Finding Meaning

[Eileen]

I posted this question in a thread and it was never addressed, and I want to see if anyone will answer the question in this context.



People get really caught up in the question of whether there is/whether it's possible to know whether there is a god, and it's only meaningful to a point, in my opinion. Debating the existence of God is boring to me; I'm interested in what people find meaning in--especially if they're agnostic or atheist, but also if they're theist (it's just that various theisms are already pretty spelled out).

I contend that we all live in a world constructed by myths, and we all perform rituals that perpetuate these myths. I do not think this is bad; I think this is beautiful and fascinating. It's easy to tear down someone else's beliefs if you claim to have none... but what postulates do you stand on? What are YOUR givens? At base, in your opinion and/or experience, what is true, and what impact does that truth have on your life and/or the life of a collective humanity?


*Note: I do not believe that myths are lies, so for the sake of this thread, try not to attatch negative connotations to the word "myth."

[CreativeChaos]

Hi Eileen!

The Search for Meaning is very much an NF thing to do. From what I have read, other types are not nearly as caught up in this as we are. It is possibly why you got no responses. But I would be curious to see what NTs would have to say to such an NF question.

As an INFP I "see" meaning everywhere. I have learned to "create" meaning for myself. In small things and large. It took striving to "see" the meaning of things til about the age of 35 before it became "automatic".

What is most "meaningful" to me is kindness, benevolence, changing the world in whatever ways I can to become a more kind and loving place. I do this by "being" kind and loving as much as I can. Thus, I spread kindness and love to the world.

*CC imagines INTPs are throwing up right about now. But this is her NF side, that she doesn't show here to this degree. Hee!*

[joft]

I don't think finding meaning isn't an NT thing, it's always been one of the central questions in my life. I'm at the point where I have an existential crisis pretty much every day because I'm so concerned about meaning. Maybe I'm just less T and more F than I realize, but I also have a very hard time assigning meaning to anything without my T shooting it down. I'm very conflicted, I wonder if I'm miss-typed and I'm not really supposed to be this way, but at the same time I think very rationally and logically that that could just be attributed to Perceiving.

[songbird36]

I don't think finding meaning isn't an NT thing, it's always been one of the central questions in my life. I'm at the point where I have an existential crisis pretty much every day because I'm so concerned about meaning. Maybe I'm just less T and more F than I realize, but I also have a very hard time assigning meaning to anything without my T shooting it down. I'm very conflicted, I wonder if I'm miss-typed and I'm not really supposed to be this way, but at the same time I think very rationally and logically that that could just be attributed to Perceiving.

I think you are quite F. It's nice actually.

[Hypnos]

:blink:

:) I'm okay with "meaning," if you recognize that it is entirely a subjective, emotional reaction. You are cosmic dust, a speck of a knot in the universe -- the only reason anything means something is your own desire.

Understand yourself, find meaning.

[songbird36]

Hi Eileen!

The Search for Meaning is very much an NF thing to do. From what I have read, other types are not nearly as caught up in this as we are. It is possibly why you got no responses. But I would be curious to see what NTs would have to say to such an NF question.


*CC imagines INTPs are throwing up right about now. But this is her NF side, that she doesn't show here to this degree. Hee!*

I would need to know what Eileen means by meaning!

Do you mean "order, or design to explain a seemingly chaotic universe"? If so, I would have thought that would lead INTPs towards some sort of theology, rather than vice versa as seems to be the case.

If it means "moral or ethical meaning", then I'm sure it is very much an INTP thing to do, whatever world view they happen to subscribe to.

[cjs55]

Understand yourself, find meaning.


Agreed!

[Geoff]

Humans intrinsically search for patterns. It is so inbuilt into the way we recognise and develop (for example, how we detect one face from another).

