Liberty Dollar raid

[Lateralus]

How long until bartering is illegal, too?


Federal agents have raided sites in Idaho and Indiana linked to the "Liberty Dollar," a silver coin used by groups that oppose the Federal Reserve System and the federal income tax, a newspaper reported.

FBI agents seized records and dies for casting the coins at three locations Thursday in this north Idaho resort town, and FBI and Secret Service agents also raided the headquarters of the National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve Act & Internal Revenue Code, known as NORFED, in Evansville, Ind.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420ap_id_liberty_dollar_raids.html

[euterpenc]

How long until bartering is illegal, too?



http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420ap_id_liberty_dollar_raids.html

Maybe I didn't catch it, but I don't see why this is a federal offense. They aren't counterfeiting or anything. Isn't this kind of like making monopoly money illegal?

[MacGuffin]

I think 98% of Americans should be forced to repeat high school so they can finally learn about things like the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

[euterpenc]

I think 98% of Americans should be forced to repeat high school so they can finally learn about things like the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Or they could teach it in the first place...

When I was in high school they didn't really emphasize the constitution or bill of rights. Just another lesson to be plugged through. And as such, I didn't remember much of it, and I'm sure my classmates didn't either (probably less than me).

High school isn't about education, it's about indoctrination.

[Kropotkin]

I've been following this news too. There's no information released yet on what basis a US Attorney got a judge to authorize the raid. It was carried out by the FBI, and not the Secret Service, so it's unlikely a counterfeiting type of claim will be pursued.

The Liberty Dollar never quite made sense to me on a few levels, however I do not see what the problem is as long as no claims of legal tender are made.

My main criticism of the LD is that it seems to be based on a sleight of hand because an equivalence that seems, in practice, to be suggested by its denomination. A $20 Liberty Dollar silver token costs around $17(?) FRN, yet might be used for $20 in $US purchasing power. Of course, that's entirely at the discretion of the business accepting the payment, so in the end I've no complaint in principle.

A much better scheme would be to have silver coins of various weights that met certain 3rd-party standards, and could be produced by anyone who met such criteria. That'd be a true store of wealth, free of manipulation by governments.

There's also odd things happening regarding coinage. There's a movement afoot to give the power to decide coining to the Executive Branch, even though it'd violate the Constitution. Doing so however would allow for rapid changes in the coining in the event of hyperinflation.

The nickel is worth 7 cents in metal and the penny about .8 of a cent. We're likely to see coins change in their metal content suddenly, and soon. (Save ALL your nickels!)

With gold and silver relentlessly rising, the Liberty Dollar may be perceived as too much a threat, if the government needs to print massive amounts of money next year to handle potentially catastrophic bankruptcies among international banks, due to the housing bubble popping.

Finally, it's interesting to note that the Fed did their raid just as Norfed (LD makers) were about to ship the Ron Paul LDs!

Interesting times... :ph34r:

[Lateralus]

I believe the FBI was raiding based on charges like fraud.

[outmywindow]

I think 98% of Americans should be forced to repeat high school so they can finally learn about things like the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Thank you.

Hey zeitgeist, you know you could always read it on your own time. Just a thought.

[Domino]

I think 98% of Americans should be forced to repeat high school so they can finally learn about things like the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights.


I've read both, plus all of the personal correspondence between the members of the Constitutional Congress, and the contemporary write-ups in the various papers, and I can see how many people not trained in the law might find the sheer glut of information bewildering. A small refresher course now and then might be useful to the layman.

[bonsai]

I wasn't even aware money like that existed. Couldn't it be used to circumvent government mandated taxes, like income and sales tax?

[Lateralus]

http://www.libertydollar.org/ld/legal/raid.htm

This link has PDF copies of the search warrants and other documents.

[Larkin]

Something is happening here,
Out in Republican survivalist Idaho, people are disenchanted with the Feds.
It is not limited to the Right.

Here in the Berkshires there is a movement of using local currency to counter cash going out and none comming back. Spend local dollars ( with Norman Rockwell's picture on it) on local businesses
http://berkshares.org/localcurrency.htm

[Ferrus]

Isn't this kind of like making monopoly money illegal?
It is illegal in almost all countries of the world for the simple fact that the government wishes to control monetary policy (and indirectly fiscal policy), that any number of homebrew currencies are notorious to instability with regard to hyperinflation (given their often small issues) and speculation, that it is economically and administratively inefficient to have any old fool starting up umpteen instable forms of transaction - whose value, as hitherto alluded to will fluctate much as foreign currencies do, but given their smaller issues with much greater rapidity. Whilst local currencies to have advantages when the main currency of a state is irreparably damaged - note Germany in the early 20's and Argentina more recently - in most cases they are very deleterious indeed. Why, if it were not so, do many African, East European and Asian countries chiefly transact in Dollars, Sterling, Yen and Euros (Montenegro having adopted the last fully)? This is less a matter of 'fraud', rather treason against the state similar in legal morality to spying. Both are deliberately harmful to the state, both patently illegal. If one were to adduce any other asinine concept of 'rights' which granted one the ability to pass sensitive information to hostile nations I'm quite sure it would be laughed at.

[djm]

I do not see it as much different to other currencies such as 'Green shield stamps', 'air miles'or 'supermarket loyalty points' in concept.

The key difference here is that those 'currencies' is that they turn records over to the Inland Revenue so they can monitor your spending patterns. Perhaps this is the problem here. non cooperation with the tax officials.

Local currency is a major threat to a government if it operates better than the official currency (there are examples of some quite inetesting systems that diid this in postr war Austria). It is a major threat to society if it does not operate properly (as is the governments currency).

[stopharian]

Newton would have hanged em in a jiffy.