The USA is a police state

[ApeTheDog]

You cannot go in, or out, without being fingerprinted. Your leaders do with your country whatever they want, and are using it for personal gain. Your media kisses his ass as he does it. More and more freedom is taken from you, with laws labeling more and more people as a danger to homeland security, and more freedom being taken from you all the time. Your police are becoming more and more agressive, and your secret service is torturing people without there being anything done to counter them except people going: "should they do that? Is it actually illegal to do this?". And this cycle will never end, because the enemy will never be defeated. It never existed in the first place.

It used to be fun to bash the US. Now we cannot do that anymore. We just feel sorry for you guys. You must not let this happen!

Oh yeah. I do not know how, either. Just don't vote for those republicans any more, I guess.

[Ashi, K?]

I may be tempted to generally agree with your post, but I have never been fingerprinted upon entering or leaving the US.

Remember, there are still plenty of non-political issues over which to bash the US.

On the other hand you may be an enemy combatant necessitating indefinite detainment.

Over all I am left with little more than a lingering urge to prepend your user title with "PET".

[trapstar]

The EU is a police state too. It isn't even set up to be democratic.
I think europeans are so spiteful when speaking about the US is because the same thing is happening here but at different rates.

Our countries have given up all independence to the undemocratic european superstate. Our different constitutions mean nothing. In that respect we are farther ahead the chain of events than america.

[Archvile]

Yeah, it's sad really. The USA used to be a symbol of freedom, equality, individuality and great life around the world for decades.

But now a small minority of people with narcisstic intentions seized control of the entire nation and are basically driving it against a wall.. :sadbanana:

[ApeTheDog]

Hmm. Interesting. There really isn't much difference between a wonderful "aller menschen werden bruder" utopia, and a "the government must be given leeway and resources to accomplish it's goals, even if that means you have to give up some freedom" police state. I think the latter aims for the former, and uses it as the pipedream to establish itself. And the latter may be the former in disguise.

Interesting. And, yeah - things might be going that way here as well. Is not the difference that the EU bickers about things endlessly, and postpones all decisions until all sides have been considered - that we err in the area of being decisive at the cost of not getting anything done? If there was a president of the EU, a unilateral decision maker, things would be different, I think. As it is, there are a lot of laboured measures coming out of europe, but I do think it's better ran because all things must be reached through concensus.

It's inevitably going to get messy as well, though, once it's better established, I suppose.

[Karl]

Yeah, it's sad really. The USA used to be a symbol of freedom, equality, individuality and great life around the world for decades.


Which decades were those? I'm having trouble finding them.

Although I would disagree that we are a police state. I just don't think it's an appropriate term to describe what's going on.

[Anonymous]

So where should I move to?

[ApeTheDog]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjALf12PAWc&NR=1

This was kind of illuminating to me, and has sort of convinced me moreso that things are indeed following a path that has been walked before. It's the whole "those who cannot learn from history are bound to repeat it" thing.

[ApeTheDog]

So where should I move to?

Out of your parents basement.
Ha ha ha!
Ho ho!

... I still live in a room at my parents house.

[lowtech redneck]

the enemy will never be defeated. It never existed in the first place.


Care to elaborate? I think I'll "make sure they said what you think they said" before commenting.

[ApeTheDog]

Have you ever seen a terrorist? A sleeper cell? They showed up on 9/11, and that's about it, yet america keeps arming itself more and more against these guys. Where are they?

Sure, they exist, but are they really so dangerous as to necesitate all of the measures being taken?

The war of terror is never going to be over, because it's in the interest of those in power to keep the illusion of there being a threat alive - in order to accomplish their goals. Hence why they will never be defeated.

They attacked the USA, a few times. You defend against them. They hit you badly, once. That's it! This is not at war.

And, yeah, ok, they do exist, and have existed, but not in the form as things are being presented now. They are hardly as threatening as those in power would like you to think - but they have no incentive to make you think otherwise. Quite the contrary.

[Archvile]

Which decades were those? I'm having trouble finding them.

Although I would disagree that we are a police state. I just don't think it's an appropriate term to describe what's going on.

