have some exotic, mystical element that does not yield to analysis. This is the real reason why INTPs are drawn to complexity: anything simple is too quickly understood and cannot hold the fascination for long.

--------------------------------

Plus, it is a mostly solitary activity.

[Miss Anthropic]

I earned a degree in exercise science a bazillion years ago when the trend just started with companies providing fitness centers and testing to their empoyees. I interned at TI in Dallas Texas and felt I reached my pinnacle when I did a hydrostatic weighing on a guy and then tested body fat percentage with calipurs and was accurate within .5%. It was at that moment that I realized it was all pointless. That the only people interested in cardio stress tests and body fat percentage were those who didn't need to be and that all you really need to do is stand naked in front of the mirror and see how fat you are, and run around the block to see if you get out of breath, then you know you need to get more aerobic exercise! I had earned a degree in something I wanted to learn because it was "fun." I did some managing of a fitness center and rapidly discovered I'm an impossible task-master for my subordinates and that ultimately it is more fun to WORK OUT in a fitness center than to work IN one. So I've done everything from teaching, retail, production, financial, to construction and more. And now I'm back in school to find a 'real' career. Jill of all trades, good enough, yet master of none!

[Napoleon]

I earned a degree in exercise science a bazillion years ago when the trend just started with companies providing fitness centers and testing to their empoyees. I interned at TI in Dallas Texas and felt I reached my pinnacle when I did a hydrostatic weighing on a guy and then tested body fat percentage with calipurs and was accurate within .5%. It was at that moment that I realized it was all pointless. That the only people interested in cardio stress tests and body fat percentage were those who didn't need to be and that all you really need to do is stand naked in front of the mirror and see how fat you are, and run around the block to see if you get out of breath, then you know you need to get more aerobic exercise! I had earned a degree in something I wanted to learn because it was "fun." I did some managing of a fitness center and rapidly discovered I'm an impossible task-master for my subordinates and that ultimately it is more fun to WORK OUT in a fitness center than to work IN one. So I've done everything from teaching, retail, production, financial, to construction and more. And now I'm back in school to find a 'real' career. Jill of all trades, good enough, yet master of none!


I am going after the same degree (master exercise science )
At this moment i dont know what i will do with the diploma, but i stick with it like u said because it is fun. I don't know if its possible but i was hoping to do some research for sports or train one athlete.
I guess i will have to wait to see where this is going to take me.

[Miss Anthropic]

I am going after the same degree (master exercise science )
At this moment i dont know what i will do with the diploma, but i stick with it like u said because it is fun. I don't know if its possible but i was hoping to do some research for sports or train one athlete.
I guess i will have to wait to see where this is going to take me.
The field is huge and if you want to go with it the jobs are certainly there...for the entrepeneur as well as the company person, or research into geriatric issues especially. With a masters degree you would be able to do more medically oriented work, which sounds more interesting and useful to me--but I'm not willing to do a masters in that field. Just don't love it enough!

[athman]

I looked seriously at doing a PhD this year. Researched, talked to professors, talked to other students etc. Then decided not to becasue however interesting a thesis might start out to be, I can't commit to bashing away at the same thing for 4-6 years. The cliche is true ... 'a Phd is knowing more and more about less and less.'

I decided to continue my education in bite size pieces. I recently completed further studies in finance, I enrolled in a certificate, did more subjects and qualified with a grad diploma. That was enough for me and I didn't continue on to the masters level. I got what I wanted out of it. I left before I was bored, and still walked away with a qualification. Whereas a Phd is kind of all-or-nothing (although sometimes you can salvage a Master's out of it if it falls short).

I'm now thinking of doing the same thing in Law. I have no desire to practice as a lawyer, but I get involved in legal stuff in my job and i have always found it interesting. Later this year I'll probably enroll in a grad certificate and just see what happens from there.

I know things are loosening up in other fields too. I'm currently working with a university that is trying to develop its psychology and psychiatry offerings into more digestable components and open them up for participation by others in allied fields (business, social work, nursing, neuroscience etc.)

Of course, I'll miss out on the status of being called 'Doctor', but If that was an issue I'd just buy a degree on the internet.

[Garyincinci]

Currently I install Home Theatres, Plasma TVs and HD Satalitte Systems. I've also installed Computer Networks and Road Runner, and was also a Tuba Player for the US Army.

I still don't know what I want to be when I "Grow up", other than I know I want to do something that is not only going to have a profound effect on humanity, but hopefully will literally change the world. I'd really like to find a way to teach people to try and understand each other and respect individuality instead of focusing on societal expectations.

[Crazy]

I am a Nuclear Biological Chemical Defense Specialist in the US Marine Corps. In a year and a half, I will be something else. I don't know what that is yet, but I know it won't be with the Marines.

[crule81]

i want to get a phd in early-mid 18th century french history and become a museum curator....... although some back-up plans include becoming a professor or going to law school and becoming a professional asshole (i guess i wouldn't mind screwing idiots out of money as long as i dont have to deal with their pathetic whining personally i.e. not litigation.....)

Hah! I'm a professional asshole in the area of litigation. Currently, however, I am regretting not getting my PhD in european history instead.

[s0978]

Indeed, most primary interests of an INTP are things which he cannot fully understand, usually because they are highly complex or have some exotic, mystical element that does not yield to analysis. This is the real reason why INTPs are drawn to complexity: anything simple is too quickly understood and cannot hold the fascination for long.

Mack, you're thinking of programming as you write this, yes?

[MacGuffin]

...going to law school and becoming a professional asshole (i guess i wouldn't mind screwing idiots out of money as long as i dont have to deal with their pathetic whining personally i.e. not litigation.....)
Flattery will get you nowhere!

[garak]

Mack, you're thinking of programming as you write this, yes?
Eh, I dunno about that. But I do have no less than 4 source files open at the moment, underneath my browser.

[Flinchy]

I write web copy. Entertainment news and features. I like the autonomy and thought involved in the writing, but I hate the routine, monotony, and utter meaninglessness of my work. Oh, and the pay is horrific.

I used to toy with the idea of going back to school to get an advanced degree, but despite having a zillion and a half interests, there is absolutely nothing I would want to devote myself to for 5 years (let alone the years that would follow the degree). I considered getting a Master's degree "for fun," but I quickly decided there is nothing fun about needless debt.

Currently, I am considering a career in teaching kids. Yeah, it's a rather un-INTP-like profession, but it's the best idea I've had thus far.

There are some careers I think I would enjoy and be good at, but have ZERO motivation to take the steps needed to begin them. For example, I think I'd be a good psychologist or even a physician, but the chances of me pursuing either of those fields is...I'd say...pretty slim (at best).

My fantasy careers are doing things like being a songwriter or scriptwriter, but I don't have the motivation.

And my ulitmate dream job would be to be a professional singer, but that's nearly impossible.

Lately, I have been wondering -- if teaching doesn't pan out -- is there some sort of physical-labor-type job that I can do? Bearing in mind that I am a rather unathletic woman. Sometimes I think I'm better served by focusing on my body and not my mind...probably for some quasi spiritual reasons.

[Star]

Lately, I have been wondering -- if teaching doesn't pan out -- is there some sort of physical-labor-type job that I can do? Bearing in mind that I am a rather unathletic woman. Sometimes I think I'm better served by focusing on my body and not my mind...probably for some quasi spiritual reasons.

It still bothers me on some levels to admit it, but perhaps the most fulfilling job I ever had was as a temporary letter carrier for the postal service. I spent the entire day walking, out in the world, in any weather, lost in thought, and the thousand daily glimpses into the private lives of complete strangers insured that I was never bored.

You might like it.

[Flinchy]

Thank you for the thought! What's disturbing is that working for the P.O. may in fact pay more than my current job. My grandmother is always worried about my job security (having lived through the Great Depression and whatnot) and likes to suggest civil service work.

I definitely like the idea of walking all day. My health and fitness is very important to me (health and fitness are among my zillion and a half interests) and one of the things I hate most about my current job is how I am confined to a desk for 8 hours a day.

I once considered bicycle messengering, but decided I am not tough enough for it...however, walking, I can do. ;o)

[raincrow007]

Artist (painter). Master's degree. Pondering a PhD in semiotics.

[s0978]

Artist (painter). Master's degree. Pondering a PhD in semiotics.

Oh, this is interesting. Who has PhD programs in semiotics? Or would you apply to a Linguistics Dept?

[raincrow007]

Pondering doesn't mean I've done any actual research into the subject. ;) But I'm sure there's some sort of serbo-croatian-kellog's-boxtop-frankenstein PhD program out there, which is probably the only sort of program I'd get into with my ever so useful current set of degrees. Just a weird verison of INTP meaning hunting, I suppose.