We eagerly jump on coincidences, and search for an underlying meeting. Lucky lottery numbers, seeing faces in the clouds, thinking of someone and then they call you. Doesnt lead one to theology if you are strong in your logic ;)

-Geoff

[songbird36]

Humans intrinsically search for patterns. It is so inbuilt into the way we recognise and develop (for example, how we detect one face from another).

We eagerly jump on coincidences, and search for an underlying meeting. Lucky lottery numbers, seeing faces in the clouds, thinking of someone and then they call you. Doesnt lead one to theology if you are strong in your logic ;)

-Geoff

What's the alternative then? What provides your conception of an overall (or underlying if you prefer) logic, pattern or design to an otherwise random universe?

[garak]

I'm very interested in "what" and "how."

But the "why" question just isn't really there. I think of meaning as something you assign to things.

[Geoff]

What's the alternative then? What provides your conception of an overall (or underlying if you prefer) logic, pattern or design to an otherwise random universe?

I dont have one. My strong 'id' in logic leads me to a conclusion that we are all but random permutations in the fabric of a universe that has always existed, and our theory as to why has not yet been determined.

My logic tells me that these patterns we identify are largely coincidences that flow from the human tendency to want to find patterns and identify them - they are part of what makes us intelligent in prehistory.

But recognising patterns as what they are is what makes us modern humans.

-Geoff

[songbird36]

I dont have one. My strong 'id' in logic leads me to a conclusion that we are all but random permutations in the fabric of a universe that has always existed, and our theory as to why has not yet been determined.

My logic tells me that these patterns we identify are largely coincidences that flow from the human tendency to want to find patterns and identify them - they are part of what makes us intelligent in prehistory.

But recognising patterns as what they are is what makes us modern humans.

-Geoff

Are you saying the patterns, or design, would not be there if we humans did not have a tendency to seek patterns?

[Geoff]

Are you saying the patterns, or design, would not be there if we humans did not have a tendency to seek patterns?

I mean the universe has an underlying order and pattern that is part of the way the rules that underly it (chaos, matter/energy and gravitational rules) tend to create. Easy enough to reproduce it in a closed system, using chaos theory that the emergent property of a chaotic system is usually a pattern to a human interpretation.

As for the human tendency I am saying that our development leads to conclude more often than before that a pattern is merely a coincidence and does not have the significance, of for example, the involvement of a higher being.

Example - prehistoric hunter has 3 bad days. On day 4 he cuts his arm on a spear before hunting and gets his prey. Pattern identified, and he sacrificies his blood (or probably his 'wife' knowing a typical man!) so as to ensure that the great hunting god is appeased. Later modern man recognises this pattern as a coincidence.

Over time our greater reliance on science and logic has pushed back the boundaries of patterns/coincidences so that spirituality has less impact than perhaps any time in our existence. Largely religion/spirituality etc just claims things that are no longer provable and the provable facts are now pushed back (from the hunted animal demands a sacrifice of blood, or that the world is flat) to the spiritual plane.

That's my take, anyway.

-Geoff

[CreativeChaos]

I'm going to stay out of this, but will be reading with interest. I think everyone has existential needs. But what meaning "IS" I believe is different for each type. And NFs are forever questioning "the meaning of life".

I just wanted to say, that I was not implying that other types don't need meaning. It's just that they don't question it or ask about it nearly as much as NFs. The "meaning of life" is as basic to NFs as logic is to NTs.

But, I'm staying out to see an NT discussion on what "meaning" is. I would say don't ask Eileen what SHE means by meaning, ask yourselves. What does it MEAN? What is meaning to you? Answer your own questions. Don't ask us NFs to answer the "what", "why" and "how", because most NFs would happily oblige, but then you wouldn't understand it anyway, because it's so different. (Not being snobby or "better than thou" about this. Just pointing out that from what I have read, the differences on this matter between types is VERY different.)

[Eileen]

I left "meaning" vague on purpose. :) I wanted to see how others might define meaning and go from there. Could be order, could be moral/ethical, could be "whys" in addition to "hows." Could be something I haven't thought of yet.