Yeah, that comment was bound to stir up controversy. However, those who lived outside the US during the 70s and 80s cannot deny that "Life in the USA" was hailed as the best thing on earth, particulary in eastern european countries and shortly after the collapse of the USSR.
From an American pov. things look a bit different of course, yet I still think America is now closer to a dictatorship than ever before. But this is only my personal opinion which doesn't have to be in accordance with actual facts atm.

.

[Stoned_Rider]

Screw the US... let's all move to Iran.

[ApeTheDog]

I may be tempted to generally agree with your post, but I have never been fingerprinted upon entering or leaving the US.

Remember, there are still plenty of non-political issues over which to bash the US.

On the other hand you may be an enemy combatant necessitating indefinite detainment.

Over all I am left with little more than a lingering urge to prepend your user title with "PET".

Pets-mart?

Apparantly, if you handle pineapples a lot - such as for example you had a job cutting up pineapple, you would not have any fingerprints. There is a kind of acid in them that erases those.

I don't know why I brought that up. It's probably because I'm insane, but... I'll allow it.

[lowtech redneck]

And, yeah, ok, they do exist, and have existed, but not in the form as things are being presented now. They are hardly as threatening as those in power would like you to think - but they have no incentive to make you think otherwise. Quite the contrary.

OK, now your post makes more sense. I agree that the problem is not currently as bad as is often portrayed (at least not in the US, Europe faces a significantly greater threat), though the potential is certainly there (the issue of covert state-sponsorship or WMD's obtained through criminal networks is a genuine concern), be careful not to let skepticism toward previous overreactions lead to an underestimation of the actual threat.

As for the police-state issue, I'm sorry, but you sounding a lot like the people who portray European states as totalitarian due to excessive restrictions on gun ownership or the criminalization of "hate speech". There are some superficial resemblances between the aforementioned policies (as well as certain American policies) and those of fascist and/or totalitarian states, but exaggerating the similarities is simply not a very constructive means of educating people.

[djm]

I have been fingerprinted the last few times I have travelled to the US.

Whilst I think the trends in both the USA and the EU (an organisation I detest) are unwelcome and worrying, I think they are both still a long way from being a police state.

Some of the posters on INTPc live in places that are or have been police states, I suspect they would love the freedom that we have in our nations.

[ApeTheDog]

OK, now your post makes more sense. I agree that the problem is not curreexaggerating the similarities is simply not a very constructive means of educating people.

But underestimating them is a very constructive way of finding yourself in a mess you can't get out of anymore. And once you realise it's gone too far, it has gone too far to change it as well.

Watch that youtube video. So many things which happened in nazi germany (Damn you, godwin!) are happening in the US under the Bush administration. I wasn't hoping to see someone confirm what I was thinking when I watched that youtube thing - it was more an eye-opening thing.

[trapstar]

I have been fingerprinted the last few times I have travelled to the US.

Whilst I think the trends in both the USA and the EU (an organisation I detest) are unwelcome and worrying, I think they are both still a long way from being a police state.

Some of the posters on INTPc live in places that are or have been police states, I suspect they would love the freedom that we have in our nations.

The US is practically a police state. Anyone have the Borat DVD? If you watch the extra scenes you will see when they are questioned by the police for their motives for driving around in a car at night. That is not normal. It shouldn't happen in a normal democracy.
I've seen videos of american activists being driven away from the street by police simply for shooting with a camcorder. Again, not normal.
It shouldn't matter whether you are a redneck conservative or a conspiracy nut, you have the same right to voice your opinion in public places.

The EU is in my opinion too young and inexperienced to actually govern. We won't have to put up with the same shit as americans for a couple of decades. What is worrying though is that the individual countries set up the surveillance required to do so NOW.
As someone mentioned hate speech, I would like to make a parallell to what Naomi Wolf said in the video. Right now, only nazis get arrested for this crime. It's great for us, the general public, since it denies them the platform they so desperately need. It only becomes dangerous when the term hate speech is broadened as to include hate speech against government officials etc.
The fundamental difference in a european police state and an american would be (if the EU chooses this path) is that we won't have a despot in power. It would just be a faceless beauracracy which actually scares me more. How do you fight something that does not have a face?