[Nighthawk]

Started my first career with a BS in weapon systems engineering and became an Army officer. The job was a very poor match for an anti-authoritarian INTP, and I butted heads a LOT with my bosses. I hated most of the "because we've always done it that way" procedural garbage. I'm not sure why I stuck with it for 13 years. Probably because I was able to change jobs every 12 months or so. I was a tank platoon leader, 2nd in command of a tank company, maintenance officer, logistics officer, training officer, personnel officer, cavalry troop commander, and administrative officer ... interspersed with several schools and courses. By the time I learned something, it was on to the next job. I never became too bored with what I was doing. Also had quite a few "S" experiences that I feel have left me better rounded. Eventually however, I crashed and burned.

Career Two involved going back to school for a computer science masters and then working as a software engineer for Texas Instruments. The job quickly became lock step and boring, so I moved to a small start-up company. Lots of latitude there to do things that I wanted, but it involved 70-hour work weeks and a ton of mismanagement due to nepotism. Two years of that burnt me out physically, so (go figure) I became a web consultant. That was initially fun, since it involved a new project every 3-6 months. My most memorable project was a pay-per-view genomics site where I was able to work with geneticists to create a DNA sequence parsing system. Dealing with stupid clients was the worst part however, as I was usually involved with some clueless mid-level manager or salesperson. I found myself having to educate people over and over and over and over again about the same basic concepts ... many with limited success. Eventually it became the same thing over and over again. Clueless client, pretty web front end, application server in the middle, database in the back. Guardian stagnation took over.

The consultancy eventually became more and more sales-based and, since I hate selling, I went to work for a bank as a software engineer. The bank is Guardian Central. It is stable and pays well, but definitely is not mind expanding. They have a reasonably fat wallet for new technology however, so I put up with things while I am still learning new tech they let me access. Most days I feel like I'm whoring myself for cash. I've seriously considered the PhD route, and I will have the opportunity to do so in another year. Whether I take that opportunity is another matter. I'm not sure I want to crater my annual earnings for 3-4 years at this point in my life, nor do I know if I have sufficient drive to complete such an endeavor. Just studying for the GRE again is a royal pain in the butt. There is also the uncertainty of what lies at the end of such an endeavor. Getting stuck teaching the worst classes because I'm the junior professor? I guess I've become lazy.

[earwax]

I am currently a programmer "anal"yst. It's usually fairly boring work. But my boss seems to understand my quirks and shelters me from most of the loonies running the asylum. As a result I am left alone and allowed to solve problems. And I am given free reign to explore new techniques. So I guess it ain't too bad.

[SensEye]

why is this so?See my post on this thread (http://www.intpcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=55455#post55455) for my opinion.

[gman13]

I got into this whole INTP thing bascially because I don't know what I am doing with my life. You know the drill....career test this and inventory that. I can't tell you how many of these things I have done and they don't really get me anywhere. I think I just like taking them. I think somehow I want to find an objective measurement of all attributes. Then there is this forum... to hear you talk about your careers... I only relate too well. My shrink tells me I have ADD. I think I am just this weirdo personality mixture (no offense). I don't think anyone should read too far into this though. It is good to hear what people like/dislike about their careers especially when you share a very similar personality; maybe something will click. But this is really just a grouping of some similar traits, not absolutes... it is all sorta made up. Anyway...

Was an Environmental Science major in college after switching from art. Thought I wanted to live in the woods and save the world...I still might. But not really knowing what to do with that and thinking that I needed to make $ to pay off my loans I got a minor in Econ, hoping it would help in the biz world.

Did a financial internship and landed a gig as a mutual fund accountant. HUGE mistake!!! I liked learning about different investment vehicles, but the job was about slamming numbers into a computer at lightning speed and praying you didn't screw it up. I walked out one day. Not the most mature thing to do, but whatever...

So I moved across country and ended up taking the first gig I could get, which was a temp to hire job in another finance type company...but more "client relations." Was ok until I learned the basic gist of how we made money and what we do...enough to explain it to my new VP boss. After that it was just grind and my attitude didn't help and they let me go.

A girl I worked with previously had job working at William Morris, which is a huge talent agency. She would go to parties and shows and do all sorts of fun stuff. I always loved music and was playing in bands in LA. I thought that the music biz would be cool. Got a job as a lowly assistant at a music pub co; a year later I got offered a better assistant job somewhere else. Now I am still at the same place 5 years later. The pay is decent for what I do and so are the hours. And there are a lot of perks. I see a lot of shows, have a small expense account, we have a bar in the office, wear jeans to work, and I meet some really interesting people. But my basic job is not that exciting and I won't be able to do it for much more. I am a Creative dept assistant and the Webmaster. I push a lot of paper. There are only so many gigs you can do here really. You can crunch numbers, push paper, or bring in money...

So we shall see. I thought about delving further into the web stuff. But I dunno that whole programming thing just doesn't get me going. Perhaps more of the design stuff. I just seem to start and get bored. I have considered a million things: furniture design, public policy work, dentist (I hear they don't work too much), various arts and crafts stuff (maybe someday), music producing (at least on the side), foreign service, ecological engineer...

[jread]

I have always been lost as to what I want to do. I started college as a Computer Science major, and at the same time, started working for local government in Geographic Information Systems (http://www.gis.com). 7 years later, I'm still in GIS, have changed my major to GIS, then to Urban Planning (until I realized how political it is), then finally, back to Computer Science. Once I FINALLY finish my degree (I'm on the 10-year B.S. plan it seems), I hope to get into the more technical programming/application development side of GIS. I think it would be fun since I know the software very well and it would also make me marketable since it's a very specialized field.

We'll see what happens. I like my current job working for the local government because I have good job security and a very laid-back boss. Also, I get to absorb myself in the computer and hardly ever have to talk to anyone or deal with customers. My ideal job would involve being locked away from the world and never having to talk to anyone... ever. I hate the general public.

Interestingly enough, the other side of me is actively involved in amateur boxing and kickboxing. I'm currently training for a Golden Gloves tournament at the end of this month! I like combat sports because it's one on one, physical and (mostly) mental competition with someone else. Not to mention that it gets you into excellent shape. The idea of becoming a professional fighter sounds great to me as well. If I had a chance at it, I might consider dropping college for now and dedicating myself to it. Will just have to see what happens.

[Mr. Good Beats]

in 16 days i will receive my expensive piece of paper for my outstanding performance in the realm of business operations. so, i guess its time to start looking for a career, good thing this thread was started started me thinking. probably just take the first thing that comes along and take a couple of years and figure out if i can handle it. if so i would imagine i would obtain an MBA, if not maybe i'll go back to school for chemistry. i could handle being a mad scientist if i grow up.

i didn't really want to go into business, but with my high school grades i didn't have much choice, and i wanted to get outta my hometown. what a reason to go to school. business is pretty universal and probably a good degree to have, so ahhh hey maybe something good will transpire from all of my hard work. ha. hard work thats funny

[t]

i'm still a college student (on my 5th year, but the end is in sight! provided i don't decide to take yet another semester off). my major is environmental science. i'm a former biology major, but memorizing way too many genus & species names was grating on me and i found i liked physics & geology much more. the environmental science program took all my bio credits, so that is why it is my current major instead of geology.

as for the future? i've been offered a full time position at my current part time job doing criminal research and i took it b/c i'm going to have stay in school after this degree to do anything i would actually like to do anyway. plus, i work in a really laid back office that doesn't mind when you are a half hour late for work, lets you wear sweatpants, and the research aspect of my job is really appealling to me.

i'm going to probably go back to school after working for a few years to pursue a degree in atmospheric science or meteorology. i'd like to eventually study climate change or become a meteorologist. the only thing that stands in my way is my utter lack of motivation for schoolwork & class. soooo... we'll see.

as for a phd... i've thought about it, for the sole reason that i want to be in charge of my own research. i don't think i have the drive to actually complete the degree, though. however, i've been working on my senior research project lately, and though it is only a semester long instead of 4 years long, i'm finding that when i get to research something i'm truly interested in, i am pretty motivated. so maybe a phd wouldn't be so out of my reach.

[t]

i wanted to add that i had a scholarship for a computer related degree awarded to me when i graduated high school. i ended up not using it, but i think it just may be an intp thing.

[t]

It still bothers me on some levels to admit it, but perhaps the most fulfilling job I ever had was as a temporary letter carrier for the postal service. I spent the entire day walking, out in the world, in any weather, lost in thought, and the thousand daily glimpses into the private lives of complete strangers insured that I was never bored.

You might like it.

ya know, my brother (who's tested infp & intp) had that job for a while and loved it.

[s0978]

i don't think i have the drive to actually complete the degree, though

Damn, why do we all feel that way!!

Lately I've been thinking more and more about going ahead and starting a program, and then just dropping out whenever I'd had enough. I don't need/ want more degrees, but I do think it's what sounds most appealing, at least for the short term.

Or not.

Man, I hate my P sometimes.

[QrioCT]

thinking about going into psychology, but i dont know if an INTP is fit for listening to people pour their hearts out and helping people with their problems. actually, i dont think i am. i actually just want to study psychology, but you also have to make money.

