INTP Central = Omniverse Union

[s0978]

I'm starting this new thread in response to Ascending's last post in "Unrealistic Expectations." There's probably a better forum for this, but I can't think where, and putting it in "Psych" adds to continuity anyway.

In my mind, INTP Central is the HQ of Omniverse Union. ("Omniverse Union" sounds pretty random to me, but who cares.) For me, an affiliation within an affiliation is rational if there's a focused project, or cause, or agenda. So if anyone is willing to indulge me in this thread, I want to pretend that we have an Omniverse Union, and I want to propose an agendum.

It is to design (and potentially even develop!) careers for INTPs. In the various threads about careers and aspirations here, I detect some disgruntlement about the availability of ideal INTP careers, or our unsuitability to traditional careers, or at least there's a tone of resignation about the probability that we'll eventually get bored with a job track and will need to switch... (Probably I am exaggerating because I'm projecting, but you can of course call me on it if you think so.)

I'm not sure if I'm making any sense, but I'm going to keep going. What I'd personally like for us to do together is to help each other create ideal careers for ourselves. Careers that don't exist yet. I believe they don't exist yet because we're a marginalized minority, and because we tend not to implement. We all intuitively know, at least in the abstract, that our strengths are valuable to society. Yet "society" (I know, I know, the logic isn't so rigorous here, I'm throwing abstractions around) doesn't provide established, tried and true tracks for us - and that chafes my ass. Sure, if I'd stayed with my software consulting track, I'd still be making a nice fat salary, possibly enough to cover the mental heathcare costs that I surely would've incurred by staying...

I'd like for us to help each other think some up, flesh them out, ground them in some practicality, get them something resembling realistic, and if we can get that far, possibly even work on taking real proposals to real companies, or even just make efforts to raise general awareness of INTP-specific strengths, their value to society at large, and the benefits to everyone of encouraging/ rewarding whatever it is we have to offer.

One of us (shit, maybe even several of us) may have the potential to contribute something on the order of Einstein. S/he could be sitting around depressed and playing video games, maybe because they've failed out of college from lack of interest or poor socializing skills. And it's irrational to presume that genius will always surface anyway because Mr. E was working as a lackey in some patent office when HE developed Relativity... I don't believe in fate or destiny, do you?

I'm very aware that I've kind of started ranting and may not be making any sense. So I'm going to finish this post by proposing that we start small by playing a game. (We all like games, don't we?) I'd like for anyone who cares to, to post a fictional job description, a sort of idealized job, one which you think you might even want to stay with for the rest of your life. We can worry about bringing it down back to earth later...

And as I trust you will, please let me know if I sound like a loony or all this sounds really dumb...

[n0mad]

And as I trust you will, please let me know if I sound like a loony or all this sounds really dumb...
Not at all, I assure you. :)

Now, for the ideal job.
I remember mentioning it somewhere here but I don't remember where. Anyway, I call it conceptual management. It's about running practically any sort of institution (including the goverment ones) by being the sort of a chief consultant (it isn't neccessary just one such position to exist within the institution). It wouldn't have a work schedule, just some general agenda deadlines. It's pretty much abstract position, considering that managers run almost any sort of institutions.

Hmmm. I don't like the name - Omniverse Union. Sounds like some evil organization in kid movies. It should be exclusively Latin (or Greek) name to symbolize this organizations internationality.

[indie]

s0523

That does not sound like a dumb idea at all . . . need time to think a bit. :)

[s0978]

Nomad, when you say "running an institution," are you talking about Operations? Coordinating agenda and resources?

[n0mad]

I wouldn't exactly know what Operations, as I don't speak English perfectly, but I have general idea what you are talking about.
No, this job would mess with stuff you mentioned, but it would also question the sole foundations of that institution, directing it whole another way if neccessary.
Big fat sallary and all the benefits I can think of, of course. 8O

[joft]

I've considered many different academic fields, and many times I thought that I had finally managed to decide on something. But I never have, I still keep changing my mind. The other day I thought of something that I had considered several times in the past, and for once I really do think it would work out if I was able to do it. Unfortunately for me, it's very impractical, and I also don't know anything about how to go about trying to do it.

Anyway, I thought, I would like to act. Theater, television, I don't care. I've always had a lot of pent up artistic/expressive "energy" that I could never express, but it would work perfectly if I had a character; to become something other than myself, and express that. I also think it would work perfectly because I would get to become something different with each new production, and that would help me a lot with the whole thing about getting bored quickly and wanting to do something else.