And for your last paragraph. Are you willing to risk the freedom people all over the world want just because you were to lazy to do anything about it? The Swedish military "couped" a law that will put the entire populations communication under surveillance. Our intelligence service even warns us about the potential risk that this law poses to our security.

Give them your finger and soon your arm will be gone


I'm sorry for grammar- spelling mistakes etc. I tried to write everything down as fast as I could before it slipped out of my mind

[pardo]

The crushing of privacy and freedom is a global trend, it doesn't depend on this or that state.
Even constitutions mean nothing when EVERYONE EVERYWHERE in power is a control freak.
The worst situation is in the UK, seems they're taking suggestions directly from Orwell's "1984" book.
And democracy sucks btw. It's also thanks to democracy that we have this situation now. Democracy = power to the fools, it's failing on every front.
It's time to put the power in the exclusive hands of INTPs ! :D

[pcipronet]

Centralized power inevitably leads to one-stop-shopping for corporate lobbying / bribery. When I first learned of the EU forming, my heart sank as I foresaw the end of an era where small European countries boldly stood up to the bullying/bribing mega-corps. As for US, Ron Paul appears to be our only hope.


>"It's time to put the power in the exclusive hands of INTPs"
Socrates espoused something akin to this at one time... in practice, that didn't turn out so well; especially for him.

[Sojourner]

Regarding fingerprinting: I don't travel a lot, but I did go to Taiwan this past summer, and no fingerprinting. Bit of a confusion regarding visas - I've got dual citizenship - but nothing particularly OMGPOLICESTATE!!!!ish.

[ajblaise]

Your media kisses his ass as he does it.

Our media is still quite liberal-leaning overall I believe, but they did kiss Republican ass right before the Iraq war....if we ever lose our liberal media we're fucked.

[garak]

Our media is still quite liberal-leaning overall I believe, but they did kiss Republican ass right before the Iraq war....if we ever lose our liberal media we're fucked.

The mainstream media is money-leaning.

[ajblaise]

The mainstream media is money-leaning.

Can't be both? Liberals make more money on average...so naturally the media at large will pander to that.

Then you have the people who control most of the media, they tend to be liberal-leaning, which will have an effect to say the least.

Money & liberalism can mix quite well, in case you were implying they don't.

[Limey]

"the west" used to have its eyes on a prize of technology leaps and bounds, hedonist timesavers, efficiency and weapons of mass destruction to maintain the lead.
These days, the zeitgeist does seem to be fear, attack, hysteria and a general Golem-like attitude of protecting the precious.

It makes me cringe whenever I hear terms like "our freedom is under attack" because it's such an oxymoron, the statement itself is precursor to adjusting freedom.

Just for once, it would be nice if history didn't repeat itself. This political bullshit is probably how Rome fell. We even see India, a normally pragmatic nation, copying this bullshit in greedy power struggles.

Meanwhile Europe (close to being considered a super-nation) has this general cancer like apathy and nanny state approach to almost every silly little law and spiteful rule that defeats natural selection and capitalism.

More human nature than any particular nations' fault.

[kuranes]

Reference to this thread..

http://forums.intpcentral.com/showthread.php?t=26016

[bclark619g]

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams


IMO, the majority of Americans tend to ignore the plaintive cries of the media and people claiming our government is a police state. We have more freedom than any other country and we know it.

[booyalab]

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams


IMO, the majority of Americans tend to ignore the plaintive cries of the media and people claiming our government is a police state. We have more freedom than any other country and we know it.

Great quote! There are a few other countries with less economic regulation, but we still seem to be allowed the most freedom of expression. Books may be banned from schools, but they're not banned from the entire country like, say, the UK.


Ape, if you're going to continue on with the US bashing would you consider cracking open a history book, or at the very least a newspaper? No, don't say anything yet. Just think about it.

[Oso Mocoso]

Yeah ... if the USA is a police state, it's a really ineffective one. I was hiking out around Lake Ontario, and I ended up walking on to a road from the woods. A U.S. border agent spotted me and asked me for my passport. I did not have one with me. I showed her my California-issued driver's license (note: issued about 2000 miles away from where I was, and not proof that I am a citizen). She gave me directions about where to hike so that I would be back securely on the U.S. side of the border.

