Why are n00bs so annoying?

[Hustler]

Maybe I'm just increasingly cantankerous in my old age, but wtf is with the overwhelming worthlessness of n00bs these days?

[helium]

You alluded to the correct answer(s) in your post and in your poll, but a single poll option besides "other" didn't cover it. I'll clarify. You long have been cantankerous (not merely at your present age). Most people have been stupid (not merely have become more so). Half of them, while having n00b-like infatuation of MBTI theory, have probably not taken the MBTI (not merely have misunderstood MBTI or have failed to be INTP). The rehashing of topics is irrelevant, I think; I'm certain it happened before you joined (I know I noticed the behavior on other lists long before I joined here; your 3 year perspective here just highlights the phenomenon for you).

Another poll option would help some voters clarify another source for your annoyance without having to type it out as a posted response. Specifically, your rush to judge certain INTPs as non-INTPs contributes to your annoyance with what you perceive to be n00bish misunderstanding of MBTI. Some might go as far as suggesting that your own mistyping of a small number of INTPs here is n00bish, but I think it's just your lack of information about said INTPs that leads you to your false conclusions.

Glad I could help.

[Madrigal]

LOL

I tried to bring this up already (http://forums.intpcentral.com/showthread.php?t=26252) without actually attacking the whole forum, you'll notice that the thread has very little replies too. And it was in the 2006 forum at that, so the only ones excluded were the 2007ers.

My theory is simply that the 2007ers are really the ones keeping the forum going nowadays. And the older posters are posting much less because they're just bored or naturally disinclined towards being a part of the changing forum culture. The environment is more fast-paced. You can barely keep up with the boring threads not to mention the controversial ones. One day passes and the most mediocre thread has 50 replies already. How are you supposed to keep up? There's a new introduction thread every half hour. Everyone knows each other and I dunno who the hell everyone is. Not until they get 3000 posts anyway.

The problem is not that the n00bs are more worthless but that the discussion is run by n00bs, with all of the cons that such a phenomenon will imply (stereotypical view of MBTI, posting way too much, and generally stumbling around in the dark trying to feel their way around the place in n00b-like fashion). n00bs are okay but better in moderation. That's not the way it is anymore. We've got a veritable dynamic, amorphous n00blesque culture virtually taking over the forum.

So the forum is noisier. It's like you were used to going to your favorite coffee house and peacefully reading the paper or having a fun chat with the waitress you've known for ages, when suddenly you walk in one day and it's full of younger people sitting in large groups and shouting above other people's voices and throwing breadrolls across the room at each other. It's not the same coffee house anymore. Sure it's successful, but some of its old clients will want to take their business elsewhere. Or just drink their coffee at home.

I was thinking INTPc should introduce a post-per-day limit to cut down on the noise. Drastically.

[helium]

LOL

Vote already. :P

[Madrigal]

Vote already. :P

I justify it first. :devil:

[nottaprettygal]

I would say that it's because the forum has already achieved its purpose for the older folks, and we just stay around for whatever reason (obligation, like of certain members, wasting time).

We're done seeking whatever it is we sought when we joined the forum . . . at least I am. The n00bs are just beginning this task and are only worthless because we know all of the answers to their mundane questions.

[Madrigal]

*cough* (http://forums.intpcentral.com/showpost.php?p=775098&postcount=1)

[C.J.Woolf]

Everyone knows each other and I dunno who the hell everyone is. Not until they get 3000 posts anyway.
Your entire post is good but this sentence really grabbed me. We multi-K posters are the Elves of this INTPc Middle-Earth. We stand still as the stream of time rushes around us. Hell, it seems that the same topics -- and noobs, under different nicks -- step out of the stream, portage back upstream of us, and get back in to give us another dose of deja vu!*

Don't forget Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is crap. We're here -- and have always been here -- for the 10% that is good. There are still good threads and good noobs. I think time and accumulated impressions make the crap harder to ignore, that's all.








*I love to torture metaphors. Sick, isn't it? ;)

[helium]

*cough* (http://forums.intpcentral.com/showpost.php?p=775098&postcount=1)

You don't have the vaccine? ;)



Don't forget Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is crap. We're here -- and have always been here -- for the 10% that is good. There are still good threads and good noobs. I think time and accumulated impressions make the crap harder to ignore, that's all.

Amen.


*I love to torture metaphors. Sick, isn't it? ;)

:sadbanana:

[Hustler]

Yeah, I meant to make it a checkbox poll, but without my adminly powers, I can't edit polls, and I was too lazy to make an entire new post/poll to replace this one. Even with adminly powers, it's kind of a pain in the ass to edit a poll from non-checkbox to checkbox. But this whole poll mishap just makes me hate n00bs anymore.

[helium]

But this whole poll mishap just makes me hate n00bs anymore.

:lol:. Truly. No, it wasn't bad.

[Rajah]

All of you, far more eloquent than me. I hardly ever get beyond, "FFS, this fucking sucks."