There's nothing about acting that I would really like to change, except for the fact that it's apparently an impossible career to get into. It's very possible that I might change my mind again, but right now I'm pretty sure this is the closest thing to my real perfect job. I'm pretty sure I have a natural affinity for it, but the (very) small amount of information that I've found online about it just keeps talking about how incredibly difficult it is and you need years of intense training and if you didn't start when you were 2 years old you may as well give up now, and that's all not very encouraging.

So I have a decision to make, pursue that lofty dream and most likely fail and get stuck working as like a manager at mcdonald's for the rest of my life. Or, abandon the dream and pursue a career pounding away at this keyboard writing programs I'm not interested in for companies I could care less about.

[raincrow007]

Joft, wouldn't you find such an extroverted activity as acting very draining as an introvert? Or would the camouflage of a role be enough to "hide" you onstage? [Just curious, not trying to be critical in any fashion].

[joft]

Joft, wouldn't you find such an extroverted activity as acting very draining as an introvert? Or would the camouflage of a role be enough to "hide" you onstage? [Just curious, not trying to be critical in any fashion]. See, that's the thing. I'm not sure acting has to do with extroversion at all. I also don't think that I'm naturally as introverted as my situations cause me to be. And yes, being able to portray a role bypasses EVERY self-conscious and self-doubting mental routine I normally have for myself.

I have a theory that my last sentence might have something to do with the "chameleon tendencies" that a lot of INTPs say they identify with when they read that INTP profile. I really do love becoming a role other than myself, it gives me such freedom and escape. I find myself doing it in social situations almost automatically, and sometimes I have some anxiety over whether I'm a "real" person because I never act "real." But then I kind of realize that all the mannerisms, vocal tones and so on of my "normal" self are really no more real and no less acted out than others, but they're just the ones I'm more comfortable with.

[raincrow007]

I suppose it depends on how into character you were able to become... I just thought it was an odd choice [although I can see your reasoning behind it]. Do you think your T would eventually start analyzing the professional genre to the point of stripping it of value? I find that once the novelty of something has worn off, I often lose all interest. I also think that banking so heavily on a career that has novelty inherently built in [usually creative persuits] might be a flawed way of trying to satisfy our mental wanderlust. I'm an artist, and I'm just as bored, frustrated, and full of angst as most people here with my career choice. Sometimes I think having too many options [what to paint, what role to play] can be just as stifling as being in a cubefarm. I'm more satisfied as an artist when I run with my intuition, instead of my head, and sometimes that's very difficult [to suspend logic, or maybe to reach for a different kind]. Is the suspension of logic what makes it possible for you to don another role, and if so, is that where your sense of freedom and escape is derived from?

[Warrior413]

This is a good idea, but I prefer the term Universe Onion.

Alright, for a dream job sorta:
Religion/Philosophy tester. Like a rollercoaster tester except for INTPs. We could help prospective prophets and cult leaders by developing their ideas. Then we could point out flaws in their logic and suggest improvements. "Yes, Garlaxia Prime, I realize Light of Solaris is the one true faith, but perhaps instead of feasting on unbelievers and pigeons you could decree all food is safe? That way you could incease your vegetarian conversion rate." And then we recieve large cuts from the donation fund while still remaining in the shadows.

[raincrow007]

Do you keep misreading that as "Universe Onion" too? :P

[Geoff]

This is a good idea, but I prefer the term Universe Onion.

Alright, for a dream job sorta:
Religion/Philosophy tester. Like a rollercoaster tester except for INTPs. We could help prospective prophets and cult leaders by developing their ideas. Then we could point out flaws in their logic and suggest improvements. "Yes, Garlaxia Prime, I realize Light of Solaris is the one true faith, but perhaps instead of feasting on unbelievers and pigeons you could decree all food is safe? That way you could incease your vegetarian conversion rate." And then we recieve large cuts from the donation fund while still remaining in the shadows.

Funny you should say that, I think Religious manuals (such as the old testament) show a fair amount of 'advice' from an expert on how to survive. Points such as not eating unclean things are probably a sign of someone with insight being involved in the writing process. At that time in our development, it makes a lot of sense.

-Geoff

[tragula]

How about just plain old Think Tank.

[Warrior413]

Do you keep misreading that as "Universe Onion" too? :P
Yes... :blush:


Funny you should say that, I think Religious manuals (such as the old testament) show a fair amount of 'advice' from an expert on how to survive. Points such as not eating unclean things are probably a sign of someone with insight being involved in the writing process. At that time in our development, it makes a lot of sense.