My search for meaning is quite concerned with "whys," which is something I'm quite ambivalent about intellectually. I often see, after the fact of some event that seemed out of left field, that had x event not occurred, y would not have happened in the same way. I could see this observation of cause and effect not being very important to other people, but it's something I ponder a lot.

Also, when I look back at my past, I will consider a certain event and think to myself, "Why did that happen to me?" and almost certainly the answer has to do with what character or moral value I learned from the event. I tend to regard life as a teacher, and what impact events have on me is very significant.


Another thing is that I think I readily see metaphor in my life. For example, my mother has suffered with mental illness since her twenties; she is mostly stable, but has bouts of psychosis. Here's an excerpt from a journal entry I wrote after reading a woman's memoir about her experience of being the daughter of a schizophrenic woman:



It occurred to me today, in a somewhat self-consciously romantic way, that madness is really very poetic in nature. It's a peculiar beautiful because it's horrible, confusing, enigmatic. Many delusions, I suppose (still self-consciously), can probably be read like metaphors. Perhaps there is not literally someone after you, but your illness is chasing you like a murderous pursuer. Perhaps the DSS is not really going to take your children away, but your guilt and madness separates you from them daily. I don't mean to make insanity at all desirable or lovely, but every so often, I am struck with how profound and deceptively honest it can be. Of course, I don't mean that everything that comes from a mentally ill person's mouth is some higher Truth; more, I think, I am just trying to express that not everything is a lie (I almost want to say 'delusion' here, but I don't believe that... I just don't have the right word at hand...) simply because it isn't literally true.

Sometimes I strangely covet this illness for myself for only a moment. I want to understand it. I do not understand insanity, cannot imagine what it is like to live in this other world. I only understand what it is to live with someone who lives with it.




That's just an example, I guess, of how I look at the world and a "meaning" I've extracted...

[songbird36]

I left "meaning" vague on purpose. :) I wanted to see how others might define meaning and go from there. Could be order, could be moral/ethical, could be "whys" in addition to "hows." Could be something I haven't thought of yet.




My search for meaning is quite concerned with "whys," which is something I'm quite ambivalent about intellectually. I often see, after the fact of some event that seemed out of left field, that had x event not occurred, y would not have happened in the same way. I could see this observation of cause and effect not being very important to other people, but it's something I ponder a lot.

Also, when I look back at my past, I will consider a certain event and think to myself, "Why did that happen to me?" and almost certainly the answer has to do with what character or moral value I learned from the event. I tend to regard life as a teacher, and what impact events have on me is very significant.


Another thing is that I think I readily see metaphor in my life. For example, my mother has suffered with mental illness since her twenties; she is mostly stable, but has bouts of psychosis. Here's an excerpt from a journal entry I wrote after reading a woman's memoir about her experience of being the daughter of a schizophrenic woman:





That's just an example, I guess, of how I look at the world and a "meaning" I've extracted...

OK fair enough. I'm sure I'll have more to say on this topic, but I guess my point was that how I (and others respond) might depend on what is meant by "meaning". Different types of meaning, for example, could be:

(1) Searching for patterns/design in things (Geoff's points);
(2) Searching for patterns/common themes in one's own life;
(3) Searching for explanations for phenomena (what you've referred to above)
(4) The existential question of "why are we here"?

I will answer all of these quite differently.

[songbird36]

By the way I'm a lawyer, and my urge to want to define an issue, and key terms around it, is about as strong as my urge to take my next breath..

[int]

Meaning is something I can't quite describe.

If I start from the bottom I can't quite get to the top.

If I start from the top I can never quite get to the bottom.

I seem to be stuck here in the middle, but by using self-discovery I have been able to build bridges - and I plan to keep building them until I can't build anymore. By "self-discovery" I mean: I go out looking for answers, but always walk away saying "there's got to be a better idea." Eventually I just start picking and choosing the pieces that make sense to me, then try to explain the sum of those pieces to others.