[bclark619g]

My recommendation is an INTP Central Member Qualification Program. This program would require prospective members to demonstrate a certain level of proficiency in various areas, including, but not limited to the following:

Knowledge of the Classics subforum
Basic understanding of personality/character typing systems, with MBTI and Enneagram being mandatory
Define circular argument and provide an example
Demonstrate ability to correctly post a picture of self looking hot, for a minimum of three times per week for two weeks
Demonstrate knowledge of forum history and cultural challenges for INTPs through the passing of a written exam containing only essay questions


Perhaps the essay test responses for each new member should be posted for grading by members, who joined at least two calendar years before the new members application, have some arbitrary number of posts or agree with Madrigal's political views, or by anyone who has ever served as a moderator or admin at INTPc.

Of course this is a brief overview and is subject to further revision, but it is a workable solution.

[Hustler]

My recommendation is an INTP Central Member Qualification Program. This program would require prospective members to demonstrate a certain level of proficiency in various areas, including, but not limited to the following:

Knowledge of the Classics subforum
Basic understanding of personality/character typing systems, with MBTI and Enneagram being mandatory
Define circular argument and provide an example
Demonstrate ability to correctly post a picture of self looking hot, for a minimum of three times per week for two weeks
Demonstrate knowledge of forum history and cultural challenges for INTPs through the passing of a written exam containing only essay questions


Perhaps the essay test responses for each new member should be posted for grading by members, who joined at least two calendar years before the new members application, have some arbitrary number of posts or agree with Madrigal's political views, or by anyone who has ever served as a moderator or admin at INTPc.

Of course this is a brief overview and is subject to further revision, but it is a workable solution.
Failure to adhere to all of these standards before spewing nonsensical, redundant posts all over the forum shall result in the subject being sentenced to reading the entirety of Seawolf's blog thread... twice. Survivors may then have a second chance at forum participation.

[SensEye]

We're done seeking whatever it is we sought when we joined the forum . . . at least I am. Was that a husband?

[nottaprettygal]

Was that a husband?

Ha. No. I certainly would have never dreamed of finding that.

To be serious though, I suppose I came here to be with people that I thought understood me because I didn't have that in my real life. And now that I've found a person who has the same odd thoughts and quirks that I do, there's just no need for the forum anymore. Having the real life interaction is great. . . especially the sex bit.

It's still a great procrastination tool and good for a laugh or two, but its purpose has totally changed, and I suspect other members feel the same way.

[cjs55]

Why are n00bs so annoying? Because they're n00bs.

There are some newbies who can start posting and be reasonably interesting right away. They are quality.

But many people are just plain n00bs. It's just as much a personality as it is a lack of willingness to integrate with the forum zeitgeist.

[C.J.Woolf]

To be serious though, I suppose I came here to be with people that I thought understood me because I didn't have that in my real life. And now that I've found a person who has the same odd thoughts and quirks that I do, there's just no need for the forum anymore. Having the real life interaction is great. . . especially the sex bit.
When I came here I already had a partner who understood me, but it's been fun meeting others. I guess I'm greedy.

[kwis]

Ive rarely check the forums nowadays but when I do I just see the exact same stuff as when I left. The newbs should be left alone and mostly uncriticized though because I think the recurring posts are helpful to them.

[Hustler]

To be serious though, I suppose I came here to be with people that I thought understood me because I didn't have that in my real life. And now that I've found a person who has the same odd thoughts and quirks that I do, there's just no need for the forum anymore. Having the real life interaction is great. . . especially the sex bit handjobs.

Fixed.

[Avengardh]

No, I still don't know who everyone is, but I just don't care enough about the n00bs.

I voted for something I didn't much care for because I didn't feel like explaining :K.

[s0978]

So the forum is noisier. It's like you were used to going to your favorite coffee house and peacefully reading the paper or having a fun chat with the waitress you've known for ages, when suddenly you walk in one day and it's full of younger people sitting in large groups and shouting above other people's voices and throwing breadrolls across the room at each other. It's not the same coffee house anymore. Sure it's successful, but some of its old clients will want to take their business elsewhere. Or just drink their coffee at home.

I was thinking INTPc should introduce a post-per-day limit to cut down on the noise. Drastically.

Interesting. Could you perhaps speak to how the din of the noobs changes the quality of your participation here?

[Madrigal]

Interesting. Could you perhaps speak to how the din of the noobs changes the quality of your participation here?

My participation here has been a lot more superficial for a long time now. Partly because of recurring topics (not wanting to repeat myself), partly because I'm busier now that I haven't got an office job anymore (less time to kill) and lastly because the faster pace doesn't encourage me to reflect on topics anymore.

Even if there's an interesting thread to post in, I have to find the time to read a larger number of previous posts, and then actually keep up with the ones that follow. This is too much to ask - it goes too fast. I've become a professional thread-quitter. There are several threads I thought were interesting but didn't post in because I thought it would be disrespectful to just jump in without reading everything on them first. I do that sometimes and it doesn't feel right. Even if I skipped a few posters, it would still be too much work. This results in more one-liners and less thoughtful on-topic discussion. Not that I've given up on thoughtful posts entirely, they're just more rare.

I see this is a lot in older members though.