-Geoff
Perhaps they were written or edited by INTPs bored of the daily grind. Just throwing up and/or out an idea.

[glassmoon]

And as I trust you will, please let me know if I sound like a loony or all this sounds really dumb...
As it is apparent from many previous threads, it's a common INTP issue...


Scientists - especially Physics, Chemistry
Photographers
Strategic Planners
Mathematicians
University Professors
Computer Programmers, Systems Analysts, Computer Animation and Computer Specialists
Technical Writers
Engineers
Lawyers / Attorneys
Judges
Forensic Research
Forestry and Park Rangers
provides a list of a few possible INTP careers...
Anyway, I think INTP's can be consultants or advisors, as it will utilize their analyzing and problem solving skills without dealing with redundant and mundane details. Another option is teaching; since an INTP wouldn't be challenged by teaching the same matterial in a class, it would be better for him to write college text books.

joft - I like you're idea of becoming an actor, and I understand your interest in art. Acting in movies could be a job an INTP would enjoy since every role is different (Meryl Strip is INTP). The only drawback, as you mentioned, is that it's impractical...

[indie]

Damn.

I keep trying to verbalize these thoughts, but they are not coming out right. I think I understand where you were coming from with your original post, s0523 . . . but there is definitely "something" desired, but it's difficult to explain. I know what I'd be good at doing, but it's not necessarily something worthy of a "title" or "job description." Because with titles come job descriptions and expectations that need be met.

Need more time to think.

[Arioch]

Yet "society" (I know, I know, the logic isn't so rigorous here, I'm throwing abstractions around) doesn't provide established, tried and true tracks for us - and that chafes my ass.

Hmm... I think that a true INTP career would be in inventing new tracks. the established, tried and true tracks are (mostly) for SJ's. Mind you, even they have a hard time finding a career that suits them.

What we really need is to make up something that makes it easier for someone to find the career suited for them.

A thought we might want to remember is that jobs do not just come out of the blue. Jobs are sometimes for the service of society, and more often in the service of people who have some measure of power (such as money or political strength). If we develop a career it would have to be something that someone with more clout then we have can bring to be.

[s0978]

Hmm... I think that a true INTP career would be in inventing new tracks. the established, tried and true tracks

Nicely put. Only I was saying, in a sense, is let's try and do that here, collaboratively. We won't get paid directly for our efforts, but it may lay some groundwork for each of us to pursue individually or as a group, and lead to the work of our dreams.

And maybe, some of us can run with your idea:


What we really need is to make up something that makes it easier for someone to find the career suited for them.

I was thinking make a framework to make it all easier for INTPs, but your idea has much more earning potential -- MUCH bigger market share. If it's something anyone wants to run with, I hope you start a dedicated thread.


It's definitely possible that we'll get bored of trying, but I'm actually surprised by how long threads here can be kept alive.

And it's possible we can get really productive with this, and interested enough that our J sides come out (I haven't had an official 9-5 in awhile, but can be completely conscientious and driven to perform when inspired, as I'm sure many of you can)...

Or maybe it will end up leading toward real life networking... if you guys are anything like me, you run from real world networking as a conscious activity... but in my experience, it's a very viable way to find the great jobs. I already know I respect the way your minds work, and suspect you all are overflowing with competence (yes, yes, the admiration stems from a narcissistic reflex, so what)...

Lastly, Indiejade, if you haven't noticed, I'm still scratching my head for my ideal position too!

[Claverhouse]

See, that's the thing. I'm not sure acting has to do with extroversion at all.
Looking at actors, whom I don't particularly admire necessarily, I'd guess that a fair number are introverts. Alec Guinness for one. Possibly Antony Perkins, Vincent Price, Peter Cushing, Robert Mitchum; Richard Gere & Billy Crystal ( both INFJ ), Dennis Hopper and Jack Lemmon apparently.

Actresses: Katharine Hepburn was introverted I've read, Jodie Foster, Nicole Kidman ? Actresses may be rather less introverted than actors, I'd guess, but I don't really watch films much and never go to the theatre. I've left out modern actors completely, partly because there are no younger male major stars and young female stars all seem a bit grandmotherly. Compared with Clara Bow say.

I'd imagine I'd have sucked less at being an actor than at most jobs. After all, think how INTPs have to go through pretences when interacting with other people, and consider how patient we are with the slower members of the class...