[sammyburbank]

Ok,
I started out wanting to be a writer and a physicist, having seen the computer world grind my father to a pulpy mass.

Got obsessed with music and began playing and composing every waking second. Got a general BA in liberal arts. Great "decision." Now...

I read scripts for an actor here in Hollywood. Great, easy, quick money, talking about how bad people's characters and plots are. Not enough work there...

I've been a tutor, but middle schoolers make me want to tear my hair out with anxiety. Why should they have homework? Why should I force them to do it? Why is the rote method still being taught? WHY? No, again...

I got my first paying job gig as a music producer, after having been in 30 or so bands (playing sax, flute, guitar, and singing), self-publishing a couple of albums, writing a couple string quartets (one was a "travelog" of my adventures through Mexico, Belize, & Guatemala), and doing some demos for people. The gig was producing some songs on an album for an up-and-coming r&b artist's album. I was cut out for the hard work, but not the personality politics. It has dissuaded me from actively pursuing music for money. So, no dice. I love music and sound more than anything, but the gig involves too much scheming. arrg...

So, at 28, I'm at square one. I'm reasonably intelligent, have a near worthless degree, could probably score a 160-163 on the LSAT, have a silly, tile-counting, shape-rotating math brain, and have come to the decision that I need to make a healthy income of over $60,000/yr while in my 30's.

Looked at the old bls.gov website, especially the occupational outlook page. Should I get a JD in intellectual property rights? a BS in computer science? a library science degree? a career in forestry? WHAT THE HELL SHOULD I DO?

...and now I've started working as a legal researcher, and have an interview tomorrow as a game tester. Will the saga never end?

[Google Monster]

careers. whats that?? :P

[Heather Harrison]

I see a lot of career-jumping and indecision here. In a way, I am envious. Although I predominantly fit the INTP description, there is enough of the INTJ in me to allow me to be single-minded and goal-oriented on occasion. I am an electrical engineer (electromagnetics specialty); I have a Master's degree in the field. I sped through school (started college Fall 1988; B.S. Spring 1992; M.E. Winter 1994), paying little thought to choice of major, with a single-minded devotion towards finishing my degree. Looking back, I wish I had taken more time and checked out some other subjects. I declared my major when I was 17, and that is simply too young to make such a momentous decision. The job, while it pays well, is often too practical and mundane for me, especially when schedules and budgets are involved. There are some advantages, however. The company I work for rarely demands overtime (a great rarity in this field), and it pays well. The combination of leisure time and money leaves me free to pursue myriad other interests, so maybe it is not such a bad thing. I consider career change to be a possibility, but if I make a change, I will do so carefully. The problem here is that whatever I choose will probably become uninteresting in a few years and I will be back where I started, but probably with less money. I am an intellectual generalist in a society that demands specialization, and I see that most of the people posting here fit that description. It is little wonder that INTPs often have trouble deciding on careers.

Heather Harrison

[SensEye]

Good for you Heather. I found your post interesting in that I am also at the P/J border and like you I have a somewhat boring job that pays decent and demands few hours so I stick with it. I don't really understand the strong P's who jump around and as a result often live in poverty. But I guess the odd one finds their dream job on occasion.

[garak]

I see a lot of career-jumping and indecision here. In a way, I am envious.
Grass is always greener on the other side, eh? I'm envious of anyone that makes decent money and doesn't hate their job.

[Heather Harrison]

These days, I have come to the realization that developing the "J" part is a necessary evil for me; it brings the structure to life that is necessary to make a living. But the "J" part isn't natural; it can be a struggle to keep it up and I sometimes get depressed. I actually tested strongly "P" on my recent "official" MBTI, and I am beginning to think that stronger "J" results of earlier years were a reflection of what I thought I should be, and not what I actually was. I have tried to suppress the "P" element in the past, and I have now come to the conclusion that it just doesn't work. It seems reasonable to me that a suppressed or undeveloped "P" can result in a false "J" on these personality tests.

There are days when I hate my job and wish I could walk away, but I have followed the experiences of too many out-of-work transsexuals and I definitely don't want to end up like them - overt discrimination remains a serious problem for this minority group. The positive side of all this is, as I have mentioned, that the high-paying, non-demanding job leaves me with plenty of money and enough time to pursue lots of outside interests. The thought of working overtime scares the crap out of me; if I was forced into overtime for an extended period, it would shut down my intellectual growth and that would be like death to me. This is the primary reason why I have stayed in my job for more than 10 years and haven't tried working for another engineering company. Requirements of 60-hour weeks are all too common in this industry, and I am grateful that my employer doesn't demand that. If the day comes that this is demanded on a regular basis, it might be the trigger that brings my natural "P" element to the forefront and sends me out on the street.

I hope this doesn't happen; if I make a change, I want to do it on my own terms.

Heather Harrison

[Nighthawk]

I have a somewhat boring job that pays decent and demands few hours so I stick with it. I don't really understand the strong P's who jump around and as a result often live in poverty. But I guess the odd one finds their dream job on occasion.
That pretty much sums it up for me as well.

[ohnoaninfp]

I want to be a singer, and have something to do with art. I like to print, but I feel my best onstage singing.

[Star]

edit: I'll just start a new thread (someday, next week sounds good) asking for this advice; don't want to take this one off-topic.

[Thermo]

I was a history major and philosophy minor in college. I got out and sort of fell into computers. I worked my way up to a Network Engineer working mostly with Cisco hardware and I love it. I like the fact that computers are generally a meritocracy, don't require heavy social interaction, and that computers themselves are logical.

[s0978]

Yay, a happy camper!

I hope you get sent for new training every now and then. I always enjoyed that part of being technical.

[Salad]

um... well, i'm training as an architect now, so, i guess you've already done that. I would like to know why you didn't stick with it after getting your masters though, and where you got you masters. I figure I'll be pursuing an MArch after I finish up where I am now, I'll have to go somewhere else for it though, Cal Poly's going to shit.

[Thermo]

s0523:
"Yay, a happy camper!

I hope you get sent for new training every now and then. I always enjoyed that part of being technical."

I have been with my company for five years and recieved less than $3,000 in training. I got one class a few years ago, a couple books and two magazine subscriptions. I pretty much pay for my training out of pocket.

[codeElemental]

Got out of school in '03, and am currently doing the software engineer thing (oh, so shocking on this forum I see.) I'm not incredibly interested in what I'm doing at the moment, but the hours aren't terribly demanding, it pays the bills, and I'm funneling the tuition assistance towards an MS, so I can't complain.

I'm also blissfully kept away from people for the most part, which is the greatest gift a job could give. Now if I could just figure out how to be interested in my work again (that wore thin after about a year) I'd be all set.

[PonderBee]

I am a federal investigator. Not quite a happy camper ... money is good though.

[s0978]

I am a federal investigator.

What do you guys do? I think this is one of those things that always come up as a good career choice for me, and I have no idea what it entails.

[euterpenc]

Anyone know anything about crime scene investigation? It looks interesting to me. Or better yet, psychological crime investigation!

*psychoanalyses serial killer*
What fun!

[Star]

I've worked as a unix system administrator for about ten years, in about as many places. I still love the work and think that it is a perfect fit for my personality; it is satisfying to me in the way that I've seen a lot of people describe programming. The main difference is that I rarely have to create something from scratch, instead I must grasp complex computer systems (or whole networks of them) and reign them in, put them into a harmonious and reliable order.

The absolute worst part of this career is the work environments. I *despise* whole-floor-of-cubicle workspaces, and it's nearly impossible to get a job anywhere these days in a real office with a door. I absolutely cannot concentrate when there are 50-100 people around me chatting, talking on the phone, listening to music, stopping by my cube and making me jump out of my skin and breaking my concentration.

Working in overwhelmingly male environments can wear on me as well. Any woman thinking about going into IT should take this into consideration, I think. It was fun at first, kind of a "last woman at the end of the world, and all these men to choose from!" thing, but after a while it turns into "why do I hafta be the bitch?" (http://www.spunk.org/texts/anarcfem/sp000168.html)

[Tybeas]

Well I`m currently planning to go back to university in order to get a degree in business, finance to be more precise (but of course I changed and have time to change my mind about it a thousands times)

I`m currently working as a Customer Service Representative in a financial institution full time, speaking with hundreds of people, most of them stupid and not listening to what I say, doing a routine and non-challenging job.... do I need to say that I hate it ? But the pay is good so I force myself into it for now. And I`m also trying to get license to be a financial counselor... probably will also hate it but, pay is good and I should be able to finance my studies with it so... and of course that is if I don`t simply quit one day that I will have enough of this by then...

I also was a reserve infantry officer for a few years. Never had the chance to finish the training but still.... What I really enjoyed there were the nighttime where all you did was to walk and think in silence, kinda like the postman thing... But I got thrown out because I overthought too much about sovling a health problem and ended up doing nothing about it and got screwed for it.

One job I also liked was working in a gas station at night. If the pay was good I would probably still do it. No boss around, and a good 2-3 hours to do whatever you liked...