I feel like I'm getting closer to truth when that happens, but there's still something else I'm missing. I haven't waded through all the other bs to figure out what it is I've been missing.

I'm an atheist with a Bible on my nightstand. So I know it's not that, and I'm with you...debating God is now boring for me (it had it's time, and I'm thankful for the people that helped me find my own views so I respect theirs). I'm educated but am left wanting.

I think for me it's not finding meaning, but just finding a better way of looking at "it." "It" being whatever it is I'm looking at. Life included. :mellow:

[Eileen]

By the way I'm a lawyer, and my urge to want to define an issue, and key terms around it, is about as strong as my urge to take my next breath..

Totally understood. I just didn't want to limit the topic to one definition because I suspected that "meaning" has different implications for different types of people.

[songbird36]

Totally understood. I just didn't want to limit the topic to one definition because I suspected that "meaning" has different implications for different types of people.

Absolutely.

I'd like to see all four types explored on this thread, and if there are more types of meaning than those I've enumerated I'd like to see these discussed too!

This is a good topic.

BTW Int, what is your view on God (or are you not willing to commit yourself for fear of a missile attack from others on the forum)?

[Edmond Zedo]

By the way I'm a lawyer, and my urge to want to define an issue, and key terms around it, is about as strong as my urge to take my next breath..
I think "By the way I'm a lawyer" should go in your signature, to save you from Carpal Tunnel issues.

[songbird36]

I think "By the way I'm a lawyer" should go in your signature, to save you from Carpal Tunnel issues.

Or from irritating egomaniacs perhaps...

[int]

BTW Int, what is your view on God (or are you not willing to commit yourself for fear of a missile attack from others on the forum)?
I am an atheist. And I originally joined the forum because I wanted the missle attack. One post I made about a year ago is in the archive...

[songbird36]

I am an atheist. And I originally joined the forum because I wanted the missle attack. One post I made about a year ago is in the archive...

I don't think you'll get a missile attack about atheism!

[avidApathy]

Or from irritating egomaniacs perhaps...

Well that seems like a nice enough segway into the slightly delusional completely self-absorbed verson of meaning for me.

I people-watch all the time. I find meaning in myself by looking for meaning in other's actions. I relate everything i see personally. When i read a book i try to find a character i can relate to in the book, almost subconciously, even if that is the author themselves. I do the same thing when watching a movie or listening to someone elses conversation. Memories serve the same purpose and deserve to be anylized over and over again. Everything i see must be related to myself so i can enhance the knoweldge of who i am.

Now this may sound rather ESF ish or something, but i love systems as much as the next INTP. I see people and the civilizations we make as the most complex system on earth. Thats why we fascinate me so.

Mainly i look for what drives others and in turn myself. Also perception, this facinates me, that one person can see the world entirely diffferent from another solely based on their perception.

The final step in truely finding meaning for me is taking things I have found true in myself, through others or looking into my history and experiences, and then applying these concepts to everyone. This is where i find most meaning, but also where i take the most leaps. I take an action automatically relate it to myself then over time relate it to "people" in general.

Its hard to give percise examples, and seeing how none of my ideas are truely codified, I will explain my meaning through a breif list of situations and activities that consume my mind in a never ending quest for connections: social groups, friends, hate (strong emotions in general), slang, intellect (looking for it in all forms whether creative, spiritual, or analytical, etc..), and mob mentality type actions (like pop culture or riots).

Meaning to me is dynamic. This is just how i feel at this phase in my life and i am quite young so id love to hear how different or similar my concept of meaning is from other intp's.

[nobarcode]

NOT because you're a mod.




....as you already know.

[Eileen]

I don't think you'll get a missile attack about atheism!


That's for damn sure. ;)

[PonderBee]

.... by meaning are you intending to draw out what we find to be most richly significant in our lives ... our deepest truths ... our greatest purpose ... or ... ?