[booyalab]

I like the n00bs. They're precious gifts from god.

[s0978]

My participation here has been a lot more superficial for a long time now. Partly because of recurring topics (not wanting to repeat myself), partly because I'm busier now that I haven't got an office job anymore (less time to kill) and lastly because the faster pace doesn't encourage me to reflect on topics anymore.

Even if there's an interesting thread to post in, I have to find the time to read a larger number of previous posts, and then actually keep up with the ones that follow. This is too much to ask - it goes too fast. I've become a professional thread-quitter. There are several threads I thought were interesting but didn't post in because I thought it would be disrespectful to just jump in without reading everything on them first. I do that sometimes and it doesn't feel right. Even if I skipped a few posters, it would still be too much work. This results in more one-liners and less thoughtful on-topic discussion. Not that I've given up on thoughtful posts entirely, they're just more rare.

I see this is a lot in older members though.
Same for me. I actually mind the clamor less than I used to since I spend less time here nowadays, and I've always used the forum more like a message board than like group chat- but the threads are becoming less and less coherent/ engaging as more sign up. Not sure how to address- limiting posts per day seems sort of drastic. Ironically this very sub grew out of attempting to address related issues, but it hasn't been used so often.

[Madrigal]

Ironically this very sub grew out of attempting to address related issues, but it hasn't been used so often.

I think this sub was a defensive tactic. Sorta like a "retreat in order" kinda thing for the aging generations, hehe. It isn't offensive in the sense that it doesn't attempt to mold the forum as a whole according to a certain standard. Maybe that's just realistic, I'm not criticizing it (I don't have any new ideas).

I think the failure of these subs (for now, though I wouldn't delete them either) is due to the fact that the older generations won't stick around as much while the board changes. Discussion in here doesn't reflect the old pace any better than the current Central does. People leave or their participation declines; these subs attempt to create an illusion of continuity. Like a permanent High school reunion you can visit whenever you want - you won't find the same interaction there, and some people won't even show up.

[Madrigal]

Not sure how to address- limiting posts per day seems sort of drastic.

Maybe we can try the limiting posts per day only on weekdays? :D Or we can limit posts by subs; all subs except Introductions, Feedback, the Local Pub, Blogs, Personal threads, Playground and Purgatory.

Post-rating seems like an idea too. You can even combine post-rating and post-limiting: you get an extra post allowance if you have a high post-rating. the political implications of that are deep though (pressure to please people, etc.).

Whatever you do, you can always change it if it doesn't work. Just like these subs. I love how experimental they are. Even if you don't get the desired result, you learn something about the forum dynamics, and that makes it worth it. Plus, isn't admin work boring? Manipulating forum society like a lab experiment is probably the only fun thing about it. :ph34r:

[Hustler]

Maybe we can try the limiting posts per day only on weekdays? :D Or we can limit posts by subs; all subs except Introductions, Feedback, the Local Pub, Blogs, Personal threads, Playground and Purgatory.

Better still would be a Hustler subforum, visible to all, where I decide who gets to post and who doesn't.

[Madrigal]

Better still would be a Hustler subforum, visible to all, where I decide who gets to post and who doesn't.

Maybe you should start a poll.

[LongSilence]

n00bs beware, Hustler is on your case and you will fail like the non-intps before you.

[MacGuffin]

Post harder, I'm INTP.

[Limey]

A good 20% of n00bs coming in the virtual door aren't INTP, I'm more fucking INTP than some of them.
Unless INTPs in this latest generation of mascara wearing fucking emo kids have skewed the reasonable amount of cognitive prejudice that could be exercised in exhibiting standard traits and reactions.

Even attention whoring I can understand if people are simply exercising an alter ego that they wouldn't in real life.

However, I don't think it would be too hard to have a test, similar to MeanLittleChimp's very nice looking Type sorter as some sort of PHP plugin to the signon process. There are plenty of freelance coders that could duct tape the two together for less than a pony. It would be nice if it were some sort of database parse-able test result, or "wings" instead of a user field entry.

[s0978]

Maybe we can try the limiting posts per day only on weekdays? :D Or we can limit posts by subs; all subs except Introductions, Feedback, the Local Pub, Blogs, Personal threads, Playground and Purgatory.

Post-rating seems like an idea too. You can even combine post-rating and post-limiting: you get an extra post allowance if you have a high post-rating. the political implications of that are deep though (pressure to please people, etc.).ooh, sounds very drastic.


Manipulating forum society like a lab experiment is probably the only fun thing about it. :ph34r::ph34r:


A good 20% of n00bs coming in the virtual door aren't INTP,I like the way you're thinking, INTJ.

[Limey]

I like the way you're thinking, INTJ.


Right, but I'm talking about the ones that have it displayed on their postbit.

[ApeTheDog]

Because they are. It's like someone who shows up as a guest, and you're hospitable towards them. Only, they never go away, start to live at your house, start to call it theirs and then redecorate it in abysmal colors. It's bound to be frustrating.

Only, it isn't really our house either, is it?

[Limey]

I happen to like shag pile as long as it's vacuumed daily.