But heh I guess my dream job would be being a daytrader. Being your own boss, your own money, working from home, when you feel like it. This or starting my own businesses. But of course, it`s not the ideas that are lacking, just the drive to put them into application... :huh:

[s0978]

deepsky, nice link. I think we should have a thread called "why do I hafta be the bitch."

[s0978]

s0523:
I pretty much pay for my training out of pocket.

I think this is very, very wrong. Not only am I aware that getting cisco-certified is mofo hard, but it pains me because employers are benefitting, even profiting, by banking on your love of learning.

Once when I was arguing for the techs in my department to get sent to training on the company, the boss explicitly said to me, "Don't worry, these guys will teach themselves what they need to know off the clock."

However, it's partly our fault when this happens, you know. If everyone refused to pay for their own training, they'd have to pony up.

[jjt]

I have had a number of careers.
I started out as a nurse, during the first year of training I knew it wasn't me, but stuck out the three years and graduated as I thought it would be useful to have up my sleeve. (Not very INTP to finish, I now realise, but at 18 I still took on my fathers INTJ values - finishing what you start is very important). My motivation to be a nurse came from an interest in human biology, the practical job of nursing I found tedious.

I left that at 22 and started an interior / furniture design degree, specialising in furniture design. I was pretty good at it, yet found I didn't actually want to work designing furniture that was 'the same but a little bit different' to everything that had just been done in the furniture industry. I did finish the degree though.

I did a few design and nursing jobs and saved the money to travel to Engalnd and do what every Kiwi considers a necessary experience in life. "THE BIG OE" ('Overseas Experience') I spent a couple of years doing casual nursing jobs - it did indeed come in handy, and interpersed that with travel in USA, Canada, and Europe.
Bored of traveling, I got itchy to use my brain and found an area of design I fell in love with, used my medical and design background and did a Post Grad dip (in London) in designing equipment for people with disabilities. I worked full on in this area for almost 10 years back in NZ before getting bored.

I then tried architecture, did a few papers, not me, Fine Art, did a 1 1/2 years of a degree, again not me.

Then found a new passion in the world of nutrition. I self trained, started my own business, I now import product form the USA, have a mail order internet shop, run seminars and do one-on one consulting, and have designed a whole eating programme for a Gym franchise. Now I work part time and look after my two junior school kids, adopted from Russia.

Oh yeah, I also got into psychology and self development at one stage and used to do group self development seminars for large company.
I'm also kind of into investment properties and have got a small portfolio of rentals. (Superannuation plan)

I think thats it. :)

[jetboots]

Did an Environmental Engineering degree while doing Guiding in the wilderness every summer. Did sea kayak guiding for a bit after university. Then was a ski instructor/math tutor; a neat combo, I enjoyed that except for I couldnt really save too much cash....
Now I am a technical writer/ project engineer for a small environmental firm. However, the place is way too "S", and seeing as im 100% N, its definitly lathargic at times. however the ppl keep it quite interesting and entertaining.
Planning on going into GIS/SIS/statistics/urban planning next.

[s0978]

Wow jjt, did you get comfortable at making all those transitions? Was all that switching hard at first and then get progressively easier?

Incidentally, how does everyone feel with all this switching about? I dread the idea of continuing to switch, because I am horrible at seeking jobs... mostly I have taken the ones which have conveniently fallen into my lap. And I have never found employment through a Help Wanted ad, online or otherwise. Almost always luckily recommended.

[jjt]

Wow jjt, did you get comfortable at making all those transitions? Was all that switching hard at first and then get progressively easier?

If I look back there is a certain pattern to my interests, when at high school, my main interests and subjects in my final year were biology (particulary human biology) and fine art.
I was always doing some type of craft / art all through my childhood. I actually gained entry to a University art degree as well as entry to Nursing in year 12 at school. I thought art was somehow frivolous and didn't know where it would take me where as nursing seemed more useful.

After gaining my nursing qualification I knew that I needed to go and do an art type thing with a practical application, that took me to design.

The happy marriage of my medical and design interests had me be the most satisfied, and seemed like a logical progression.

The personal development came from doing a few courses, finding them incredibly useful and then becoming more and more involved with the organisation that ran them.

When I was confused and tried architecture and then fine art, it was an extesnion of my interests in a different field, again to me a logical progression as I found I had gone as far as I wanted to in designing for the disabled.

Nutrition: I guess thats a bit more left field but that kind of came out of nowwhere. I changed my diet after reading a few books, it made such a dramatic difference to my health and how I felt, that I became completely fascinated with the topic. I managed the transition to my own business by working part time at my previous job while getting my new business off the ground.

I've always been interested in property, partly from my interest in design. I just love working out what properties will work financially, and seeing if I can actually afford to borrow more money and make it work. I bought my first house at 22.

Hope that answers your question

[sammyburbank]

s0532-
I have jumped around in music more than people usually do. I went being a jazz sax player to being a classical/rock guitarist/composer to a pop/electronic/r&b producer, and am now looking to go in a total other direction. I found that all the skills I learned dovetailed quite nicely. In fact, it felt like i was learning *competence* *dedication* and *technology*, respectively, with each of the three basic jumps.

Every job I've ever had has fallen into my lap. That's not so bad... for instance I was considering law school, and the word got around, and a lawyer friend gave me a job researching. Certain jobs you get from just being thought of as versatile... and versatility seems like something INTPs have in spades.

[Darren]

I'm 35, doing my Master's in Economics. I have a BS in Computer Science and 9 years of experience as a programmer, but 85% of the time I hated it with an intensity ranging anywhere from "strong" to "manic". I hated making technology work and I had *NO* interest in learning new technology. None. What's that? VB 7.0 has version 2 RDO capability and can shoot JPEGs out of its XYZ? That's nice. Yawn. I liked the pure logic of applications and data however... unfortunately these days it's all about systems integration and so on. No thanks. Systems adminstrator? I'm glad other people like it. I'd shoot myself.

Ironically, I like messing around with computers in my course work (as economists go I'm a cracker-jack computer user, unfortunately as *programmers* go I'm mediocre).

Meanwhile, questions of public policy and economics have ALWAYS fascinated me. What's going on with the Argentinian default crisis? Is globalization a "good" thing or a "bad" thing? Stuff like that.

I decided that the "big, abstract system" I was REALLY interested in was the global economy! (Not trying to brag or anything, but I'm also pretty bright - GRE Q780 V800 for whatever that's worth, so I feel like I need to "aim high" if I'm going to be happy).

I can't say I like grad school though. It is INTENSELY mathematical (it's basically 100% mathematical modelling), and is very divorced from the institutional detail that I think is so important in order to understand what's going on. I think a lot of the models are total bullshit... they fall flat on their faces as soon as they are confronted with actual data but they survive in academe because they are mathematically pretty and elegant. What annoys me is that I can *see* the extensions that I think might make them better, more worthwhile models, (or at least more interesting), but there is a certain neo-classical, fascistic orthodoxy that has taken over economics, so the directions *I'd* like to take this in aren't going to get looked at.

I hope I like the real world better.

[indie]

It still bothers me on some levels to admit it, but perhaps the most fulfilling job I ever had was as a temporary letter carrier for the postal service. I spent the entire day walking, out in the world, in any weather, lost in thought, and the thousand daily glimpses into the private lives of complete strangers insured that I was never bored.

I can relate.

It still bothers me on some level to admit that one of my favorite jobs was as a waitress at this ski resort near where I used to live.

Waitress, I know, don't laugh . ..

In a way, it was actually very "chameleon-friendly" . . . being able to slip into a persona long enough to make some decent tips and (most importantly) having a more than a few of those "thousand daily glimpses" into the "private lives of complete strangers."

Currently, my career aspirations are all jumbled. In a way, I want to be able to leave work at work, and have my private time all to myself. But, at the same time, I want to be able to wake up and look forward to going to work.

It's a definite conundrum, one I hope to figure out one of these days.

[Boneca]

Did an Environmental Engineering degree while doing Guiding in the wilderness every summer. Did sea kayak guiding for a bit after university. Then was a ski instructor/math tutor; a neat combo, I enjoyed that except for I couldnt really save too much cash....
Now I am a technical writer/ project engineer for a small environmental firm. However, the place is way too "S", and seeing as im 100% N, its definitly lathargic at times. however the ppl keep it quite interesting and entertaining.
Planning on going into GIS/SIS/statistics/urban planning next.Your life sounds like a cool life. Technical writer is something I could do. And sea kayak guiding is not a job, it's a holiday.
If I hadn't found my place in zoo-ecology, I'd envy you.

[s0978]

I can't say I like grad school though. It is INTENSELY mathematical (it's basically 100% mathematical modelling), and is very divorced from the institutional detail that I think is so important in order to understand what's going on. I think a lot of the models are total bullshit... they fall flat on their faces as soon as they are confronted with actual data but they survive in academe because they are mathematically pretty and elegant. What annoys me is that I can *see* the extensions that I think might make them better, more worthwhile models, (or at least more interesting), but there is a certain neo-classical, fascistic orthodoxy that has taken over economics, so the directions *I'd* like to take this in aren't going to get looked at.