Claverhouse :ph34r:


Oh and here's a bit from an obit on Charles Bronson --- not exactly a jolly ray-of-sunshine extrovert at the best of times --- 'Whether for revenge or just for the pleasure of watching a human being breathe his last, Bronson killed more people than any single actor in the history of cinema. It is a lasting testamant to the power of Bronson's heartless brutality that I always remember his face before, during, and after a killing -- devoid of emotion, hard, stoic, deeply lined, and robotic. A hard-assed, no-nonsense killing machine. That is Charles Bronson, and that is why he made me smile.

Charles Bronson was and is -- and will always remain -- a man who could solve every problem facing our world with the barrel of a gun. He hated negotiation, loathed conversation, and would rather die than go through the courts. Charles Bronson gave us an America full of gun-toting, death-obsessed introverts who didn't need sex, didn't need domestic comforts, and didn't seem to have any interests whatsoever except putting lead into other human beings. And I loved him for it. '

So whether or not one himself, he made others so. Can anyone do more ?

[Ascending]

Omni is from latin. Although I see your point for exclusively.
Omnis Universum Conventus - All Universe Union
It most likely sounds evil because of the simularity to Omnius.

Omnithought Union
Omnivison Union

Omniverse Union was made up on the spot. I was trying to think of somthing that would encompass my (our?) quest to understand everything.

That is since "Life the Universe and everything" was A:Taken and B:Too long.

Let me take another shot at it.

Now, in Latin

Sententia Socius Consilium
-Council of those Allied in way of thinking.-

Or Sententia Council for short. SSC isn't too shabby of an abbriv.

A bit lengthy, but if you want to say anything with meaning in latin...

Sententia = sentiment, opinion, decision, saying, thought, way of thinking, meaning, purpose

Socius = partner, companion, sharing, comrade, associated, associate, allied, ally, fellow

Consilium=deliberation, consultation, assembly, council, resolution, measure as in plan, advice, suggestion, wisdom, purpose, judgment, attention,

[Ascending]

Yes, the thought of a group rather excites me. At the moment we have many random threads some ( :whistle: ) more useful then others. I have also felt this somewhat indescribable need.

If we could come together and really figure out our strengths, weaknesses, and (working) plans to overcome those weaknesses then our potential is greatly amplified.

Let us come together as many knives, sharpening one another.

[C.J.Woolf]

Now, for the ideal job.
I remember mentioning it somewhere here but I don't remember where. Anyway, I call it conceptual management. It's about running practically any sort of institution (including the goverment ones) by being the sort of a chief consultant (it isn't neccessary just one such position to exist within the institution). It wouldn't have a work schedule, just some general agenda deadlines. It's pretty much abstract position, considering that managers run almost any sort of institutions.
That sounds like my career goal of "idea man". I'm nowhere near reaching it...

[Star]

My ideal job would be - space colonist!

By this I mean helping to build an entirely new civilization from scratch: designing every last aspect of it from the social and political to the physical construction of living environments and the production of biological necessities.

Anyone hiring for this? I have highly advanced Civilization skills.. I started way back with Sim City 2000 on the Nintendo and since have worked my way up to the Diamond Age on CTP2. I am completly self-taught.

Resume available on request. :D

[s0978]

My ideal job would be - space colonist!

By this I mean helping to build an entirely new civilization from scratch: designing every last aspect of it from the social and political to the physical construction of living environments and the production of biological necessities.

Ha! Deepsky, you're a woman after my heart (uh, no, I'm not gay)... just your post reminded of something I hadn't thought about in a long time... but I used to fantasize about setting up a new civilization on a different planet all the time. Plus you're the minimalist who doesn't want to stay put either.

[Warrior413]

Yes, I agree with deepsky. I also have extensive knowledge in this area, especially with Sid Meir's Alpha Centauri. I've always considered being a colonist to the moon or Mars once we actually get the space program underway. You can further increase your studies by reading The Moon is a Harsh Mistress by my friend and yours, Isaac Asimov.

[MasterMerk]

That sounds like my career goal of "idea man". I'm nowhere near reaching it...

Similair to what I was thinking a good INTP career would be. Although I'm not sure how it would work, really.

Maybe you'd have a knack for being theoretical, all-round scientists. That's nice and all-encompassing, there's no way you would get bored if you were interested in it.

If you aren't interested in the sciences, maybe the liberal arts or something.

[INTrPosr]

I remember mentioning it somewhere here but I don't remember where. Anyway, I call it conceptual management. It's about running practically any sort of institution (including the goverment ones) by being the sort of a chief consultant (it isn't neccessary just one such position to exist within the institution).
Sounds like a Strategic Planner. I like this thread and agree with s0523 totally.