I have a feeling if I were in a real police state like East Germany, this conversation would have gone differently.

--Oso

[Zephyrus055]

I can't say that the US is a police state. We don't have constant monitoring and check ups, curfews (except for under age kids), ruthless coercion and the absence of the rule of law, and bureaucrats or police that order us around. In truth, we are free to move where we please, the police can not enter our homes just because they feel like it, and they aren't patrolling the streets everywhere (they have some patrols, but are primarily responsive).

However, we do have a government that has an expanding bureaucracy and powers. Search and seizure is easier (mainly if you are the select few known as terrorists), and so is databasing you (High Schools must give the government your personal info, unless your parents specifically state otherwise). Our airports are also tighter. I think this is all worrying, but it does not make us a police state. We are still relatively free to go about our business without an officer of the law bothering us, unless they have probable cause or witness you committing a crime. The only people right now who really have to worry about the government are people who are suspected terrorists, which though may have a vague definition doesn't apply to the average citizen.

[rek]

We're not a police state yet, but we're definitely moving that direction. We certainly aren't a free state anymore.

[Stoned_Rider]

I can't say that the US is a police state. We don't have constant monitoring and check ups, curfews (except for under age kids), ruthless coercion and the absence of the rule of law, and bureaucrats or police that order us around. In truth, we are free to move where we please, the police can not enter our homes just because they feel like it, and they aren't patrolling the streets everywhere (they have some patrols, but are primarily responsive).

However, we do have a government that has an expanding bureaucracy and powers. Search and seizure is easier (mainly if you are the select few known as terrorists), and so is databasing you (High Schools must give the government your personal info, unless your parents specifically state otherwise). Our airports are also tighter. I think this is all worrying, but it does not make us a police state. We are still relatively free to go about our business without an officer of the law bothering us, unless they have probable cause or witness you committing a crime. The only people right now who really have to worry about the government are people who are suspected terrorists, which though may have a vague definition doesn't apply to the average citizen.
For real. One more thing, the Bush administration isn't staying around forever ffs. It's gonna change, and no matter what you say about rigged elections and corruption, I believe people in the US still have the power to change things around (at the very least, compared to other nations). See how awesome that is? Now, unless the perceived damage Bush has done is totally beyond repair, which I really don't think is the case, I don't see why people should be so pessimistic about the future.

People living in proper police states usually have to endure their current regime for as long as they live, with no power whatsoever to change it. They are usually stripped of the most basic of freedoms that people in the west (understandably) take for granted. As bad as the Bush administration is perceived to be, I don't think the average American is currently forced to make any radical alterations to their lifestyles or how they go about their usual stuff, because they're still free to do whatever they please. Think about it. I know it sounds so fucking cliche but, try to be grateful for what you have.

[Henry]

I agree and think that's exactly the point Wolf was making in her lecture. You don't suddenly wake up in a police state one day. It's gradual.

As soon as the harrumphing after 9/11 started, I remember a friend sending me this quote and thinking, yep, here we go again:

Hermann Goering: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.

Gustave Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.

Hermann Goering: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.

[thelastone]

So getting on to the fixing it:

2 routes: Violent and nonviolent. Violence is like the One Ring. To wield it, you have to become it. That way is out.

So nonviolence. People have been trained not to listen to anyone anymore. So no go. Everybody needs to simultaneously learn to be honest with themselves and others and we need a New Renaissance. Mass enlightenment is our only real way out.

Nobody thinks it can happen, but I do. The internet is the catalyst. Connecting people is the only way to blaze a trail to a New Renaissance that I can think of. People just need to come to the party. Get your relatives computers and keep working on yourself.

If we were to use everyone's ability to fight ignorance as effectively as possible, everyone would fight their own ignorance because it is that that they are in a position to fix best.

Food for thought. Or maybe poop. U pick.

[mattie]

Youtube - Miami police shot protester, then laugh about it.

[Nighthawk]

I won't even get into the cops waiting outside of establishments to slam you with a DUI for having a beer or two ... or public intoxication if you don't happen to be the driver. Also funny how you're old enough to go die in some undeclared war at age 17, but cannot drink until you're 21. Other countries, namely one's I have visited in Europe, seem more elightened about the entire situation. The USA is quite draconian about inflicting it's moral values upon others ... and the moral (read their particular morals) SJs are still about 50% of the population.