I hope I like the real world better.

But does it ever cross your mind to stay in the academic arena, perhaps to work on those mathematical models? Undoubtedly, you'll become more facile with the math, and perhaps the industry is ultimately better served when the models are divorced from the practice/ application?

[waxwing]

I sort of forget the original question. Hm.

Oh...careers.

I'm currently involoved in social work and I've been doing this at least on a volunteer basis for a few years now.

My other jobs were enjoyable for different reasons. When I waitressed I enjoyed observing how people interact and carry themselves. I liked trying to make tips by appearing relaxed and offering an occasional subtle joke or simply making eye contact. I liked squatting to talk to kids (still do) to take their orders.

I was a housekeeper for a little while. Again, interesting people, both customers and coworkers.

Camp counselor...yeah, liked the challenge of developing relationships with the kids I worked with.

I've done some "gigs" (musical). Fun, but I don't have the same opportunity anymore.

I taught a writing class to eight 6th graders.

I worked at a "family fun park" -- batting cages, mini golf, kiddie land, gocarts, icecream, arcade. That was actually my first official job.

Career aspirations? It's a hard question. I don't know if I have a real goal, but I think I'll probably go back for my masters at some point. Something related to public policy/philosophy of education, perhaps. I've looked into MFA programs too in fiction writing/playwriting. This is probably something I'll always kind of want to pursue. At one point I thought I'd probably go for a social work degree, but I think I'd rather keep this as an interest and a volunteer field (even though I've been paid for it for almost three years now).

[s0978]

I have jumped around in music more than people usually do. I went being a jazz sax player to being a classical/rock guitarist/composer to a pop/electronic/r&b producer, and am now looking to go in a total other direction. I found that all the skills I learned dovetailed quite nicely. In fact, it felt like i was learning *competence* *dedication* and *technology*, respectively, with each of the three basic jumps.

Every job I've ever had has fallen into my lap. That's not so bad... for instance I was considering law school, and the word got around, and a lawyer friend gave me a job researching. Certain jobs you get from just being thought of as versatile... and versatility seems like something INTPs have in spades.

dovetailing, huh? I guess that's what jjt is describing too...

I don't think of my different incarnations as dovetailing, even if my experience with one helped qualify me for the latter. And my transitions have not been smooth, they seem to usually involve me sitting around unemployed for months at a time. I'm impressed by the people who seem to take the transitions in stride, because I usually get sort of anxious. I do know that I'm versatile and competent, but hard for me to be comfortable with the idea that I may be continually swapping. Any advice from you smooth shifters?

[jread]

GIS/SIS/statistics/urban planning next.

I have been in GIS for 7 years now and had considered going into Urban Planning as it's VERY fascinating to me. However, once I learned just how political planning really is it turned me off from it. I've decided to stay in the GIS world for now, working toward being an application developer or a database admin. for a GIS database (SDE).

[indie]

Anyone know anything about crime scene investigation? It looks interesting to me. Or better yet, psychological crime investigation!

*psychoanalyses serial killer*
What fun!

Yeah, I used to be semi-obsessed with that true-crime "mind of a serial killer" and FBI profiling stuff. I read every Ann Rule (http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/ann_rule/1.html) book and true crime book I could get my hands on . . . her book The Stranger Beside Me (about Ted Bundy) was very fascinating and frightening. The book on the Zodiac Killer (http://www.zodiackiller.com/) was also very good. If you're interested, I'd also recommend books by John Douglas (http://www.johndouglasmindhunter.com/noflash.htm). His Inside the Mind of a Killer series was very cool. Though, it's probably not a good idea to start reading that stuff if you're paranoid at all. :)

[s0978]

I have been in GIS for 7 years now and had considered going into Urban Planning as it's VERY fascinating to me. However, once I learned just how political planning really is it turned me off from it. I've decided to stay in the GIS world for now, working toward being an application developer or a database admin. for a GIS database (SDE).

ESRI? MapGuide? I know a few guys doing customized solutions, and they make PLENTY of cash, and work only intermittently. Though they're probably spending lots of "personal time" honing their skills. The business aspect is tricky, though, they need serious salespeople to get the contracts. But great up-and-coming field, methinks.

[Roger]

I studied Physics then did a post graduade in Chemical Engineering. I lovedPhysics but there was too much chaos in the Physics course and I really like to understand things well or not at all. In Engineering I realised that of them the Electronic engineers had the most brain. I respect them a lot ..but I am not really into gadgets and computers like they are.

After I finished studying I started working as a business consultant for marketing and risk departements of Insurance companies and Retailers. I now have my own business consultancy together with an ENTP business partner. We have one employee besides us. I do like the job.. however we always have to come in the back door and work our way up .. Sometimes the big gorilla companies take the best contracts away from us by playing golf with the big bosses and all the hard work we did before gets left unappreciated....

[jread]

ESRI? MapGuide? I know a few guys doing customized solutions, and they make PLENTY of cash, and work only intermittently. Though they're probably spending lots of "personal time" honing their skills. The business aspect is tricky, though, they need serious salespeople to get the contracts. But great up-and-coming field, methinks.

ESRI for me. I do think some of the others may be better but ESRI has the monopoly and is good at selling their products. Kinda like Micro$oft :D

[FactsDontMatter]

This is all fascinating. I had expected to find an INTP forum to be loaded up with scientists and engineers with all manner of higher education. That shows you how much I know. Of course, this is an unscientific sampling consisting of INTPs (and others) who seek community in web forums, so it may be hazardous to generalize from it. ;)

I was trained as an engineer (Masters), and always knew I would be one. I planned no alternatives. Later I added an MBA, and now I really wish I had a PhD in something expansive such as Public Policy or Economics. That may all sound very conventional, but I have always been a square peg no matter where I have worked. Among true engineers I’m a right-brained wild academic with an unusual sense of aesthetics. Among artists, I’m an engineer with two left brains and no sense of anything more than symmetry. Economists sometimes mistake me for an economist (which delights me). Using and programming computers comes easy to me. I sometimes say that I drive Microsoft Office for a living. But what I do with it is synthesis, and I’ll bet any INTP can be good at that in some field.

[A quick aside: After I finished my engineering Masters thesis, I became embarrassed about it. I mean, it was, well, obvious, wasn’t it? Is this like anybody we know? ;)]

The only thing that has ever saved me has been finding a cutting edge. In college, it was the cutting edge of my knowledge rather than the cutting edge of my field. Once I left college and tried to be conventional, though, I ran into trouble. I didn’t really care about what I was doing initially; there was no spark, nothing new. Eventually I started moving into areas where there were many things to learn. What I discovered in the new areas was that the people doing the work-a-day jobs in those areas didn’t really understand what they were doing. They could do their jobs just fine, but they had no appreciation for the theory that their work was based on, and they were likely to err if they ever had to deal with change. So, I would become the theoretician, able to generalize and build new tools and connections, but with no patience for actually doing the work. This was mistaken for conventional leadership skills, but I quickly proved that wrong. ;) And, of course, once I had mastered the theory, I was aware of its shortcomings, became philosophical about it, and didn’t believe in it enough to actually do it any more. Hmmm… time to move on…

Eventually I worked my way to the cutting edge of the industry. Rather, I should say that I drifted toward the cutting edge. I was passive about it, sometimes desperate and depressed. The cutting edge was where I naturally thought I should be, but Geez, nobody was asking my opinion! What fools these mortals be! ;) The saving grace was always having one or two conventional people who understood my difference, who were willing to drag me into novel situations that were difficult to figure out. I eventually came face-to-face with the cutting edge. It has been my motivation ever since.

At the cutting edge, you are at a place where all kinds of smart people are trying to figure out what comes next, how to solve the problems at the edge. I think this is where an INTP should want to be, standing at the edge of knowledge or technology trying to look beyond, trying to synthesize some new insight out of the “adjacent possible” that doesn’t quite exist yet and isn’t plainly visible. The work-a-day workers don’t want to be there, and rare is the manager who has any use for such academic exercises. Yes, you ARE a square peg; now go over there with the other square pegs and do something you’re good at: figuring things out. That is not just finding things that are new, but synthesizing things or ideas that don’t yet exist.

I have been extremely fortunate to have been swept into my current position by people who tolerated my quirks. I can’t say that I actively sought it, but it started working for me when, well beyond my mid-30s, I decided that I should stop trying to fit into standardized slots. I think I could have saved myself a lot of grief had I understood myself a lot sooner. As for you young people, you are armed with that knowledge at what seems to me to be a very early age. In a way I envy you, but I think I recognize some very familiar despair…

[sammyburbank]

dovetailing, huh? I guess that's what jjt is describing too...