[INTrPosr]

It is to design (and potentially even develop!) careers for INTPs. What I'd personally like for us to do together is to help each other create ideal careers for ourselves. Careers that don't exist yet. I believe they don't exist yet because we're a marginalized minority, and because we tend not to implement. We all intuitively know, at least in the abstract, that our strengths are valuable to society.
First s0523, just curious about your ID, since it's my birthdate. I think that from some of the subjects that you hit on in this thread, it may be a good place to determine a universal list of strengths and weaknesses. It would also do well for INTPs to choose an interaction style that the entire group would agree with, i.e., are there objections to INTPs prefering the "behind the scene" role, to leading, charting the course or getting things started?

[s0978]

1) Hey... May 23 is my b'day too. Jinx? Don't know what you're supposed to say on the event of such a coinky-dinky.

2) The recurring theme of "Strategic Planner" finally made me look it up, and for those who were puzzled about it too:
http://www.changedesigns.co.za/The_role_of_a_strategic_planner.htm

To me personally, sounds appealing in concept, but I want to vomit when I imagine what kind of work environments "strategic planner" seems to entail --I figure only large-ish, soul-less corporations hire them... I may be being naiive, though -- I have enjoyed writing business plans for my department in smaller tech companies, anyway.

3) I think, INTrPosr, you're getting meta- meta- INTP on me... are you suggesting we get more strategic about the way we go about the general ambition here? If so, please, (anybody) please feel free to take the baton with strategy/ organization/ whatever. True to INTP form, I get uncomfortable if I am in any role/ spotlight for too long.

4) Regarding INTPness, though, someone (I think it was waxwing) had a great post on some forum, I can't remember, cautioning about universalizing INTP traits... I'm in total agreement with the notion that we all just fall on a spectrum, and we all have some E, S, F, J in us... so I'm not entirely clear why getting even more analytical/ systematic (beyond the descriptions already out there) about understanding INTPness would accomplish.

Ah, but wait, that's just stupid... I guess we're all here in the first place because we want to understand INTPness more... but I am less clear on the agenda of doing in this context than you... so if you want to see that done, you definitely have to take the lead on this!

[indie]

deepsky: space colonist I love that idea! My muddled thoughts have been verbalized.

Seems like a lot of what we INTPers want to do is find flaws in systems and say "okay, here's what *should* be done to fix it," or to say that the structure of the system is flawed in (a) (b) and (c) ways, let's redesign the structure and create something better on all levels.

Assuming, as you said we were going to, "build an entirely new civilization from scratch: designing every last aspect of it from the social and political to the physical construction of living environments and the production of biological necessities." I propose we do just that. . . (figuratively, of course) think tank away and create some "INTP Friendly Heaven" where we might never be bored or outcast.

Now the big question: where to begin?

[Edmond Zedo]

deepsky: space colonist I love that idea! My muddled thoughts have been verbalized.

Seems like a lot of what we INTPers want to do is find flaws in systems and say "okay, here's what *should* be done to fix it," or to say that the structure of the system is flawed in (a) (b) and (c) ways, let's redesign the structure and create something better on all levels.

Assuming, as you said we were going to, "build an entirely new civilization from scratch: designing every last aspect of it from the social and political to the physical construction of living environments and the production of biological necessities." I propose we do just that. . . (figuratively, of course) think tank away and create some "INTP Friendly Heaven" where we might never be bored or outcast.

Now the big question: where to begin?
Hitler tried that. He might have been INTP. A lot of people had a problem with his ideas and methods though.

[Utopmk]

Hitler tried that. He might have been INTP. A lot of people had a problem with his ideas and methods though.

Hitler a P? You are out of your mind.

[indie]

I think you missed a word in my post, Zedo: figuratively.

[Edmond Zedo]

Hitler a P? You are out of your mind.
Why not P?

[Edmond Zedo]

I think you missed a word in my post, Zedo: figuratively.
That's academic. If you had "figuratively" designed a new society, and then became in a position to start implementing the change, would you not? If you really believed it to be better?

[Ascending]

What we need now are some specific objectives. Of course people fall on different parts of the spectrum, this should not cause us to call any generalizations useless. All the descriptions are general and must be remembered to be only tendanys suseptible to changes due to environmental factors.

"are you suggesting we get more strategic about the way we go about the general ambition here?"

Yes. Unfortunately I lack a game plan. Anyone have one laying around we could use?

[Utopmk]

Why not P?