I find meaning in a warm embrace, truth, love, warm summer breeze, in a garter snake coiled around a flower in my garden, in the sound of laughter, a close call on the road, surviving a crisis, sex, tears, death, spotting a fox, a hawk, a dream ... "meaning" is simply too subjective, too infinite to quantify.

sorry

[avidApathy]

I am an atheist. And I originally joined the forum because I wanted the missle attack. One post I made about a year ago is in the archive...

Now if you said you were agnostic...that'd be a horse-of-a-different-color.

[avidApathy]

.... by meaning are you intending to draw out what we find to be most richly significant in our lives ... our deepest truths ... our greatest purpose ... or ... ?

I find meaning in a warm embrace, truth, love, warm summer breeze, in a garter snake coiled around a flower in my garden, in the sound of laughter, a close call on the road, surviving a crisis, sex, tears, death, spotting a fox, a hawk, a dream ... "meaning" is simply too subjective, too infinite to quantify.

sorry

Well just because it is subjective doesnt mean i cannot qualify it on MY level?

[Eileen]

.... by meaning are you intending to draw out what we find to be most richly significant in our lives ... our deepest truths ... our greatest purpose ... or ... ?

I find meaning in a warm embrace, truth, love, warm summer breeze, in a garter snake coiled around a flower in my garden, in the sound of laughter, a close call on the road, surviving a crisis, sex, tears, death, spotting a fox, a hawk, a dream ... "meaning" is simply too subjective, too infinite to quantify.

sorry


Well, your answer was what I was looking for, really (except maybe with a little explanation as to why it is "meaningful"--a subjective term, sure, but I'm asking you about YOU!). I don't expect "meaning" to mean the same thing for everybody, which is why I didn't define it.

People sure do freak out about open-ended assignments! *good natured pokes* Haha! :)

[PonderBee]

"Well just because it is subjective doesnt mean i cannot qualify it on MY level?"

What I wrote and meant was quantify -
what I find meaning in you may well scoff at and vice versa.
I can find meaning in a paper clip if I allow myself to go there.

[avidApathy]

"Well just because it is subjective doesnt mean i cannot qualify it on MY level?"

What I wrote and meant was quantify -
what I find meaning in you may well scoff at and vice versa.
I can find meaning in a paper clip if I allow myself to go there.

sorry missread quantify as qualify. :blush:

The things people find meaning in i doubt will have much to do with type and more to do with experience. For example my great-grandfather gave me a sound box that played a melody, very simple, now long after he's dead i remmember him and find soo much love an meaning in that tune whenever i hear it resembled in a song. BUT I think a pattern of meaning to different types might be found in the Ideas and Concepts different people find meaningful.

[Eileen]

what I find meaning in you may well scoff at and vice versa.



That may be true (I know you weren't talking to me, but I'm responding anyway), but the purpose of the thread was not to draw out and criticize what people find meaningful; it was simply to find out what is significant to different people and why.



It is true that much scoffing happens, though. I find meaning in the ancient stories of Judaism and Christianity, in the Holy Trinity, in the sacraments (especially the Eucharist), and these things are often met with scoffing from intelligent folks (and some unintelligent ones). But these stories and rituals add a depth to my life and my understanding of what it is to be a part of the larger body of humanity.

[songbird36]

[QUOTE=PonderBee
I can find meaning in a paper clip if I allow myself to go there.[/QUOTE]

Did you remember to take your meds today?

[CreativeChaos]

I posted this question in a thread and it was never addressed, and I want to see if anyone will answer the question in this context.



People get really caught up in the question of whether there is/whether it's possible to know whether there is a god, and it's only meaningful to a point, in my opinion. Debating the existence of God is boring to me; I'm interested in what people find meaning in--especially if they're agnostic or atheist, but also if they're theist (it's just that various theisms are already pretty spelled out).