As an aside, in Amerika, you get all the justice that you can afford to buy with your money. Much of the DUI process can be bought off if you have enough money. Once again, it is the poor and disadvantaged who pay the price in prison time or bankruptcy. I also believe the USA ranks pretty high in the global community for number of people imprisoned. I'm not sure of the actual numbers ... perhaps somebody more knowledgeable can enlighten us.

[charred_heart]

something I've noticed in the middle east, once laws giving the government more power are passed, they are never revised or removed.

You should never be complacent, even in the U.S

[Nighthawk]

something I've noticed in the middle east, once laws giving the government more power are passed, they are never revised or removed.

You should never be complacent, even in the U.S

It's pretty much the same here ... with a few execptions. Sort of like taxes ... they are never reduced. Even when they "are" ... there are still hidden fees that recoup what they gave back.

[charred_heart]

It's pretty much the same here ... with a few execptions. Sort of like taxes ... they are never reduced. Even when they "are" ... there are still hidden fees that recoup what they gave back.
taxes are one thing, secret prisons are another :ph34r:

[Nighthawk]

taxes are one thing, secret prisons are another :ph34r:

Point granted ... things aren't that bad here yet. All our prisons are still in public view ... as far as I know. Then again, if they are secret, I wouldn't know about them ;)

[mattie.]

There are a couple hundred secluded prisons throughout the country all prepared and ready to go during any catastrophe. FEMA concentration camps with railways, airplane runways, communication towers, barbed wires turned inward to prevent escape. At many of the facilities there are fema personnel and trucks on guard presently. There are even red and blue markings on the entrance at some facilities to denote where to separate people. Red for the high priority as there are furnaces built. If martial law is in effect, the foreign that are already on U.S. soil will handle it as much of the U.S. military and national guard is overseas.

[MongolianFireOil]

The world is a police state. At least I have my guns. Wish I had a tank.
Freeman had it right except no one would take their checks.

[Nighthawk]

There are a couple hundred secluded prisons throughout the country all prepared and ready to go during any catastrophe. FEMA concentration camps with railways, airplane runways, communication towers, barbed wires turned inward to prevent escape. At many of the facilities there are fema personnel and trucks on guard presently. There are even red and blue markings on the entrance at some facilities to denote where to separate people. Red for the high priority as there are furnaces built. If martial law is in effect, the foreign that are already on U.S. soil will handle it as much of the U.S. military and national guard is overseas.

I've read about those from time to time. Never anything substantial however ... just enough to make me wonder what is really going on.

[C.J.Woolf]

As an aside, in Amerika, you get all the justice that you can afford to buy with your money. Much of the DUI process can be bought off if you have enough money. Once again, it is the poor and disadvantaged who pay the price in prison time or bankruptcy.
Same ol' same ol':


Hangman, hangman, hold it a little while,
Think I see my friends coming, Riding a many mile.
Friends, did you get some silver?
Did you get a little gold?
What did you bring me, my dear friends, To keep me from the Gallows Pole?

[IgG]

"The situation in the US seems even more severe than what happened in Europe, and certainly the onset is more sudden. According to The Independent, millions of honey bees are abandoning their hives and flying off to die, leaving beekeepers facing ruin and US agriculture under threat."

"Across the country, from the Atlantic coast to the Pacific, honey bee colonies have started to die off, abruptly and decisively. Millions of bees are abandoning their hives and flying off to die (they cannot survive as a colony without the queen, who is always left behind).
Some beekeepers, especially those with big portable apiaries, or bee farms, which are used for large-scale pollination of fruit and vegetable crops, are facing commercial ruin - and there is a growing threat that America's agriculture may be struck a mortal blow by the loss of the pollinators. Yet scientists investigating the problem have no idea what is causing it."


"On one of my weekly news grabs, I linked an article on the mysterious die-off of honey bees, and a reader commented, suggesting that emissions of GWEN, the Ground Wave Emergency Network, might be to blame. Here is what he had to say: "

"After reading several articles on the disappearance of the honeybee, the thought occurred that this appears to be happening only in the US. A Google search turned up nothing on this phenomenon in any other country, including Canada and Mexico.
Why only the US? Also, why are nonsensical excuses being offered up by the pseudo-scientific community for the demise of the bee?"