Are we talking about Socionics? If not, I don't even need to explain. :P

[Ascending]

Getting back on topic here...

[jimkopelli]

I would be perfectly happy in the right kind of think tank. Just tip me in some fish food every now and then, and I won't try and knock those silly plants over.

[glassmoon]

Hitler tried that. He might have been INTP. A lot of people had a problem with his ideas and methods though.
I googled many pages which most claim he was xNFJ.

[Claverhouse]

When you're famous, everyone wants to claim you as one of their own.



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[songbird36]

Who the heck would want to claim Hitler?

Robert Mugabe perhaps?

[glassmoon]

When you're famous, everyone wants to claim you as one of their own.



Claverhouse :ph34r:Yep.

Q: I just found out I'm an INFJ, and now it seems like all my favorite authors, musicians, and other heroes are also INFJ. Is this possible?

A: It's easy to fall into the trap of claiming your hero as your own type. This is particularly common among NFs. And as Robbie said, "We also tend to disown people of our type who we dislike. Ask anyone on INTJ-L and they'll tell you Hitler was an INFJ. Ask anyone on INFJ-L and they'll tell you he was an INTJ."

[Eileen]

This is a good idea, but I prefer the term Universe Onion.

Alright, for a dream job sorta:
Religion/Philosophy tester. Like a rollercoaster tester except for INTPs. We could help prospective prophets and cult leaders by developing their ideas. Then we could point out flaws in their logic and suggest improvements. "Yes, Garlaxia Prime, I realize Light of Solaris is the one true faith, but perhaps instead of feasting on unbelievers and pigeons you could decree all food is safe? That way you could incease your vegetarian conversion rate." And then we recieve large cuts from the donation fund while still remaining in the shadows.


LMAO. That's awesome.

[Eileen]

Huh.

I guess Hitler was a visionary sort... I could see that, though it's definitely gross to me. Ew.

Though this site (http://cbae.nmsu.edu/~dboje/teaching/490_psl/step_7.htm) talks about "journeys" for the temperments...

NT - Journey of Unity
NF - Journey of Harmony
SF - Journey of Devotion
ST - Journey of Works

Might be useful for thinking about leaders. Might be a bunch of hooey. Who's to say, really? (Waits for the INTPs to say...)

[Edmond Zedo]

On old "Adolf." I've learned some things about his life which say "INTP." I too have heard him called ENTJ, ENFJ, and INFJ by various sources, and apparently Jung's description indicated INFP (Vague though).

He seemed to me to be a bit of an introverted odd cat in youth/early adulthood, was an artist, and liked to design things. He continued to design cities and buildings while Germany was in imminent defeat.

Furthermore, It's nearly accepted that he was regularly using methamphetamines during WWII, which I surmise could have made him appear E and J.

[Claverhouse]

There's a good online biography of his preWWII life on Smoter (http://www.smoter.com/).


I find nazism boring though, a mixture of marxist practice and impractical idealism. Probably the worse aspect was the regimentation of private life to the beat of the party drum; not that that was particular to them. It was never that attractive to most Germans either, just a way of advancement you accepted whilst they were in power. Since nazism was merely a party platform ( the Twenty-Five Points were mostly very sensible for the circumstances of the early period ) it never had the faintest chance of lasting a hundred years, let alone a thousand even if they had won the war.

Not that the present system will last either.



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Edmond Zedo]

Excerpts from Claverhouse's link:

Hitler was certainly gifted, although only for particular subjects, but he lacked self-control and, to say the least, he was considered argumentative, autocratic, self-opinionated and bad-tempered, and unable to submit to school discipline. Nor was he industrious; otherwise he would have achieved much better results, gifted as he was....

Ironically, although Adolf didn't want to attend any more school he had an insatiable appetite for knowledge on subjects that interested him. He developed into a voracious reader. He spent much of his time reading a great number of books he was able to borrow from the many private libraries in the city. He also joined the city's Museum Society....

Although most of Adolf's reading tended to be informative or instructive he did read novels.* With the exception of adventure stories which he read for enjoyment, he seldom read popular novels which had not stood the test of time and wisely read classics. Occasionally he did read novels that were in vogue, a friend would later state, "but in order to form a judgment of those who read them rather than of the books themselves."
God, I'm stupid for suggesting he could be INTP. You know me.

[Claverhouse]

I was worried for a faint moment, until I realised I have never been autocratic nor argumentative...



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Edmond Zedo]

I was worried for a faint moment, until I realised I have never been autocratic nor argumentative...