I contend that we all live in a world constructed by myths, and we all perform rituals that perpetuate these myths. I do not think this is bad; I think this is beautiful and fascinating. It's easy to tear down someone else's beliefs if you claim to have none... but what postulates do you stand on? What are YOUR givens? At base, in your opinion and/or experience, what is true, and what impact does that truth have on your life and/or the life of a collective humanity?

*Note: I do not believe that myths are lies, so for the sake of this thread, try not to attatch negative connotations to the word "myth."

I highlighted the word Eileen gave. I thought her question was very easy to answer and gave a quick response. I already know what meaning is to me. I could talk and talk and talk about the subject. Notice the difference in responses. Also, I would love to just see how NTs go about answering this on their own. Other types could "cloud" a pure NT response.

But that's just me and my "sociological", "pyhcological", "type" curiosity.

[songbird36]

I find meaning in making music, writing (and reading) poetry, enjoying nature by getting into the outdoors and soaking up the beauty of the incredible country I live in, I could go on and on (but would get boring I'm sure).

there are so many meaningful things in this wonderful life we're given...

[int]

I highlighted the word Eileen gave. I thought her question was very easy to answer and gave a quick response. I already know what meaning is to me. I could talk and talk and talk about the subject. Notice the difference in responses. Also, I would love to just see how NTs go about answering this on their own. Other types could "cloud" a pure NT response.

But that's just me and my "sociological", "pyhcological", "type" curiosity.
That's actually pretty funny, because originally I had singled out those parts you highlighted and had about a page typed out - but then I analyzed what I wrote, deleted it, and summarized instead. :\

[waxwing]

1. Axiomatic truth may be untrue.
2. If axiomatic truth is untrue then an intense search for meaning/truth must follow. In this search for what is actually, holistically true, the original axiom may not be entirely debunked, but rather expanded upon and allowed to bend, develop, even completely dissipate as necessary.
3. The revised "axiom" must be emergent and evolving, almost spinning as part of a cosmic cycle.
4. If it fails to evolve, then one must return to (1). (Repeat chorus, bridge, modulation, repeat...)

Mythology is not closed unless one chooses to understand it that way. It (life, as fleshed out through a search for truth) is more like an epic poem awaiting revision. It if fails to move or be moved, then it's not worth much, in my opinion.

[Geoff]

Please dont take this the wrong way, but I often feel like I need to go back to philosophy class when I have read one of your posts!

I am afraid to say I find no special 'Meaning' (with a capital M) in anything. There are lots of things I enjoy and treasure... but none of them have that capital M.

-Geoff

[PonderBee]

Hello Songbird ... paperclips can be meaningful if you consider their beautiful simplicity vs. their utilitarian value.
I do realize that you were (perhaps) jesting about the meds - but - I am not on and have no need for meds other than an occasional long cool beverage. The US is way overmedicated.

[songbird36]

Hello Songbird ... paperclips can be meaningful if you consider their beautiful simplicity vs. their utilitarian value.
.

Wow..that's so Zen.

I'm going to have to go and stare at a paperclip for a bit. Please excuse me...

[songbird36]

Please dont take this the wrong way, but I often feel like I need to go back to philosophy class when I have read one of your posts!

I am afraid to say I find no special 'Meaning' (with a capital M) in anything. There are lots of things I enjoy and treasure... but none of them have that capital M.

-Geoff

Blimmin' 'eck and 'ow old are you?

[Dunearhp]

We have no purpose.
There are no deeper truths.
There is no hidden knowledge. It is all in plain sight.

Paperclips have a purpose, we designed them that way.

In the absence of purpose/meaning, I have been forced to assign my own.
i.e.
Within the context of my own sphere of influence, try to shift the perversity of the universe to a minimum.

In assigning my own goals, the most useful question is: What do I really want?

So when I hear someone say "I follow a higher purpose", I interpret it as "I do what I am told".

[Dunearhp]

Wow..that's so Zen.