"Researchers have dubbed the syndrome the "colony collapse disorder." They say the bees presumably are dying in the fields, perhaps becoming exhausted or disoriented and eventually dying from exposure to the cold. Or, it could just be that the bees are stressed out. Give me a break!" "

"Tired bees? Dying from weather exposure? Stressed out bees? Disoriented?"





"Just imagine a tired bee for a moment. When?s the last time you saw a tired bee?"

"Dying from weather exposure? Weather cold enough to kill bees in their hives would also decimate other insect populations. No report on that, huh?"

"Stressed out bees? What, all of a sudden bees get stressed out? What about bees in other countries? They don?t seem to be having a problem at all."

"Disoriented bees? Ah, well this is a possibility. But what would make them disoriented? Perhaps it is the 250 HZ signals being pumped out of GWEN stations all over America. This signal makes people angry, so that they support the administrations idea of going after Iran and violence in general. It works great for mass manipulation of opinion. Unfortunately, the same signal will induce a misdirection of up to 10 degrees in the navigation ability of the honeybee. They go away from the hive and never come back because they can no longer find it. That?s why it?s only happening in the US."

"Perhaps the most puzzling aspect of this is that US media has never ventured to question why it is only happening here. Somebody must have told them to clam up on this issue or the current crop of US reporters got their degrees in journalism out of a Cracker Jack box."

"Now what the hell are GWEN stations, you might want to ask, and what could they have to do with the catastrophic die-off of honey bees..."


GWEN, Microwave Arrays and Mobile Phone Radiation


"GWEN, the Ground Wave Emergency Network, is a military communications network, consisting of some 300 transmitters dotting the whole of the continental United States. Each tower is 300-500 feet high. The stations are from 200 to 250 miles apart, so that a signal can go from coast to coast from one station to another. The official purpose is "to ensure adequate communication between command authorities and land-based strategic nuclear forces in the event of a nuclear attack on the United States mainland." But others say a hidden use of the system may be "electromagnetic mind-altering technology" by the use of ELF or Extremely Low Frequency waves."

"According to a 1982 Air Force review of biotechnology, ELF has a number of potential military uses, including "dealing with terrorist groups, crowd control, controlling breaches of security at military installations, and antipersonnel techniques in tactical warfare." The same report states:"

"Electromagnetic systems would be used to produce mild to severe physiological disruption or perceptual distortion or disorientation. They are silent, and counter-measures to them may be difficult to develop."
Robert O. Becker, M.D., in his book "Crosscurrents: The Perils of Electropollution" said:"

"GWEN is a superb system, in combination with cyclotron resonance, for producing behavioral alterations in the civilian population. The average strength of the steady geomagnetic field varies from place to place across the United States. Therefore, if one wished to resonate a specific ion in living things in a specific locality, one would require a specific frequency for that location. The spacing of GWEN transmitters 200 miles apart across the United States would allow such specific frequencies to be 'tailored' to the geomagnetic-field strength in each GWEN area."
The bees seem to be playing the role that canary birds had in the mines, warning us of impending desaster. Are these insects, by their unprecedented behavior of flying off without returning to their hives, showing that something insidious is going on?"

"According to a message from Paul Doyon, electromagnetic waves may well have the capacity of disorienting not only bees but a number of flying creatures. Here is a specific instance involving bees he quotes:"

"At Cornell Univ. honeybees in a hive relocated into a new building became disoriented. After extensive research ruled out other causes, someone noticed the hive was next to the building's electric transformer. The bees were confused by 60 hz magnetism strong enough to interfere with homing and communication to gather nectar and pollen."

"In Germany, a study of honeybees irradiated with DECT mobile phone base station radiation found that only few of the irradiated bees returned to the hive, and that they required more time to return than the non irradiated bees. Also, the weight of the honeycombs of the irradiated bees was found to be smaller than those in the hives of non irradiated bees. (Stever H, Kuhn J, Otten C, Wunder B, Harst W. Verhaltensaenderung unter elektromagnetischer Exposition. Pilotstudie. Institut fuer Mathematik. Arbeitsgruppe Bildungsinformatik. Universitaet Koblenz-Landau; 2005."