I don't think of my different incarnations as dovetailing, even if my experience with one helped qualify me for the latter. And my transitions have not been smooth, they seem to usually involve me sitting around unemployed for months at a time. I'm impressed by the people who seem to take the transitions in stride, because I usually get sort of anxious. I do know that I'm versatile and competent, but hard for me to be comfortable with the idea that I may be continually swapping. Any advice from you smooth shifters?

Just let me say that, if someone had handed me a lasting gig in any of those fields I had worked in, that paid well, I would not have jumped to something else so desperately. My shifts always involve a great deal of stress and panic, until I land in something. I just make myself feel better by remembering what I've done in the past and who I am.

[s0978]

At the cutting edge, you are at a place where all kinds of smart people are trying to figure out what comes next, how to solve the problems at the edge. I think this is where an INTP should want to be, standing at the edge of knowledge or technology trying to look beyond, trying to synthesize some new insight out of the “adjacent possible” that doesn’t quite exist yet and isn’t plainly visible. The work-a-day workers don’t want to be there, and rare is the manager who has any use for such academic exercises. Yes, you ARE a square peg; now go over there with the other square pegs and do something you’re good at: figuring things out. That is not just finding things that are new, but synthesizing things or ideas that don’t yet exist. …

I hate to gush, but this is the most inspiring shit I've ever read.

[s0978]

... My shifts always involve a great deal of stress and panic, until I land in something. I just make myself feel better by remembering what I've done in the past and who I am.

Thanks for that - when people make it seem easy, I have to say I get kinda uneasy...

[s0978]

Uh...for the record, I am NOT playing hostess here...

http://forums.intpcentral.com/showpost.php?p=60840&postcount=30

just I am currently obsessed with "what should I do with my life now that I've grown up"?

[garak]

I hate to gush, but this is the most inspiring shit I've ever read.
I was thinking the exact same thing.

[Sackanaka]

Great moral support for career path development (or begrudging trudging in some cases) but it has also left me a bit disappointed in that
are there no pharmacists? :/
I've read a few times that pharmacy/pharmaceutical research is one of the interests of INTP but there hasn't been one yet. Since that's what I'm looking into getting a degree in, I'm quite worried that perhaps it isn't a good choice. (then again not many are, apparently, unless you're at the 'cutting edge'). I wish I could get there.
I suppose it's asking too much for reassurance that pharmacy, or any other field will 'all work out' in the end. Gotta work hard to get there too. I hope one day I can have bragging rights over developing the superpill that deals with colds, flus, cancer and impotency.

oh yes, and like the others who liked working for the PO or coffee shop, I found working at a research lab just to fill up mice cages and stacking them up strangely blissful.
That and I too wish I could be some kind of great singer or actor :D

[jjt]

just I am currently obsessed with "what should I do with my life now that I've grown up"?

You know I have been in the same position so many times!
My best advice is start something. I read a wonderful little book many years ago that pointed out that the people who found what they loved in life moved through careers faster than any one else and tried things more often than anyone else (on average).
This inspired me. Some things I tried were just not me, even though I was good at them, like fine art. Now I have out that baby to rest, but it would have always have had a niggling question, 'maybe i should be an artist' if I hadn't tried it.

A good workbook to work out what you're good at is "What colour is your parachute" A good way to figure out the things you love and the things you're good at and combine them into a career.

I believe the worst thing you can do is sit around and try to figure it out. Best in my view choose something, give it a go, if you dont like it, leave and move on. Go with your gut, your heart and what you think you will love. It may not be right, it may be a stepping stone to something you like. Either way you're one step closer.

[jjt]

Great moral support for career path development (or begrudging trudging in some cases) but it has also left me a bit disappointed in that
are there no pharmacists? :/
I've read a few times that pharmacy/pharmaceutical research is one of the interests of INTP but there hasn't been one yet. Since that's what I'm looking into getting a degree in, I'm quite worried that perhaps it isn't a good choice. (then again not many are, apparently, unless you're at the 'cutting edge'). I wish I could get there.
I suppose it's asking too much for reassurance that pharmacy, or any other field will 'all work out' in the end. Gotta work hard to get there too. I hope one day I can have bragging rights over developing the superpill that deals with colds, flus, cancer and impotency.

:D

I think being a pharmacist or researcher would be fascinating, don't be put off that there is no-one here doing that. I wish there was another nutritionist on this forum as I find that whole area of changing human health with diet and supplements to be highly rewarding and fascinating. In fact I would love to get into dietary reseach some time. At the moment experiementing on my clients with different combinations and seeing wonderful results is fun.

If you love it go with it. Its got all the right combinations for an INTP, research, science, problem solving, practical application, new projects.

[FactsDontMatter]

I believe the worst thing you can do is sit around and try to figure it out. Best in my view choose something, give it a go, if you dont like it, leave and move on. Go with your gut, your heart and what you think you will love. It may not be right, it may be a stepping stone to something you like. Either way you're one step closer.
Bingo! But trying to figure it out is (dangerously) what we're inclined to do. I think we have lots of self-destructive natural tendencies [esp. in the corporate world] that we can overcome if we understand them. BY ALL MEANS GO with your gut and your heart. That's the only way that things are going to click for you. But the important word is GO.

It may not be directly related to your current job, but there is an interest out there that floats your boat. Let it be your motivation, at least as long as it lasts. [If nothing interests you and you're not learning something new, then go see a doctor. You're depressed, and medication would do wonders.] There may be quite a bit to learn before you find your own "cutting edge."

And, thanks for the nice comments.

[Darren]

But does it ever cross your mind to stay in the academic arena, perhaps to work on those mathematical models? Undoubtedly, you'll become more facile with the math, and perhaps the industry is ultimately better served when the models are divorced from the practice/ application?

I've thought about it, and in fact that was to keep that option open that I chose the path I chose. But I've asked around... I'm too old (I'd be pushing 40 once I had the big degree) and I'd never get hired anywhere. And I've gotten a good look at teaching: I don't want to teach (because I don't always believe what I'd be expected to teach).

Darren

[Darren]

I hate to gush, but this is the most inspiring shit I've ever read.

I have to concur, although when he says "now go over there...." I can't quite see where he's pointing ..... :)

[Bugeater]

I believe the worst thing you can do is sit around and try to figure it out. Best in my view choose something, give it a go, if you dont like it, leave and move on. Go with your gut, your heart and what you think you will love. It may not be right, it may be a stepping stone to something you like. Either way you're one step closer.
I agree. I've been sitting around in a job I hate for three years and I'm just now getting around to asking myself, "Why the hell are you stuck here in the mud, just spinning your tires?"

I'm in the process of making a list of the jobs I might like (it's a very short list), and getting ready to try one of them. First up, horse wrangler. Go ahead, laugh. ;P

[PsiKik]

I'm in the process of making a list of the jobs I might like (it's a very short list), and getting ready to try one of them. First up, horse wrangler. Go ahead, laugh. ;P

Not laughing. I often think my ideal job would be a
park ranger or mountain guide.

[Bugeater]

I think my dream job would be acting...but I'm so introverted that I'm scared to even try that one. It's weird seeing how many of the people here have jobs dealing with computers. I've never been interested in programming or anything like that, even though I'm on the computer all the time. All of my career interests have been geared towards things in the arts and entertainment/travel and leisure categories. Then again, I guess working with computers would be on someone's fun list.

[Darren]

Bingo! But trying to figure it out is (dangerously) what we're inclined to do. I think we have lots of self-destructive natural tendencies [esp. in the corporate world] that we can overcome if we understand them. BY ALL MEANS GO with your gut and your heart. That's the only way that things are going to click for you. But the important word is GO.


Unfortunately, when deciding whether to go back to school or not, trying to figure it out is a very necessary activity. In the workplace, you can just wing it with something new without overanalyzing the decision, and quit if it's a poor fit. That's not so easy when you've gone back to school.

[FactsDontMatter]

Unfortunately, when deciding whether to go back to school or not, trying to figure it out is a very necessary activity. In the workplace, you can just wing it with something new without overanalyzing the decision, and quit if it's a poor fit. That's not so easy when you've gone back to school.
Point taken. It's tough to generalize accurately. There are certainly tough decisions for a person to make.

Was it you who felt that 40 was too old to get another degree? [I'm too lazy to look back... but stepping up on my soap box anyway. Humor me...] Maybe because of my age that seems plenty young for an advanced degree. I actually considered going back a couple of years ago, when i was between jobs. It was only the inability to take the financial hit that stopped me, and I'd still take a good-paying opportunity to do it. But notice: I was between jobs, to put it nicely, for a year. I was hired at 50. What it takes to get hired as an anciano is expertise, and expertise is something that an INTP can build. Advanced degrees can help us, I think, because they establish our expertise with a visible badge. We need that, because we're not particularly good at "selling" our expertise otherwise.