Claverhouse :ph34r:
Yes you have! Now I've got you in a Catch-22! *maniacal laugh, even more maniacal than usual*

[file cabinet]

back to the space colonist job..
the game I am desiring to create reminded me of what you described.. I am less interested in coding it and more interested in learning about the various aspects of economics that will be applied(or not applied?) in it.. in the mean time if you want to be a space colonist you could start a thread somewhere and lay out what you think your space colony will need... although.. I guess it's probably easier to play an actual game.. oh well.

[Star]

The details (and complications) are laid out beautifully in the Mars Trilogy (Red Mars, Blue Mars, Green Mars) by Kim Stanley Robinson. Anyone read these?

[Ascending]

I detect focus issues.

Perhaps we could start a thread where people post their functional skills and from there see what we have to work with. I'm interested in what capabilities this forum would have if orginized into a group.

This way we could "network" without actualy networking. :)

[INTrPosr]

1) Hey... May 23 is my b'day too. Jinx? Don't know what you're supposed to say on the event of such a coinky-dinky.You say...... what a coinky dinky!:)


I think, INTrPosr, you're getting meta- meta- INTP on me... are you suggesting we get more strategic about the way we go about the general ambition here? If so, please, (anybody) please feel free to take the baton with strategy/ organization/ whatever. True to INTP form, I get uncomfortable if I am in any role/ spotlight for too long.Hahaha, the flaw of every INTP. Who wants the lead and limelight in this matter?

I took a gander at the strategic planning information that you provided s0523. I would say that the RESEARCH end would be right down an INTPs alley, as would the FACILITATOR somewhat. But the remaining parts seems more geared toward INFJs and ENTPs. In fact in reading the qualities of a Strategic Planner sound exactly like INFJ and some of ENTP.

[indie]

back to the space colonist job..
the game I am desiring to create reminded me of what you described.. I am less interested in coding it and more interested in learning about the various aspects of economics that will be applied(or not applied?) in it.. in the mean time if you want to be a space colonist you could start a thread somewhere and lay out what you think your space colony will need... although.. I guess it's probably easier to play an actual game.. oh well.

Economics-related questions narrowly defined, which societies face:

What goods/services should be produced? This depends on the type of economy: market, central, mixed, etc. I would guess that INTPs would want to invent a new type of economy . . .

How to produce with scarce resources? This is mostly a question of prices, i.e. scarce "valuable" resources are priced higher, etc. Don't know if this is relevant, but it could be. It could be construed to deal with environmental issues, as well . . .

Who receives the benefits of production? This is the big one, because it correlates the economics/government aspect. . .. Governments can intervene in deciding who gets what.

[misutii]

Furthermore, It's nearly accepted that he was regularly using methamphetamines during WWII, which I surmise could have made him appear E and J.

haha, moral of the story is: when bored with life take methamphetamine and you can attempt to conquer the world too!

atleast now i have a backup plan if i dont get into graduate school

[Ascending]

:huh: I should have known better then to get excited about a project relying on a bunch of INTPs.

[Star]

:huh: I should have known better then to get excited about a project relying on a bunch of INTPs.

Well I backed off because I learned from usenet that there's no hope of having a constructive conversation once someone has brought up Hitler. They call this Godwin's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law). ;D

Maybe we can start a nice, clean new thread? Of course by we, I mean you.

[n0mad]

In addition, whoever points out that Godwin's law applies to the thread is also considered to have "lost" the battle, as it is considered poor form to invoke the law explicitly.
heh ;P

[s0978]

:huh: I should have known better then to get excited about a project relying on a bunch of INTPs.

Yes, you're probably right... but maybe it'll be resuscitated every so often? ...that actually seems to happen here with more frequency than anywhere else I've seen. Personally, I'm still absorbing material from the careers threads... and an N moment for this thread might kick in any day now... but maybe not.. but, as it seems with INTPs, you gotta take what you can get.

[Dgall78]

Would it make sence to put down what the group would want out of the job and then combine as a whole or in little flexible groups?
I for one would like an evolving job, one that has the flexibility to persue different threads of thoughts/ideas as they come up. For me the biggest problem in work is that in an effort to make money things are streamlined and result in things that are not as good as they could be.

[PsiKik]

back to the space colonist job..
the game I am desiring to create reminded me of what you described.. I am less interested in coding it and more interested in learning about the various aspects of economics that will be applied(or not applied?) in it.. in the mean time if you want to be a space colonist you could start a thread somewhere and lay out what you think your space colony will need... although.. I guess it's probably easier to play an actual game.. oh well.