[Thor]

There are a couple hundred secluded prisons throughout the country all prepared and ready to go during any catastrophe. FEMA concentration camps with railways, airplane runways, communication towers, barbed wires turned inward to prevent escape. At many of the facilities there are fema personnel and trucks on guard presently. There are even red and blue markings on the entrance at some facilities to denote where to separate people. Red for the high priority as there are furnaces built. If martial law is in effect, the foreign that are already on U.S. soil will handle it as much of the U.S. military and national guard is overseas.

I've read that too.

quoted from the various articles on the matter;

Currently, the largest of these facilities is just outside of Fairbanks, Alaska. The Alaskan facility is a massive mental health facility and can hold approximately 2 million people.

SO the largest is supposed to be right in my front yard. The military bases listed (Ft Wainwright and Eielson AFB) are more or less accessible by the public, there are elevated residential and recreational locations on the surrounding hills and the airspace is open to civilian overflight. It's all readily observable. No facility suitable for the stated purpose exists at this location, nor does the required infrastructure to transport, feed, house, etc, the TWO MILLION or so people as was stated in the article, Hell, when --8,000-- people show up orderly and voluntarily for the airshow, the AFB shows strain...

The article also states that this is a huge "Mental Health Facility..." Well, Um... WTF? There's no mental facility, the ONLY thing they can be referring to is a statewide collection of largely undeveloped trust -land- as part of the "Alaska Mental Health Trust." The lands consist of trees, boggy ground and a few rocks... most of which you wouldn't EVER want to put a temporary wooden outhouse on let alone a real building.

http://www.mhtrustland.org/

It's mainly a gas/mineral/resource rights arrangement where any mining, drilling, logging or private use results in a royalty payment to a fund. I'd need to do some more research to learn how the trust actually works, but it's clearly not what the concentration camp claim asserts or implies.

Would I put it past our government to have discussed such a plan, no, not at all. We're talking about the same government that performed the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment. But the facility clearly asserted to be here is definitely not here.

[Latte]

That a person criticizes something does not mean he endorses whatever one might perceive as it's dichotomy or something which one might assume the person perceives as being better at what the criticized is at what the person criticized it for allegedly falsely claiming to be.

Twisted sentence. But seriously, those assumptions sometimes result in the making of arguments aimed at views that are non-existing in that persons interpretation of reality.

On the other side, where the view does exist in the person's interpretation of reality is one based on the dichotomy of good and bad.

I must clearly state that there is perfect, and there are lesser of evils. And no current large human community is perfect.

One might find this as being off-topic. But wherever there is discussion, philosophy is relevant.

Speaking with logic based on false dichotomies in a discussion is like cheating at chess, and not knowing it.

When both parties cheat without knowing it, they will rarely agree on what the chessboard should look like after they have made their move.

[monocyc]

Youtube - Chemtrail proof German Military Exposed

If anyone has a 1 million candlelight power spotlight, go out at night and place it on the ground shining upwards and see if it creates a 20 feet high lightsaber as it illuminates all the tiny metallic nanoparticles. All the metallic nanoparticles suspended in air causing global warming in the last few years hence the need to have Al Gore come on stage.

[Limey]

A Million Candlewatt spotlight will make a helluva lot more than a 25 foot beam. I was driving into Carlisle, PA a few years ago and couldn't find my group - the shone it up into the air and waved it around and I saw it from 10 miles away.
The nanoparticles in my ass were tingling.

[1...]

INTJ closed minded certitude indisputable, no doubt.

[Limey]

This thread is experiencing noob overload - are you tinfoil conspiracy freaks coming over from another forum perchance?

[Latte]

When the enemy is a not completely concrete concept and actions are done that creates hatred, fear and despair amongst others, you have yourself an eternal enemy, forever the ranks of the enemy will be regenerated by people in hated and despair.


It's like when you come to that one boss in that video game that is invulnerable to ice and gets healed by ice-attacks, but you still keep on doing both icebolts and lighting bolts.

It isn't in your best interest unless there is some reason to keep it's aggro and still not finish it off.