Having sat in a courtroom watching a stream of PhD "expert" witnesses go by saying silly things... it was almost more than I could take. ;) And even more recently I published a paper for a client, but the client required that I have some contribution from a PhD to sanctify the work. It's enough to piss off an INTP, no? And it wasn't that the client didn't trust me, it was that the paper was intended for a non-technical audience. They needed to see the badge.

Stepping down off my box...

[Nighthawk]

I've thought about it, and in fact that was to keep that option open that I chose the path I chose. But I've asked around... I'm too old (I'd be pushing 40 once I had the big degree) and I'd never get hired anywhere. And I've gotten a good look at teaching: I don't want to teach (because I don't always believe what I'd be expected to teach).
DarrenDon't let age stop you Darren. My wife went back for her masters and is finishing up now at age 46. She's positioned to do quite well when she gets out of school. I'm giving serious thought to starting with a PhD program, and I'm 43. Of course, getting a degree in a field that is hiring might be important.

["InsertNameHere"]

currently a sophmore in college and thinking of becoming an accountant (aka working for a few years then quiting at age 40, after having a mental break down)...hehe! Considering that i couldn't think of anything i wanted to do, it was the easiest thing i could think of, other than becoming a doctor... man, i should just quit spending money on an expensive out-of-state university and just go to community college at home

[zomicon]

Wow. How interesting to see so many others just like me. I found this site after going to a career counselor and taking the Meyers-Briggs. I took it in high school and came up with the same result.... I am currently in enterprise technology sales (although it doesn't suit me, hence the career change). The beginning part of the job was great: learning about the architecture of the systems, builiding business cases, etc. Now I am mired in the tedium of cold-calling and pushing people to call me back.

I have done a lot of exploration both in the world and in my own self and I have yet to find anything that feels like I could do it over the long haul. I have been a construction worker, bartender, sommelier, web developer, salesperson and a literature professor in training. I started a Ph. D. but dropped early and took my masters. I can't decide if it was the subject matter (lit), the program, or the reality of a professorship that scared me away. Although I am a bit lost in terms of a new career path, I do feel like I enjoyed the university setting most -- so much to learn and keep occupied with, and a lot of interesting people.

One of the INTP profiles I read suggested that we get along very well with eachother, and I think that is the case. I would imagine that INTPs make up a goodly portion of the professors in the world (anyone have any data about that?). I felt the most at home there... I do differ from the profile though, as I seem to work best in small groups as opposed to alone.

I also agree that the computer science field is a good choice for INTPs. I didn't do "real" programming (mostly database to web page interactions) but I was fascinating by the complex architectures of the software packages and server modules.

Maybe I am just not destined to find *one* thing, but will continue to dabble, learn, and move around. I could imagine a much worse life than that!

[Nighthawk]

One of the INTP profiles I read suggested that we get along very well with eachother, and I think that is the case. I would imagine that INTPs make up a goodly portion of the professors in the world (anyone have any data about that?). I felt the most at home there... I do differ from the profile though, as I seem to work best in small groups as opposed to alone.
I read somewhere (possibly one of David Keirsey's books) that university professors tend to be NTs or NFs ... as there is a lot of abstract thought involved. SJs often go for a bachelors, and possibly an MBA. SPs usually don't place much value on formal eduacation.

[Whynot]

Hello,

I was a Technical Sales Rep for the Paint Finishing Industry and found myself burnned out as many of you can all relate to. Sales is obviously not the best area for an INTP, however the technical side helped to balance things out a bit. I was laid off in 2001 and stayed at home with the kids for 3 years. I decided to make a career change and experienced the same problems associated with selecting a career that would sustain my interest and still give me some flexability in my life.


About a year and a half ago I responded to a buisness opportunity ad on the internet. I figured Why Not? I'll bite and see what it's about. The next day sure enough I get a call and this guy wants to meet me at a Star Bucks and "Interview" me. I accepted his invitation to meet with him. I pretty much new what to expect because I had been approached by AmWay and other MLM programs before and each time I shut them down and told them that "those things" don't work. I wanted to get out of the house anyway and I figured it would be a free cup of coffee and some good INTP analytical fun.

To my surprise this man showed me a very logical business model. Something that I had not seen with any of these other MLM companies. This one made sense. I drilled this man with questions for almost 3 hours. We INTP's can be very analytical can't we? To say the least I signed up and found a new interest that fits perfectly well within my INTP personality traits. What I realized is that I didn't know what I didn't know about the MLM or Referral Marketing industry. The MLM Marketing concept is quite clever and very logical. If you can lay down your ego long enough to investigate it I think you will see the samething. My wife and I both enjoy the industry the money potential, social enviroment, and personal developement. If your an INTP that can cultivate relationships than this maybe something for you to consider. I now sling produce during the day while supplementing the rest of my income with our home based business. It's nice not to have to deal with office politics, long commutes, idiots, and most importantly my work stays at work when I go home.


Wishing you all success,

Jeff

[Darren]

To my surprise this man showed me a very logical business model. Something that I had not seen with any of these other MLM companies. This one made sense. I drilled this man with questions for almost 3 hours. We INTP's can be very analytical can't we? To say the least I signed up and found a new interest that fits perfectly well within my INTP personality traits. What I realized is that I didn't know what I didn't know about the MLM or Referral Marketing industry.

You realize, of course, that many of us will find it difficult to believe that this post is intended solely as a disinterested piece of advice and solidarity from one INTP to others.

Darren

[FactsDontMatter]

You realize, of course, that many of us will find it difficult to believe that this post is intended solely as a disinterested piece of advice and solidarity from one INTP to others.

Darren
Well said. Not only that, but I have seen this post almost ver batim before, elsewhere in this forum. I'm not buyin' it either, Darren. Oh, I guess you were nicer than that...

[Hustler]

PLACE-HOLDER FOR CLASSIC STATUS

[djm]

I took a degree in applied biology, I just drifted into university as I couldn't decide what to do. When there I was quite good at it, but constantly in trouble and consequently nearly got turfed out on multiple occasions.

I can't say I worked very hard, I spent most of the time studying what interested me rather than what I was meant to learn. I also spent a lot of time arguing with the lecturers when I felt what they were teaching was wrong.

When I left it was in the middle of a recession and I struggled to get work. I ended up working at the bottom scale in a research institute. I found the work extremely frustrating as I had little or no control over what I had to do and was managed by idiots. The research areas were also not very inspiring.

I then took a job working for a european subsidary of a US fertiliser manafacturer as a technical officer. This post was OK as I was left to m own devices a lot of the time. The company had been run into the ground by incompetent management, and it did not take me long to rise up the ladder. I quit to do Agronomy work (advising farmers for Dalgety) but was made redundant and ended up doing some warehouse work and allsorts for a while.

Then the US company re-mployed me, and I was made MD when the owner potted the American who had been running the business. It was a baptism of fire as the company was in a real mess and was trading insolvent. I restructured the business, and working with inovancy practitioners got the business in profit and reduced debts down from >$1m to $100k. When the owner (a millionaire) refused to put in the $100k and wanted me to 'phoenix' the business to dump the debt I quit on principle.

This left me unemployed and not likely to get a good reference, so in many ways I forced into starting up myself. I remortgaged and went into business supplying specialty fertilisers into the Middle East through contacts I had made. I had always thought the industry was not very innovative, and invented a couple of new types of fertiliser which formed the basis of my business. I funded mainly through private 'business angel funding at this stage'.

This work has been good to me, as it is unstructured, chaotic and lets me study what I feel like. When I had ideas for new types of pesticide chemistry (using chemicals extracted from plants) I needed a lot more cash - this led to bringing in VC funding specific to developing a pesticide and another idea I had for abiotic stress tolerance.

The science end of this second business was very successful yielding a successful patent application and a product that outperforms Bayers largest selling product in field trials. The other project they funded has more potential but will take me a few more years yet to see it through.

To get that product on the market, I needed to raise more finance (several million) to fund the registration process. This involved merging the two companies and putting together a board to satisfy the whims of the stock market.

Being a PLC has been a very underwhelming experience for me, it has given me paper wealth and the ability to see my products through to registration and into the market. However by the time things get this far I am bored with them and I am not inclined to put more ip into a business that in effect is not mine any more. Also I do not like working with the financial institutions which I have an instinctive detestation for.

I enjoy science / inventing, and would recommend this to any INTP as a career. But it needs to be done in an atmosphere of freedom, PLCs do not offer this. My current aim is to realise the potential of the seven patents (either granted or pending) I have put into the business, and hopefully this should leave the share price healthy enough for me to set up my next venture with my own capital. This needs to be done on good terms however or I will never be allowed to operate in the UK by the financial institutions.

When I started out I was considered a bit of a crackpot, without a track record and without very good accademic credentials. These days I am taken more seriously in the industry and also accademia. Next time around I will find it a lot easier, and should not have to work with brain dead marketing people and accountants forced on me.

I do not think I could ever have done well in a large corporation, as I have an 'attitude problem' from an employers perspective. Indeed to a certain extent I am unemployable, I am fortunate in that I have been able to create a world that I can function in. With a little less luck in different circumstances I could easily have ended up on the scrapheap.