Ok, how about this, in a future society where a space colony would be possible, the concepts of economics that we have been drilled with would not be valid. What if we had total manufacturing as per matter transmutation, molecular nanotech manufacturing and all that cool stuff? The questions would not be how do we use what we have - value on scarce resources etc. The questions would be about what we choose to produce. In this scenario there are no no's, we can make what we want, not necesarily what we need but what we want. If you know what I'm sayin'

[s0978]

You know what I think? And this may sound like a joke, but I'm being earnest (although maybe also naive). For those of you most into the space colony thing, I think you organize doing some preliminary research, and you work toward taking a proposal to the government. You can rationalize the funding by pointing to worst case threat scenarios to homeland security, it's just a matter of time until the North Korean dude really loses and it and starts hitting red buttons, etc. I'd venture to guess that stranger projects have been funded.

Oh, and don't forget to hire me on if you get that far. ;)

[n0mad]

And me. I really like silver suits. 8O

[Ascending]

Personaly I don't trust our current level of space flight capablities.

Shields, I'd feel much better if the rockets had shields.

[Ascending]

http://forums.intpcentral.com/showthread.php?p=59681#post59681

[s0978]

Would it make sence to put down what the group would want out of the job and then combine as a whole or in little flexible groups?
.

I think for now, flexible threads. Hopefully under one careers-oriented forum, probably under "Shrink's Sofa." The space colony could be a thread, strategic planning another, acting - headed by joft - another... Different threads develop as people get inspired. NOT to divide people up, but to organize discussions and keep them more focused. Because let's face it, we're definitely already prone to running off with our own thoughts.

Mea culpa, I wanted to respond to Joft's posts about acting and never did, because I got sidetracked...

Also the separate threads would be nice, because even if I'm fairly certain I'm probably not going to pursue acting, I would probably find the thread interesting and might want to chime in every so often... and you know it's possible I may have a helpful thought about acting that others might find of interest...possible, though not probable. :blink:

[Helios]

I am starting to feel lame cause I am always jumping on joft's bandwagon, but I always idenify with what he is saying. So much so on the "chameleon tendencies" part. Also in the past too, I questioned what was "real", but realize it all is, "I project therefore I am" whatever I want to be, to see/do/feel/experiance what I want at the time. It is automatic, sometimes to gain what I am seeking, sometime just 'cause life is simplest being what people wish to see, if you don't really care in that moment.

And then there was the acting part, yeah I have really played around with the idea as of late. It seems like a great creative outlet. Sadly a few years ago when I was wasteing time modeling my agent was always after me to get into acting which at the time didn't appeal, the whole being famous thing seemed like a nightmare, and L.A. was further than NYC. While I sorta know (from before) where to start and all, so many other people are chasing this so much harder I don't see outside so random chance thing anything happening, besides before I was in my early 20s, now at the ripe old age of 28 things are all the more faded. Thankfully I can still paint,write, and now I am making T-shirts to get out all that silly creative energy.

[s0978]

Also in the past too, I questioned what was "real", but realize it all is, "I project therefore I am" whatever I want to be, to see/do/feel/experiance what I want at the time.

Brings to mind the notion that "the real" begins with, and is generated by, ideas and imagination. Abstract ideas are as much a part of reality as the "real" world, and are in fact, what enable everything that's been physically manifest and will be physically manifest. Notion best put forward by Umberto Eco, I think.

And I'm in love with the concept, it validates INTPness, and it points to why I think it's good idea to think up imaginary careers.

Helios, I think you should write. You really have a special talent for written communication.

Acting. I do understand the impulse as you all describe it. And also why it seems like an unlikely career path. If I look at the way you guys have been discussing it, though, I wonder if you wouldn't want to write a book ABOUT acting. It's an interesting topic on plenty of different levels and I rather doubt anyone's ever done a theoretically oriented treatment of it (don't really know, but a quick search on amazon says "doubtful"). And maybe it's not so "theoretical" (probably wouldn't sell well), but a simple collection of actors' stories about how/why they get into it... the desire to act is fascinating on its own. Do the really good actors get into it in pursuit of fame and glory, or do they get into it for reasons similar to joft's? Anyway, just a thought...

[Helios]

Wow, s0523 thanx, very interesting. It was funny I was thinking "yes, I would love to write, but WHAT about ?!?!" And then you kindly told me! Very cool, I believe I will ponder this idea. If it sticks with me after my mid-term I start flirting with it in a more tangible way.