I'm going to have to go and stare at a paperclip for a bit. Please excuse me...

Ask yourself, "Does the paperclip have the Buddha nature".

No, I am not being sarcastic.

[misutii]

i tend to fall is 'existential' crisi every so often as well. I guess it has to do more with the fact that I'm afraid of learning the meaning of everything because I'm afraid of learning that there is no meaning and once your beliefs falter all you have left is pride..... one can only hope it's enough to survive.

[waxwing]

Lyrics to a song by Pedro the Lion:

(Sorry, can't remember the title,but this is the entire song with the exception of a cool interlude).

Wouldn't it be so wonderful
if everything were meaningless?
But everything is so meaningful,
and most everything turns to shit.

Rejoice,rejoice, rejoice
Rejoice,rejoice,rejoice.

[euterpenc]

Ask yourself, "Does the paperclip have the Buddha nature".

No, I am not being sarcastic.

Koans!

Has anyone else read "The Gateless Gate"? I love Zen lol

[CreativeChaos]

Originally posted by:
The things people find meaning in i doubt will have much to do with type and more to do with experience.

Nope! According to Kiersy, Please Understand Me II, the values of types are quite different. And it is in those values that I believe we find our meaning.

-------------------NFs-------------NTs

Being------------Enthusiastic-------Calm
Trusting---------Intuition ----------Reason
Yearning--------Romance----------Acheivement
Seeking---------Identity-----------Knowledge
Prizing----------Recognition--------Deference
Aspiring---------Sage-------------- Wizard


It is in your values that you find meaning. When you pursue and behave according to your values, you find meaning. And values are very different for different types.

[nBT]

meaning in 6 stages

1 discovery of the self. MBTI largely contributed to that.
2 discovery of others. that is an area, im not confident in this due to severe intorversion and piont 1
3 discovery of god
4 purpose of me
5 purpose of others
6 purpose of god

in my real life im somewhere around 2. in my inner life that would be an occasional 4.

[Dunearhp]

It is in your values that you find meaning. When you pursue and behave according to your values, you find meaning. And values are very different for different types.

It is in my values that I find comfort.
Am I meant to be comfortable?

[Darren]

We have no purpose.
There are no deeper truths.
There is no hidden knowledge. It is all in plain sight.

Paperclips have a purpose, we designed them that way.

In the absence of purpose/meaning, I have been forced to assign my own.
i.e.
Within the context of my own sphere of influence, try to shift the perversity of the universe to a minimum.

In assigning my own goals, the most useful question is: What do I really want?

So when I hear someone say "I follow a higher purpose", I interpret it as "I do what I am told".

IAWTP.

[tragula]

I posted this question in a thread and it was never addressed, and I want to see if anyone will answer the question in this context.

People get really caught up in the question of whether there is/whether it's possible to know whether there is a god, and it's only meaningful to a point, in my opinion. Debating the existence of God is boring to me; I'm interested in what people find meaning in--especially if they're agnostic or atheist, but also if they're theist

I haven't read all the posts. This is just my answer to the original post:

I think it is impossible to separate meaning from spirituality. But I personally choose the third option, which is non-god-based religion. At least not using the traditional definition of God in our culture.

So for me meaning is about experiencing the deeper spiritual connections between ourselves and the world around us. Family, friends, pets, and especially children.

It's possible that some people would contend that this meaning is nothing but hormones surging through our blood. But even if that is true they allow us to experience things that are much greater than ourselves, so they are real.

I also happen to believe that all life is meaningful simply because it has the ability to shape the universe in creative and positive ways. That is why life should always be respected.

I also believe that we can use Art to communicate with people across time, and help them to connect to things that are meaningful to us. So I find meaning in my art.

[Google Monster]

hmmm... i fiddle and tinkle with meaning all the time. I came to the conclusion that the meaning is to follow the best possible path and whatever happens is predetermined. But you should not give up because of that unless giving up with what you were meant to do :)