One of the earlier posters mentioned that INTPs need to be operating at the 'cutting edge' - I wholeheartedly agree, it's our natural place. I have had a little luck in getting into into a position where I can do this, and have been able to build a team of people I like that can manage and finish projects through to completion allowing me to operate conceptually which is what I am good at.

[Jen]

I'm the MD/CEO of Limey Inc. and a hair & makeup stylist :)

[Tayshaun]

Not laughing. I often think my ideal job would be a
park ranger or mountain guide.

It's a nice fit for a 5w4 or 4w5. Solitary, observational, peaceful, organismic, asceticism with freedom. A transcendentalist's dream come true. I have also considered this option for a while, answering the call of nature and "simplicity".

From a developmental standpoint though, can this lifestyle pull the INTP far enough from his introverted haven to develop inferior functions? I would guess it's an amazingly enriching lifestyle but it should not be sustained for several decades. Rubbing with the Fe side of things is necessary at some point in life.

[Oculus Sinister]

thinking about going into psychology, but i dont know if an INTP is fit for listening to people pour their hearts out and helping people with their problems. actually, i dont think i am. i actually just want to study psychology, but you also have to make money.

Hey. :stupid: Do your research. There are more jobs out there for Psychology than having someone sit on the couch. Neuro science?

[hippo]

1. Fast food (including customer service!!)
2. Software testing

Aspiring to:
X. Composing and playing music

[NoMind]

I actually don't have a career at the moment, or have any clue what i would do if i had to get one. But i'm on track to get a master's in american history, and i'm still toying with the idea of going on to get a Ph.D. To be honest though, i have no clue what i'm going to do with the degree other than teach, or become a museum curator. The only reason i went on to a graduate program in history is because i had no clue what to do once i graduated with a degree in general studies. Indecision has dominated my life...

[tarkman1]

Right now, I'm doing systems engineering. It's pretty well suited for me because I can see dependencies and interworkings between subsystem that are necessary for the whole to operate. It's boring though.

I helicopters in the Navy after getting an engineering degree. I'm probably 55% P and 45% J. I'm decisive when I must be. After the Navy, I got an MBA with a Finance emphasis. I'm looking for the opportunity to switch from the current job. I quit the job to ski last winter and actually came back to it. I'm done again this winter unless I can work one week on and one week off.

I'm treading the line between something that pays well, is pretty easy, and allows me some flexibility to come and go (it's often done on a contract basis). Still, the environment doesn't challenge me or interest me. That's the main reason while I'll walk away from it. What next? Something that draws on my full array of skills. No single position that I've had thus far even comes close.

[Kathara]

I am a linguist (the job), I specialise in literary theory and I hope to be a writer. I also plan on grabbing a BA in archeology.

My first dream job was that of an astronomer. I was 4. Other aspirations include horse shoer, and brain surgeon.

[Miryst00]

I really hate all my jobs. Can't find a good fit. Makes me depressed. Thoughts?

[pan_sonic_000]

< sound artist. I make badass sounds for video games and art installations. You may have even heard some of my weapons and monster voices.

No, I'm not going to tell you which games or which company I now work for since I don't want my work identity associated with things I've typed here.

[Limey]

< sound artist. I make badass sounds for video games and art installations. You may have even heard some of my weapons and monster voices.

No, I'm not going to tell you which games or which company I now work for since I don't want my work identity associated with things I've typed here.

How did you come up with that really juicy noise when you get a frag in one
I'd have thought only a girl could have made that one :)

[OnAnIsland]

Sound Engineer, Musician and Web Developer.

[daseinmind]

Software Architect, living the dream baby! Of course I was introduced to a potential new hire as the "Local Development God" which I was thinking about having put on my business cards.

[aiur]

Network/System Operator for an big oil company's upstream, downstream, midrange, tandem, MVS, SAP & non SAP networks/systems.

[TONE381]

research

[damagedxtravert.intp]

I m starting med school

[gardnerj]

I came into school as a Math major, then a friend asked me what I'm gonna do with my life, and I said, "sit in a cubicle and figure shit out." 10 minutes later I switched to Music Ed. That was second semester. Going into second year, a part of me still wants to go back.

I get bored a lot. Music Ed is boring. Parts of it are very SJ. Follow this teaching procedure. Play this instrument like this. Oh well, I may go back for math or something. The conclusion I've gotten from all of this is that every job is exactly that--a job. Changing the lives of kids is always going to be rewarding.

[karenk]

thinking about going into psychology, but i dont know if an INTP is fit for listening to people pour their hearts out and helping people with their problems. actually, i dont think i am. i actually just want to study psychology, but you also have to make money.

I still think a thinking type could be a better psychologist working with people. I tried seeing a psychologist once and I could tell he was a feeling type. It was the worst for a few reasons. After one visit I cancelled future appointments and he called-sounded mad and wanted to know why I wasn't continuing therapy with him. He wouldn't get off the phone. Detached analysis is much better.

I have a BA in anthropology (cultural). It was fun to study. It's no career. So my favorite job was temping at a library. I was more than preoccupied watching the patrons. (I'm sure creeped them out).

[Ferrus]

Changing the lives of kids is always going to be rewarding.
Changing it for what? So they can sit in a cubicle like everyone else?

[fripping]

i cut grass and pick up dog shit for ten big ones an hour. you know, because i really had to try it firsthand to check if i would love it or not.

if i can finish this month without doing anything rash like taking a weedwhacker to my supervisor's genitals i'll get a raise of an undisclosed amount under 50 cents.

not that i've had a lot, but the saddest part is this is the best job i've ever had.

[Limey]

i cut grass and pick up dog shit for ten big ones an hour. you know, because i really had to try it firsthand to check if i would love it or not.

if i can finish this month without doing anything rash like taking a weedwhacker to my supervisor's genitals i'll get a raise of an undisclosed amount under 50 cents.

not that i've had a lot, but the saddest part is this is the best job i've ever had.

Just let the grass cutting device take care of the dog poo, things in nature have a way of balancing themselves out like that. Think of it as the sunbather/dog poo equilibrium.

//pay it forward

[Mya]

I'm studying Computer Science now, not sure if I want to program or work with 3D computer graphics. I like both options a lot.

[eyebyte_atWork]

Careers?

WTF is that?

The days are adding up in life - and I realize that dreams are nothing. The things you want to do are not at all what you end up doing. I was supposed to do one great thing - change the world - solve problems - and become the best. What I do is nothing but created billable hours.

Careers - shit.

I am reaching the age between where dreams live and die. Time is not my friend and neither are most people. This is a prison where the cell walls are a story line designed to keep a person in check. Every now and then I wake up long enough to know this. Soon, I fear, I will be unable to wake up at all - doomed to living the American dream. Pay taxes, pay the goddamn mortgage, be happy to have a manicured lawn, and have the faint memory of potential lost - alla Harrison Bergeron.

Maybe I need anti-depressants.

Ok - more literally - Currently I write software. I am considered good at it by peers and management. In this day and age mediocrity passes for excellence unlike in the Japanese culture. I hate writing software.

[Nighthawk]

I am reaching the age between where dreams live and die.


Just wait another 10 years ... it gets even better.



Maybe I need anti-depressants.


I just came off of those. I think I need them back.

Lets go get a beer.

[starla]

Careers?

WTF is that?

The days are adding up in life - and I realize that dreams are nothing. The things you want to do are not at all what you end up doing. I was supposed to do one great thing - change the world - solve problems - and become the best. What I do is nothing but created billable hours.

Careers - shit.

I am reaching the age between where dreams live and die. Time is not my friend and neither are most people. This is a prison where the cell walls are a story line designed to keep a person in check. Every now and then I wake up long enough to know this. Soon, I fear, I will be unable to wake up at all - doomed to living the American dream. Pay taxes, pay the goddamn mortgage, be happy to have a manicured lawn, and have the faint memory of potential lost - alla Harrison Bergeron.

Maybe I need anti-depressants.

Ok - more literally - Currently I write software. I am considered good at it by peers and management. In this day and age mediocrity passes for excellence unlike in the Japanese culture. I hate writing software.

Now I want to kill myself.

Thanks, eyebyte!

[eyebyte_atWork]

Now I want to kill myself.

Thanks, eyebyte!

Glad to be of service.

My above rant is a combination of a few things - they are:

1. Coming off of alcohol - I have reduced my intake drastically.
2. Getting older and feeling it.
3. Tasting life and realizing that I did not make lemon-aid - but shit-aid.
4. Seeing my mother start her death struggle as my father before her.
5. Seeing my family ripped apart - including a daughter who does not to visit me anymore.
6. Realizing that most of the people around me are leeches.
7. Realizing that society loves slaves and punishes non-slaves.

Nothing to get depressed over - its just life.

And I know - I am the only one who can makes changes. It's just a rant.

[Limey]

None of it would be worth having if it didn't make you feel that way as a side-effect.